Deep Freeze. (Ultimate System Restore) Anyone using here it too.

[ultragunnerdcl]

Im using Deep Freeze., The Ultimate System Restore. It freezes your baseline configuration & prevent any changes to your registry & drivers & windows. It can destroy any viruses even the metamorphic viruses(the most powerful virus) which some can evade detection by all virus scanners because of their ability to transform completely. It concept is the "end of time". No viruses, trojans, worms, spyware, rootkits, dialers, jokes, hacktools, can beat TIME itself. Just one reboot all mallware totally destroyed 100% like no mallware has infected you. !!!!!

[Hipgnosis]

If you do a forum search here for Deep Freeze you'll find a number of threads.

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> It can destroy any viruses even the metamorphic viruses(the most powerful virus) which some can evade detection by all virus scanners because of their ability to transform completely. It concept is the "end of time". No viruses, trojans, worms, spyware, rootkits, dialers, jokes, hacktools, can beat TIME itself. Just one reboot all mallware totally destroyed 100% like no mallware has infected you. !!!!! <-QUOTE} Use search function to see how many hassle you can get with deep freeze and beside who wants a permanent frost?

Frost = no change = not alive

Live is change mr super clever

You will never be able to prevent viruses, because viruses are motor of evolution as a part of life.

[Long View]

Am I using it yes and Returnil on other machines. Just curious though - how do you ensure that the nasty things you mention don't get in when you turn off the freeze protection to update various programs - especially the viruses that no one can detect :dry: ?

[EASTER]

You also should check and see how it faired with the KIllDisk trojan ;D

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> Use search function to see how many hassle you can get with deep freeze

. <-QUOTE}

what hassle ?

[SystemJunkie]

It destroyed cmos bootblock on my old system. Locked up forever, any kind of floppy disk will never be recognized again. (was a older version don´t know if they improved their maniac tool)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> The Ultimate System Restore. <-QUOTE}
Image Backup is the Ultimate System Restore, not Immediate System Recovery.

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> what hassle ? <-QUOTE} That´s not a toy just for info it can seriously damage your hardware (incl. cmos/bios). If someone will discover the source code of this cmos manipulation just post it in here. :-) :-) :-)

I am really keen of seeing a full forensic analysis of all changes this negligent thing makes on harddisk and in bios.

[EASTER]

DeepFreeze is full of horror stories. Better NOT to play with fire as a wise man once said, once burned twice scorched.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Im using Deep Freeze. <-QUOTE}
DeepFreeze is not the only ISR-software :

FirstDefense-ISR + clones
PowerShadow
Returnil
Rollback Rx + clones
ShadowDefender
ShadowUser
...
All these softwares push malware into the Bermuda Triangle. :)

[ultragunnerdcl]

IC. What do you recommend to me that is a better alternative to deep freeze???:wacko:

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> IC. What do you recommend to me that is a better alternative to deep freeze???:wacko: <-QUOTE}
This is a very difficult question. All these softwares have little, sometimes bigger differences and that's how users make their final choice.
Returnil is the only freeware and that makes it popular.

[idle.newbie]

FWIW theres several trojans and variants break into DF and some ISR-card protection in China (Sep./Oct. 2007) many inet cafe there use ISR solution only. One of them has an AIBO dog icon (机器狗病毒), place a pcihdd.sys into system32\drivers and later replace userinit.exe with a trojan downloader.

[farmerlee]

I use deepfreeze as well. Its always run flawlessly for me. Its the only security i use on that particular system.

[Perman]

{QUOTE-> It destroyed cmos bootblock on my old system. Locked up forever, any kind of floppy disk will never be recognized again. (was a older version don´t know if they improved their maniac tool) <-QUOTE}
Hi,
Floppy disk? you must be talking about obsoleted DF versions, those are breached by UNFREEZER(from south America). They are history now. Newer version 6.x and up are password protected. No original installation file and no known password, then no unlock or uninstall are ever possible. Human manipulations or cyber viruses/trojans (such as killdisk) attacks are out of order, do not even think about it. IMO, in DF's frozen state, your PC well-being are fully protected. But when in thawed mode, you just have to be more vigilant. I switched from FD-ISR / Acronis True Image package to Deep Freeze after suffered KillDisk attack. Never look back. I would recommend it to my friends and stand behind my action. Take care.

[Perman]

{QUOTE-> FWIW theres several trojans and variants break into DF and some ISR-card protection in China (Sep./Oct. 2007) many inet cafe there use ISR solution only. One of them has an AIBO dog icon (机器狗病毒), place a pcihdd.sys into system32\drivers and later replace userinit.exe with a trojan downloader. <-QUOTE}
Hi,

Can you proivide the link to these reports.
I read Chinese and understand it very well. Thanks

[idle.newbie]

{QUOTE-> Hi,
Can you proivide the link to these reports.
I read Chinese and understand it very well. Thanks <-QUOTE}
google "机器狗病毒" i got 194,000 entries...

[Osaban]

{QUOTE-> DeepFreeze is full of horror stories. Better NOT to play with fire as a wise man once said, once burned twice scorched. <-QUOTE}

Yes, horror stories due mainly to ignorance from the user. It's not the kind of software to trial blindly without doing some reading. Faronics was one the first to develop this sandbox idea, and even though there are alternatives, IMO it is still very competitive in price and very rugged, especially if one uses it in conjunction with AntiExecutables.

I use something else, but my next computer will have it, as they have shown to be very active in upgrading their applications.

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> Hi,

Can you proivide the link to these reports.
I read Chinese and understand it very well. Thanks <-QUOTE}

A little OT but Perman, if you are so literate in Chinese perhaps you could if you will make over to EQSecure and plz let us know if another new version is in the making or anything else that could prove helpful for that Chinese HIPS, which is a Super app IMHO.


Thanks a' Plenty for any help for us english only readers.

[Perman]

{QUOTE-> google "机器狗病毒" i got 194,000 entries... <-QUOTE}
Hi,

Thanks the hint.
I Google it, and 208,000 entries show up !
I selected the ones related to DeepFreeze, and read several.
Yes, This Doggy can breach DeepFreeze from version 5.7 to 6.2.
The current version is 6.3 :P lucky enough ? I am using this version.
This animal is a Trojan downloader using hook tech getting into system's hard drive.
Hope Av's vendors or their alike have an anti-dose for it. Take a good care.

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> .All these softwares push malware into the Bermuda Triangle. <-QUOTE}
;D Lol
{QUOTE-> no unlock or uninstall are ever possible. <-QUOTE}The cmos lock is unbreakable you can hear it as a click clack sound after rebooting (at least it was the way the old version worked). Does anyone know more about this incredible hardware manipulation? Who can reveal the secret?

AntiFreeze could not solve my cmos problem, I also tested it but this was harddrive specific, I think the cmos floppy/boot lock remains forever(except if one exchange the board or the cmos)

[Osaban]

{QUOTE->
Yes, This Doggy can breach DeepFreeze from version 5.7 to 6.2.
The current version is 6.3 :P lucky enough ? I am using this version.
<-QUOTE}

I don't have any statistical evidence to back up what I'm saying, but reading the Faronics site, and from personal experience reading security forums, I wouldn't be surprised if DeepFreeze was the most popular sandbox application worldwide, particurlarly for institutions like Universities, libraries etc.

What does it mean? That it is also the most targeted sandbox by crackers because of its popularity. Unfortunately it's what I'd call the 'Norton syndrome'.

[Perman]

Hi, folks:

For those who have concern re this doggy virus, the following link can provide more in-depth knowledges:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://www.93135.com/news/index.jsp%3Fid%3D509281%26nid%3D2374&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=2&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%259C%25BA%25E5%2599%25A8%25E7%258B%2597%25E7%2597%2585%25E6%25AF%2592%26start%3D10%26hl%3Den%26rlz%3D1T4CYBA_en___CA248%26sa%3DN

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Yes, This Doggy can breach DeepFreeze from version 5.7 to 6.2...
This animal is a Trojan downloader using hook tech getting into system's hard drive. <-QUOTE}Like the previous program which breached Deep Freeze, the user has to install an executable. Its success, therefore, depends on the security setup of the computer in use, that is, whether or not an unauthorized executable can install without the owner's permission.

----
rich

[Perman]

{QUOTE-> Like the previous program which breached Deep Freeze, the user has to install an executable. Its success, therefore, depends on the security setup of the computer in use, that is, whether or not an unauthorized executable can install without the owner's permission.

----
rich <-QUOTE}
Hi,
Nice to know this.
In other words, with the presence of AE from DF's vendor, these outbreaks are virtually impossible ?

[Rmus]

Any method of preventing the unauthorized installation of executables will work, including software restriction policies, limited user.

Thanks again for providing those translated pages!


----
rich

[Diver]

Deep freeze is really at its best on systems in public areas such as Libraries and internet cafe's. All of these utilities have problems in common. Special procedures are needed to retain downloaded files. Email generally will not be retained. AV updates will generally not be retained, and so forth.

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> Deep freeze is really at its best on systems in public areas such as Libraries and internet cafe's. All of these utilities have problems in common. Special procedures are needed to retain downloaded files. Email generally will not be retained. AV updates will generally not be retained, and so forth. <-QUOTE}

Yes special procedures are necessary:

(1) have a data partition or second drive and then move my docs to it.
(2) move your outlook pst or whatever if you use another mail program
(3) move the firefox profile

(1) is advisable for a number of reasons and (2) & (3) are not overly complex.
As to changes - just make a note that crap cleaner needs an update and turn off DeepFreeze or Returnil on your day off, and do the updates and then turn on again.

All the user has to get used to is the idea that anything saved to C: will NOT be saved.and should therefore be saved to D: or E: or even F:

I know that the desktop can be moved to another drive but I haven't told my family and now they have to keep the desktop clean or else loose anything left there. This aspect alone makes these programs essential for me.

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> (1) have a data partition or second drive and then move my docs to it.
(2) move your outlook pst or whatever if you use another mail program
(3) move the firefox profile <-QUOTE}Do you see the nonsense?
{QUOTE-> All the user has to get used to is the idea that anything saved to C: will NOT be saved.and should therefore be saved to D: or E: or even F: <-QUOTE}What if the Rootkit is invisibly placed on D:\?
Every restart it will be back ;-) No matter if frost is on or not.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> What if the Rootkit is invisibly placed on D:\?
Every restart it will be back ;-) No matter if frost is on or not. <-QUOTE}and precisely how will this piece of code execute, assuming the system boots from C:\, that all changes on C:\ are removed on a restart, and you're not relying on some bizarre and exceptionally improbable series of coincidences (say, you have an autostart entry referencing (for unknown reasons) an existing executable somewhere on D:\ that someone somehow knows is the precise one to replace in order to get malicious code to execute on the "frozen" system and you also haven't implemented measures to prevent the execution of unauthorized executables... or something along those lines...)?

Blue

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> Do you see the nonsense?
What if the Rootkit is invisibly placed on D:\?
Every restart it will be back ;-) No matter if frost is on or not. <-QUOTE}

No sorry I don't see the nonsense ? I have great difficulty seeing invisible and possibly imaginary things. It is difficult to take your "critiques" seriously as you seem to be in the habit of simply saying that almost everything that anyone writes is nonsense.

I should add that nothing I wrote in post #29 had anything to do with security. Your interests seem to be mainly about the extreme and remote possibilities of rootkit damage - you enjoy speculating about possibilities. I on the other hand use Returnil and Deepfreeze primarily to keep my systems running the way that I want them. I am far more likely to make an error and mess up C: than I am to suffer from a virus, malware, rootkit. I defer to your expertise on invisible and undetectable rootkits. Thanks for the tip about rootkits hardwired on to my mainboard by the manufacturer. I have taken my wirecutters and removed a few bits that look unnecessary on the board. Hope the smoke now coming from the machine doesn't mean that the little invisible undetectable hardware rootkits are getting angry ?

[clambermatic]

Here is another blog page maintained by a China-based netcafe chain, on the descriptions of the "robot dog - Aibo" botnet virus, specific solutions they utilized and advices ~ http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=zh-CN&u=http://blog.icafe8.net/%3Fid%3D92&sa=X&oi=translate&resnum=9&ct=result&prev=/search%3Fq%3D%25E6%259C%25BA%25E5%2599%25A8%25E7%258B%2597%25E7%2597%2585%25E6%25AF%2592%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG

...happy reading! ;)

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Robot is a Trojan downloaded, after infection will be automatically downloaded from the Internet Trojans, viruses, endangering user account security. <-QUOTE}See post #25 above.


----
rich

[EASTER]

Bunk!

Theres not a single new or even proof of concept rootkit that stands a chance anymore on a well guarded XP, and even if by some stretch an entry could be made, there are many options to remove it and it's manions. External Utility CD's for one or FD-ISR for another, and then theres classic Images after zeroing the disk provided one keeps his images/archives updated.

What's of most danger are destructive viruses which even they anymore are a joke and waste of time, at least for the informed & experienced. FD-ISR restored an entire 200GB x 3 partitions with nothing but archives stored externally. The time consumed restoring was peanuts, and with an image it's even faster yet.

Malware simply put is nothing more than lamers & script kiddies toys but their useless against today's strategies, and that's even minus any AV's.

Sorry but the overwhelming compliment of too many Sandboxes, Virtualizers, Images, not to mention snapshot archives make malware a useless endeavor better left in the middle ages IMO.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Bunk!

Theres not a single new or even proof of concept rootkit that stands a chance anymore on a well guarded XP, and even if by some stretch an entry could be made, there are many options to remove it and it's manions. External Utility CD's for one or FD-ISR for another, and then theres classic Images after zeroing the disk provided one keeps his images/archives updated.

What's of most danger are destructive viruses which even they anymore are a joke and waste of time, at least for the informed & experienced. FD-ISR restored an entire 200GB x 3 partitions with nothing but archives stored externally. The time consumed restoring was peanuts, and with an image it's even faster yet.

Malware simply put is nothing more than lamers & script kiddies toys but their useless against today's strategies, and that's even minus any AV's.

Sorry but the overwhelming compliment of too many Sandboxes, Virtualizers, Images, not to mention snapshot archives make malware a useless endeavor better left in the middle ages IMO. <-QUOTE}

True, but..... go ask your neighbor if he runs any backup images, Sandboxes, or FDISR. You most likely will get a very blank stare. We at Wilders might use these things but the average user I suspect not.

Pete

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> ... go ask your neighbor if he runs any backup images, Sandboxes, or FDISR. <-QUOTE}
I submit that the average user doesn't need "backup images, Sandboxes, or FDISR." I don't have them and the users I've helped over the years don't, and haven't been infected.

Why? Because the emphasis in these cases is on how to use email and browser safely, and obtaining programs/software from reputable sources.

The security solutions mentioned are certainly impressive, give one a secure feeling, and fun to play with. But in no way are they necessary for maintaining a secure computing environment.

"Each according to her/his needs."


----
rich

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> True, but..... go ask your neighbor if he runs any backup images, Sandboxes, or FDISR. You most likely will get a very blank stare. We at Wilders might use these things but the average user I suspect not.

Pete <-QUOTE}

That statement unfortunately is spot on Pete. And is the reason i get so many calls for HELP! my computer won't boot, or i can't make this stop, etc.

I take the effort now to sit down with my customers/clients and make them (as a condition for my time ;D ) learn basic HIPS prompts and what to look for as a prerequisite to my other demand which i always perform for them first, and thats imaging.

By the way, you guys got me involved in all this in the first place and opened my eyes which is saved myself endless wasted hours of confusion and reformatting which used to be the only alternative to turn to.

Thanks ;)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I submit that the average user doesn't need "backup images, Sandboxes, or FDISR." I don't have them and the users I've helped over the years don't, and haven't been infected.

Why? Because the emphasis in these cases is on how to use email and browser safely, and obtaining programs/software from reputable sources.

The security solutions mentioned are certainly impressive, give one a secure feeling, and fun to play with. But in no way are they necessary for maintaining a secure computing environment.

"Each according to her/his needs."



----
rich <-QUOTE}

Hi Rich

I sort of agree with you almost. Good friend of mind in college, was given a website, a program, and a code to download a program for use in a class. Bingo he is infected. Has some version of Norton on the system, and it didn't detect it. An image, FDISR type, or virtualization program, sure would have been a help. I am trying to narrow down exactly what happened.

Pete

[Long View]

I'm generally inclined to agree with Rmus - more emphasis should be put on
"how to use email and browser safely, and obtaining programs/software from reputable sources" and less on security programs.
Peter your example - "of Norton on the system, and it didn't detect it" doesn't surprise me. I am of the opinion that if I ever get a nastie on my system it will not be one of the x zillion that would have been stopped by almost any available
security program.

So I don't think (1) there is really much risk to "normal" users (2) any risk there is would not be mitigated by typical security programs anyway - no matter how many layers are worn (3) education is far more likely to be successful and (4) having images and freeze/virtualisation type programs can do little harm. It is far easier to show someone how to use Deep Freeze than it is to get them to use a HIPs program

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rich

I sort of agree with you almost. Good friend of mind in college, was given a website, a program, and a code to download a program for use in a class. Bingo he is infected... I am trying to narrow down exactly what happened. <-QUOTE}Hi Pete,

I also would like to know the circumstances, especially the user/security policies in place.

At the colleges where I worked, all computers have Deep Freeze, and only the System Administrators can install programs.


----
rich

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> and precisely how will this piece of code execute, assuming the system boots from C:\, that all changes on C:\ are removed on a restart, and you're not relying on some bizarre and exceptionally improbable series of coincidence <-QUOTE}Explain this: (booted from external windows cd, but s could not be located in fs only via process explorer)
http://i10.tinypic.com/6x1ijdl.png
and this
http://i7.tinypic.com/6yuiscy.jpg
The stalkers told once something about third boot sector, allegedly it should survive reformat. I am really not that deep in hardware to be able to give accurate information about such things. But maybe the mess also comes from soundcard or bios so reformating and restoring would not make too much sense in this case.
Probably we should make a test by avoiding the creation of D:\ and don´t think it´d help creating a "s" directory (like av companies want to make you believe as proactive protection), rkdetector2 showed once multiple hidden "s" dirs that coexisted friendly one by one, totally paradox. This method likely bypasses any kind of detection because you are no more able to write onto the malware to get any kind of error message or hints, looks like a parallel spooky harddisk dimension. ;-) I guess it shifts the OS into some kind of virtual matrix. Maybe its blue pill, lool, because Virtual PC receives a BSOD when starting with soundcard driver.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> Explain this: (booted from external windows cd) <-QUOTE}SystemJunkie,

I don't do parlor tricks on demand, and I don't diagnose from vague screenshots that don't provide a complete picture of the situation. The question still stands with respect to the specific question you posed (What if the Rootkit is invisibly placed on D:\? ): precisely how will this piece of code execute?

Blue

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> (What if the Rootkit is invisibly placed on D:\? ): precisely how will this piece of code execute? <-QUOTE}Very good and hard question but I assume there must be a possibility that we actually don´t know.

[Perman]

Hi,

You guys are talking about something in this situation?

you have partition C and D and have only "C" deepfreezied, while "D" is left out in cold ?

Then, any infection in "D" is user's own making. and is entirely out of DF's mighty reach, in other words, it is not DF's business, period.

Why did have only "C" protected in the first place ?

IMO, if you have all partitions (I mean all box) deepfreezied, none of these problems would have happened. Right ?

[SystemJunkie]

{QUOTE-> IMO, if you have all partitions (I mean all box) deepfreezied, none of these problems would have happened. Right ? <-QUOTE}Sounds interesting but you should be sure that the mainboard is clean ;-)

Mr.Stalker told me about his almighty power and even noticed my activities on a second harddisk that I unplugged when I went online with subject: 2nd data carrier detected. That was indeed the prove that he was even able to surveill activities beyond harddisk at deepest level what kind of possibilities remain?
Mainboard, Souncard, DVD Burner and Gra.card.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> Then, any infection in "D" is user's own making. and is entirely out of DF's mighty reach, in other words, it is not DF's business, period. <-QUOTE}Quite correct, but the only way something retained on D: will be executed on restarting is if program "X" is resident on D:, is set to automatically run on restart, and this infection has overwritten program "X". I'm assuming a direct user launch is not done. Any fiddling with C: to cause the launch of a program stored on D: is lost since C: is frozen. An elaborate scheme could be concocted (i.e. programs installed to D:\Program Files, but launched from a C: windows system disk, etc.), but let's keep it real.
{QUOTE-> Why did have only "C" protected in the first place ?

IMO, if you have all partitions (I mean all box) deepfreezied, none of these problems would have happened. Right ? <-QUOTE}At this point it is purely a hypothetical situation.

Blue

[clambermatic]

{QUOTE-> Explain this: (booted from external windows cd, but s could not be located in fs only via process explorer) <-QUOTE}

'Blue' had a legitimate query on that!

...hmm, on multi-boot setup? ...same file system/dir re: OS dir?? :o ....yikes, gotta have a tandem bottles of PaoLiTa-B or redBull first!

[SystemJunkie]

One thing is for sure a part of stalker mania comes from Russia because several psychoid mail texts are partially copied from russian websides.

So the thing is likely loaded as kernel driver but in which manner I actually don´t know probably these are russian secrets the only things which was strange as I started a partition manager D:\ was displayed as NTFS in Fat32 but I formatted it as FAT32 to prevent those nasty streams.

{QUOTE-> Quite correct, but the only way something retained on D: will be executed on restarting is if program "X" is resident on D:, <-QUOTE} So if D ´d be properly formatted (from a clean board) we could may be get rid of it. (except if it is a slow virus and all your cds/hds are infected, that would be the worst case and probably very unlikely but not impossible)

[EASTER]

I like to revive this topic once more because some very serious allegations have been made and i seen not a single report via link where DEEP FREEZE is dangerous to a windows systems hardware BIOS/CMOS.

If it is, that would be foolhearty to promote a program that could inevitable render a machine component damaged, and that IMO is legal liability grounds.

Damaging hardware as in the BIOS chip surely would be grounds for some uproar, but i yet to read into any of this.

Still, as a precaution and potential customer of this app, (I already use and trust AE), i like to hear more from other users of DEEP FREEZE and their experiences be it bad or good. Let's say from version 6.30 onward.

Thanks

[Long View]

Easter DeepFreeze is fine for me and has been no problem. I have 2 copies and use it on machines which tend to remain static - just windows updates, crap cleaner. I only freeze C: and have the outlook pst on a data drive together with
Firefox profiles.

Is it any better than Returnil et al ? well powershadow is out because it activates to one machine and has no simple way to reactivate to another + it crashed every so often. Shadow Defender caused a problem when I tried to restore an image having forgotten to turn off protection. So for me its Returnil and DeepFeeze.

If Returnil go for an annual charge rather than a one off payment I would probably go for DeepFreeze.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I like to revive this topic once more because some very serious allegations have been made and i seen not a single report via link where DEEP FREEZE is dangerous to a windows systems hardware BIOS/CMOS.

If it is, that would be foolhearty to promote a program that could inevitable render a machine component damaged, and that IMO is legal liability grounds.

Damaging hardware as in the BIOS chip surely would be grounds for some uproar, but i yet to read into any of this.

Still, as a precaution and potential customer of this app, (I already use and trust AE), i like to hear more from other users of DEEP FREEZE and their experiences be it bad or good. Let's say from version 6.30 onward.

Thanks <-QUOTE}

Easter, what is the source of that allegation.

[Long View]

post #7 in this thread ?

[farmerlee]

{QUOTE-> I like to revive this topic once more because some very serious allegations have been made and i seen not a single report via link where DEEP FREEZE is dangerous to a windows systems hardware BIOS/CMOS.

If it is, that would be foolhearty to promote a program that could inevitable render a machine component damaged, and that IMO is legal liability grounds.

Damaging hardware as in the BIOS chip surely would be grounds for some uproar, but i yet to read into any of this.

Still, as a precaution and potential customer of this app, (I already use and trust AE), i like to hear more from other users of DEEP FREEZE and their experiences be it bad or good. Let's say from version 6.30 onward.

Thanks <-QUOTE}
I've been using a DF for 6 months on 2 different systems and haven't experienced anything bad. Its been a rock solid, quality product just like AE.

[ErikAlbert]

A software that damages hardware ? That is ridiculous.
If they can't say anything bad anymore about a software, they tell you it damages your hardware, just because they don't use it themselves and they like to disappoint you.
If a software isn't working properly and they can't find the real cause, they blame the hardware.

I've read the same thing about PowerShadow and FDISR, your HDD will have a shorter life. ::)
I ignore all these silly remarks. If I ever use DeepFreeze, my hardware will be the least of my worries.
The only reason why I don't use DeepFreeze is because it's not versatile enough as an ISR-software, not because of my BIOS chip.

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> A software that damages hardware ? That is ridiculous. <-QUOTE}
CIH virus, copy-protection software and optical drives, software using 100 % of the CPU for long time causing it to overheat. Softwares that damages hardware are very rare, but not inexistent :)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> CIH virus, copy-protection software and optical drives, software using 100 % of the CPU for long time causing it to overheat. Softwares that damages hardware are very rare, but not inexistent :) <-QUOTE}
Yes, but there is a difference : DeepFreeze is not a malware, CIH virus is.
I can destroy many things on my computer and in general life, if I want to by using it the wrong way.
Give me a disk editor and I can destroy my whole harddisk too.

Regarding the CIH Virus I read this :
{QUOTE-> CIH spreads under the Portable Executable file format under Windows 95, Windows 98, and Windows ME. CIH does not spread under Windows NT, Windows 2000, Windows XP or Windows Vista. <-QUOTE}
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CIH_virus
Does that mean I'm immune for this virus, if I have a winXP computer ?

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Give me a disk editor and I can destroy my whole harddisk too. <-QUOTE}
With a disk editor you destroy the data, not the disk.
{QUOTE-> Does that mean I'm immune for this virus, if I have a winXP computer? <-QUOTE}
It seems so.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> With a disk editor you destroy the data, not the disk.
<-QUOTE}
Well, I had this one in mind : Julie Lau's Sector Editor v1.05., which I consider as a disk editor. (maybe my English is not good).
Sector, isn't that a part of a disk ?

[EASTER]

Thanks for all the feedback. I feel relieved now that those are just rumours and not to be taken seriously.

Looks like i'm going to do a DEEP FREEZE on one of my HD's and if everything proceeds as i expect, Faronic's just made another sale. I am head over heals about AE already, it's simple, stable, and puts "ME" the user IN CONTROL! That's the way i expect from any program, after all, i get a say in how and what happens on my own machine, and i admire software that's automated just enough to secure it but still leaves open an option to change my mind when i want.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Thanks for all the feedback. I feel relieved now that those are just rumours and not to be taken seriously.

Looks like i'm going to do a DEEP FREEZE on one of my HD's and if everything proceeds as i expect, Faronic's just made another sale. I am head over heals about AE already, it's simple, stable, and puts "ME" the user IN CONTROL! That's the way i expect from any program, after all, i get a say in how and what happens on my own machine, and i admire software that's automated just enough to secure it but still leaves open an option to change my mind when i want. <-QUOTE}
Yes DeepFreeze and Anti-Executable must be a strong combination, if you add security softwares, that do what AE doesn't do. Both are well hidden and password-protected. Very professional.
It's a pity, you can't rollback to an unused system partition, unless you restore an image.

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Well, I had this one in mind : Julie Lau's Sector Editor v1.05., which I consider as a disk editor. (maybe my English is not good).
Sector, isn't that a part of a disk ? <-QUOTE}
That disk editor (and others) only wipes the content of a sector. There's no physical damage.

[DasFox]

DF seems like a pain, if you don't want it messing with your OS and restore it then you need to reboot it thawed, then make changes you'd like in a thawed mode so nothing gets reverted back, then reboot and then set it Frozen again.

I don't know but this seems like a bit of rebooting and pain just to make changes... :(

I thought the point of DF was to protect it from unwanted changes, like form viruses, and malware, was all?

I just made a test folder with a test.txt file it, and rebooted with DF on, and it deleted the folder.

I don't see then how someone works in a Freeze mode on their desktop without everything always getting deleted and removed? :(

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> DF seems like a pain, if you don't want it messing with your OS and restore it then you need to reboot it thawed, then make changes you'd like in a thawed mode so nothing gets reverted back, then reboot and then set it Frozen again. <-QUOTE}I'm not sure that you've embraced the concept yet - the idea is to run frozen all the time, thawing only for the infrequent times you need to initiate a system change (install, uninstall, etc.)
{QUOTE-> I don't know but this seems like a bit of rebooting and pain just to make changes... :( <-QUOTE}That's actually the point - it's by design.
{QUOTE-> I thought the point of DF was to protect it from unwanted changes, like form viruses, and malware, was all? <-QUOTE}It does - they are removed on a restart.
{QUOTE-> I just made a test folder with a test.txt file it, and rebooted with DF on, and it deleted the folder.

I don't see then how someone works in a Freeze mode on their desktop without everything always getting deleted and removed? :( <-QUOTE}It takes advance planning and some adjustment of a typical system - you need an unfrozen partition or a removeable drive and you need to locate dynamic content there. In the enterprise level product, a virtual partition can be created on a single partition system.

Blue

[DasFox]

I thought the concept here was just to remove malware/suspect files was all, not to remove legitimate files and work, so that is where I made the mistake, as it says on their site:

Deep Freeze instantly protects and preserves baseline computer configurations. No matter what changes a user makes to a workstation, simply restart to eradicate all changes and reset the computer to its original state - right down to the last byte.

My misunderstanding, I thought this protection was for only malware changes not legitimate changes...

I can understand the point of protecting a partition and keeping it intact for no changes, I just wanted this for a HOME box was all, and for that it seems a little extreme.

It doesn't look like that difficult a piece of software, not much to it from the end-user stand point of doing anything.

For HOME users I don't get who would go to all this trouble to install Windows on a small partition just for the OS and DF, and just use that partition as example only for surfing, and nothing dynamic and then do all the dynamic work on D. To put it simply that would be the easiest way to go about it for a HOME user, but then that means you better not have DF watching the D partition either, but then if someone installs something infected into that partition, then you've sorted defeated the idea here for whole protection of a complete drive.

I see the point to DF for a corporate/business setting, but it would of been nice if they made a DF Home version that only dealt with malware removal and changes to a system nothing else, so a home user could use C just like it's typically used and worked on for most home users.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> I thought the concept here was just to remove malware/suspect files was all, not to remove legitimate files and work. <-QUOTE}The concept of Deep Freeze is to remove anything added (or undo any changes) since the machine was frozen. Keep the target market in mind - public access and institutional use PC's where unwanted and continual casual user changes are the typical bane.
{QUOTE-> But if you are going to use your C drive to work in like most people, I just don't get how you are going to do this if it's going to be removing new documents every time you create new word docs, etc., then it sounds like every time you want to work on the partition you have to thaw it, then reboot and freeze, then reboot and thaw, back and forth back and forth. <-QUOTE}The answer is you either change the way you work or the system configuration. For example - relocate Documents and Settings to an alternate partition. Once you do that, usage is transparent and the work files are preserved. As I mentioned, there are other options available in the enterprise level product (typically including access to network drives).

{QUOTE-> I have 3 partitions on 2 300GB drives.

1 drive is C & D. C is a 25GB partition that I work from and D is storage.

E is the complete drive just for storage.

I mean who is going to install Windows on a 8-10GB partition just for the OS, put DF on it only to use C to surf with, and do all your work on the D partition... <-QUOTE}Well, given their quoted installed base in their target market, plenty.

Blue

[DasFox]

I edited my reply before you replied look again.

It looks like maybe the 'Mapping Tool' provides the user some flexibility where possibly typical home users are concerned.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> I edited my reply before you replied look again.

It looks like maybe the 'Mapping Tool' provides the user some flexibility where possibly typical home users are concerned. <-QUOTE}That appears to be the case, but I've not used it personally.

Blue

[EASTER]

Blue is On-Target as always yet again.

DEEP FREEZE in my honest opinion for most will not for very long appeal to a single drive/machine user nor should expect to be unless they don't mind the occasional REBOOT TO THAW to add items then back to FROZEN state. But then again theres always some flexibility in dual-boot set ups etc. and of course the MAPPING TOOL to take some of the sting out of the Standard version's sealtight concept.

AFAIK this type of approach is exclusive and IS really better suited (as mentioned) for public or even some private industry networked set ups where there you get into the ENTERPRISE level of DF, which is quite the concept and advantage in those environments.

For home (Standard) users however, it is still yet another solid & reliable alternative to keeping your system safely in-check.

[DasFox]

This is a great and simple program, I personally don't get why they haven't expanded on it, and made a DF Home version just for virus/malware changes is all, hmmm... ;)

Maybe it's time to email and let them know how great this would be...

Hmm, Hmm, Hmm... :P

Oh lookie a feedback section:

http://www.faronics.com/html/feedback.asp

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> I personally don't get why they haven't expanded on it, and made a DF Home version just for virus/malware changes is all, hmmm... ;) <-QUOTE}Well, from a straightforward commercial business perspective - they have a clear core competency that they have succeeded in and serve well. Perhaps they've made a conscious decision to focus on that strength. Yes, additional sales would accrue if they went to the home market, but support costs would rise dramatically. They're in a very good niche at the moment.

Blue

[DasFox]

Well I sent them a nice reply with some good ideas and input, hope they'll reply and tell me what they're thinking.

[demoneye]

{QUOTE->
Shadow Defender caused a problem when I tried to restore an image having forgotten to turn off protection. So for me its Returnil and DeepFeeze.

If Returnil go for an annual charge rather than a one off payment I would probably go for DeepFreeze. <-QUOTE}

100% AGREE have same isue with SD when restore img 2...sysytem take to load very veryyy long time. remove SD and all load like normal

cheers:dry:

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> 100% AGREE have same isue with SD when restore img 2...sysytem take to load very veryyy long time. remove SD and all load like normal

cheers:dry: <-QUOTE}


thanks for reminding me. Yesterday I bought a copy of Shadow Defender. As far as I can tell the problem with restoring to a frozen C: is now fixed in version 1.1.0.216 beta if i try to use Acronis to restore to a frozen (shadowed) C: the restore faila and now the machine reboots correctly. Restoring to an unfrozen C:
does seem to take a little bit longer (9 minutes rather than 7) and on my old Pentium 4 ( soon to be deceased) initial launches do seem just that bit slower.
As I'm going to put this program on a fast machine I don't think it really matters.
I do wonder though how deepfreeze, Returnil, and Shadow Defender operate.
are they all equally suited performance wise or is one better than the others on lower spec machines ? I think for older machines DeepFreeze might have the edge.

[pidbo]

Yes I agree with you Demoneye, this is one ofthe most significant things for me, Shadow Defender crawls (for me) on reboot at times when under load...one of my reboots was nearly five minutes...the computer was chattering away to itself...I went away for a cup of tea.
Deep Freeze boots up as normal.
I like Shadow Defender a lot...if all of the changes that Tony hopes to make, happen and some of the problems were ironed out, (such as Nero needing to be re-activated occasionally and the reboot time length problem) it could be a fantastic program and more useable (for me) than deep Freeze...but Deep Freeze has a "solid" "feel"

{QUOTE-> 100% AGREE have same isue with SD when restore img 2...sysytem take to load very veryyy long time. remove SD and all load like normal

cheers:dry: <-QUOTE}

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Yes I agree with you Demoneye, this is one ofthe most significant things for me, Shadow Defender crawls (for me) on reboot at times when under load...one of my reboots was nearly five minutes...the computer was chattering away to itself...I went away for a cup of tea.
Deep Freeze boots up as normal.
I like Shadow Defender a lot...if all of the changes that Tony hopes to make, happen and some of the problems were ironed out, (such as Nero needing to be re-activated occasionally and the reboot time length problem) it could be a fantastic program and more useable (for me) than deep Freeze...but Deep Freeze has a "solid" "feel" <-QUOTE}

I've never seen this issue, with SD. Only time there is a delay, is with the new commit whole disk. Then you see the progress screen on reboot.

Pete

[Long View]

Have you tried it on an old machine 512 meg of RAM 75 gig IDE drive -- none of your RAID cheating ;D

Seriously I would be interested to know if these programs are all working in the same way ( which I doubt) and are some faster then others ? My feeling is that
DeepFreeze6 is "faster" but it can only be noticed on inferior hardware. Returnil
is somewhere in the middle of these 3.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Have you tried it on an old machine 512 meg of RAM 75 gig IDE drive -- none of your RAID cheating ;D

<-QUOTE}

I haven't had one of those for over 4 years.;D I honestly can't tell you about speed. My choice was feature based. Re Deepfreeze, for me, I rate their products excellent, but too restrictive for me. They are better for static machines, and mine aren't. Always changing stuff.

Pete

[demoneye]

{QUOTE-> I haven't had one of those for over 4 years.;D I honestly can't tell you about speed. My choice was feature based. Re Deepfreeze, for me, I rate their products excellent, but too restrictive for me. They are better for static machines, and mine aren't. Always changing stuff.

Pete <-QUOTE}
you got a point there pet ... but if u realy done use this exclusion list in SD.... DF is better in all ways.

:)

[farmerlee]

I run deepfreeze on an old p3 866mhz, 256ram, 20g hdd. Theres no noticeable performance impact. This comes as no surpise tho as deepfreezes system requirements are the same as the OS it is installed on.

[demoneye]

{QUOTE-> I run deepfreeze on an old p3 866mhz, 256ram, 20g hdd. Theres no noticeable performance impact. This comes as no surpise tho as deepfreezes system requirements are the same as the OS it is installed on. <-QUOTE}

totaly agree. i run ut on p-3 933 with 512 ram no performance impact at all
btw the best way to test any performance impact is using some old pc and see... new one are so strong hard to feel the performance impact at all :dry:


cheers:thumb:

[QQ2595]

{QUOTE-> totaly agree. i run ut on p-3 933 with 512 ram no performance impact at all
btw the best way to test any performance impact is using some old pc and see... new one are so strong hard to feel the performance impact at all :dry:


cheers:thumb: <-QUOTE}

As I know, the first ISR was invented in Taiwan in 1996/1997 and soon widely used in chinese internet cafes. please guess which CPU was popular in 1997? ;D