Error message in FirstDefense pre-boot??

[Acadia]

After using FirstDefense (the REAL and complete version that can do just about anything 8) ) for almost four years now, I encountered a message that I have never seen before and I am wondering if it is of any concern.

I was rebooting between different Snapshots (those of you who have purchased the latest version of FirstDefense may not have a clue what I am even talking about) and received a message in the pre-boot BLACK screen, the message was in BOLD RED and it said: "$ISR File not found", or something very similar to that.

But still, everything continued to boot OK and work, and when I tried to boot back into my PRIMARY snapshot, I once again received the same error? message but still continued to reboot back into my usual reliable Primary.

What is going on here? Strange happenings?

Thanks all,
Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

No clue either, but it sounds like the Fall of the Roman Empire.
I'm not good in technical problems, I know FDISR well as long there are no technical issues like this one.

[WWS]

There's some discussion here...

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=158697&highlight=file

[Acadia]

Interesting link that, WWS, thank you. Is it happens, I did indeed defrag my system using PerfectDisk 8 latest build 44, this morning. I did indeed do the pre-boot defrag but PerfectDisk for some reason ALWAYS recommends that I do the pre-boot defrag for some reason. Now I have this problem with the error message (but everything appears to still be working with FD). I have used PerfectDisk and FD together for almost four years without any problems. If given a choice between PerfectDisk and FirstDefense, I will happily go back to the built-in Windows defrag but my God, what a waste of money, and how ironic that both softwares were once sold by the same company.

I am open to all suggestions, and again, thanks WWS for that educational link.

Acadia

[Acadia]

UPDATE: I played around with a suggestion, by Peter, in that thread, but it did not work, IF I UNDERSTOOD HIS SUGGESTION CORRECTLY. Have rebooted a gazillion times (ok, that is a mild exaggeration, a half-dozen or more) times between various Snapshots, turning pre-boot on and off, still getting that $ISR FILE NOT FOUND message.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

I only found this link :
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=146282

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> UPDATE: I played around with a suggestion, by Peter, in that thread, but it did not work, IF I UNDERSTOOD HIS SUGGESTION CORRECTLY. Have rebooted a gazillion times (ok, that is a mild exaggeration, a half-dozen or more) times between various Snapshots, turning pre-boot on and off, still getting that $ISR FILE NOT FOUND message.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Hi Acadia

In this situation, I would uninstall FDISR, leaving snapshots, and then reinstall it.

Pete

[EASTER]

I ran into a similar problem some time ago and ended up reinstalling FD-ISR and recreating my snapshots from good archives but i hope you don't have to resort to that.

After reinstalling i noticed my tray icon for FD-ISR Manager no longer would show and Todd offered some suggestions that lead me to look over the FD Manager's settings and sure enough my tray icon WAS NOT checked as ALWAYS SHOW, and so it was fixed.

Todd is your best source for that issue right now i think when he chimes in to read this but i suggest at least go over your FD Manager and see if everything which is usually checked is indeed checked.

Other then that i'm sure Todd can remedy that issue for you along with an explaination on what might have happened.

Regards EASTER

Hope you get it corrected again soon.

[DVD+R]

running Vista by any chance? it runs CRAP on Vista regardless of what anyone else says. Also dont use a disk cleaner or any other utillity, it doesnt know how to cope with them. Something that should have been covered before they released this not so unbreakable program. a wise addage, which should be used cautiously is "Never take anything for Granted"

[sukarof]

{QUOTE-> running Vista by any chance? it runs CRAP on Vista regardless of what anyone else says. <-QUOTE}

Sorry to break your predetermined (?) picture of Vista (I am one of the "anyone else") but I have never encountered that problem, FDISR works just fine in Vista, as do all the software I used in XP 8)
I have had that "problem" in XP now and then through the years though. I have no clue of why it appears, but since it has never done any harm I have not bothered with it. It has always disappeared sooner or later, maybe I have reinstalled FDISR for some other reason and thats why, I dont know.

[osip]

You´re not running Iolo´s System mechanic ? The reg cleaner (as well as some others) ruins $isr automatically...if so you have to exclude these keys...

[Acadia]

Thanks for suggestions and thanks for link, Erik.

More info: I am using WinXP, I do not have System Mechanic and I never use any registry cleaners.

And, YES, I did delete some Snapshots that morning, both the bootable and archive type. (Erik, I'm down to just 13 Snapshots now ;D ).

So I did both delete Snaps and a defrag (including pre-boot via PerfectDisk) in the same morning. I am tempted to simply leave this alone and not mess with it since FirstDefense appears to still be working even with the error message BUT I did not try an F1 boot yet.

Acadia

[Acadia]

More info: I now have 5 bootable snaps if you count my Primary. When I go into my $ISR folder, besides the obviously needed stuff, I see seven folders named 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, and A. Is this as it should be?

I'm not going to try anything until Todd chimes in. God, I hope I don't have to uninstall and reinstall, I have so many FirstDefense Updates thru the years I'm not sure where I would begin, would the last one from Raxco, whatever number it was, be complete and have EVERYTHING in it?

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> More info: I now have 5 bootable snaps if you count my Primary. When I go into my $ISR folder, besides the obviously needed stuff, I see seven folders named 0, 1, 2, 5, 6, 9, and A. Is this as it should be?

I'm not going to try anything until Todd chimes in. God, I hope I don't have to uninstall and reinstall, I have so many FirstDefense Updates thru the years I'm not sure where I would begin, would the last one from Raxco, whatever number it was, be complete and have EVERYTHING in it?

Acadia <-QUOTE}

IF you haven't done so, the first and most important thing is contact Raxco and see if you can still get a final complete install of version 205. Then resinstall is easy as you don't need to worry about updates.

Pete

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> running Vista by any chance? it runs CRAP on Vista regardless of what anyone else says. Also dont use a disk cleaner or any other utillity, it doesnt know how to cope with them. Something that should have been covered before they released this not so unbreakable program. a wise addage, which should be used cautiously is "Never take anything for Granted" <-QUOTE}

I've run it on my Vista image and it works fine. Also use CCleaner, and Regsupreme Pro with out a problem.

[DVD+R]

{QUOTE-> I've run it on my Vista image and it works fine. Also use CCleaner, and Regsupreme Pro with out a problem. <-QUOTE}

Last time you told me not to use a Reg Cleaner :blink: Glary Utilities was the one in question I was using and having trouble with :blink: So its a matter of which one kills it and which leaves it alone then ??? Did you figure out why Installing a XP snapshot from Vista produces that NTLDR not found error after XP has copied its files and rebooted ???

[Acadia]

Peter, you know what? I forgot that I have that final 205, in fact, it was you who helped me to get it some time ago. Still, I think I will wait for Todd, unless I feel unusually brave today and feel like doing full uninstall/install routine. Would I need my original key or serial number or whatever. All I've been able to find is a customerID, is that enough to use the 205?

Acadia

[DVD+R]

{QUOTE-> Peter, you know what? I forgot that I have that final 205, in fact, it was you who helped me to get it some time ago. Still, I think I will wait for Todd, unless I feel unusually brave today and feel like doing full uninstall/install routine. Would I need my original key or serial number or whatever. All I've been able to find is a customerID, is that enough to use the 205?

Acadia <-QUOTE}

No! the ID is just that its not a serial number unfortunately I tried it once myself and it got rejected

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter, you know what? I forgot that I have that final 205, in fact, it was you who helped me to get it some time ago. Still, I think I will wait for Todd, unless I feel unusually brave today and feel like doing full uninstall/install routine. Would I need my original key or serial number or whatever. All I've been able to find is a customerID, is that enough to use the 205?

Acadia <-QUOTE}

If you got the exe from Raxco, that should be all you need.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Last time you told me not to use a Reg Cleaner :blink: Glary Utilities was the one in question I was using and having trouble with :blink: So its a matter of which one kills it and which leaves it alone then ??? Did you figure out why Installing a XP snapshot from Vista produces that NTLDR not found error after XP has copied its files and rebooted ??? <-QUOTE}

Yes, the official position is don't use registry cleaners. So it's try them at your own risk, but I have found with RegsupremePro no problem. I've tried others and had bad experiences in general.

As to the 2nd question, since this isn't something I've any interest in doing, I candidly haven't spent any time trying. I have a Vista image with a vista FDISR snapshot, and when I want to play I just restore it, and make the machine a pure vista machine.

Pete

[WWS]

Might be a good idea to have a recent "image" available in case of any problem reinstalling FDISR.
One time my reinstallation didn't work, I got out of that jam using my Acronis image.
Turned out it was my fault on the reinstallation by not chosing to overwrite the installation files.
Wound up with an expired trial version.

[Acadia]

Ok, fellows, here's the scoop: I went ahead and completely uninstalled FirstDefense except, of course, for all of the Snapshots. Then I reinstalled using the very last version that Raxco released, the 205 that Peter and I talked about up above. I had the install overwrite everything.

STILL GETTING THE ERROR MESSAGE. Now what?

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Ok, fellows, here's the scoop: I went ahead and completely uninstalled FirstDefense except, of course, for all of the Snapshots. Then I reinstalled using the very last version that Raxco released, the 205 that Peter and I talked about up above. I had the install overwrite everything.

STILL GETTING THE ERROR MESSAGE. Now what?

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Your going to hate me for this. But what I'd do is 1) image the disk. 2) create archives of each snapshot 3) completely nuke FDISR, snapshots and all. 4) clean the disk up, and reinstall FDISR. Create a snapshot from the primary and see if you have the problem. If so, yell for TODD. If not start restoring the archives one by one, and see if you can find out what the problem is.


Pete

[Acadia]

Peter, what do you mean by step 4, clean the disk up?

Acadia

[lucas1985]

He means format and start from scratch or doing a clean install of FD-ISR with no snapshots or other debris from the previous install.

[Acadia]

Will completely nuking FirstDefense also get rid of the Archives, if so, how can I restore them? Or does completely nuking FirstDefense only wipe out the Bootable Snapshots while leave the Archives alone.

Acadia

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> IF you haven't done so, the first and most important thing is contact Raxco and see if you can still get a final complete install of version 205. Then resinstall is easy as you don't need to worry about updates.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Available here,near the end

RAXCO (http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/updates.cfm#FDISR)

[EASTER]

This method is extreme but i had no backup image to turn to when i released a mean file infector on my FD-ISR system. I salvaged as many good unaffected files and programs with the program XYPloyer which can circumvent the file restrictions built into FD-ISR, so i was able to copy/cut off still unaffected files to another hard drive to use later again.

It was a major time consumong effort because i had 9 snapshots at the time and all but a couple were rendered unbootable, but XYPloyer penetrated the permissions of FD so i could rescue good files/programs.

Again, since you're not apparently victim of something this extreme i would turn to Todd of Leapfrog for advice, he may have a simple solution for you like he did me on the tray icon ordeal.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> He means format and start from scratch or doing a clean install of FD-ISR with no snapshots or other debris from the previous install. <-QUOTE}

No I didn't. I meant, make sure there are no remnants of FDISR, run something like CCleaner, and clean the registry.

[lucas1985]

That was my second guess ;) (doing a clean install of FD-ISR with no snapshots or other debris from the previous install)

[Acadia]

You know, guys, I just thought of a third thing that I did that morning; not only did I defrag and delete a Snapshot, I also renamed a Snapshot. :wacko: I better not do anything more; hopefully Todd will chime in. Actually, I wonder if there would be any harm just keeping it as it is; I can live with an error message as long as there are no consequences.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> You know, guys, I just thought of a third thing that I did that morning; not only did I defrag and delete a Snapshot, I also renamed a Snapshot. :wacko: I better not do anything more; hopefully Todd will chime in. Actually, I wonder if there would be any harm just keeping it as it is; I can live with an error message as long as there are no consequences.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Test your preboot rollover.

[Leapfrog Software]

Greetings Acadia,

If you are still getting the " "$ISR File not found", or something very similar to that.", Let's get a set of logs from you. If you don't already have my email address, contact me here at this LSI contact form (http://leapfrogsoftware.com/company_info/contact/) or call the number at that page. I don't want to post my email or any form of it for the spybots to grab.

I am going to ask you for some logs. You can find these from the GUI in Help, About, Support Info. Just zip em up and I will give you an address to send to.

[Acadia]

Thanks a bunch, Todd, as soon as I get home I shall do that. :)

Acadia

[Acadia]

Ok, dumb question guys, Todd contacted me and told me to run a chkdsk. Question: does it matter if Anti-Executable is enabled or not for chkdsk. Thanks.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Ok, dumb question guys, Todd contacted me and told me to run a chkdsk. Question: does it matter if Anti-Executable is enabled or not for chkdsk. Thanks.

Acadia <-QUOTE}
I don't think so, chkdsk is authorized by AE during its installation.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Ok, dumb question guys, Todd contacted me and told me to run a chkdsk. Question: does it matter if Anti-Executable is enabled or not for chkdsk. Thanks.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Plus it won't run from with in Windows. You need to reboot and it runs at the same point the offline defrag runs. To be even cleaner you can run it from a Windows XP disk. Just go into repair and run it from the recovery console.

[ErikAlbert]

The only thing that stops chkdsk from running in FDISR is a frozen snapshot.
You have to unfreeze, before you run chkdsk, otherwise chkdsk will be considered as an unwanted change.

I just ran chkdsk with AE on and everything was normal.

[Acadia]

Thanks, guys, I ran CHKDSK with AE disabled; no problems found. Tested the FirstDefense F1 pre-boot screen, it worked too. So, everything appears to be working 100% yet I am still getting that message. Awaiting further instructions from Todd. 8)

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Thanks, guys, I ran CHKDSK with AE disabled; no problems found. Tested the FirstDefense F1 pre-boot screen, it worked too. So, everything appears to be working 100% yet I am still getting that message. Awaiting further instructions from Todd. 8)

Acadia <-QUOTE}
That's OK too. Keep us informed, because I'm also interested in the solution you will get. I never had these problems, but what happens to others, can happen to me too one day. :)

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> Ok, dumb question guys, Todd contacted me and told me to run a chkdsk. Question: does it matter if Anti-Executable is enabled or not for chkdsk. Thanks.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Just a suggestion -do the full 5 part chkdsk that restores bad sectors and file system errors apart from the others.

Right click on C drive-properties-tools-error checking.

Use a little app called Smart Close to close down unwanted apps. etc automatically,but remain within Windows.
This will give best results-also useful for defragmenting

[Acadia]

Well, here's the latest. Todd suggested that I do a COMPLETE uninstall and reinstall, which I did, took over two hours.

Reinstalled creating only the Secondary which FD does automatically. Normal bootup is ok, but still getting the $ISR File not Found when changing between the two Snapshots.

Hmmmm, I have NEVER used my ShadowProtect to recover an image. Maybe its time to restore my rather old image and then use a recent Archive to restore my sytem? Opinions?

Thanks guys, and thanks Todd,
Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE->

Hmmmm, I have NEVER used my ShadowProtect to recover an image. Maybe its time to restore my rather old image and then use a recent Archive to restore my sytem? Opinions?

<-QUOTE}

Image your system first. That way you can get back to here. But then yes what you are saying works. I've done that from recent images, old images.

Acadia, I have archives of both my primary and secondary, and I've gone with clean install, installing FDISR, creating secondary from archive, booting to it, and then updating primary from archive. Works,works,works.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

Acadia,
FirstDefense-ISR is used constantly on-line, confronted with all kinds of software and malware and even different OS.
It's almost a miracle that FDISR can do its job in such an environment, day in day out and hardly fails.
That's why I'm not surprised that FDISR fails and that happened 2 or 3 times since I bought it, each time caused by a legitimate software.

That's why you need ShadowProtect in case FirstDefense-ISR fails.
ShadowProtect is NEVER on-line : Recovery CD and External Harddisk, which are hardly used in practice.
No wonder SP never fails, it can ALWAYS do its job in the best circumstances, while FDISR gets all the punches.

Since September 2007, I changed everything and I work almost backwards, where ShadowProtect is #1 instead of FDISR.
I don't start with snapshots anymore like I did in the past.
I start with images, then archives, then snapshots.
Other users start with snapshots, then archives, then images, which works also of course.

You don't have to use my method, but you have to use ShadowProtect as backup of FDISR. You depend too much on FDISR in my opinion. :)

[Acadia]

SUCCESS!! Spent some time on the phone with Todd and got it fixed. Some remnants were not uninstalling and kept coming back messing up the new install. We're not sure where they were coming from.

But it got me thinking and I have a question for those of you who are familiar with Faronic's Anti-Executable. Understand, this may be a dumb question but who knows?

This problem did not start with an uninstall and reinstall, it started when I deleted a couple Snapshots. Many months ago I installed Anti-Executable. It of course would have included FD on the white list. Then I added ALL FD folders onto the Exempted Folders configuration of AE. This included folders 0,1,2,5,6,9, and A. Months later when I deleted some of those Snapshots, the Folders containing those Snapshots would have still been contained in the Exempted feature of AE. Even though I got rid of those Snapshots, would having the folders for those Snapshots exempted in AE have somehow kept the empty folders from being deleted from the $ISR? Would it have somehow brought the empty 0,1,2,5,6,9,A folders back when I uninstalled and reinstalled? Remember, whenever you re-enable AE it redoes its stuff with whatever changes you made to the system. But what if those changes were also included in the Exempted list? Does having a program in the Exempted list prevent AE from redoing changes for that particular program, at least preserving the folders even if not what was contained in them?

Reason I am suspicious: Last night I removed all of the FirstDefense Exemptions from AE. Then Todd call and we uninstalled/reinstalled again. THIS TIME IT WORKED.

AE was disabled thruout this entire process but could having all those FD exemptions in AE somehow have interfered? Again, after I removed all of the FD exemptions from AE, everything started working properly.

Food for thought, anyway, MANY THANKS TO TODD. Todd I wish you the best of success on your new endeavors.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

THis could take us a bit off topic, but why did you do anything with ISR folders in AE.

When I had AE on in all it's glory(max Protection) ISR folders never cropped up or gave any trouble.

Don't remember, but since copy protection was on, I might have shutdown AE while updating archives.

Pete

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> ... but why did you do anything with ISR folders in AE. <-QUOTE}
Peter, I no longer remember my train of thought. I probably just wanted to make absolutely sure that AE would not mess with FD.

If what I posted above is really what happened, AE did eventually mess with FD but not during the use of FD, but instead when I wanted to delete Snaps. It messed with FD, if I am right, but in a way that I would have never thought. Moral of the story, and again, if I am right: don't ever put a program into the AE exempted list that you think in the future you might want to delete or uninstall unless you can remember that it is there and first remove it from that list.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

Actually the real moral of the story is to disable AE, when making changes on the system, that involve copying,deleting, removing software etc. AE is effective, but a royal pain, which is why it is not on my system.

Pete

[kennyboy]

Another real moral to the story, is that when buying software, go to a company like Leapfrog (if you can find one)
The support from Todd and Company is simply outstanding, and I am sure we are all very grateful.

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> Another real moral to the story, is that when buying software, go to a company like Leapfrog (if you can find one)
The support from Todd and Company is simply outstanding, and I am sure we are all very grateful. <-QUOTE}

You can say that again.

Todd & Leapfrog are a top act bar none, he got me over an issue once that was so simple it was right under my nose.

Plus FD-ISR (Genuine) CANNOT BE DEFEATED

Oh something can fudge your snapshots/archives and FD-ISR program itself left unattended, but taken the forethought of saving archives to an alternative disk and reinstalling FD, and PRESTO! Instant Recovery as though nothing ever happened.

This stuff is World-Class folks, Legendary AFAIK, and theres no better alternative i've seen since or after.

EASTER

[ErikAlbert]

I don't use "Exempted Folders" in AE, but I use "Trusted Applications", which contains a list of executables of FDISR in order to get a copy/update without errors.

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> I don't use "Exempted Folders" in AE, but I use "Trusted Applications", which contains a list of executables of FDISR in order to get a copy/update without errors. <-QUOTE}

Thanks for that tip Erik, i know your one of the first ones to successfully meld the two mega apps into a working combo without problems.

This seems totally unbeatable.

Malware makers are having tizzy fits because their best laid plans are being knocked down cold at almost every turn for XP. They really need to get a second occupation or hobby ;D

They cannot succeed but for moments at a time, and that's a lot of wasted effort and time.

[Acadia]

Erik, if AE was indeed what caused all of this, I believe that if I, like you, had used Trusted instead of Exempted, that I would have be OK.

Peter, I had AE disabled thru out this entire process. My theory is that, being disabled, it allowed FirstDefense to do its thing. But you know how whenever you re-enable AE, it checks your system for any new changes and adds or removes those changes from its whitelist. Well, I had all those FD folders in the Exempted list; could that have prevented those folders from being removed from the whitelist when I tried to remove the folders for those particular Snaps, and also when I later on tried to completely uninstall FD. And in preventing those folders from being removed from the whitelist would AE actually somehow "bring those folders back" when I tried to remove them even though the folders were now empty, having been emptied by FD?

Who knows, I just know that when I cleared the AE Exempted list, everything immediately started working, that is, I was now allowed to delete Snaps and completely uninstall FD without the "Exempted" folders coming back.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

Acadia,
If you put all these executables of FDISR under "Trusted", you can use AE again.
You have to "export" these executables to a file and keep that file along with the installation file of AE.
If you don't "export" them and you have to re-install AE, you have to type these executable all over again.
After "export", you can "import" these executables again after installing AE without typing them again.

I have such a file called, Anti-Executable Trusted Applications.fzx and I import that file after installing AE.

[Acadia]

Erik, I've got a question for you.

First, thank you for post number 388 here:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=171576&page=16

My question: on that list from that post, the last three located in the \0\ folder, how do you know of their existence? I am unable to open those folders. Thanks.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik, I've got a question for you.

First, thank you for post number 388 here:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=171576&page=16

My question: on that list from that post, the last three located in the \0\ folder, how do you know of their existence? I am unable to open those folders. Thanks.

Acadia <-QUOTE}
I had the same problem, but after a few copy/updates with errors, AE mentioned each time, which executable of FDISR it was (AE always shows a popup window).
So I wrote them down on a sheet of paper and then I did a manual update.
After awhile AE didn't report anything anymore and that was the end of story.

If you have winVISTA, it might be possible that the list isn't complete, but AE will tell you that.
There are probably better ways to find these executables, but my knowledge is very poor. According my readings there are special explorers, that allow you to open these folders. :)

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> According my readings there are special explorers, that allow you to open these folders. :) <-QUOTE}
Yup, see here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=176343)
Example (http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_free.zip) (ZIP download)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Yup, see here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=176343)
Example (http://www.xyplorer.com/download/xyplorer_free.zip) (ZIP download) <-QUOTE}
Voila, Lucas knows everything. :)

[Acadia]

Thanks, Lucas (and Erik). 8)

Acadia

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Voila, Lucas knows everything. :) <-QUOTE}
LOL, I'd wish that was true ;D
{QUOTE-> Thanks, Lucas (and Erik). 8) <-QUOTE}
You're welcome.

[EASTER]

I found the same really useful security using AE and is why i asked Eric to share how and what he used to get them both to gel so nicely.

Glad to see it's still appreciated.