openSUSE 11 Out!

[Coolio10]

Its out!!!!

http://news.opensuse.org/2008/06/19/announcing-opensuse-110-gm/

I am not instaling it yet. I want reviews. If anyone has installed it please give your own little review here.

[L815]

Oh great news! :argh:

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
It's absolutely impossible for a human to keep up with all the new software. No time to review them all, no time ...
Mrk

[L815]

-{ Quote: "Its out!!!!

http://news.opensuse.org/2008/06/19/announcing-opensuse-110-gm/

I am not instaling it yet. I want reviews. If anyone has installed it please give your own little review here." }-

Live Cd?

[Sputnik]

-{ Quote: "Live Cd?" }-
Yes, both a Gnome and KDE4 one... :)

[lodore]

you sure can waste alot of dvd's and cd's testing out linux.
im still trying out fedora 9
it was working until i tryed to reinstall it properly with seprate home partition.

[Sputnik]

@lodore
How about CD-RW, DVD+RW, DVD-RW... Or netinstall... ;D

[Meriadoc]

lol@Mrk
Thanks for the heads up.

[demoneye]

-{ Quote: "you sure can waste alot of dvd's and cd's testing out linux.
im still trying out fedora 9
it was working until i tryed to reinstall it properly with seprate home partition." }-

u can use VM or VIRTUALBOX waste none :)

chers

[Beavenburt]

-{ Quote: "Hello,
It's absolutely impossible for a human to keep up with all the new software. No time to review them all, no time ...
Mrk" }-

Agree with that Mrk' There's so many I want to try but so little time.

I didn't really get on with Suse 10.3. I can't put my finger on it, but it just didn't feel right to me. That's not to say it's bad, I just didn't fall in love with it.

I've actually managed to stay with a distro for a month now - The mighty Zenwalk. I love it and it's also the only distro that i've managed to set up on the missus Dell laptop. IMO a great distro that's well worth a look. I really don't have that urge to hop now. I have found my Linux grail *until the next one ;)

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "u can use VM or VIRTUALBOX waste none :)

chers" }-
true but wmware server doesnt work with vista yet and couldnt get internet in virtual box.
@Sputnik,
only have write once cd's and dvd's atm.
i may try the net install.

[Meriadoc]

-{ Quote: "true but wmware server doesnt work with vista yet" }-
Do you mean your version of Vista lodore?

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "Do you mean your version of Vista lodore?" }-
i mean that wmware server 1 doesnt fully support vista yet as far as i know.
didnt work fully last time i tryed it.
i have vista home premium 32bit Sp1.
if thats not what you meant im not sure what you mean.

[Longboard]

On the board: SuSe 11, PC/OS, Tiny Me, Open Solaris 2008/5

In the current Mix: EasySys, Arch, Zenwalk 5.2, Vector, Xubuntu
(...oooooohhh slackware ...:-* with XFCE = :-* :-* )
Wrestling with PC-BSD and desktopBSD
Looking at Ulteo, Wubi, andlinux: not quite cooked.
Mepis and Wolvix in the mix :)

Dumped: Ubuntu HH, Foresight, Mandriva , Myah 3, gOs

One OS to rule them all: PCLOS. VERY hard to beat here. Benchmark for o'n'o useability and accessability.

It started as an interest.. nowgonetopotchasingdistroshopelessaddictnoteatenfordayseyesbleedingnoshowerbucketinroompressureulcerssleepinchairsoakingitupneednewdistroeveryday... actualworkgonetohellinbasketHDoverheatedscreenmeltedfamilymovedout..living for kernel ppaaannniiiccc and dependency hhhheeellllll....

Heeelllllpppp mmmeee
:o

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "
Heeelllllpppp mmmeee
" }-
OK.
Start by getting rid of Suse, and mono stuff. Avoid Novell. Just my opinion though..

[Sputnik]

@Pedro
Nothing wrong with Novell. :thumb: Without Novell many big open-source projects would have serious problems. The whole Microsoft-pact thingy is very very very over hyped... :-\

[Pedro]

No, the big problems arise with these people.
There's a whole blog on Novell and similar you might want to follow. A bit over the top, but generally right.

[Sputnik]

They got a special website about it:
http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/

Personally I find it a pity that many people in the open-source media are very black 'n white thinking. While the Novell-Microsoft pact might be very business (financial) orientated, people forget the important role of Novell in the open-source world. Without Novell projects like OpenOffice.org would almost stall in development.

[Pedro]

It's not free software, and it's bundled in SUSE, GNOME, god knows what else. Whenever they want, they can stop feeding Novell for Mono development, and you're stuck.
http://boycottnovell.com/2007/07/23/gnome-mono-dep/

They also reserve the right to sue, afaik. Only Novel won't be sued, because of the deal. For whatever time MS let them that is.
http://boycottnovell.com/2008/03/07/mono-oftware-patent-trap/
http://www.thestandard.com/news/2008/03/06/mix-novells-de-icaza-criticizes-microsoft-patent-deal

Slowly they put non free software in the heart of major free software projects. It's the way i see it, and there's nothing that will change my opinion.

The only thing we have going for us is RMS, with the GPL v3.

There's a lot you should read.

Stick with Fedora.
-{ Quote: "There are serious concerns about Moonlight, due to Microsoft and Novell's public statements around its inclusion in their "covenant". In addition to that Groklaw has [posted] (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20080528133529454) a FAQ from Software Freedom Law Center (SFLC) on the issues with this patent "covenant". Accordingly, this technology (with, or without codecs), is considered too risky, and is not acceptable for inclusion in Fedora." }-
http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/ForbiddenItems#Moonlight

[lodore]

i dont have anything against novell.
my college used to have novell servers the year before i went to it and the network worked great. but the main person who set it alll up retired so the people left couldnt be bothered to learn linux so they installed windows 2003 on the servers and now the network is rubbish,crashs alot and is slow.
anyway why should novell be any different than anyother company making linux distros?
linux is getting easier to install and use all the time soon enough everyone will be using linux in some form or another and microsoft might not excist. *crosses fingers*

[Pedro]

lodore, MS will always exist.
The question is, just how free will free software be.

The main issue is not about how easy it is to install. It's about proprietary or free. Being free (not in cost terms!!), is what it's all about.

[wat0114]

-{ Quote: "
One OS to rule them all: PCLOS. VERY hard to beat here. Benchmark for o'n'o useability and accessability.
" }-

I agree Longboard! Been using it for about a month and simply love it :)

[dw426]

-{ Quote: "i dont have anything against novell.
my college used to have novell servers the year before i went to it and the network worked great. but the main person who set it alll up retired so the people left couldnt be bothered to learn linux so they installed windows 2003 on the servers and now the network is rubbish,crashs alot and is slow.
anyway why should novell be any different than anyother company making linux distros?
linux is getting easier to install and use all the time soon enough everyone will be using linux in some form or another and microsoft might not excist. *crosses fingers*" }-

Not until software developers making the drivers, computer manufacturers' jump out of Microsofts' pockets and web developers stop concentrating on Internet Explorer they won't. You're not going to see a worldwide move to Linux until graphics cards, wireless, games, sound cards and so on work straight out of the box and also not in a crippled form....without having to use just 1 or 2 brands of hardware makers. You also have to get people to move away from the standards in Office software and the like and into the more open source ones.

Let's face it, if it doesn't work right without having to result in tweaking, workarounds and all that, people, especially businesses, are not likely to adopt to it. There's nothing at all wrong with Linux, Linux itself is ready, but the people with the money that can help it and support growth, are not. You also have to realize that as long as Microsoft has the billions and the market, they aren't going to go away.

[Sputnik]

@Pedro
I understand your concerns. However I don't fully understand Fedora's opinion on Moonlight:
-{ Quote: "Mono is dual licensed by Novell, similar to other products such as Qt and the Mozilla Application Suite. Mono's C# compiler and tools are released under the GNU General Public License (GPL) (starting with version 2.0 of Mono, the Mono C# compiler source code will also be available under the MIT X11 license)[5], the runtime libraries under the GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL) and the class libraries under the MIT License. These are all free software and open-source licenses and hence Mono is free and open-source software." }-

I'll read me in the possible legal issues more when I get home. Though I would like to say that the whole Mono development might not be that bad. In corporate environments many applications are switching to .NET, making them compatible or easy to port to Linux is a big advantage in my opinion.

[SystemJunkie]

-{ Quote: "I am not instaling it yet. I want reviews. If anyone has installed it please give your own little review here." }-
I downloaded live cd 32/64 bit.

Yast is great, I love this information tool, btw did anyone also experience BeZae at the end of most device IDs?
Sounds like da vinci fans.

[Pedro]

Sputnik, from that quote alone, i notice the "dual licensed by Novell".
It's almost .net, licensed by Novell, not MS.

Whenever MS comes with FUD about patent infringements issues in 'Linux', think of this kind of arrangements.

[Sputnik]

Dual-licensing is not uncommon:
-{ Quote: "A second use of dual-licensing with free software is for license compatibility, allowing code from differently licensed free software projects to be combined, or to provide users the preference to pick a license.

Examples include the source code of Mozilla Application Suite, Mozilla Thunderbird and Mozilla Firefox, which is tri-licensed under the Mozilla Public License (MPL), GNU General Public License (GPL) and GNU Lesser General Public License (LGPL);[1] and Perl, which is dual-licensed under the GPL and Artistic License." }-

-{ Quote: "Supporting services are not the only way that an open source business can make money, they can make money from licensing. Clearly, if software is released under an open source licence it is not practicable to charge for the software as your neighbour can give it away for free. However, an open source software vendor may choose to dual license its software. This means that its software is made available both under an open source licence and under a different licensing scheme that may incur a licence fee. But why would anyone choose the chargeable licence? There are some very good reasons why this might happen and the most common by far is that the open source software is to be re-used within a proprietary software product." }-

(PS. Not bashing of course, just try to learn from each other :thumb: )

[lodore]

back to the topic of opensuse is out.
i have just installed opensuse to my really old pc using a net install.
i updated it.
i then opened the package manager typed in opera searched one click and it was installed. thats easier than installing opera in windows.
cant get flash player to work. search for flash player in package manager ticked it and clicked install let it finish and then lanched firefox and still a plugin was missing even thou i had installed flash player ugh.
was hoping it was gonna be as easy and quick as installing opera was and would then work when i reopened firefox.
any ideas?

also i told opensuse to shutdown and then it should a shell for a few seconds then went back to a gui with a progess bar the bar got to the end but it did not shutdown. i will wait for a while. hopefully it will shutdown properly dont wanna mess it up already lol.

[Sputnik]

@lodore
Go to the following page for codecs and Flash-plugin:
http://opensuse-community.org/Multimedia

The shutdown procedure like you describe is correct, just wait a little and see what happens.

[Pedro]

I'll stop lodore. I just felt the need to warn people. This is a problem.

Sputnik, it's not the dual licensing that's at stake (although that isn't peaceful on its own), it's about the license holder.

It's not Novell's to give you see.

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "@lodore
Go to the following page for codecs and Flash-plugin:
http://opensuse-community.org/Multimedia

The shutdown procedure like you describe is correct, just wait a little and see what happens." }-
thanks Sputnik
works great:thumb:
tryed java and flash in firefox 3
probaly try in opera 9.5 tomorrow.
it didnt seem to shutdown so i presssed the off button and it went off right away. its like it had finished shutting down safely but it was still on.
happerned again on the second shutdown as well.

[Sputnik]

@lodore
Probably the computer does not shut down automatically, I remember the same thing with old Windows 95/98 computers, or old computers running XP. Not a software issue, hardware related.


@Pedro
It's all fine comrade, and I do respect your opinion. I think we both look at it from a different point of view. Too be honest with you, in the (quite near) past I had almost the same point of view like you have. Though due my work and studies my point of view slowly changed. People with different points of view keep the OSS community balanced, which is a important thing.

[lodore]

i like opensuse one hella alot. i may even dual boot on my main pc.
will need to resize C:, then start the installation of linux making sure i install the bootloader on to the partition of linux and not overwrite the mbr then the vista bootloader to load linux.
or i could even replace the vista bootloader with grub.
the opensuse installed on my old pc has windows as a second option on the bootloader. so im assuming if windows was installed that boot entrie would boot to vista if vista was installed on the pc.
may do it in a few weeks time when im off college and got some time.

[Sputnik]

@lodore
Nice to hear :) Do you use openSUSE with Gnome or KDE4?

Just for you a little gift, webcore-fonts rpm's:
http://avi.alkalay.net/software/webcore-fonts/webcore-fonts-3.0-1.noarch.rpm
http://avi.alkalay.net/software/webcore-fonts/webcore-fonts-vista-3.0-1.noarch.rpm

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "@lodore
Nice to hear :) Do you use openSUSE with Gnome or KDE4?

Just for you a little gift, webcore-fonts rpm's:
http://avi.alkalay.net/software/webcore-fonts/webcore-fonts-3.0-1.noarch.rpm
http://avi.alkalay.net/software/webcore-fonts/webcore-fonts-vista-3.0-1.noarch.rpm" }-
Hello Sputnik,
thanks for the little gift. will download them later.
i just wish creative would get there act together and make x-fi drivers for linux.
i may try out kompiz fusion with my nvidia 8800gt graphics card:D
i use KDE4
what do you use?

[Sputnik]

@lodore
Personally I'm a huge Qt4 fan, it's a pleasure to program. Though I must admit that I use Gnome since version 2.16. At work I use Fedora (and CentOS) both with Gnome interface and became familiar with it. Ok I shouldn't lie, most of the time the CentOS is command-line. ;)

I'd probably switch back to KDE after the 4.1.x release, I did run the 4.0 beta's and also submitted patches to the KDE team. Stability wise Gnome is rock-solid, it hasn't failed me ever. Though I do miss features and the Qt toolkit... :(

My opinion, if KDE4 runs stable for you, go for it! It'll only get better and better.

[Sputnik]

I assume you already installed the NVIDIA drivers?
http://en.opensuse.org/NVIDIA

Unfortunately I can't help you with audio thingy's. I have onboard AC'97 crap witch always works since 2002 :ouch: , and no experience with Creative or Auzentech cards.

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "I assume you already installed the NVIDIA drivers?
http://en.opensuse.org/NVIDIA

Unfortunately I can't help you with audio thingy's. I have onboard AC'97 crap witch always works since 2002 :ouch: , and no experience with Creative or Auzentech cards." }-
acually no i havent installed the nvidia drivers well at least not from that link and havent noticed it being installed
i added the nvidia reposotory when i setup yast2 system updates.
dual booting linux with vista does seem to take a while to get it to work from reading around. so im not sure atm.
i had some crashs with KDE4 plasma today when adding widgets. at one point it was so bad the gui disapeared and i couldnt get it back without a reboot.
so im gonna have to make sure im prepared for the dual boot of vista and opensuse as well as probaly waiting a while before i use KDE4 its very nice but not very stable atm.

[Sputnik]

@lodore
You might try Gnome or KDE 3.5.9 from the DVD of course :) There are enough stable choices around.

[Kerodo]

Installed this one last night and I have to say it just keeps getting better with each release. The new installer was excellent, did it all pretty much automatically without any problems. Very very nice look and feel. Using KDE4 here. No issues so far, and some nice features. Only thing I had to do was install the libxine1 libs from Packman repository to get Kaffeine video working. Mp3 playing was there out of the box, as is flash. Performance is pretty good. If you do have issues with KDE4, then Gnome is probably more stable right now, and a good choice also. I do like Gnome a lot, but wanted to check out the new KDE. Anyway, SUSE is always one of my top favorites/choices. Like this 11 a lot.

[SystemJunkie]

I installed a little vm version, the very good aspect is, internet connection worked immediately in contradiction to windows xp in da box.
But I miss more features and more software, they copied some design parts of vista. Imho its becoming boring pretty fast but maybe it was only because of the first try. Definitely more cool add ons respectively gimmicks needed.

[L815]

OpenSuse finally ran well on my Laptop compared to other versions. The issue this time where with yast and dependencies which kept giving me errors. I then gave up -_-

OpenSuse is a beautifully made distro IMO :)

[Longboard]

SUSE11 with KDE 3.x going great in a vm: very nice installer.
The Xfce was a bit overcrowded and neded some wt loos surgery to get organized !! and seemed not to have the usual 'speedy' feel.
KDE 4 froze once or twice
Gnome is OK but SUSe was originally default KDE and so I sticking with that protem.

As to the License isssues; no doubt a concern, but convergent evolution is not neccessarily a bad thing and if MS wants to flex some muscle later... fdisk ;)

Doesn't ubuntu also use some tool called mono which is part of this licensing deal ??

[Kerodo]

I kinda expected bugs with KDE4, but I have to say that I have seen none yet after running it for a week here... I guess it depends on a variety of things like hardware and usage.... But I am pleasantly surprised so far..

Haven't tried Xfce for a while, not in SUSE anyway...

[Longboard]

-{ Quote: "Haven't tried Xfce for a while, not in SUSE anyway..." }-\
Yeah: was a bit surprised to see it.. just a test: lol: the app launcher list went off the top of the page in the initial set-up :o

If you want to play with desktops : install frugalware: cant recall exactly but ALL the desktops there :great fun.

Slackware: has a serious wow factor: just don't criticise the OS no matter how screwy it may appear: the slackonistas will hunt you down ...;) lol.

Slack and xfce = very nice. Check Zenwalk or Vector : really complete systems.

[Pedro]

Longboard: http://www.slitaz.org/en/
;D

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "

Slack and xfce = very nice. Check Zenwalk or Vector : really complete systems." }-
Yep, have used Zenwalk a few times and really like it, it's pretty minimalistic, but very nice if you're looking for that kind of setup. I stuck with it for about 2 months last year....

I am told Sidux is very nice, that's on my list to try out next....... I found some image software for Linux and made a few images of the SUSE 11 setup, so with any luck I can try others and then return to this setup easily. I am pretty much sold on SUSE at this point. For some reason, I just love it.

[Longboard]

-{ Quote: "Longboard: http://www.slitaz.org/en" }-
Ya; :) been there; liked it: needs some more repos and apps for me, but fast +++ : I like the minimalist distros ( esp Puppy flavours : check out the "Puplets" http://www.puppylinux.org/downloads/puplets : Teen Pup even on distrowatch. LOL: Kauler refers to FF as "the very large browser" install )

-{ Quote: "I found some image software for Linux " }-?? which what where ??

[Pedro]

I wasn't aware of that Longboard. The thing is, although i'm most curious, we gots 1 life only :P . I will keep an eye on Puppy.

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "

?? which what where ??" }-
Regarding image software for Linux, there are several. The one that works best for me is Clonezilla:

http://www.clonezilla.org/

It's free, supports all kinds of file systems, seems to work well without any snags, etc. I did an image of my SUSE HD (entire disk) onto an NTFS partition with no problems at all. It stores the your partitions, including swap, as well as boot loader info, the whole thing. Kinda cool. Compresses it down to various levels, your choice. Get the Clonezilla Live and burn it to CD, then boot off the CD and take it from there...

Handy dandy util.... :)

[SystemJunkie]

Uh.. weird things happen with Open Suse 11 Linux Live CD.
Three systems, three different reactions.
64 bit system Intel with 64 bit Live CD: Hang up and purple-grey color wall on screen. 32 bit system Amd with 32 bit Live CD: purple-grey color wall on screen more intense then on Intel system, last but not least Amd 64 bit system with 32 bit Linux Live CD: Hang up, reason: Failed to detect CD drives... crazy.

[jon123]

yes but does it create more problems then it fixes?

what was in that guys sig... started as whatever but turned into losing the family trying to keep up!

jeez, 98 would probly still be working and filling my needs (oops, it is) but for those extras I decided to add in so they could be patched, just in case I ever needed them....

Last thing I want is to be faced with is the same "update to the latest wiz bang shite" from linux as has been the problem with MS!

KiDdiE gui, hrmph