DefenseWall v2.43 and WinXPproSP3 ?

[ErikAlbert]

WinXPproSP3 CD
In order to install WinXPproSP3 off-line I created a CD, based on this link :
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=2fcde6ce-b5fb-4488-8c50-fe22559d164e&displaylang=en
After burning that ISO-file, the CD was OK and working properly.

Installation of WinXPproSP3
I installed SP3 in my online snapshot and at the end of the installation, it stucked and didn't continue anymore.

The screen mentioned these two lines :
Finishing installation
Running processes after install

I ended the installation in Task Manager and used my boot-to-restore to uninstall the leftovers of an unsuccessfull installation of SP3.

Problem
I installed SP3 in other images without a problem and that means there was nothing wrong with the CD.
All the tested images had one thing common : no security softwares installed.

My online image however has 3 security softwares :
1. Sygate Personal Firewall Pro
2. Anti-Executable
3. DefenseWall
An infection was in theory impossible because of my personal procedures for using ISR in combination with IB.

Anti-Executable was OFF during the installation and I even uninstalled it completely. The problem was still there, so it wasn't Anti-Executable

I uninstalled Sygate Personal Firewall Pro completely and the problem was still there, so it wasn't SPFP either

I disabled DefenseWall and the problem was still there.
I UNinstalled DefenseWall completely and the problem was gone and SP3 was finally properly installed. I had the previous version 2.40, so I installed v2.43, exactly the same problem.

Conclusion
If DefenseWall v2.43 is installed, enabled or disabled, you can NOT install SP3 and it causes a mess in your system.
If DefenseWall v2.43 is NOT installed or UNinstalled, you can install SP3.
I also tested Windows Update (online) and the same problem.

DefenseWall-users can test this easily, based on this post, but backup your system FIRST, otherwise your actual system will be a mess.

[lucas1985]

Erik,
Having this file (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=5B33B5A8-5E76-401F-BE08-1E1555D4F3D4&displaylang=en) is enough to do an offline installation of SP3 (or slipstreaming to a XP CD if you will). You can burn it to a CD/DVD, carry it on a USB drive, etc.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Erik,
Having this file (http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?familyid=5B33B5A8-5E76-401F-BE08-1E1555D4F3D4&displaylang=en) is enough to do an offline installation of SP3 (or slipstreaming to a XP CD if you will). You can burn it to a CD/DVD, carry it on a USB drive, etc." }-
This file causes the very same problem. Did you really test it ???
Slipstreaming without re-activating Windows ?

[lucas1985]

You won't need to re-activate your copy of Windows if you install SP3 in an already-activated instalation (like yours). You'll have to re-activate Windows if you do an install from scratch (format > install) from the newly created XP CD w/SP3 integrated. (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/xpsp3_slipstream.asp) You might avoid this re-activation if you backup the required WPA files (http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php), since you won't be changing hardware.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "You won't need to re-activate your copy of Windows if you install SP3 in an already-activated instalation (like yours). You'll have to re-activate Windows if you do an install from scratch (format > install) from the newly created XP CD w/SP3 integrated. (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/xpsp3_slipstream.asp) You might avoid this re-activation if you backup the required WPA files (http://www.aumha.org/win5/a/wpa.php), since you won't be changing hardware." }-
I prefer a second CD along with the original CD, much easier.
I've done that WPA already in the past, DOES NOT WORK. :)

BTW : this is about DefenseWall, not SP3.

[innerpeace]

Erik, these threads may help a little.
http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72746&pid=205086&mode=threaded&start=#entry205086
http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72681&pid=204946&mode=threaded&start=#entry204946

I also saw pre-release for v2.44 is available although I don't know what it fixes.
http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73780

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Erik, these threads may help a little.
http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72746&pid=205086&mode=threaded&start=#entry205086
http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=72681&pid=204946&mode=threaded&start=#entry204946
" }-
And they call this a solution ? I figured that out already, that's not a solution that is a workaround. I will wait to hear Ilya. :)

[innerpeace]

It does sound a bit inconvenient. I only posted to let you know that others have been through the same thing.

FWIW, I made a slipstreamed disk with nLite and it was fairly easy thanks to great help. I still had to activate Windows though :dry:. I made the nLited cd to have a "cleaner" installation and added a few important drivers.

With a major change like SP3, maybe it's best to do a clean install... Of course that doesn't help you with the activation problem. If you figure that one out, let me know :).

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "It does sound a bit inconvenient. I only posted to let you know that others have been through the same thing.

FWIW, I made a slipstreamed disk with nLite and it was fairly easy thanks to great help. I still had to activate Windows though :dry:. I made the nLited cd to have a "cleaner" installation and added a few important drivers.

With a major change like SP3, maybe it's best to do a clean install... Of course that doesn't help you with the activation problem. If you figure that one out, let me know :)." }-
Again this is NOT about SP3, not about slipstreaming, this is about DEFENSEWALL. SP3 has never been a problem for me.
If I go OT my posts are deleted, why not in this case ?

[innerpeace]

I'm aware this is about DefenseWall. Didn't you notice I searched their forum to try and help? Did you?

Just a guess, but since DefenseWall is a HIPS and it most likely has hooks, one or more of them may be blocking the complete installation of SP3. Again that is just a guess. I'm sure you'll get clarification. And yes, I do realize that you disabled DefenseWall but afaik, the hooks still persist.

Apparently your waiting for Ilya to reply so I'm done trying to help. Good luck

[Teknokrat]

-{ Quote: "Again this is NOT about SP3, not about slipstreaming, this is about DEFENSEWALL. " }-<snip>
-{ Quote: "Slipstreaming without re-activating Windows ?" }-

Still you chose to name the thread "DefenseWall v2.43 and WinXPproSP3"?
You have problems upgrading one of your images to SP3?
How can you say that this thread isn't about SP3? Strange.

I understand your question wasn't about SP3 specifically but to say that posts about SP3 is OT is wrong.

regards
/T

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "<snip>


Still you chose to name the thread "DefenseWall v2.43 and WinXPproSP3"?
You have problems upgrading one of your images to SP3?
How can you say that this thread isn't about SP3? Strange.

I understand your question wasn't about SP3 specifically but to say that posts about SP3 is OT is wrong.

regards
/T" }-
DefenseWall is the reason why I can't install SP3. I don't have a problem with SP3. SP3 installs fine when DefenseWall isn't installed.

Workaround (not solution) :
1. Uninstall DefenseWall (Disable Protection in DW is not enough)
2. Install SP3
3. Install DefenseWall

This is NOT a solution, because installing SP3, when DefenseWall is on board, is a disaster : all the files of SP3 are installed, but the installation is unfinished and the user can clean up the mess.
Microsoft doesn't say "Hey watch out for DefenseWall", so the AVERAGE user doesn't know anything.
Microsoft warns to do a backup, but how many users have a backup ? Most of them can't even keep their computer clean.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

Interesting information. Very interesting. OK, I'll try to reproduce it with my test virtual computers.

[farmerlee]

There definitely seems to be a problem installing sp3 while DW is enabled. I was able to replicate the same problem inside a VM. I tried again, this time i disabled DW and exited the app and i was able to succesfully finish the sp3 installation. Upon reboot it did crash out however i simply rebooted again and it started up just fine and windows appears to be working fine.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "There definitely seems to be a problem installing sp3 while DW is enabled. I was able to replicate the same problem inside a VM. I tried again, this time i disabled DW and exited the app and i was able to succesfully finish the sp3 installation. Upon reboot it did crash out however i simply rebooted again and it started up just fine and windows appears to be working fine." }-
In my case "Disable Protection" was not enough, because it was already disabled from the beginning. I really had to uninstall completely and then SP3 installed itself properly.
I didn't know what was going on. First I thought it was malware, then I used the method of elimination to find out which software caused this.
I was really surprised it was DefenseWall. Very weird. I never saw a software blocking an installation of Service Pack.
The first time I waited 2 hours, but it didn't continue.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Interesting information. Very interesting. OK, I'll try to reproduce it with my test virtual computers." }-
OK. Ilya. If you still need me to give more information, I can re-create the situation, but explain exactly what you need, because I don't know much about the technical stuff. :)

[Ilya Rabinovich]

ErikAlbert, looks like the issue is not really stable according farmerlee. If you can re-create the situation once again- please, mail me and I'll send you test drivers set for tests at your computer (from my practice- some issues are not reproducible at my test machines). In parallel, I'll check everything with my virtual machines.

[farmerlee]

It definitely is an unstable issue, i just ran the same test again and this time i was able to succesfully install sp3 with DW enabled. The only difference was the location of the install file which i doubt had anything to do with it (first time the install file was on the desktop, second time in My Documents).
I still had the same crash upon reboot however as before i just rebooted again and all works fine now (might just be a VM bug). So i'm completely puzzled by the whole problem. Both times i did a clean xp with sp2 install, then installed dw v2.43, restarted then installed sp3 using the WindowsXP-KB936929-SP3-x86-ENU self extracting cabinet file.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

Was able to reproduce the issue. Tomorrow will start investigation process.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Was able to reproduce the issue. Tomorrow will start investigation process." }-
OK. Good luck !!!

[EASTER]

And again is evidence of Microsoft's disruptions policy on each one of these Service Packs, just makes for more and more issues and time consumng fixes.

They must get a real charge out of knowing they fashion their SP's to break security software and is why i steer extremely clear from them.

[Antarctica]

-{ Quote: "And again is evidence of Microsoft's disruptions policy on each one of these Service Packs, just makes for more and more issues and time consumng fixes.

They must get a real charge out of knowing they fashion their SP's to break security software and is why i steer extremely clear from them." }-

Anyway the benefit of SP3 is very little and I will pass my turn this time...

[Ilya Rabinovich]

The issue is fixed.

[Kees1958]

One day fix time after being able to reproduce and issue was posted in a general forum, :thumb:

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "The issue is fixed." }-
WOW. That's fast Grandmaster Ilya. :thumb: 8)

[Ilya Rabinovich]

It was easy- must easyer that WinDfs issue I'm working on right now.

[demoneye]

little of topic question ... how can i empty defensewall 2.43 "continer" like we do in SB?

chers

[Ilya Rabinovich]

There is no such the container with DefenseWall- other idealogy. "Rollback" function is for advanced users only- they clearly understand what are they doing.

[ErikAlbert]

demoneye,
I don't use the Rollback feature of DW for two reasons :
1. I'm not an advanced user.
2. My complete system partition rolls back to its previous state during reboot.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

ErikAlbert, you may try new pre-2.44 version with this fix- it's just uploaded.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "ErikAlbert, you may try new pre-2.44 version with this fix- it's just uploaded." }-
Normally, I use final versions of Defensewall only, but I willing to make an exception in a test image for one-time usage and re-install SP3 again to see if there is an improvement.
One problem : I can't find the pre-2.44 version on your website, at least not on the usual download webpage.

[Tony]

Hi, you can find 2.44 here http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73780

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Hi, you can find 2.44 here http://gladiator-antivirus.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=73780" }-
Thanks man, I have it now.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "ErikAlbert, you may try new pre-2.44 version with this fix- it's just uploaded." }-
I ran the same test again, this time with DefenseWall v2.44 installed and "Disable Protection" marked.
Again the installation of SP3 froze at the end. So it is still not fixed. :(

The story continues ... but this has nothing to do with the test.
I was wondering what Windows would do after a corrupted installation of SP3, so I rebooted.
Windows noticed something was wrong and rolled back to SP2, all by itself.
This is the very first time that Windows shows an artificial intelligent reaction and recovered itself completely. Usually my boot-to-restore does that, but not this time. Unbelievable.
My guess is that Windows learned from my boot-to-restore and wanted to show off. ;)

[Peter2150]

Erik. My hats off to Ilya, but I wonder why you are that anxious to install SP3. One of my computers came back from repair with a clean install of SP3. I reinstalled all my software, and all at first looks well, but I am finding a few squirrelly issues that seem to stem from SP3. I am looking at how to uninstall it. Think twice.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Erik. My hats off to Ilya, but I wonder why you are that anxious to install SP3. One of my computers came back from repair with a clean install of SP3. I reinstalled all my software, and all at first looks well, but I am finding a few squirrelly issues that seem to stem from SP3. I am looking at how to uninstall it. Think twice." }-
SP3 doesn't cause any problems on my computer, why would I uninstall it ?
Defensewall is the problem, not SP3.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "SP3 doesn't cause any problems on my computer, why would I uninstall it ?
Defensewall is the problem, not SP3." }-

Okay, fair enough. Not counting the DW install problem, I thought SP3 was fine also. Now not so sure.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "Again the installation of SP3 froze at the end. So it is still not fixed." }-
Mail me to support e-mail, I'll send you all the further instructions.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Mail me to support e-mail, I'll send you all the further instructions." }-
Done as suggested. :)

[Ilya Rabinovich]

Back e-mail is sent. Catch it at your side.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Back e-mail is sent. Catch it at your side." }-
I received your email and found the file in the right place. I will repeat the test somewhere today. I have only ONE computer, so I have to backup and restore several images to do the test and get back to my original system and wife is very demanding.
She doesn't understand we are saving the world. ;)

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "She doesn't understand we are saving the world. ;)" }-
It's no problem- we just need explain that we save her world and her money, this will helps ;D

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "It's no problem- we just need explain that we save her world and her money, this will helps ;D" }-
Maybe. She is always asking me why I call her a trojan. ::)

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "Maybe. She is always asking me why I call her a trojan." }-
Because she has more people inside the body? ;D

[Bubba]

OK guys and gals, get a room Please while the rest of us get back to discussing DefenseWall v2.43 and WinXPproSP3 ?

Thanks