Software Vendors Beware! You are doing yourselves in.

[trjam]

And dont blame the consumers.

I hinted in a thread about all the free alternatives flooding the marketplace, and the reality of, that most are good if not better then most paid security products. Where is all this heading? I mean as I said, as of today I have no doubt I will ever spend money on another security product again based on the free ones out there. I can create free combos that would blow the best suites away in protection.

But, this isnt the way it is suppose to be. So why are you doing this to yourselves. You are making it harder to improve on the paid products, and the reality is, they have actually gotten worse. There is something really wrong with this picture.

[ChicknDip]

This is perfectly normal since shareware vendors aim for sales, and therefor they have to keep adding useless bells & whistles till eternity to keep the crowd interested. OTOH, freeware authors spend their time refining and making their tools bugfree.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "This is perfectly normal since shareware vendors aim for sales, and therefor they have to keep adding useless bells & whistles till eternity to keep the crowd interested. OTOH, freeware authors spend their time refining and making their tools bugfree." }-
As a shareware author, I can't agree with your opinion. I can say only for myself, all the letters below is a strongly IMHO.

If you make a software, there are three options for you: make is shareware, make it free and make it open-source. The last two cases do not allow you to work full time under the code of the program- you have to have your day job that takes a lot of your time and energy. I know- I came through it by myself. Also, there are a lot of freeware and open-source projects that are abandoned by their authors. Open-source projects has one more negative side- everyone can write a code, and you can not check if it is suitable or not (especially, with OS-dependent security software code).

In case of the shareware model- if the software sells, it gives you a great possibility to make it your day job and spend all your days with refining and making the tool bugfree. But yes, advertisement is very important here- how else you can say everybody in this world "hello! there is a good tool right here for your choice"?

[trjam]

Well, I guess it is most of the wait and see scenarios.

[Coldmoon]

Though getting your name and products in front of potential users and customers is extremely important, especially if your organization is not yet large enough to support traditional advertising, you also should consider the "urgency of now" as another motivation.

If your product or products solve issues that have relevance to an extremely large potential user-base, the freeware option can provide a means to acheive quick acceptance and adoption of said solutions.

So in this you have both affordable advertising and brand building while providing a needed public service.

Mike

[jrmhng]

There was a similar conversation before in the thread on who buys security software. There are lots of reasons why vendors who release freeware versions; marketing, creating a honeypot etc

[trjam]

-{ Quote: "There was a similar conversation before in the thread on who buys security software. There are lots of reasons why vendors who release freeware versions; marketing, creating a honeypot etc" }-
Actually I think you are right. It was me and this is pretty much a duplicate to that one. I apologize and this can be closed if the mods wish. Thanks huangker.:)

[Rasheed187]

I can only say that, who doesn´t like a free lunch? Don´t you just love all these free security tools? I really hate having to pay for security software, and software in general. On the other hand, I also realize that the developers must make money in order for the product to survive. Just look at what happened to Neoava Guard, my favorite HIPS. Arman simply didn´t make any money, so now the project is dead.

Currently I´m on the point that I´m willing to pay for real quality tools (it must not be too expensive!), but until then I will continue to enjoy using my completely free security setup. :argh:

[Antarctica]

-{ Quote: "On the other hand, I also realize that the developers must make money in order for the product to survive." }-

You are absolutely right. That's why when you have a good product with fantastic support like for exemple, DefenseWall (and if the product meets your needs) I did not even hesitate to buy a license.:)

[Bio-Hazard]

-{ Quote: "That's why when you have a good product with fantastic support like for exemple, DefenseWall (and if the product meets your needs) I did not even hesitate to buy a license.:)" }-

I totally agree. Thats why i now i have licences for selected security software, some i could have used for free but i wanted to support the developer.

[Threedog]

I am the same way. If I trial something and it works out good for me I definately will buy it instead of using a free version. Like Superantispyware for example. The free works good and would suffice but I like the product and the company so why not support them.

I do like 30 day trials though so you can give something a good workout and have time to make a decision. I recently bought one security app that didn't have a trial but people said it was good but after having it for less than a month I realise that I should have gone with their other app or something else.

[Stem]

I do like the fact that there are quite a number of "free" security applications, as this not only protects those who cannot afford (or simply do not want to pay for) security, but also helps prevent the spred of bots etc, which in the end, helps us all.

I am one who supports vendors, I do make quite a number of license purchases, but personally have no problem with whatever (paid or free) direction others take. (IMHO of course)

[muf]

I think they are way overpriced. If they reduced the price to approximately $10 then they'd sell a lot more licences. Yeah sure the author would not make as much money on each sale but I believe anyone trialling a software and they like it and plan to purchase it will be put off by a price tag of $30 or $40. They'd probably think "yeah i like it, but not THAT much!". Uninstall and find something else cheaper or for free. If they were $10 they would be more likely to spend a smaller amount as it doesn't hurt the pocket anywhere near as much. Isn't Prevx about $12 for a year? Nobody likes expensive stuff, except the rich and even some of them are tighter than a tight thing in a tight place!

I do own a lot of licences and i've paid those $30 and $40 price tags. But I'm in the minority. It's the majority that rules, and I believe they use free because they feel paid are overpriced. Rightly or wrongly, I'm sure they think they are overpriced. And I agree.

muf

[Miyagi]

It's a gamble of marketing for the developers. But I agree that income is something you need to continue. $10 or $30. As like the posts above, I like to support than getting a free version.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "If they reduced the price to approximately $10 then they'd sell a lot more licences." }-
This case, people start think that it is something cheap staff and crappy and won't buy at all! It is just a question of consumer's psychology, nothing more. You will be surprised, but the shareware software's cost is based on a 'good practices of the price corridors', nothing more.

[trjam]

Ilya, good points but,I think all software sold in todays market shoud automatically include usage on 2 computers. I think there should be be discounts for all renewals. I think that is you give a freebie away to entice new customers you better not forget your paying ones.

It use to be the free market was nothing more then software that was full of crap. This isnt so anymore and it keeps changing in the favor of the consumer. As I said, I would not hesitate to create a free setup to compete with a paid one. Also all you high priced suites better start re-thinking your cost setups. People are tired of paying XXX dollars each year to renew this and XXXX to renew that. Times are changing.

I would say the prefered way is a one time fee. But we saw what it did to BoClean unfortunatly. Others are still trying it and I think it will work as time goes by. But the yearly renewal fee better bring with it something worthwhile or people are going to cut back. Times are hard everywhere.

[greenhorn113]

I am firmly in the camp that If I trial something and think it works and like it have no hesitation in buying a license to either get the additional features not available in free versions or to support the vendor.:)

[trjam]

But there is a big difference in a trial and a freebie. I agree, I want to trial it before I buy. I really will like testing AVGs new suite when it is out. But the freebies that have no end are the ones that have grown in perfection and hurt the marketplace in the end. Hell, some are shooting themselves in the foot because of this. PC Tools had to lower the cost of Threatfire because the freebie was so good. Even lowering the price of the paid hasnt helped from what I am told.

[WilliamP]

I don't mind paying for a program that I feel does a good job. I have dropped some that I paid for to get a free one that I felt was better. And I have paid for some that I could replace with free ones but I feel that I got what I paid for. Support is very important. There are a few with great support and those fellows should be able to SUPPORT themselves.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "Ilya, good points but,I think all software sold in todays market shoud automatically include usage on 2 computers." }-
A lot of the people here, in Russia have only one computer- I don't know the situation in other, 'gold billion' countries. But, if to think from the point of view of the 'one computer' customer: "OK, this staff costs XXX for two computers license. But I have only one computer. Why I should pay those XXX, it is not really fair for me!". I just always try to think from the different angles.

-{ Quote: "I think there should be be discounts for all renewals. I think that is you give a freebie away to entice new customers you better not forget your paying ones." }-
I do exactly this way.

[djohn]

Normally I believe We get what We pay for but In many cases for software it is just not worth there over priced products.Just look at some of the free alternatives that are on par or better then the paid for and this indeed should be a wake up call for many vendors to either lower prices or justify the cost of there expensive products.

[trjam]

-{ Quote: "A lot of the people here, in Russia have only one computer- I don't know the situation in other, 'gold billion' countries. But, if to think from the point of view of the 'one computer' customer: "OK, this staff costs XXX for two computers license. But I have only one computer. Why I should pay those XXX, it is not really fair for me!". I just always try to think from the different angles.


I do exactly this way." }-
Ilya, I wasnt questioning you or your software. I have the utmost respect for you. But more nations are going to 2 computer households and, the "gold billion" reference is really a cheap shot coming from someone of your statue.''

What it says to me is your marketing stratagy revolves around Russia and not globally.

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "What it says to me is your marketing stratagy revolves around Russia and not globally." }-
I can't agree- I have no marketing strategy for Russia at all. :D
But OK, I'm sitting here and can't know everything all around the world. That is why I'm asking- to clarify everything for myself. The more information I have the more I can understand the world around.

BTW, lets back to the 2 householder's computers. Yes, it is possible to make a special "2 licenses" pack. Is that what you mean or, maybe, volume discounts right from the 2 licenses?

[trjam]

well, thats a good one. I dont know much beyond the boundary of my yard.;)

From a consumers side, they would say that any license should be able to be activated on 2 computers. 3-5 at a discount.

From a vendors viewpoint, I would say buy 1 get 1 half price off.

So that is my 2 cents and again, I commend you for listening.:thumb:

[Miyagi]

-{ Quote: "The more information I have the more I can understand the world around." }-
Easy!! - You can check competitors website to see what they offer. ;) BTW Ilya, I am trialing your product right now and like it so far. Will be joining your forum soon.

[Hermescomputers]

I remember the days when getting a copy of a basic business spreadsheet (Packed with Bugs, I might add) would throw you back over $800.00 Canadian. I am also aware of clients who for some absurd reasons have continued to purchase the same product over and over just to keep it current... Just imagine how much this "spreadsheet" as actually cost after tallying it all up! for what? for the same fracking features dressed up slightly differently after each iterations? That applications must have cost more than a new car! per clients.

Just imagine the profits... these small gradual aggregations have generated over all. Then multiply this by the number of Nodes on a typical business network, then multiply that by the number of business who are forced to renew and purchase new licenses just to ensure that the licensing is compliant. (there are even businesses entirely devoted to corporate software license compliance)

You can also count Operating Systems as part of this rant....( instead of making XP better they chose to kill it for just another good example) to be replaced with an inferior product to boot... (No Pun Intended) This time they even figured out how to boost sales to Apple doing this dance ::) ... So much for it that Groups are popping up all over the world "Begging to Save XP" ... While it may be true that Vista may prove itself somewhere down the road, it certainly does not justify discontinuing XP as the product is rock solid and it works as intended. It does need some security updates here and there but these by no means can justify killing it or even upgrading and replacing it for that matter. So because a few of the holes that are well known to be in XP are now plugged in Vista they want you to purchase vista? They should have closed the holes in XP instead!!! Besides Vista's "new File System" as it was promised is missing in action so what actually does justify killing a good OS to replace it with Vista?

Consumers and Users have been burned long and hard by the software business. Just think of all these applications that are perfectly functional but are sometimes discontinued to be replaced by inferior versions that need to be debugged for months just to keep the profits up...

Many of the comments stated by some of the Peeps, above displayed a great deal of perception and intelligence. However, I think, in the end that Global software Piracy and the open source and shareware movements are really largely a response to this issue, although in the case of Open Source it is University's computer science departments that often are the base for these projects where many of the more important ones sometimes become commercial successes themselves later. Also I think it is worthy to mention that the majority of "Successful" applications commercially are also really controlled by a handful of monolithic and monopolistic business monsters that dominate by any means necessary...

It seems to me (perhaps I'm wrong) that most of the other small developers, at the very least the more creative ones are really simply basement operations composed of a single worker, usually living on pretzels and mineral water (betweens the necessary gallons of coffee) ;D Which would explain why they are still able to survive... in such a nasty environment.:D

[EASTER]

The real problem to me seems to rest on that the really good products and their conscientious talented inventers/developers like those of DefenseWall, SUPERAntiSpyware, SandboxIE and the like really do deserve some reasonable compensation for their efforts in fashioning what i love to
call 21st Century Computer Security Innovations.

I like to see the big dog comglomerates match these gentlemen's enthusiasm and concern along with such generous and forthright honest support in comparison to those monsters who have huge resources to burn for advertisements and such who seem to be toying with their products anyway and not really moving them ahead of the danger curve like Ilya, Nick, Tzuk, Mike of Returnil for example.

Like anyone else i also prefer to enjoy a share of free myself, heck Power Shadow + EQS are my very best freebies i think i ever had the good fortune of falling right into my lap the way they did and proving issue-free plus formidable. But make no mistake, compare their support and updates to the other developers i just mentioned. I think those shareware offers are but a small price to pay and in fact a great deal which still favors the consumer and hopefully helps the developers to grow and realize some reasonable enough profit for them.

[Hermescomputers]

I agree with Easter fully here,

They certainly need to be applauded for the incredible work they have done. Many have proven without much of a doubt to me that the solution is not to switch operating system as Microsoft would like most to believe but to seek some solutions in products like Sandboxie. Look for the creative ideas that actually do work...

If only they could become profitable doing it... :dry:

I personally kept out of development, because of these monopolies... I couldn't see myself fighting Goliath on all fronts... These guys have guts and they deserve the support they get within places like wilders... unfortunately I don't see too many magazines, and technical writers in general making much noise about them... They all seem to be rallying themselves behind the monoliths...

Also notice the trend, most of the best security tools that work well are tiny little files, Microsoft on the other hand is pushing crap the size of a DVD onto your Hard disk, that essentially doesn't work anywhere near as good as these tiny little files... Do they think everyone is brain dead enough to believe that bigger means better?

These corporate types that love to sell you something broken then make you pay to fix it with something else that's broken... that is what we get from them, product after product since the beginning.

This needs to change. Plain and Simple!

[avboy]

-{ Quote: "This case, people start think that it is something cheap staff and crappy and won't buy at all! ............." }-

That may not be true at all. Particularly when I have x no of PCs and the numbers keeps on increasing. I am not a business user, and I like vendors offering family packs. I definitely buy them. And yes, why do I buy even if I get them free?
1. Dedication from developer (dont mean to say that free softs dont have dedicated developers, just that they dont have to think of anything else to keep their fire burning!)
2. Support
3. Ongoing development

I would definitely buy a 4 PC license for $30. But each at $30 does make me look at cheaper/free option!

Avboy

[Ilya Rabinovich]

-{ Quote: "They all seem to be rallying themselves behind the monoliths..." }-
Not only rallying- big publishing networks are the monopolists too (PCMag, PCWeek).

[MitchE323]

-{ Quote: "These corporate types that love to sell you something broken then make you pay to fix it with something else that's broken... that is what we get from them, product after product since the beginning. " }-
Hey buddy, I knew we would get around to agreeing on something if we kept at it. :D I actually underline that about five times! Developers like Ilya and Tzuk that have the know-how and actually listen to what folks report is where it is at for me. The way I see it, nothing else is offered in this life that is free, so I don't insist on it with computerware.

[Hermescomputers]

-{ Quote: "Hey buddy, I knew we would get around to agreeing on something if we kept at it. :D I actually underline that about five times! Developers like Ilya and Tzuk that have the know-how and actually listen to what folks report is where it is at for me. The way I see it, nothing else is offered in this life that is free, so I don't insist on it with computerware." }-

This is so nice to see you are attracted to my "Kinder Gentler" side :blink:

[Rasheed187]

@ HermesComputers

I fully agree with you, those were some nice posts. :thumb:

I can´t even comprehend the fact that big companies like M$, often manage to come up with such crappy software. And I also think that certain software is overpriced, to name only one example, take KAV/KIS, currently I believe I have about the same strenght of protection (or perhaps even better) with my free security tools, and I´m supposed to pay 35 euro a year? No thanks. :gack:

[Hermescomputers]

-{ Quote: "@ HermesComputers

I fully agree with you, those were some nice posts. :thumb:
" }-

Thanks! :)

-{ Quote: "
I believe I have about the same strength of protection (or perhaps even better) with my free security tools, and I´m supposed to pay 35 euro a year? No thanks. :gack:" }-

Well... this is where capitalist market forces can really show it's "Good" side for the consumer: You have choice, variety, and multiple options price and otherwise.

It's also where big Monopolies show their ugly head that all this variety, choice and options simply vanish...