Simple programming

[rarebeast]

Hello everyone,

I am trying to learn a small bit of simple programming in my spare time, any suggestions...thanks in advance! :)

[HURST]

Any particular language?

Process or Object oriented?

There are a lot of good tutorials if you google around.

My suggestion would be:
Before you try learning programming, learn how to follow and build algorithms. Also learn boolean logic.

Once you know that, programing gets VERY simple, just matter of sintaxis for each language.

[Kerodo]

{QUOTE-> Hello everyone,

I am trying to learn a small bit of simple programming in my spare time, any suggestions...thanks in advance! :) <-QUOTE}
Microsoft has the Visual Studio Express, which is completely free, with Visual Basic, Visual C, and others... plus I think there are tutorials and online help for it also. Might be a good way to get introduced to it all...

http://www.microsoft.com/express/

[Meriadoc]

Hi rarebeast, over the years I've been a programmer amoungst other jobs in the industry and my first love is assembly, but maybe the best suggestion is above in being introduced to programming.
There's a nice sticky over at ubuntu forums (http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=832449), and masses of on-line tutorials (http://www.programmingtutorials.com/default.aspx). I'd recommend Python or C based language. Python is simple, a beginners and experienced users language, multi platform, simple syntax with some powerful features.

[N1ckR]

Depeneds what you want to learn.

IMHO you are best picking a good book and going with whatever language is chosen, to learn the basics of programming.

Then once you get a grasp of basic things like types, functions, algorithms, piointers, Object Oriented Programming, compiling, parsing etc, pick a language to write something useful with (which may be the same or different).

After you pick the basics up in one language, its well worth spending a little time how to do things in different languages.

IMHO Basic and Python are great for writing apps, but neither are as good as C/C++ (for example) for teaching you programming basics, but allow for more rapid/productive development of software.

[ErikAlbert]

Long ago, I did some programming with FoxPro as an amateur. Microsoft bought FoxPro and changed the name in "Microsoft Visual FoxPro" and improved it of course.
It provides databases and is a very powerfull language with many commands and functions, so many that it takes some time to learn them all.
It was one of the few languages in those days that had the possibility to combine "data processing" and "text processing" easily, which was very usefull to create all kinds of output-documents.
After two applications, I gave up, didn't like programming.

[rarebeast]

I dont understand alot of the stuff you's just said because I am a complete newbie to programming so I need something very simple to learn....thanks for the feedback, oh yeah I forgot to mention that I'm using Mac if that makes any difference..

[HURST]

It would help if you told us what you already know.
I'll asume you are TOTALLY new to any concept of programming, including algorithms.

Here are good places to start:

What is a computer algorithm? (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/question717.htm)

How Boolean Logic Works (http://computer.howstuffworks.com/boolean.htm)


More info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Algorithm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boolean_logic

Once you are familiar with those terms, start with a programming tutorial, and start building simple programs, like for example a calculator (*,/,+,-) or stuff like that, to get familiar with the language and the structure.


Another option, but somewhat expensive, is to buy a Lego MindStorm kit. Here you can start simple programming a robot. This is a fun and easy way to learn (and great to get kids into programming and robotics).

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I dont understand alot of the stuff you's just said because I am a complete newbie to programming so I need something very simple to learn....thanks for the feedback, oh yeah I forgot to mention that I'm using Mac if that makes any difference.. <-QUOTE}
"Very simple" doesn't exist in program languages and it requires alot of learning and experience, no matter how simple the language is.
Try Objective-C under MAC OS X, read the manual and see if you can handle it.
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjectiveC/Introduction/chapter_1_section_1.html
In our computer department it takes about 3 years to become an experienced programmer and they learned programming at schools, when they start working.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> "Very simple" doesn't exist in program languages and it requires alot of learning and experience, no matter how simple the language is.
Try Objective-C under MAC OS X, read the manual and see if you can handle it.
http://developer.apple.com/documentation/Cocoa/Conceptual/ObjectiveC/Introduction/chapter_1_section_1.html
In our computer department it takes about 3 years to become an experienced programmer and they learned programming at schools, when they start working. <-QUOTE}

After 3 years '' experienced '' is not the right term. To be a full blown coder take at least 7 years.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> After 3 years '' experienced '' is not the right term. To be a full blown coder take at least 7 years. <-QUOTE}
That depends on the person. Some programmers are really skilled to do this job and improve themselves constantly, while other programmers reach a certain level of experience, but nothing more after that, we use these programmers for routine jobs.

[Kerodo]

{QUOTE-> I dont understand alot of the stuff you's just said because I am a complete newbie to programming so I need something very simple to learn....thanks for the feedback, oh yeah I forgot to mention that I'm using Mac if that makes any difference.. <-QUOTE}
ErikAlbert is right.... programming is something that takes a tremendous amount of time and a good bit of effort too. I stopped programming when Windows 95 came out, but in the DOS days I used to spend 12-16 hours a day working on stuff, for years.... It's probably easier now that it was then, but my guess is it will take a lot of time and patience on your part. If you're looking for easy, maybe programming is not what you want to do.. Not trying to discourage you, just be prepared.....

[rarebeast]

what programming language do you think I should learn as a first one, something that can be useful for writing a few small applications like a calculator?

[N1ckR]

I strongly reccomend you get a book and follow examples and pick whichever language(s) they use.
Wrox and O'Rielly are good tech book publishers (amongst others).

http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/Beginning-Programming-For-Dummies-4th-Edition.productCd-0470088702.html

http://www.wrox.com/WileyCDA/WroxTitle/productCd-0764584065.html

Pick one which comes with example CD's or downloads if possible, makes things a little easier.

Cheers, Nick

[ccsito]

I would recommend C++ or Java. I personally know virtually nothing about current programming trends, but everyone who works in the newer projects in my area know these languages. :-[

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Hello everyone,

I am trying to learn a small bit of simple programming in my spare time, any suggestions...thanks in advance! :) <-QUOTE}

Depends on your goals.

If you really want to learn programming, forget about the online tutorials.
For most of the p]rogramming lanuages, there are one, or more, good books to teach you.

[mizar]

Start with python or ruby.

This post (http://www.reddit.com/info/2ld0v/comments/) in reddit.com/r/programming/ has quite good recommendations.

Also stay away from php as a first programming language and the people who think html is a programming language.

[presrc]

Visual Basic

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Visual Basic <-QUOTE}
AFAIK, Visual Basic can't run under MAC OS X, but I could be wrong.

[presrc]

MAC? Isn't that a fruit?
Sorry folks.

[Someone]

Hi

What about Game Maker? It's relatively simple though (obviously) mainly for making games. I think it's only for Windows though, so you could buy Windows/a new computer or use a virtual machine I suppose.

[rarebeast]

I'm going to get a few books and go from there and I'll keep you's up to date with what I'm doing. Thanks for all the suggestions...

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> I'm going to get a few books and go from there and I'll keep you's up to date with what I'm doing. Thanks for all the suggestions... <-QUOTE}

Before buying books, let us know what programming language.
Although there are a number of worth-while books for each of many programming languages, there's also a lot of crap out there.

[ccsito]

{QUOTE-> there's also a lot of crap out there. <-QUOTE}

True. And that also applies to the computer code as well. ;D

[emperordarius]

Don't know for Mac, but for Windows IMO the most effective and easy to use programming language is Visual C#.

[rarebeast]

I was looking at http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/Beginning-Programming-All-In-One-Desk-Reference-For-Dummies.productCd-0470108541.html, it's Beginning Programming All In One Desk Reference For Dummies, anybody have it or is it any good?

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Don't know for Mac, but for Windows IMO the most effective and easy to use programming language is Visual C#. <-QUOTE}

Visual Basic .NET is easier than C#, especially if you wish to program for MSFT Office.

[emperordarius]

{QUOTE-> Visual Basic .NET is easier than C#, especially if you wish to program for MSFT Office. <-QUOTE}

Visual Basic.NET is more suited for rapid application development, but it gives you less control on the application. A lot of companies which developed in VB are switching to C#. And it is quite easy, considering that a 13 year old boy like me can understand it quite well ;)

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Visual Basic.NET is more suited for rapid application development, but it gives you less control on the application. A lot of companies which developed in VB are switching to C#. And it is quite easy, considering that a 13 year old boy like me can understand it quite well ;) <-QUOTE}


Not for MSFT Office programming.

Visual Basic .NET is easier than C# if you wish to program for MSFT Office.

[emperordarius]

{QUOTE-> Not for MSFT Office programming.

Visual Basic .NET is easier than C# if you wish to program for MSFT Office. <-QUOTE}

The Original poster wanted something MSFT office programming?:-\

[rarebeast]

is this book any good for beginning programming? http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/Beginning-Programming-All-In-One-Desk-Reference-For-Dummies.productCd-0470108541.html

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> is this book any good for beginning programming? http://www.dummies.com/WileyCDA/DummiesTitle/Beginning-Programming-All-In-One-Desk-Reference-For-Dummies.productCd-0470108541.html <-QUOTE}

IMNSHO, one can do better than most dummies books.

You should buy 2 books spewcific to the programming language you choose.
If you choose a MSFT language, such as VB or C/C++ or C# pr VB .NET, a good place to start, if you are new to programming, is the corresponding Step By Step book from MSFT press.

You also should get a book that is useful for learning, but can also serve as a reference.

What is your target language?

There are also books that are aimed at teaching programming pricipals, or computer science, using a specific language. DEpends on what approach works for you.

[N1ckR]

{QUOTE-> Visual Basic.NET is more suited for rapid application development, but it gives you less control on the application.
<-QUOTE}

You can have as much control over your apps with VB.net as with C# (or j# or python.net etc), don't know where you have got that information from...

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> You can have as much control over your apps with VB.net as with C# (or j# or python.net etc), don't know where you have got that information from... <-QUOTE}

Absolutivily!

The .NET languages are just about equal in capability.
VB .NET is the easiest to use, especially when programming MSFT Office.

It is true that VB 6 gave one less control than C/C++, but so what, most apps do not need that level of control.

[Sully]

I will tell you from experience. C language. For just learning to do some code writing, it is not the easiest. But in the end, it is where you will want to end up. I know a number of languages enough to do what I have wanted, especially script languages. You know, make neat little scripts to automate this or that. I especially like AutoIT becasue the language is fairly easy to use, you can create GUI shells, and you can compile them into a standalone exe.

However, I now struggle to learn C due to lack of time. I wish now that I had spent my free time then on C of some kind, probably C++. Reason? I have advanced far enough that I wish to make plugins and such, as well as some PIC applications. There are more resources and example for this kind of programming in C than others, IMO.

Whatever the case, learning the logic of any language will learn you the logic of all languages. Each language is different, but generally speaking the logic of each remains the same.

Good Luck.
Sul.

[ccsito]

{QUOTE->
Each language is different, but generally speaking the logic of each remains the same.
<-QUOTE}

Computer algorithms remain the same, only the outer covering is different. :isay:

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> I will tell you from experience. C language. For just learning to do some code writing, it is not the easiest. But in the end, it is where you will want to end up. I know a number of languages enough to do what I have wanted, especially script languages. You know, make neat little scripts to automate this or that. I especially like AutoIT becasue the language is fairly easy to use, you can create GUI shells, and you can compile them into a standalone exe.

However, I now struggle to learn C due to lack of time. I wish now that I had spent my free time then on C of some kind, probably C++. Reason? I have advanced far enough that I wish to make plugins and such, as well as some PIC applications. There are more resources and example for this kind of programming in C than others, IMO.

Whatever the case, learning the logic of any language will learn you the logic of all languages. Each language is different, but generally speaking the logic of each remains the same.

Good Luck.
Sul. <-QUOTE}

THere are a number of good books for learning C.

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Computer algorithms remain the same, only the outer covering is different. :isay: <-QUOTE}


The means for implementation can vary significantly from language to language.

[N1ckR]

You do actually get different programming paradigms, which means certain algorithms do not work.

Eg you cannot loop in a funtional language, you have to use a lambda function to determin the relationships to create a set of data.
End effect is the same, but the under lying algorthims are chalk and cheese different.

There is a lot of overlap in which algorithms work, you can emulate certain algorithmic techniques (eg functional programming in C is only an emulation) and certain techniques are simply not possible (eg you cannot manage state with a pure functional language) and certain languages are a mixture of various paradigms (eg Python).

[Sully]

Erm, what I meant was that if you know nothing about coding, then just learning some basic stuff like what a loop is, what an array is, maybe what push does, what a variable is, let alone a class. There are lot's of things you can learn even in a script language that will help you with like say an object oriented one.

Granted some languages are just a bit different, but still the premise of 'I want to step through that X times' or 'this should do this until that' or even 'if this then that' I think are the root of programming.

Sul.

[bellgamin]

If you want to be employed by a company that writes software (such as Microsoft, Kasperski, Symantec, etc) then you must learn to program in such manner that your code can be COMPANY code. That is, your code must be well-structured and clearly annotated so that other programmers can work with it.

When I instructed beginner programmers, a 9-month school term included...

1- One month of Assembler language. Just the very basics. Assembly Language is as close as you can come to writing in machine language, but has the advantage that it's also human-readable... using a small vocabulary of words with one syllable. Once you have a basic understanding of Assembler, then you will have a sound foundation for learning higher-level languages.

2- 6 months of Pascal. Pascal is a high-level program language that more or less FORCES the programmer to use a structured approach & other good programming skills. Pascal teaches the programmer to avoid "spaghetti code" and easily-overlooked mistakes that plague programmers using languages such as C, Visual Basic, etc. Thus, a good foundation in Pascal especially helps the programmer to develop those programming skills that are essential when working with teams of systems analysts & programmers. Pascal tools are available from various sources for Windows, Mac, and Unix-like systems.

3- 2 months of "Introduction to C++, Ada, Ruby, & PERL." Just an overview. (This course completed the first year for beginning programmers. In the second year, students were permitted to select and learn a major high-level language of their choice (most elected C++).

NOTE- Do not go for Visual Basic. No no no! VB apps are impossible to port to other environments. Also, you're at the mercy of Microsoft's changing specs for the language. Worst yet, VB is available only from Microsoft, & only for Windows.

[ccsito]

Good points made by all. Most of the current college DP courses focuses on C++, Java, HTML, and web based programming.

Pascal is no longer taught at my local college. Ada- the supposed language for all computer languages at DOD? What became of that? :-\

PERFORM, PERFORM-UNTIL, WHILE-DO loops are usually taught in all introductory courses.

[Howard Kaikow]

If one wants to be a professional programmer, one must learn the concepts via language such as C++ or Java.

If one wants to applications, there's nothing wrong with learning VB .NET, and then moving on to C++ in .NET, and C#.

To learn elementary programming stuff, there's nothing wrong with starting with VBA. Especially if you feel comfortable witha particular Office app.

With Office 2007, MSFT has put in better hooks for the.NET programming languages, but, for working with Office, VB.NET is much easier, especially for the beginner.

It's not worth learning VB 6(Note that I do almost all current programming in VB 6).

[MICRO]

{QUOTE-> what programming language do you think I should learn as a first one, something that can be useful for writing a few small applications like a calculator? <-QUOTE}
Python -

http://www.freenetpages.co.uk/hp/alan.gauld/