If I buy tds3 now will I get a free upgrade to tds4?

[testing tds3]

IF I were to purchase TDS-3 now will I get a free upgrade to TDS-4? and if so what parts of the TDS-4 will I get the free upgrade for? I know that someone was saying that TDS-4 will come in a few flavors.

Thanks

P.S.
Is there an academic discount?

[Jooske]

Hi testing!
TDS-4 consists of three parts: Pro, Active Guard and a Scanner. Of those we can choose one for free as an upgrade for TDS-3 Pro which you're testing at the moment. Depending on your personal taste you can take all three or a combination of the other elements.
We do not know more about the parts then names and what they probably stand for: the AG will be the first to be betatested and released for public (is the planning) -- it is a resident protection, the Pro will most probably look more or less like the current Pro with all those network functions and more, not sure if that part will keep it's scanning functions, guess it will, and there will come the other new scanner beside it, of which i don't know nothing at all what is it's specific functionality except that those who don't want the Pro can do with that. All depends on people's needs.

About prices and conditions -- hard to tell with the products not finished yet. We do see in more DCS products special student's conditions so there might be options if possible. The products are all much too cheap for what they offer anyway already.
Guess you collected all the free tools from the site already too as extra protection for your expensive valuable system? Real good stuff overthere!

[jay111]

;D
hi there !
i've recently purchased the DiamondCS Pack for $99.
TDS-3 Port Explorer and WormGuard.
the Pack includes an upgrade to TDS-4
and WormGuard4. excellant value with the Aussie dollar
around $us.80.
regards
jay111 ;D

[gkweb]

nice deal ;)

[dallen]

In the year 2005 when TDS-4 comes out, you will get 1/3 of the package.

[Gavin - DiamondCS]

Not at all, TDS-3 users will be advised to take TDS-4 Guard free, which will be an automatic protection system that does everything without you needing to worry about scanning. This will be available soon ;)

[dallen]

-{ Quote: "Not at all, TDS-3 users will be advised to take TDS-4 Guard free, which will be an automatic protection system that does everything without you needing to worry about scanning." }-

However if you choose that as your freebie and you want an on demand scanner, you will likely have to purchase it and if you want the Pro version, which you purchased originally with version 3 on top of those two, you will have to purchase it to. I understand that there is a lot of effort going into this product to make it the best and I can understand paying them for their efforts, but don't try to convince people to buy version 3 at this point because I can't see how they would be getting a good deal from a financial perspective.
I think that by doing this you are either hinting that it is going to be a while before the release of version 4, or you are trying to suck all the extra profits you can from your customers on the old versiion just prior to the release of the new.

-{ Quote: "This will be available soon" }-

Frankly, this is a load of crap. Take all the time you want to make a superior product. I want you to do that. Better things come to those who wait. However, every time I hear that these products will be available soon I about fall of my chair. I can't even remember how long ago it was when I first heard "soon."
I've heard so many excuses for not giving a release date, or even an expected release date and the only logical explanation is that when release dates are given and not met, people get upset. No good reason for not giving an expected release date or tenative release date has been given.Despite all that and your thoughts on the matter, it is downright unethical to continue saying that the product will be released soon for such an extended period.

[Jason_DiamondCS]

Nothing has been set in stone yet what parts TDS-3 Professional purchasers will get, it could be all or it could be some. Why aren't people getting a good deal? Last I checked if you bought most software you were not entitled to upgrades to major revisions. Just because I bought Windows XP does that mean I am entitled to a free upgrade to Longhorn or Windows 2003? No.

We are allowing people to not only get TDS-3 but an upgrade to the next version also. Whatever that upgrade may be, it will be an improvement over TDS-3 and IT IS worth money. We have promised people an upgrade to TDS-4 and we will be giving it to them. Does that mean that everyone's preconception of what TDS-4 is going to be is the same? No.

Anything we do with TDS-4 will ALWAYS have some benefit for existing TDS-3 customers over new customers in regards to price, regardless of what we do, how we package it, etc.


-{ Quote: " quoting: dallen link=board=5;threadid=19707;start=0#msg122632 date=1074757068]
However if you choose that as your freebie and you want an on demand scanner, you will likely have to purchase it and if you want the Pro version, which you purchased originally with version 3 on top of those two, you will have to purchase it to. I understand that there is a lot of effort going into this product to make it the best and I can understand paying them for their efforts, but don't try to convince people to buy version 3 at this point because I can't see how they would be getting a good deal from a financial perspective.
I think that by doing this you are either hinting that it is going to be a while before the release of version 4, or you are trying to suck all the extra profits you can from your customers on the old versiion just prior to the release of the new.

I've heard so many excuses for not giving a release date, or even an expected release date and the only logical explanation is that when release dates are given and not met, people get upset. No good reason for not giving an expected release date or tenative release date has been given.Despite all that and your thoughts on the matter, it is downright unethical to continue saying that the product will be released soon for such an extended period.
" }-

[Jooske]

Dallen, corrections please.
TDS-3 we all are using is already a top notch product protecting us with daily updated databases to start with.
So there is not any reason for not buying it at all, the contrary, as top there is every reason to get it on your system and buy it immediately for all reasons.
Other products either ask a yearly renovation for keeping to use it and the ability to update the databases and more for a program upgrade.
We did not pay none extra for all those, while we had some upgrades in the meantime and still have our databases updates.

Free upgrades for licensed operators on DCS software is a business policy, which is not seen around in many other places.

Giving us the choice to have either one of the products 1, 2 or 3 for free as an upgrade for Pro is astonishing, as this means even if the three would be ready at this moment, we are not "forced" to have only the Pro for free, while we might like in our situation maybe better product 2 or 3.
In practise it means, if we install the Active Guard which could be the first to be released and which works on the new Radius 4 engine, we have still the current TDS-3 Pro on the radius 3 running beside it and have all the new parts, so our protection grows all for free!
Gavin advices to choose the AG as the free upgrade, so you're served right as soon as possible.
It was mentioned long ago we would have one of the three as the free upgrade, so i really don't see any reason for feeling bad but for the delays caused by circumstances in the trojan development world, among others.
In the meantime we have been made very happy with several other tools, which technical development was necessary for building the other products, so not causing delays, while a lot of work on those other products has been done by Jason in his own spare time, not causing any delays on the other products.

So the only disappointment could be the time scale.
But we do know with that we will have complete new products in stead of half upgrades after upgrades and fixes and and and The value of the new products is only growing in the meantime and more of our wishlists will have been build into them.

So again: not any reason to hold back for buying TDS-3 at this moment, the next new product you can have all for free (buy one, get two) just be happy protected with the DCS family.

[BillW3]

Hello
I have done my homework and have read all the reviews & it seems TDS-3 gets the high honors, so I have decided on your product, however I have been waiting for this upgrade so I can finally purchase & install it.

My question is, if TDS-4 has a new Radius 4 engine how will that "upgrade" effect the current version? What I mean to say is, will I have to uninstall TDS-3 or can you just install over it?

My problem is, I don't want to buy & install TDS3 just to find out 2 days later the new version is out. I really dont want to bugger up my system cause it seems this new version will be very different from the current one. I would like a clean install from the get go if possible.

It would be great if you could give us an idea when it may be ready??

3 months?
6 months?
1 year???


Looking forward to using your product as soon as its ready!

[dallen]

BillW3,

I think that you are wise in holding off puchasing TDS-3. Your logic is sound and I admire your patience. There is no doubt that you've come to the right place for a superior trojan defense system.

However, regardless of what follows this posting I want you to remember that they have been saying that it will be available soon for a long time. Furthermore, they use flawed logic to justify not giving anything that even comes close to a release date. No projections, no guestimates, no anticipated date, not even a timeframe.

They say it's because they care about us and don't want to hurt our feelings by disappointing us when unplanned delays occur. I think they would be helping us by at least giving us some idea of when to expect it. My guess is that the three products won't all be available until late 2004, but the first one will be released in 3 to 6 months. Purely speculation.

[Gavin - DiamondCS]

We have only ever said what we think the release would be, however circumstances beyond our control have pushed things back further in our quest to make TDS-4 as good as it can be. Changes in design have forced us to scrap work at least once and rethink certain parts of it, and this is unfortunate. It has cost us time and has been frustrating.

We HAVE been trying to work out something in concrete, so we can put forward the upgrade plan and all details however a MAJOR priority is still to continue to update TDS-3, usually daily. We cant just drop it and move to a new database format, new local tools, new program (which isnt finished)

[Jason_DiamondCS]

If we weren't offering a free upgrade to the next version I could see why you might wait for the next product to be released before purchasing. However since we are I cannot see a valid reason, especially if you need an anti trojan program today.

-Jason-

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: " quoting: dallen link=board=5;threadid=19707;start=0#msg122917 date=1074826448]
BillW3,

I think that you are wise in holding off puchasing TDS-3. Your logic is sound and I admire your patience. There is no doubt that you've come to the right place for a superior trojan defense system." }-

Bill W3 & dallen,

I'm not so sure. I weighed the same option a couple of months ago. After installing TDS-3 on my PC, I decided to install it on the remaining PC's in the house. Same question occurred to me - should I wait for TDS-4 to hit the streets? Here was my logic to jump now instead of waiting...

1. There are a couple of other options out there - BOClean and TH come to mind. You can throw a couple more into the mix, and maybe add some AV's into the mix. Although TDS-3 is mature, it doesn't really give anything up in terms of the feature set to the competition. Their new releases are already out, so you're unlikely (mind you, I said unlikely, not impossible) to see a major jump in functionality from the competition over the current TDS-3 offering over the next few months to a year. Punch line, if you buy now, you're at state of the art now and will still be when TDS-4 is available.

2. I've never known it to be disadvantageous when a free upgrade is offered. If it were a major version upgrade at a discount and I might be wondering. However, regardless of how TDS-4 is eventually packaged, I can't imagine that you'll end up forced into a feature set downgrade when the jump is made to version 4.

3. I can see where you might select what could be viewed as a feature set downgrade if the first module on the street is maybe just active monitoring. However, depending on what you want, that could be the preferred and only option you would use, and you make the jump in that direction since the features that are not part of this variant aren't ones you use anyway. But hey - this is pure speculation on the positioning - maybe all 3 variant exceed the full functionality of TDS-3 as it now stands, I don't know.

4. I'm sure the product positioning will be clearer when release time is really close. I infer from the fluidity of the product positioning in this forum that "soon" is really not what I would call "soon". My opinion - a few months, maybe more. Does that bother me? Not really. If I had a program that was a clear underperformer relative to the competition it would, but that's not the case. As long as I'm not giving up anything in essential functionality DCS has all the time in the world in my book. I'd sure like a peek at the detailed TDS-4 spec's and certainly hope I wake up tomorrow to the roll-out of TDS-4. [Actually, I'd be happy just to see PG 2.0 tomorrow ;), but that's just me]

If you're definitely going to go with TDS, I really don't see a downside making the purchase now, but that's from a current user and I understand my comfort level should be a little different from yours.

Blue

[Jason_DiamondCS]

Good post BlueZanetti, have some karma cookies :D

-Jason-

[dallen]

I have intentiionally avoided BOClean's and TH's websites because I didn't want to be lured to their newer versions. Not to mention that I have developed so much confidence in the quality of TDS-3 that I don't even think about switching defense systems.

However, the anticipated releases of AAW 6.2, the version 4 of the TDS suite and the new PE I admit that I get confused keeping up with all the posting on both Lavasoft's and this forum so I can't give an exact quote. I do, however, specifically remember one mentioning the arrival before Christmas (that may have been AAW) and I also remember reading something that said PE would be the first release from DiamondCS.

Anyway, Lavasoft and DCS are equally bad about withholding release information. Hell, I have a better idea about both the functionality and the release timeframe regarding Microsoft's Longhorn and it's not slated to be released until 2005.

[Jooske]

Dallen, whatever i have written, it seems you are blind for every honest argument i have written and other people did.
We all understand your disappointment for the waiting for products the whole world is waiting for, but that is no reason to discourage other people to get the best protection they can have at thios moment on their own systems.
You can understand also the DCS people's interest is to release new products for our protection as has been done in the meantime and i'm not going to rewrite the arguments written countless times about this.

For those who are asking:
TDS-3 is another system and it can coexist with the new elements and will be supported till the last TDS-4 Pro has been released finally. At that moment the TDS-3 will no longer be supported and with the new technologies included it will most probably be adviced to uninstall - reboot - install the new Pro but it might be different, let's just wait and see. In the meantime, enjoy what we have!

[ArchAngel_8]

8) I use TDS-3 and it is great software. I have no problems giving the folks at DSC all the time they need to get TDS-4 to us! In the mean time, as several people have mentioned, TDS-3 is still doing a wonderfull job of protecting our computers and DCS has one of the MOST frequent update scheduals of any AT,AV company! ;D.
Oh and I purchased the combo TDS-3, PE, & WG. Even if I have to pay a little extra for some of the new components included in TDS-4, It is still cheaper than paying every year like many AV companys force you to do.

[Jooske]

ArchAngel_B thanks for the encouragement and kind words, have some karmacookies to munch!

[Wayne - DiamondCS]

We actually have some customers still with us today who've only ever paid for one of our programs - TDS1/TDS2, back in the late 90s - the golden days of the first remote access trojans. Since then they've received a free update to TDS3, free database updates virtually every day Mon-Fri since, and will also be able to upgrade to any one of the three TDS4 programs completely free also - I'd say that's a fair return from a one-off ~$30 purchase they made in the late 90s. We are a business so we do need to sell something to keep our heads above the waterline, but I hope you can see that we are committed to complete customer satisfaction.

TDS3 is still the most advanced anti-trojan program available in the world so although it'd be nice to have TDS4 today, it's more of a WANT than a NEED, as TDS3 is still doing a more than adequate job. However, I can tell you that the release of TDS4 has been delayed mainly for two reasons:
1) The research and development of port-to-process mapping technology (as seen in OpenPorts and Port Explorer). As a result of this, TDS4 will be the first and only anti-trojan program with port-to-process mapping capabilities - that is, it'll be able to tell you which TCP\UDP ports a particular program (such as a trojan) is using.
2) The research and development of process integrity protection technology (as seen in Process Guard). The main reason for this was to provide termination protection to TDS, but as a result of Process Guard you can now secure as many processes as you like from a wide variety of attacks, including termination, code modification, suspension, and much more. It even blocks rootkit drivers from being able to install, and even effectively blocks six of the thirteen leaktest programs available at gkweb's leaktest website - not bad for a program that was never designed to have any anti-leaktest capabilities! It's just an interesting side-effect of the protection.

But the good news is that now with the release of Process Guard v1.200, and Port Explorer/OpenPorts already in stable conditions, we're now 100% free to work on nothing but TDS4/Wormguard4 :). We're finally free from other interruptions, and now that we've finished all the research for port-to-process mapping and process integrity protection technologies we'll be able to make TDS4 as powerful as we originally envisaged it.

Enjoy the weekend folks. Long weekend here in Australia with Monday being Australia Day ... :)

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: " quoting: BlueZannetti link=board=5;threadid=19707;start=0#msg122952 date=1074831784]
[Actually, I'd be happy just to see PG 2.0 tomorrow ;), but that's just me]
..." }-
It was late, I did mean Process Guard 1.2 (not 2.0, not that there's anything wrong with that!), and lo and behold, there it is this morning. Many thanks guys.

Blue

[Jooske]

You're forgiven Blue, just a foreseeing eye and entusiasm for the nice new product!
Much your karmacookies for your kind kind postings!

[ArchAngel_8]

:D Thanks for the cookies jooske, and HAPPY Australia to the folks at DCS!

[Mr.Blaze]

:owait one tutin moment


ehemmmmmmmmmmmm

i hope im wrong about this

but are you saying basicly theres 3 add ons to tds 4

and rather then get a full blowen product you get it in pices and you get to choose 1 of 3 updates add ons to your exsisting tds ?

and if i want the other two add ons im have to pay extra?


i have worm guard port explorer frail i have them all

but when tds 4 come out i have an adtional two add ons i will have to buy rather then enjoy it all

i have process guard why would i need active guard.

i have tds 3 pro that has a scaner when it looks for trojans

so new tds 4 is that kinda what we call on the streets chop shop ?


and befor you all get up in arms im just asking qustions

not trying to start nothing just concern consumer here lol

[Mr.Blaze]

:oomg and more importantly you guys are keeping all same stuff of tds 3 in 4 right like my excution protection you not geting rid of that and replaceing it with active guard are you?

[Jooske]

Somewhere in one of the many threads Wayne promised on our special request to include exec protection on both TDS-4 Pro and Active Guard, remember there is one in WG too but it is also this way if it is installed in the one product it is not installed another time via the other product, but it is used by all which can.
Of course we don't know if the exec protection is the same or a new version, we can but wait and see.
Blaze, did i overlook your CS in your mentioned collection, the one you are so happy with?
TDS-3, WG-3, PE, PG, CS, ASV, APM, APT, OP, and whatever more is available from the products pages.
Make sure you keep up to date with new releases where available.

Process Guard is protecting your processes for illegal termination and more, Active Guard is scanning and protecting your whole system for infections, mutexes, etc etc. between the full system scans at least.
Good question though, as win9x users must remember they can't install PG, so they need at least AG besides the others, but as it seems they would not be protected for the process terminations and corruptions, which are not always only created by trojans or other nasties, but with PG you can also tell legal processes not being allowed to terminate another process, etc etc.


BTW: in case you ever have to uninstall and reinstall TDS make it a habit to first uninstall the exec protection before you continue uninstalling TDS as you could get into trouble if you don't. Just a tip.

[tempnexus]

yeah I've been mulling over the fact if I should purchase TDS-3 or wait. Since right now I have BoClean which acts like a realTime scanner thus what I want is an on Demand scanner which TDS-3 offers and offers it well. Therefore I am waiting for the new TDS-4 since well all I need is On-Demand scanner and not realTime scanner.
I am just worried that if I were to purchase TDS-3 today and later days, weeks, Months, years when the new version is released all I will get as a free upgrade is a realtime scanner...that will not suite me since what I need as a upgrade is the On Demand scanner.
I know TDS-3,4 has a great realtime scanner etc. but I don't want too many things to bog down my system when I allready have paid for BoClean to do the realtime work (so far so good). (The only negative side is the lack of ondemand scan thus the only way I know I got infected is AFTER I got infected (which is kind of daring) but so far works good.).

[Pilli]

Hi tempnexus , If you buy TDS3 now you will have the choice to upgrade to
The resident scanner, on demand scanner or TDS4 Pro (final components TBA for TDS4). :)

HTH Pilli

[Jooske]

No, TDS-4 will be three separate products which you choose for your own wishes and needs, so you are not forced into a product you don't want/need at all.
TDS-3 Pro you can upgrade to TDS-4 Pro, which' design we can only speculate will be more or less like TDS-3 Pro. while the new Active Guard will come beside it for the real time protection and there comes a separate on demand scanner which you might like extra, some folks will be happy with the scanner and Guard and don't need Pro at all, all depends on personal taste! I am not sure about the scanner and the scanning options in Pro as i remember there was said many people would like to have all three products beside one another.
As TDS-4 Pro is supposed to be released as last of these three, we can just wait and see, but expect it in it's scanning part like the current one, on demand.

[dallen]

Jooske,

I wrote this:
-{ Quote: "I've heard so many excuses for not giving a release date, or even an expected release date and the only logical explanation is that when release dates are given and not met, people get upset. No good reason for not giving an expected release date or tenative release date has been given.Despite all that and your thoughts on the matter, it is downright unethical to continue saying that the product will be released soon for such an extended period. " }-
...and if I'm not mistaken, this response:
-{ Quote: "Dallen, whatever i have written, it seems you are blind for every honest argument i have written and other people did." }-

...was commenting on the above.
Jooske, I have read every argument that you've written to me regarding my complaint and I challenge you to give me one simple, good reason that justifies not giving a time frame.

I am not blind to what you say. I read it and frankly 99% of what you say is very valuable to me. However, there has never, and I mean never been a good reason that makes my statement invalid.

Honestly, it hurts my feelings that you would accuse me on not reading or not thinking about your arguments. I think that you are going to argue in defense of DCS no matter what. Maybe if you actually thought about what I'm saying objectively, you might actually see that I have a good point. However, your so bent on arguing DCS's defense that you can't fathom the possibility that maybe they are wrong.

[Jooske]

Easy:
you tell users NOT to buy TDS-3, while we have all explained there is not any reason to wait with securing your system right this moment with TDS-3, which is the top still and only going to be more top in the next generation to come. While registered users can choose for themselves which of the new three TDS-4 products they choose as their free upgrade in future.
No secrets, no turning with words, just delay in upgrades build in the new products with possibly the name TDS-4 on it, while Wayne explained the technologies needed first are released in the meantime in other DCS products with other names on them.
Make sure you have them all.
TDS-3, WG-3, PE, CS, PG, ASV, APM, APT,
waiting for AG, ASG, and the scanner, Pro-4, WG-4
In the meantime new technologies are released in the recent PG build and CS.
More to come. Follow what is written in forums and the websites to stay on top.

[Mr.Blaze]

:DwAIT WAIT SLOW DOWEN OK WILL I GET EVERYTHING IN TDS PRO 4 THAT I GET IN TDS PRO PLUS THE ACTIVE GUARD IF THAT THE CASE THEN THAT COOL WITH ME

:oBut if i get jacked basicly lose a bunch of stuff and in order to get back up to speed i need to purchase two more things im be very upset worst then zap way worst

i still hope i get my scaner that i already have my ms agent my exe protection my hardcore settings my auto start my ports ect ect then im fine with the upgrade no need for that adtional stuffs

but if i lose stuff on top of stuff and have to buy new stuff that just outright sucks

[Jooske]

Blazey:
TDS-3 ProTrojan Defence Suiteyou haveshareware
WG-3WormGuardyou haveshareware
PEPort Exploreryou haveshareware
CSCryptoSuiteyou haveshareware
PGProcessGuardyou haveshareware + free
ASVAutoStart Vieweryou havefree
APMAdvanced Process Manipulationyou havefree
APTAdvanced Process Terminationyou havefree
OPOpen Portsyou havefree personal use
CTConsole Toolsyou havefree
IRCleanIRC /MIRC cleanyou havefree
RegistryProtRegistry Protectionyou havefree
Taskman+Task Manager toolyou havefree
DelLaterDeleter toolyou havefree
CmdLineProcess Listing command linesyou havefree
AGActive Guard (TDS-4)we're all waiting forshareware
ASGAutoStart Guardwe're all waiting forfree or shareware?
scannerScanner (TDS-4)we're all waiting forshareware
TDS-4 ProTDS-4 Prowe're all waiting forshareware
WG-4WormGuard-4we're all waiting forshareware


More available on the products pages, more to come.

[Jason_DiamondCS]

Nothing has been set in stone yet about how many packages TDS-4 may come in, what TDS-3 users will get, etc. We are trying to streamline everything into a product that isn't only the best at what it does, but also is easy for everyone to use and understand. Until the day it is released I am sure there will be a lot of changes in what TDS-4 ends up as. If you knew the amount of changes already since the last 12 months that TDS-4 has undergone you would realize why we aren't giving out release dates. :)

When we begin beta testing (which usually means public version will be released within a month of that) you guys will know.

-Jason-