Firefox and DEP

[WSFuser]

Is anyone successfully running Firefox with DEP fully enabled?

When I tried, Talkback appeared. I guess Firefox crashed.

[FadeAway]

I'm running:

Win XP SP2, AMD Athlon 64 3500+
DEP fully enabled for all programs and services except Windows Explorer
FF 2.0.0.13 ABP,RefControl, Customize Google

No issues here

[Pedro]

If i'm not mistaken, remove Talkback.

[FadeAway]

I always uninstall Talkback

[WSFuser]

So its just the Talkback that incompatible with DEP?

Thanks.

[Firebytes]

-{ Quote: "Is anyone successfully running Firefox with DEP fully enabled?

When I tried, Talkback appeared. I guess Firefox crashed." }-

I was running FF with DEP (hardware supported) protecting all programs and had no problems with FF at all (XP SP2).

I have since gone back to DEP for Windows programs/services only though due to some other programs not running correctly. I would have left DEP protecting all programs and just opted out the ones I needed to if DEP had given any indication that it was blocking the program, etc. but I only found out DEP was the problem by just trying opting the program out. I didn't need the extra hassle of one more thing to check if a program wouldn't work. I thought DEP was supposed to give a pop up when it blocked a program but I never got one.

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "So its just the Talkback that incompatible with DEP?

Thanks." }-
Yep. Default FF installation that is, i can't account for all extensions out there ;D

@Firebytes: WSFuser is talking about AlwaysOn i believe, which is only accessed by editing the boot.ini file. I think you're referring to OptOut, which you can choose from a GUI window.
In AlwaysOn, there are no exceptions, software must comply.

[farmerlee]

I use the default firefox install with talkback and have DEP enabled for all programs and services and i've never seen this problem.

[Pedro]

farmerlee, you're referring to this "enabled for all programs" right?

[farmerlee]

Yup, i've enabled that setting ever since cpus started coming out with hardware DEP.

[Pedro]

Ok, lets work with the picture then :P
That option is called OptOut. Programs packed with certain, well, packers, will bypass DEP.
http://blog.fabriceroux.com/index.php/2007/02/26/hardware_dep_has_a_backdoor?blog=1

So, if you don't want exceptions, or some auto exception (which is wonderful from a security perspective), the best option is AlwaysOn. That is only chosen by editing the boot.ini file, substituting "OptOut" for "AlwaysOn" (after noexecute).
-{ Quote: "To configure DEP to switch to the AlwaysOn policy by using the Boot.ini file, follow these steps:
1. Click Start, right-click My Computer, and then click Properties.
2. Click the Advanced tab, and then click Settings under the Startup and Recovery field.
3. In the System startup field, click Edit. The Boot.ini file opens in Notepad.
4. In Notepad, click Find on the Edit menu.
5. In the Find what box, type /noexecute, and then click Find Next.
6. In the Find dialog box, click Cancel.
7. Replace policy_level with AlwaysOn.

WARNING Make sure that you enter the text accurately. The Boot.ini file switch should now read:
/noexecute=AlwaysOn
8. In Notepad, click Save on the File menu.
9. Click OK two times.
10. Restart the computer." }-
http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?kbid=875352&product=windowsxpsp2

There really isn't any whitelist, everything must comply. Opera does not run under this mode (ie, Opera does not run with DEP at all).

One good utility to see what programs have DEP on is our good buddy Process Explorer. You have to add the column "DEP".

It is in this mode, like DEP really on, that Firefox won't open with the talkback extension.

On a side note, i took that pic from MS site, and if you look at it you will notice that message on the bottom
-{ Quote: "Your computer's processor does not support hardware-based DEP. However, Windows can use DEP software to help prevent some types of attacks." }-
This means 1 of 2 things: your CPU really doesn't have the NX-bit, or that option isn't enabled in the BIOS (it happened to me anyway).

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "
http://blog.fabriceroux.com/index.php/2007/02/26/hardware_dep_has_a_backdoor?blog=1
" }-
I just noticed this edit:
-{ Quote: "Opera from version 9.50 alpha and up is now DEP compliant. (FYI: it uses UPX to pack its executable)" }-
So, what's the current version of Opera, and can anyone check if Opera now runs ok?

[MikeNAS]

-{ Quote: "I just noticed this edit:

So, what's the current version of Opera, and can anyone check if Opera now runs ok?" }-

Latest "stable" Opera version is 9.27. I tested Opera 9.50 Beta 1 and Process Explorer says that DEP is on. 2.0.0.13 Firefox (Default installation) DEP is on too.

[innerpeace]

Here's is a simple little program to see if you system supports hardware-based DEP :thumb:.
http://www.grc.com/securable.htm

[Pedro]

-{ Quote: "Latest "stable" Opera version is 9.27. I tested Opera 9.50 Beta 1 and Process Explorer says that DEP is on. 2.0.0.13 Firefox (Default installation) DEP is on too." }-
Ah, so next Opera will be compatible, but the present stable is still incompatible?

[MikeNAS]

-{ Quote: "Ah, so next Opera will be compatible, but the present stable is still incompatible?" }-

I didn't test that :D