Prolong the life of HDD’s

[GroomLake]

Most failures of hard drives is caused by powering them up when they are cold. It is far better to never turn them off. Western Digital has confirmed this fact. It is far better to just let them spin then turn them off.

[FastGame]

Do you have a link ? because I don't agree.......

[jonyjoe81]

I always turn off my computer sometimes 3 or 4 times a day. I turn it on, do what I got to do then turn it off. To me a computer is like a toaster, why keep it on all day, if I only have to use for 30 minutes?

What will kill your hard drive is heat, and even then it might take years to render it useless. Everytime I buy a hard drive, I always buy a fan for it (cost 10.00) and screw it to the bottom of the drive. That will drop the temperature of the hard drive by at least 10 degrees.

Of the 20 hard drives that I've had over the years, I've only had 3 fail, 2 120gb IBM deskstars (which each failed exactly 12 months after I bought them) and 1 WD 80gb which was about 3 years old. I couldn't pinpoint a cause for failure, but this happen before I started installing fan's on them.

[GroomLake]

WD recommends that hard drives be powered off when not in use, although it is safe to leave a hard drive running continuously. The hard drive should be placed away from any electronic devices and in a well ventilated area to allow airflow to the hard drive. Western Digital also recommends that the drive's power supply is connected through a surge protector. In the case of a power surge, or brown/black out, the hard drive's sensitive electrical components will not be damaged.

The initial power-on process is generally harder on the internal components of a hard drive than spinning for extended periods. However, Western Digital drives are designed to handle either scenario. Most users outgrow their drive before repeated turning on and off becomes a problem. Turning on the drive a few times per day is considered normal usage and should not pose any problems. If a drive is turned on and off excessively on a daily basis, this could affect the longevity of the hard drive’s components.

[Hairy Coo]

So nowadays it really doesnt matter one way or the other-its splitting hairs.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> WD recommends that hard drives be powered off when not in use, although it is safe to leave a hard drive running continuously.

<-QUOTE}

I wish they'd put their money where their mouth is. The precise reason, I didn't buy Western Digitial external USB drives, is they automatically turn on when the computer comes on. Then on some of them you can turn them off. DUMB.

[Bob D]

{QUOTE-> ....It is far better to never turn them off. Western Digital has confirmed this fact... <-QUOTE}
{QUOTE-> WD recommends that hard drives be powered off when not in use <-QUOTE}
No wonder I'm confused.
The debate continues...

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> I wish they'd put their money where their mouth is. The precise reason, I didn't buy Western Digitial external USB drives, is they automatically turn on when the computer comes on. Then on some of them you can turn them off. DUMB. <-QUOTE}
Pete
Much better to get an eSATA case with switch and insert SATA drive with 3 or 5 year warranty,but no doubt you had specific reasons!

[Kerodo]

{QUOTE-> Most failures of hard drives is caused by powering them up when they are cold. It is far better to never turn them off. Western Digital has confirmed this fact. It is far better to just let them spin then turn them off. <-QUOTE}
My experience leads me to agree with you on this. I have 2 HDs here, I think they are WD's, and I have been running both now 24/7 for over 6 years without a single problem.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Pete
Much better to get an eSATA case with switch and insert SATA drive with 3 or 5 year warranty,but no doubt you had specific reasons! <-QUOTE}

Yep. Bascially I wanted to buy something out of the box I could plug in. Ended up buying one the Lacie's that has said switch and it has been fine.

[chrisretusn]

WD recommends
{QUOTE-> The hard drive should be placed away from any electronic devices and in a well ventilated area to allow airflow to the hard drive. <-QUOTE}
I think I'll take all of my hard drives out of the computer casings with all of those other electronic devices inside, make custom extension cables so I can and screw a fan to the bottom of each one. ;) ;) ;) ;) ;)

[tepe2]

{QUOTE-> I wish they'd put their money where their mouth is. The precise reason, I didn't buy Western Digitial external USB drives, is they automatically turn on when the computer comes on. Then on some of them you can turn them off. DUMB. <-QUOTE}
I have WD MyBook ext. It does not automatically turn on when the computer comes on. I have to push the power button to turn it on.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

I can't speak which is better, I can only tell from experience. I have drives that date to 1999 (including a 10GB HD). Never powered down. They all work well, touch wood, knock on hill, salt and pepper, and a black cat.

I would recommend these three things:

- UPS / surge protector
- Cool temperature
- Keep dust off the drives

Seems to me that a powered on drive has less chance of catching dust, rust, mold etc due to being at constant temp and rotating.

Mrk

[GroomLake]

We have 350 hard drives here at the data center. We never tune them off.
In our study of failed drives we found that overall the ones that eventually fail are the ones that were the least used. In other words the heavy hitters last the longest.

[Tony]

What about using the sleep function in Vista, does this have the same effect on the hard drive as powering off - powering up a hard drive??

[SnTholiday]

The sleep funtion in Vista turns the HD off, and if you check the advanced power options you may also find that Vista powers off the HD after so many minutes. Click on advanced power settings and check the HD option.

[GroomLake]

Believe it or not the power cable connectors and HDD cables give us great concern. Over the years as a suspect drive intermittently fails or goes off line and/or cannot be detected it is in all probability a wiring problem. We started soldering the wires in the power connectors before connecting them and are now using round cables instead of flat ribbon cables. This action has saved considerable drive down time.

Because we are approximately 600 feet under ground we do have some protection from cosmic rays and gamma bursts unlike you boys on the surface.

[innerpeace]

{QUOTE-> Believe it or not the power cable connectors and HDD cables give us great concern. Over the years as a suspect drive intermittently fails or goes off line and/or cannot be detected it is in all probability a wiring problem. We started soldering the wires in the power connectors before connecting them and are now using round cables instead of flat ribbon cables. This action has saved considerable drive down time. <-QUOTE}
I just bought a set of the round IDE cables myself. I wish I knew about them a long time ago.

{QUOTE-> Because we are approximately 600 feet under ground we do have some protection from cosmic rays and gamma bursts unlike you boys on the surface. <-QUOTE}
Should you be posting this information? I just made the connection between this sentence and your screen name :lurking:.

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Believe it or not the power cable connectors and HDD cables give us great concern. <-QUOTE}
I've been reading a bit on disk failure (http://storagemojo.com/2008/02/24/why-do-storage-systems-fail/) and it seems that you're right:
{QUOTE-> Physical interconnect failures are a significant contributor - anywhere from 27-68% - of storage subsystem failures. <-QUOTE}
{QUOTE-> Because we are approximately 600 feet under ground we do have some protection from cosmic rays and gamma bursts unlike you boys on the surface. <-QUOTE}
Working on a military facility?

[Tony]

{QUOTE-> The sleep funtion in Vista turns the HD off, and if you check the advanced power options you may also find that Vista powers off the HD after so many minutes. Click on advanced power settings and check the HD option. <-QUOTE}

Thanks SnTHoliday, it was set to turn hd off after 20 mins.
I have now changed it to never:thumb:

[markymoo]

this pc here has been running for 4 months solid 24/7 and its never gone to sleep. the drives are fine. what hurts drives is powering up and down. just let em spin. my drives will last a long time. they raptors they come with a 5 year guarantee :D

[Stijnson]

Why leave a pc on constantly when you hardly use it? Just to keep the hard drives in shape?

[markymoo]

@Stijnson
Folding@Home

[Stijnson]

{QUOTE-> @Stijnson
Folding@Home <-QUOTE}

What does this mean? :)

[markymoo]

Stijnson
http://folding.stanford.edu/

[Stijnson]

{QUOTE-> Stijnson
http://folding.stanford.edu/ <-QUOTE}

Thanks for the link Markymoo, but I'm not sure what your point is (I guess I'm not that sharp today -:)). Care to elaborate?

[GroomLake]

It is a big deal around here when an HDD goes south. You see we can’t send it back to the manufacture for guaranteed replacement. We actually take them apart and remove the disk platters and incinerate them.

How do you boys feel about sending a drive for repair or replacement with your personal and secret information on it?

[markymoo]

@Stijnson

Its all there in the link and FAQ. Software runs on pc simulate protein folding which is what proteins do. If proteins don't fold right, disease, cancers happen. You helping scientists, doctors and the world fight disease by solving how proteins fold and why. The results get uploaded. Millions do it. Folding is very cpu intensive.

{QUOTE->
It's amazing that not only do proteins self-assemble -- fold -- but they do so amazingly quickly: some as fast as a millionth of a second. While this time is very fast on a person's timescale, it's remarkably long for computers to simulate. In fact, it takes about a day to simulate a nanosecond (1/1,000,000,000 of a second). Unfortunately, proteins fold on the tens of microsecond timescale (10,000 nanoseconds). Thus, it would take 10,000 CPU days to simulate folding -- i.e. it would take 30 CPU years! That's a long time to wait for one result! <-QUOTE}

[herbalist]

{QUOTE-> Most failures of hard drives is caused by powering them up when they are cold. It is far better to never turn them off. Western Digital has confirmed this fact. It is far better to just let them spin then turn them off. <-QUOTE}
Agreed.
My old 98 box runs 24/7, has for several years with very few shut downs. The original 5.1GB hard drive still serves as my C drive. In that time, I've used up 2 monitors, 6 keyboards, a floppy drive, a CD drive, and several mice, but the internal drive just keeps going. The same applies to my external drive. It's on its 3rd year of nearly non-stop running.

The only hard drives I've had fail were used ones obtained from old PCs that have sat idle.
Rick

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> How do you boys feel about sending a drive for repair or replacement with your personal and secret information on it? <-QUOTE}
I wipe (http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/SecureErase.shtml) the disk contents and I'm fine.

[GroomLake]

What if the drive cannot be accessed to wipe it clean? Did you ever have that sisuation?

[twl845]

After the initial boot up in the morning, I put it on standby when I leave the box for a half an hour or more. I always shut it down if I leave the house, and when I hit the hay. :)

[GroomLake]

Assumptions:
365 days in a year
You leave the house 3 times a week
You put your computer on standby 2 times a day

That would be 365 + 365*3 + 365*2 = 2190

How long do expect your HDD to last powering it up and down 2190 times a year on average?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE->
How do you boys feel about sending a drive for repair or replacement with your personal and secret information on it? <-QUOTE}

Well in my case, I just did that. Had one of my machines at home, and while there swapped out my D drive. They copied everything from the old machine to the new one. But I know these folks, know how they work, and didn't give it a second thought.

Also while all my "data" was there, in terms of my business, etc, none of it is what I'd call "secret" Given I wouldn't do it with 99% of the vendors out there, but in these case no sweat.

Pete

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> I have WD MyBook ext. It does not automatically turn on when the computer comes on. I have to push the power button to turn it on. <-QUOTE}
I don't. I have 3 WD MyBook drives; they power up when I start my computers and power down when I shut down the computers. I can't recall the last time I touched the power button on the MyBook drives.

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> It is a big deal around here when an HDD goes south.... <-QUOTE}
What? You mean to tell us that, with all their advanced technology, the aliens can't fix a lousy HDD? :D

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> What if the drive cannot be accessed to wipe it clean? Did you ever have that sisuation? <-QUOTE}
Never happened to me. DBAN would be a second option.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> Assumptions:
365 days in a year
You leave the house 3 times a week
You put your computer on standby 2 times a day

That would be 365 + 365*3 + 365*2 = 2190

How long do expect your HDD to last powering it up and down 2190 times a year on average? <-QUOTE}
I weigh that against the remote possibility that while I'm out we might get a thunder and lightning storm, or the electricity might go out and come back on with a spike. I have an APC surge protector, but that won't protect you against lightning. Actually I probably leave the house 10 times a week, and put it on standby 4 or 5 times a day. My old Compaq is 7 years old and my Dell is 4 years old. No failures yet. My stuff is imaged on an external drive. ;)

[aigle]

Not applicable so for desktops, but in case of laptops Power Options are frequently used to conserve battery. HD is turned off after a certain period of inactivity.

If I understood it correctly, I read somewhere that for a HD there is a life time limit of turning off and on cycles. System info software even tell about the no. of these cycles.

Recently there were reports about ubuntu causing damage to HDs due to this.

[tepe2]

{QUOTE-> they power up when I start my computers and power down when I shut down the computers. <-QUOTE}
Prius, I believe mine did the same in the beginning. But I cannot remember what I did to stop that from happening. Whatever I did I did it by accident, but since I dont use it that often I am happy the way it work now. So I dont want to change back.

[Huupi]

Interesting question about which parts are failing most often : a) is it in general mechanical failures [hardware,platters,heads] b) internal software failures[controllers etc.]or simply disconnected wires inside ?

Are there somewhere statistics about ?

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> Interesting question about which parts are failing most often : a) is it in general mechanical failures [hardware,platters,heads] b) internal software failures[controllers etc.]or simply disconnected wires inside ?

Are there somewhere statistics about ? <-QUOTE}
The HDs I've owned failed because of of the controler board, which raises the question why they aren't available from the HD website. I heard that they can be replaced by another one from the same class, I don't know if it is true. Going back to something that was said before innerpeace said he just got a set of round IDE cables excuse my ignorants just what is special about round cables aside from offering lower air restance. Does the round cable offer lower restance or increased data flow and better insolation?

[Hairy Coo]

Gives better airflow and less cable clutter,otherwise exactly the same

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> Gives better airflow and less cable clutter,otherwise exactly the same <-QUOTE}
Thank you

[Hairy Coo]

Carver,

re replacing the controller board,it seems a few have succeeded,but it would be tricky and to be tried only as a last resort,like the danger of complete loss of data.

[Huupi]

Since its always painfull to recover a failed disk if at all possible,for safety i guess better way is at least is to use RAID solutions,starting from Raid 1 and up.In server environments its common practice to hot swap dying disks,without losing data.And with ever lowering prices of ext. disk its for us as desktop users very interesting to safeguard at hardware level.

A good UPS system[spikes,brownburn,powerloss,lightning!?!?]wil get you some more peace of mind i guess.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Gives better airflow and less cable clutter,otherwise exactly the same <-QUOTE}

Thats important. My machines have the round cables, plus the drive cages can hold 5 drives, but only have 3 some there is good space between them. Finally the cages sit right behind the air intake fan. All adds up to cool drives.

[jfd15]

{QUOTE-> Not applicable so for desktops, but in case of laptops Power Options are frequently used to conserve battery. HD is turned off after a certain period of inactivity.

If I understood it correctly, I read somewhere that for a HD there is a life time limit of turning off and on cycles. System info software even tell about the no. of these cycles.

Recently there were reports about ubuntu causing damage to HDs due to this. <-QUOTE}


yea, i read something like this...i think if you access the S.M.A.R.T. data in
a program like HD Tune, there's one data value that needs to be watched if you want to estimate how much longer your hdd will last, i dont remember
which one it was though..

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> yea, i read something like this...i think if you access the S.M.A.R.T. data in
a program like HD Tune, there's one data value that needs to be watched if you want to estimate how much longer your hdd will last, i dont remember
which one it was though.. <-QUOTE}
I have a diagnostic tool by Western digital (I have 2 Western Digital 120 gig in a Raid 0) that uses S.M.A.R.T. data, I just looked at the data just a minute ago and I still wonder when my drives will quit.

[GroomLake]

If a drive is turned on and off excessively on a daily basis, this could affect the longevity of the hard drive’s components. I recommend new drives every three years.

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> If a drive is turned on and off excessively on a daily basis, this could affect the longevity of the hard drive’s components. I recommend new drives every three years. <-QUOTE}
What do you call excessive..4 times a day, would "Stand by" mode be preferable to shutting the computer off.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> What do you call excessive..4 times a day, would "Stand by" mode be preferable to shutting the computer off. <-QUOTE}
As I said in an earlier post in this thread, I use Standby all day, and shut down when I go out or to bed. ;)

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> I recommend new drives every three years. <-QUOTE}
Proactive replacements? I just don't see it provided one has some sort of decent imaging solution that is utilized on a regular basis. I mean, you could easily buy a new drive that goes dead immediately after installation & restoration or dies within a few days thereafter.

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> I have a diagnostic tool by Western digital (I have 2 Western Digital 120 gig in a Raid 0) that uses S.M.A.R.T. data, I just looked at the data just a minute ago and I still wonder when my drives will quit. <-QUOTE}

Have found the manufacturers tools much more reliable than say HD Tune ,which is constantly on the verge of predicting a disaster.
The diagnostic tools will or should also be able to repair bad sectors and inform of platter quality.
If the bad sectors become more frequent and cant be repaired-time for a new disk.

I dont worry about how often I turn on and off-if it happens thats it.
I am not really concerned whether the disks last 2.5 years or 3 years,by that time its generally advantageous in any case to buy new ones,due to technology advances.

Generally I just shut down at night,but plenty of restarts,which of course do not turn off the disks.Just be protected by a good backup system.

[GroomLake]

{QUOTE-> What do you call excessive..4 times a day, would "Stand by" mode be preferable to shutting the computer off. <-QUOTE}

I would say for times a day is pushing it. That is 1460 times a year. The drives WD drives we buy have a 5 year guarantee but we can’t take a chance. When we get them we burn them in for a week before they pass our QA.

What about the other components of your system? You are brutal on them. As systems evolve they will not be able to take this abuse.

Use “stand by” mode but change the settings to NOT turn the disks off.

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> Have found the manufacturers tools much more reliable than say HD Tune <-QUOTE}
I had a tech support guy for xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx tell me to use a Hitachi HD diagnostic to send a report of the condition on my Western Digtal HDs, and the report showed I had no files on my HDs :o

{QUOTE-> Just be protected by a good backup system. <-QUOTE}
Tonight I did a full backup with Acronis.

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> The drives WD drives we buy have a 5 year guarantee but we can’t take a chance. <-QUOTE}
RE2 drives?
{QUOTE-> When we get them we burn them in for a week before they pass our QA. <-QUOTE}
To spot early failures?

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> I had a tech support guy for xxxxxx-xxxxxxxxx tell me to use a Hitachi HD diagnostic to send a report of the condition on my Western Digtal HDs, and the report showed I had no files on my HDs :o
Tonight I did a full backup with Acronis. <-QUOTE}

Something wrong-what did the Western Digital Data Lifeguard Dignostics have to say?
There are tests for errors and a report-usually some bad sectors can be repaired-but as I said if the bad sectors keep growing,you should get a new disk.
You should perform these tests for safety and save the report log-this should be useful-cant understand what the tech support guy was talking about-quite likely there were no files because you used the Hitachi diagnostics.

[C.S.J]

its caused by the paranoid, not by power ups and shut downs.

excessive antivirus scans, excessive defragmenting, excessive disk utilities, excessive formats/restores.

you get the point.....

excessive HardDrive usage, will wear it down in comparision to normal usage.

its basic stuff.

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE-> WD recommends that hard drives be powered off when not in use, although it is safe to leave a hard drive running continuously.---

Turning on the drive a few times per day is considered normal usage and should not pose any problems. If a drive is turned on and off excessively on a daily basis, this could affect the longevity of the hard drive’s components. <-QUOTE}

So really what it amounts to is that for the home user,any normal or even abnormal usage is OK.
In the highly unlikely event of disk failure,all disks have a warranty for 3-5 years,so as long as you have a backup,its not important,except for the inconvenience factor of time and effort.
I would say the risk of a disk breaking down is much greater within the first 60 days or so,as with all computer hardware.
For me, in 14 years of usage the only occurrence of disk failure was with a new disk
Few of us ,if any are operating in the same environment as described by Groomlake,which no doubt also employs the heavier duty drives.

Do whatever you like-its OK:thumb: .

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> excessive formats/restores. <-QUOTE}
You can format a disk a zillon times without causing any harm :)
{QUOTE->
There are tests for errors and a report-usually some bad sectors can be repaired-but as I said if the bad sectors keep growing,you should get a new disk. <-QUOTE}
Manufacturers' utilities aren't that reliable. Samsung's utility reports errors, bad sectors on the brand-new F1 because of a firmware incompatibility.

[Hairy Coo]

{QUOTE->

Manufacturers' utilities aren't that reliable. Samsung's utility reports errors, bad sectors on the brand-new F1 because of a firmware incompatibility. <-QUOTE}

Think you may be generalizing-my Seagate utility worked fine,as did WD in those days
What do you recommend that can restore bad sectors and give a reliable report

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> What do you recommend that can restore bad sectors and give a reliable report <-QUOTE}
I do use the manufacturer's utility, but I don't put blind faith in it.

http://forums.storagereview.net/index.php?showtopic=26454&hl=samsung+1tb
http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=41140&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=240

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> cant understand what the tech support guy was talking about-quite likely there were no files because you used the Hitachi diagnostics. <-QUOTE}
It was at that point that I went to the Western Digital website and downloaded Lifeguard Dignostics, I sent the tech support guy a copy of the report to prove there were files.