Security Suites

[chillyb9]

Hello. Perhaps I'm dense (someone will surely say so :) ) but can anyone direct me to somewhat definitive reviews regarding AV/Spyware/Malware Suites? I've been through cNet, your site, Googling, ConsumerSearch, blah, blah, blah...If I'm going to spend $60 bucks, it better be damn good, and free or lost cost that ain't worth a damn doesn't cut it either.

Used to be a fan of Norton, then it became so bloated it was as bad as any virus or software (& hard to get rid of). Went with Trend Micro last year & liked it, but now I have the PcCtlCom.exe issue (I loved my Spybot S&D, but was fed up with the supposed conflict which caused the PcCtlCom.exe file to suck up resources. What am I looking for? Performance, protection, good interface, minimal resource hog & plays nice with other anti-spyware.

There seems to be nothing definitive on the internets (sic). Thanks for letting me vent.

[Baldrick]

Personally I would recommend KIS 7 (been using it and KIS 6 before that after I gave up the bloat that was NIS 2006) but I hear that NIS 2008 is light and very effective in most areas...if you liked Norton before it may pay you to have a look at the latest version?

Anyway, I find PCMag's reviews pretty good. Have you seen these in your web travels? If not then give the following link a look:

http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,2704,2186662,00.asp

It may be of assistance?;D

[AaLF]

Why don't u try OnLineArmor - it uses Kasperky Anti-Virus engine. Plus it has an excellent FW and HIPS.

http://www.tallemu.com/

Kaspersky is rated LAST in ToP TeN Reviews.:o

And Eset - NoD32 didn't make it to the starting gate. :'(


#1 BitDefender Internet Security
#2 McAfee Internet Security
#3 Norton Internet Security
#4 CA Internet Security
#5 F-Secure Internet Security
#6 PC-cillin Internet Security
#7 Panda Internet Security
#8 Norman Internet Control
#9 ZoneAlarm Internet Security
#10 Kaspersky Internet Security *puppy*

Link to rogue site removed

[ASpace]

-{ Quote: "Kaspersky is rated LAST in ToP TeN Reviews.

And Eset - NoD32 didn't make it to the starting gate" }-

That is because you are looking in the wrong place . toptenreviews.com is nonsense

[Baldrick]

-{ Quote: "That is because you are looking in the wrong place . toptenreviews.com is nonsense" }-
HiTech is absolutely correct. TopTenReviews are IMHO not worth the internet space that they are written in. Look elsewhere for your information. Just compare the contents of the review for BitDefender, that they rank first, and Kaspersky...they are not comparable. IMHO opinion they have not even looked closely at Kaspersky or the Suite ranked 9th (ZoneAlarm). And that should tell you everything.

BTW I hear that the latest Online Armor is well worth a look and I would be giving it serious consideration if I was not already running KIS 7.

[acr1965]

I have KIS 7 and am liking it a lot. There have a few issues with Vista but they have mostly been fixed. If you have Vista you will not be able to run Online Armor. Otherwise it is a very good choice as well.

Before spending $60 for KIS you may want to find a free after rebate or OEM. I used the KIS trial then bought an OEM ($24 including shipping) then inserted the OEM's key into the KIS I already had installed from the Kaspersky web site and all worked well. Frys.com usually has FAR offers and freebieroundup.com has a list of them as well.

Another option for a suite, I believe Avira still has their 90 day security suite trial going.

http://www.avira.com/en/evaluate/vnu.php

If you are from the UK or Ireland, KIS had a 6 month trial offer that may still work, worth checking out anyway.

http://www.kaspersky-labs.co.uk/trials/reg/kis7/

Whichever you decide, be sure and run a trial first.

[AaLF]

Aw..come on you guyz. I was only jokin'. Look at my siggy, I use NoD32 meself and I did recommend Kaspy AV (inside online armor). ;D

http://www.geocities.com/tisatashar/it.jpg

[HURST]

I would suggest to try different suites and see which one runs smoothly on your system. Most of the good AV offer trial versions.
If I had to give an oppinion, I would suggest ESET suite. Haven´t tried it, but NOD32 runs very light on my system and has very good detection rates.

[Baldrick]

The ESET Suite is not IMHO mature yet (tried it during the beta phase and liked what I saw) but it certainly has great potential going forward as it is for the same stable as NOD32.

But in the final analysis I think that Hurst is quite correct...get a download/trial of the principal players and give each a try. KIS works for some and not for others, as is the same with them all. You just have to read through the posts to see that.

Good luck.;D

[chillyb9]

Wow! Thank you guys! I never thought of the trial route - makes sense, when you think about it. It's funny because after I posted I came across a post from the administrator regarding peoples opinions about security suites & how user experiences vary, and I thought, ya know, he's right. One person's gold is another's garbage, but I also like the multiple opinions of users - generally, if 20 people have tried something, & they love it, like ir or have nothing bad to say, it's a pretty good indicator that the odds are, you'll have a good experience.;D ;D

[trjam]

let me add one more to the mix to trial.:thumb:

[AaLF]

Well actually....

For myself... I wouldn't go down the sweet road. Suites comprise of two main things, AV and Firewall. And nowadays a dash of HIPS and anti-Malware.

You can pick up some great free FireWall/Hips combos nowadayz. e.g.

Online Armor Free
Webroot Desktop
Comodo

Now these blokes are on top of firewall/hips stuff. For the moment. And things keep changing. And there are numerous combos one can put together not mentioned that are possibly stronger. This forum is abuzz with word about them and talk of pluses and minuses of adding this to that. The Sweets on the other hand are down the firewall pecking order, though KiS is hanging in there and Eset:NoD32 didn't have a firewall when the testing was being done.

Here look at this;

http://www.matousec.com/projects/windows-personal-firewall-analysis/leak-tests-results.php

Look at those famous names;

AVG
Avira
McAfee
Norton


All mud. :P

But if you research their AV capability the results will be different (in some cases).

So what I'm suggesting is a free firewall/Hips and a damn good AV is the way to go, or at least consider. ;)

And its fun crossing this with that and swapping that with this. Or perhaps you have a life away from your computer?

[Rico]

Hi ChillyB9,

How about a different approach:

NAT'd router with SPI (stateful packet inspection). No software FW. Returnil, or ShadowDefender, or Deepfreeze. AVG AV free on demand, SuperAntispyware on demand.

Surf all the bad places catch any virus, trojan, rootkit while in shadow mode, reboot & malware is gone.

Take Care
Rico

[Baldrick]

-{ Quote: "Well actually....

For myself... I wouldn't go down the sweet road. Suites comprise of two main things, AV and Firewall. And nowadays a dash of HIPS and anti-Malware.

You can pick up some great free FireWall/Hips combos nowadayz..." }-, etc.

Now whilst I do not subscribe to tisatashar's view (before using NIS for a number of years I built my own suite from seperates) as I believe that the integrated approach is better from (i) the compatability and (ii) the updates; single source, point of view.

Having said that his comment is valid and you should consider it carefully in the mix of options that you have before you...and then decide what is best for you in terms of protection, resource usage, functionality, your time required, etc.;D

[mercurie]

I wouldn't give PCMag. much credit either. :thumbd: Never heard of topten. I am skeptical of all of these magazines and sites that claim to have the answer through reviews and testings. I prefer in depth testing details about what is in the tests. Like many that are talked about around here. Mags are written for the masses. You are better off hanging here at the Wilders to get your best info. Other respected security sites too (not just Wilders). Wilders just happens to be my favorite. ;D

One final point, promotional offers are not a bad solution either. Trials too. sooner or later you will need to make a choice and remember you are not locked into a one choice forever as things will change. I use to hate Norton. It looks like it has come back and is well worth my consideration.

[Baldrick]

Hi mercurie

IMHO your are perhaps being harsh re. PCMag reviews. Whilst I agree with you about the possibility of bias and not too thorough investigation by the magazine-related reviews a small number (including PCMag) are useful and in my experience at least are certainly on the right track when it comes to identifying the good, the bad and the ugly. They are useful in the sense that to get tests on all that is out there via sites like Wilders is just not going to happen especially in the case of what I would call 'fringe' or not yet mainstream products, etc., and so fill a potential gap.

My suggested approach would be to see what the reputable mags have to say (if anything) about a specific suite and then, as you suggest, canvas the opinion of the learned at Wilders and the like...being careful not to start an A vs. B thread.

As for TopTenReviews...well, forum rules would frown on what I would like to say...so I won't.;)

Bottom line is that all information is good information if source is consdiered and the information is used appropriately...but very bottom line is go for a trial and see for yourself, whether it is a suite or a combination of separates.;D

[hydrostarr]

[Preface: I originally created this post as the start of a separate thread instead of a followup to this thread ( http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=190957 ). The site admin(s) merged this post into the current thread.]

How might I figure out the best AV/Firewall package(s) for me?

I mostly run Windows machines (XP on laptops/workstations; various stuff on servers) and Linux boxes (mostly Debian-flavored stuff). I focus mostly on the Windows side of things here for various reasons (ask me why if you want).

I have been a TrendMicro/PC-Cillin user for several years, mostly because I found excellent reviews for said software on cnet.com compared to Norton and McAfee products. But that was back in years 2003 or 2004 or something like that.

Now I'm taking a fresh perspective, and I'm wondering how I can answer this question now. Wilderssecurity.com seems to be the most-popular discussion place for such stuff.

Here's a few specific questions I have:

NOD32/ESET seems to be quite popular here (Wilderssecurity.com)? Why is that? It runs in the middle of the pack for AV checking per the http://www.av-comparatives.org/ reports. Is it faster, smaller, cheaper, better for some other reasons? Are the "best checking" software packages at http://www.av-comparatives.org/ much more expensive and/or targeted for enterprise applications?

What about firewalls vs AV packages? ESET seems to be new to this. Is Windows XP-SP2 firewall "good" or "good enough"? (On Linux servers I run, especially my public web servers, I simply watch the open TCP/IP ports and ensure that the things listening there--usually sshd, email server, and Apache--are proactively managed for security purposes.) I found my PC-cillin package seems to have a nice all-in-one AV-and-firewall solution; does ESET have this and does it work well?

I prefer "self-managed" packages that update themselves; TrendMicro/PC-cillin seems to do this reasonably well.

But how am I to evaluate all the other combos of firewalls/AV packages on the http://www.av-comparatives.org/ list? Should I?

Thanks for any help/guidance,
-Matt

[WSFuser]

Middle-of-the-pack? Its does excellently on proactive detection and it usually gets Advanced+ for the ondemand tests.

For firewalls, the Windows Firewall is good for inbound protection. For outbound protection you should look elsewhere.

And yes ESET has a suite though its their first one. Give it a trial and see if it works for you.

[hydrostarr]

-{ Quote: "Middle-of-the-pack? Its does excellently on proactive detection and it usually gets Advanced+ for the ondemand tests." }-

Section "6. Summary results" of http://www.av-comparatives.org/seiten/ergebnisse/report15.pdf has NOD32 ranked almost exactly in the middle of the 15- or 17-product rankings for each category (subsections a), b), and c) ). Hence my term "middle of the pack." Looking at these results alone, TrustPort looks like the clear winner.

Thoughts?

What other ways might use besides testing/trail-ing things myself (which is exactly what I'm looking to avoid to save massive amounts of time) to determine what might be "best" for my usage?

-{ Quote: "For firewalls, the Windows Firewall is good for inbound protection. For outbound protection you should look elsewhere." }-

So does this community general accept that Windows Firewall is generally appropriate/good enough and that one generally need not using an alternative firewall solution?

[WSFuser]

-{ Quote: "Thoughts?" }-
Looking at it like that, yes NOD32 was placed in the middle, but did you see the percentages? Its just 2-3% that separates it from TrustPort.
-{ Quote: "What other ways might use besides testing/trail-ing things myself (which is exactly what I'm looking to avoid to save massive amounts of time) to determine what might be "best" for my usage?" }-
There is no way to know how any AV will work on your computer, so youll have to try them one by one.

Generally Avira, NOD32, and Kaspersky are the usual/popular recommendation so you could try those first.

[hydrostarr]

The biggest question (or question set) I have right now revolves around NOD32.

Why does NOD32/ESET have such a dominating presence at at http://www.wilderssecurity.com when it's marginally ranked at (as per my detailed reference above):

http://www.av-comparatives.org/

?

Is it because of a popular legacy? Was it (NOD32) once free and/or are there free vs. for-pay versions? Does it rank better compared to others because of speed or user interaction (things that don't appear to be measured in the above report) or other things?

Separately: I would love to see a poll started (if one does not already exist?) asking about AV/malware/firewall package usage (or maybe some subset of the above) and asking people to chime in why they use the package(s) they do as opposed to alternatives. Is anybody up for starting such a poll, and if so, what product subsets should we list? Maybe a separate poll for AV vs. malware vs. suite packages?

(btw- if I sound ignorant it's because I am; hence why I'm asking a lot of questions here.)

[WSFuser]

Well ESET does have their support forums here...

As for a poll, check the Polls section of the forum (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46). Theres several about AV/FW/HIPS etc.

[hydrostarr]

-{ Quote: "Looking at it like that, yes NOD32 was placed in the middle, but did you see the percentages? Its just 2-3% that separates it from TrustPort." }-

2-3% is a lot in my book, especially when comparing 99+% to 97% and considering that one missed attacking agent (virus, malware, etc) can cause many undesirable problems.

-{ Quote: "Generally Avira, NOD32, and Kaspersky are the usual/popular recommendation so you could try those first." }-

Excellent info, thanks.

I'm quite interested in why these products are the usual/popular recommendations. Can anyone offer their speculation on why others like these and/or their own opinion on why they prefer the above products (Avira, NOD32, Kaspersky)?

Separately...but somewhat related...

The world seems to have turned upside down on me in the AV product sector, and this isn't a bad thing, I'm just trying to figure out why.

Around 2003, I was familiar with AV products by Norton, McAfee, and TrendMicro; they seemed to dominate the SMB (small-to-medium business) and smaller-enterprise environments that I witnessed. Now I see almost a completely different landscape of AV products, and I'm trying to figure out why. Was I just completely ignorant of how popularly-used non-Norton, non-McAfee, and non-TrendMicro were back in 2003? Were Avira, NOD32, Kaspersky around then? Were Winders Security Forums around in 2003?

[hydrostarr]

(fyi: the posts from WSFuser and I are crossing paths a bit here...sory for any confusion.)

-{ Quote: "Well ESET does have their support forums here..." }-

Ah, that does provide some perspective.

-{ Quote: "As for a poll, check the Polls section of the forum (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/forumdisplay.php?f=46). Theres several about AV/FW/HIPS etc." }-

Ahhhh....the polls forum helps a bunch. Thanks!

[BlueZannetti]

-{ Quote: "2-3% is a lot in my book, especially when comparing 99+% to 97% and considering that one missed attacking agent (virus, malware, etc) can cause many undesirable problems." }-2-3% is meaningless without a consideration of the intrinsic noise in a challenge test. In fact, the group responsible for the test strongly suggest that one should look at the category ratings (Advanced+/Advanced/Standard) in preference to raw percentages. There are a few ways to casually assess the test noise, one would be via an internal validation subset simulation, the other would be to examine detection ratings in alternate "comprehensive" evaluations. If you actually do this latter analysis (I have), differences less than ~3% are likely in the noise.

Blue

[WSFuser]

-{ Quote: "I'm quite interested in why these products are the usual/popular recommendations. Can anyone offer their speculation on why others like these and/or their own opinion on why they prefer the above products (Avira, NOD32, Kaspersky)?" }-
Well they offer good detection and run light.

If you want people's (individual) opinions, read the polls and read past threads. Dont create a new thread though as its against rules.
-{ Quote: "Were Avira, NOD32, Kaspersky around then? Were Winders Security Forums around in 2003?" }-
Yes and yes.