Returnil

[maddawgz]

Hi, I think this program is great, a few questions when my AV updates or spybot etc do i have to turn of protection? reboot ? alot of reboots etc, or is there a better way to let your updates through and installs you want..... cheers MD ;D

Edit
can i remove my AV etc i wont really need it, if this deletes everything ccleaner the lot yes?

[Chuck57]

I get my antivirus first thing in the morning before Returnil gets turned on. I have discovered one thing. If you have a second hard drive, you can save things over there and Returnil won't delete them. Antivirus, etc of course is different, but yes, Returnil has to be off or all updates will be lost.

I wouldn't remove the antivirus, just make sure you get your updates before engaging Returnil.

[innerpeace]

I turn Returnil's protection on manually after updating my anti's. I mainly use it's protection for risky ventures. If you plan on using its protection all the time, you will have to save that information to another location other than your system partition.

Play around with it before you give up your normal protections. You still need to protect your data/information from being stolen while using Returnil.

[dja2k]

I already have "My Documents" in a second drive and made a shortcut for it to the original location. I have installed updating programs to that second drive as well. I have "Windows Automatic Updates" turned off as I manually update about once a month so they wont mess with Returnil. This is what I use for full time Returnil Virtual Protection while keeping "My Documents" and "Updates" during its protection. I still turn it off and do full imaging with ATI, then turn it back on.

dja2k

[tradetime]

I run my desktop 24/7, and simply let AV update as normal, when I reboot usually at the weekends I simply let the AV update again before applying session lock, no biggie.

[Tony]

I update every time i have to reboot my computer, not every time there is an update.
Although my AV does still update whilst system protection is on, then i should effectively always be up to date.

(Hope that makes sense)

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I run my desktop 24/7, and simply let AV update as normal, when I reboot usually at the weekends I simply let the AV update again before applying session lock, no biggie. <-QUOTE}

As i read thru this thread the obvious is not always close at hand !

thanks.

[ErikAlbert]

To keep the good changes :
You have to turn OFF any automatic updating of all softwares, including Windows. This is an one-time operation.

Each time, when you want to update your system :
1. Reboot first, because that cleans your system.
2. Unfreeze your system.
3. Do all your updatings and NOTHING else.
4. Freeze your system
5. Reboot, if recommended by the ISR-software.
This procedure can be used for any ISR-software.

For all the rest keep your system constantly FROZEN and certainly when you try new stuff, you only have to reboot to get rid of it.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> To keep the good changes :
You have to turn OFF any automatic updating of all softwares, including Windows. This is an one-time operation.

Each time, when you want to update your system :
1. Reboot first, because that cleans your system.
2. Unfreeze your system.
3. Do all your updatings and NOTHING else.
4. Freeze your system
5. Reboot, if recommended by the ISR-software.
This procedure can be used for any ISR-software.

For all the rest keep your system constantly FROZEN and certainly when you try new stuff, you only have to reboot to get rid of it. <-QUOTE}

But now we are talking about Returnils sessionlock related to updating your AV-signatures and the different kind of strategies to follow.

[ErikAlbert]

I wonder why Returnil-users are still using scanners, to find "nothing" or what ?
Returnil removes any change during reboot, including viruses, spyware, ... anything. So what's the point of using scanners ?
An old habit from the past perhaps ???

You only need security softwares that stop the execution of malware. That's all.
Softwares like SSM, AE, DW, ...

[dja2k]

{QUOTE-> You only need security softwares that stop the execution of malware. That's all.
Softwares like SSM, AE, DW, ... <-QUOTE}

Not running any Scanners here! I am mainly using Online Armor and Pro Security on a separate drive cause I want it to remember my user actions. :D

dja2k

[Long View]

If you really have to use an AV consider turning off auto updates and manually unpdating every few days. An alternative approach might be to remove your AV as a real time program and to load it when the returnil protection is on. You will then be able to check to be as sure as you can be that you are clean and get rid of the program when you reboot. If you build up a small collection of free AS and AV programs you can the load and run them when you have nothing better to do.

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> I wonder why Returnil-users are still using scanners, to find "nothing" or what ?
Returnil removes any change during reboot, including viruses, spyware, ... anything. So what's the point of using scanners ?
An old habit from the past perhaps ???

You only need security softwares that stop the execution of malware. That's all.
Softwares like SSM, AE, DW, ... <-QUOTE}
I leave my system running for days, usually 5 at a time, I guess I'd like to know if anything has slipped on during that time so I run a real time AV

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> Hi, I think this program is great, a few questions when my AV updates or spybot etc do i have to turn of protection? reboot ? alot of reboots etc, or is there a better way to let your updates through and installs you want..... cheers MD ;D

Edit
can i remove my AV etc i wont really need it, if this deletes everything ccleaner the lot yes? <-QUOTE}

Hi maddawgz,
One thing I do not see mentioned here is the use of the System Protection Scheduler in 1.70.

The example shown in the manual is not a recommendation, but it should provide guidance as to the possible configuration that would be acceptable for your setup. An added benefit is that you would not have to manually turn the protection on and off. It will require good coordination between your other scheduled tasks however.

For an AV, you could "split" and hour where RVS protection is off. An example of this would be:

1) RVS protection scheduled off for 01:00 - 02:00 every day. This means that at 01:01, RVS protection will reboot to turn the protection off.

2) Schedule your antivirus to perform an automatic update at 01:10

3) Schedule your Antivirus to perform a preffered type of scan at 01:20. This should give you 40 minutes to perform an automatic scan/detection/removal

4) At 02:00 RVS protection is scheduled to be on and will start again at 02:01 following the built in delay.

You can make the schedule tighter or looser depending on your needs and the scanning speed of your AV solution.

But the key here is that it can all be automated so you do not have to spend time doing this manually or watching your AV scan your system...

Mike

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I wonder why Returnil-users are still using scanners, to find "nothing" or what ?
Returnil removes any change during reboot, including viruses, spyware, ... anything. So what's the point of using scanners ?
An old habit from the past perhaps ???

You only need security softwares that stop the execution of malware. That's all.
Softwares like SSM, AE, DW, ... <-QUOTE}

Simple,If in sessionlock i let my AV scan downloads for HIDDEN nasties before i save them to a second partition for later use such as .exes,attachments,documents etc. Use AV only on demand and have disabled realtime protection ,so IMO they do have use in sessionlock . To kill the malware trying to load in memory i have Boclean,updated daily.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Simple,If in sessionlock i let my AV scan downloads for HIDDEN nasties before i save them to a second partition for later use such as .exes,attachments,documents etc. Use AV only on demand and have disabled realtime protection ,so IMO they do have use in sessionlock . To kill the malware trying to load in memory i have Boclean,updated daily. <-QUOTE}
OK. That's one of the valid reasons, why you still need scanners.
Just one AV to scan downloaded objects ? Why don't you use VirusTotal ?
http://www.virustotal.com/

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> OK. That's one of the valid reasons, why you still need scanners.
Just one AV to scan downloaded objects ? Why don't you use VirusTotal ?
http://www.virustotal.com/ <-QUOTE}


Thanks, Many engines to shoot the Bull !!

[maddawgz]

Thanks all for the tips, sincei think ill just manually update all once a week no big deal since pc is on 24/7, i have windows updates off anyhow, for the peace of mind spyware virus, accidental deletes i think its a small price to pay anyhow for once a week manual, I have a 1gig USB drive where i can save anything i need to anyhow, and for instalilng any software i think this is brilliant to test it out without always messing with the reg , wish i knew about this yr ago woulda saved me headaches, best of all its free :) cheers MD

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> Thanks all for the tips, sincei think ill just manually update all once a week no big deal since pc is on 24/7, i have windows updates off anyhow, for the peace of mind spyware virus, accidental deletes i think its a small price to pay anyhow for once a week manual, I have a 1gig USB drive where i can save anything i need to anyhow, and for instalilng any software i think this is brilliant to test it out without always messing with the reg , wish i knew about this yr ago woulda saved me headaches, best of all its free :) cheers MD <-QUOTE}
You can set you updater to notify you about updates, but not download or install, thus you will be alerted and can review the updates to determine whether you wish to update immediately or leave to next reboot.

{QUOTE-> I have a 1gig USB drive where i can save anything i need to anyhow <-QUOTE}
Returnil allows the creation of a virtual partition (VP) for the purpose of storing things like downloads, or files created, such as word documents or whatever you create on a computer, the contents of the VP are not erased on reboot and assuming you do not boot straight into session lock you can simply copy the VP contents to wherever it belongs on your hdd before engaging session lock.

[Coolio10]

Sorry to steal the thread but i recently installed returnil and have some quesitons. I just noticed i now want the virtual partition, do i just need to run the installer again? Also can you install programs in the virtual partition and run them inside the virtual partition so you can test programs that need a restart?

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> I just noticed i now want the virtual partition, do i just need to run the installer again? <-QUOTE}According to the documentation, the VP must be created during an installation process
{QUOTE-> Also can you install programs in the virtual partition and run them inside the virtual partition so you can test programs that need a restart? <-QUOTE}Generally, no. Typically, information will be placed outside the VP as well (registry, Windows directories, etc.) and this is lost on a restart. If the application is a portable/standalone program, then the answer is yes.

Blue

[maddawgz]

{QUOTE-> You can set you updater to notify you about updates, but not download or install, thus you will be alerted and can review the updates to determine whether you wish to update immediately or leave to next reboot.


Returnil allows the creation of a virtual partition (VP) for the purpose of storing things like downloads, or files created, such as word documents or whatever you create on a computer, the contents of the VP are not erased on reboot and assuming you do not boot straight into session lock you can simply copy the VP contents to wherever it belongs on your hdd before engaging session lock. <-QUOTE}

But what if u get a virus on VP? , or if u do doesnt it matter because your main drive is still protected reg windows etc.. trying to understand VP?

Qoate
Generally, no. Typically, information will be placed outside the VP as well (registry, Windows directories, etc.) and this is lost on a restart. If the application is a portable/standalone program, then the answer is yes.

ok so the things that get sent to reg important places windows etc still get delted on reboot? So think of VP as a storage device for things that you want to keep??? mite be worth installing that then and changing IDM download path to save there am i on the right track,cuz i was finding it a little anoying rebooting to turn off and on to save something i wanted to keep , and then there is the chance of a power cut and could loose things i downloaded, program gets better and better, saves me buying a external now Woot! :)

What is session lock?

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> But what if u get a virus on VP? , or if u do doesnt it matter because your main drive is still protected reg windows etc.. trying to understand VP? <-QUOTE}
Well imo the VP is largely a temp storage space, a holding area if you like, so whatever you save to your VP, you should examine and trust before you allow it onto your system proper, so if it is a questionable program for example, you can install it from the VP (assuming you are in session lock) and see what it does, if the result is something you don't like you simply reboot and all is gone except for the original program download in the VP which can simply be deleted. The exception to this of course is programs requiring a reboot to install, as the reboot will erase all the installation. If it passes your test and you want to keep the program then after reboot you can install the program before going into session lock.
Anything in the VP will still be there after reboot, until you decide to delete it, so power cuts are irrelevant, at least no more relevant than they would be saving data to your computer normally.

For session lock think protection. Essentially for the purpose of this discussion we can say there are 2 ways to use this program (I know there are likely many ways, but just for this discussion) You can set it up to automatically protect from boot, so that you are always in protected mode,(you might do this if other people use your machine, and you don't trust them to manually activate the program) or you can set it up as on demand. The latter is the way I use it, so everytime I reboot the program is passive, ie I am not protected, at this point I can update windows, and my AV, and these changes will stick. Then I activate session lock (turn on the protection) and now I am protected until the next reboot.

[maddawgz]

ok if u start in passive ie not protected, then update av's then do session lock doesnt it say reboot when you turn on protection? then you reboot and its in protected mode? so if u want to update av again you need to reboot? isnt that sorta same anyhow, I have it starting pretty much all the time, i might just update Av's once week etc and Windows sounds easier i guess.

Vista didnt like the Mounted drive though i got the BSOD error message after 4 or so reboots i think it detected it as hardware :( so thats out had to uninstall re-enstall just using minimal like before darn that was starting to sound good too but im still pretty happy overall with the program, example today i and friend installed some pc anywhere program to try remote what a mess, reboot all gone Phewwwwwww because i reboot like every 4days things ive downloaded I've put onto flash drive or burnt so dont need them no more..got a bad habbit of collecting Ex'es so that will help lol.... so works for me still ;D Tx again MD

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> ok if u start in passive ie not protected, then update av's then do session lock doesnt it say reboot when you turn on protection? <-QUOTE}
No, there is no requirement to reboot in order to enter session lock. If you had a program update to your AV you may have to reboot, but that is neither here nor there.
On my desktop for example, I boot into my working OS on Monday morning, if there are any windows updates I will download and install, same for any AV updates, if any reboots are necessary I will. Then I enable session lock. The next time I reboot this machine is likely the weekend, unless I have reason to think I have been infected with something.

My laptop, slightly different, I will boot into it when I need to, again I update windows, and AV if necessary, then I mount the VP (since this machine has only one single partition) If I have to download anything, I will save it to the VP, when I reboot all changes since session lock was applied except what is saved in the VP will be gone

I was under the impression this program supported Vista, but I use XP so not sure.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Well imo the VP is largely a temp storage space, a holding area if you like, so whatever you save to your VP, you should examine and trust before you allow it onto your system proper, so if it is a questionable program for example, you can install it from the VP (assuming you are in session lock) and see what it does, if the result is something you don't like you simply reboot and all is gone except for the original program download in the VP which can simply be deleted. The exception to this of course is programs requiring a reboot to install, as the reboot will erase all the installation. If it passes your test and you want to keep the program then after reboot you can install the program before going into session lock.
Anything in the VP will still be there after reboot, until you decide to delete it, so power cuts are irrelevant, at least no more relevant than they would be saving data to your computer normally.

For session lock think protection. Essentially for the purpose of this discussion we can say there are 2 ways to use this program (I know there are likely many ways, but just for this discussion) You can set it up to automatically protect from boot, so that you are always in protected mode,(you might do this if other people use your machine, and you don't trust them to manually activate the program) or you can set it up as on demand. The latter is the way I use it, so everytime I reboot the program is passive, ie I am not protected, at this point I can update windows, and my AV, and these changes will stick. Then I activate session lock (turn on the protection) and now I am protected until the next reboot. <-QUOTE}

Is the VP locked from diskaccess in every way,cause it can hold some bad stuff obviously.

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> Is the VP locked from diskaccess in every way,cause it can hold some bad stuff obviously. <-QUOTE}
I would imagine not, at least I see no evidence of this, in fact 99% certain not, but personally I don't see this as a risk for me

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I would imagine not, at least I see no evidence of this, in fact 99% certain not, but personally I don't see this as a risk for me <-QUOTE}

I ask this because VP means Virtual and by way of design should be isolated from the remaining C:\ or am i wrong !?! ???
Its a little weird cause VP survives reboot.

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> I ask this because VP means Virtual and by way of design should be isolated from the remaining C:\ or am i wrong !?! ???
Its a little weird cause VP survives reboot. <-QUOTE}
Hmnn.....I am sure I have installed software from the VP, not in the VP mind, but installed a program on my real system that had been saved to the VP and not copied over, this would indicate no isolation....yes....I will have to check to be sure.
I believe the VP is only technically isolated from the system when Session lock is on, but that is more a function of the session lock than anything else, as you could say when session lock is on everything is isolated from the system.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Hmnn.....I am sure I have installed software from the VP, not in the VP mind, but installed a program on my real system that had been saved to the VP and not copied over, this would indicate no isolation....yes....I will have to check to be sure.
I believe the VP is only technically isolated from the system when Session lock is on, but that is more a function of the session lock than anything else, as you could say when session lock is on everything is isolated from the system. <-QUOTE}

Sure a very exotic kinda Virtual coding,maybe should THE Solution because data survived the reboot ,and at the same time is virtual in Sessionlock !! For me its a mistery how this is possible.

[Peter2150]

If the virtual partition is mounted it isn't isolated from the system either with or with session lock. It becomes another disk. So yes you could download and put something there, reboot, and then install it from there. Same thing if you had a second disk.

Pete

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> If the virtual partition is mounted it isn't isolated from the system either with or with session lock. It becomes another disk. So yes you could download and put something there, reboot, and then install it from there. Same thing if you had a second disk.

Pete <-QUOTE}

I always thought so but then the naming is disturbing,VIRTUAL means something different as to how it works. Then you can easily say every location other then C:\ is by definition in Returnil language VIRTUAL. So the use of this term is somewhat misleading,nothing to do with real virtualisation .

[maddawgz]

Perhaps Vista didnt like the VP , wait to sp1 comes, ok i see session lock thanks ::)

[innerpeace]

{QUOTE-> I always thought so but then the naming is disturbing,VIRTUAL means something different as to how it works. Then you can easily say every location other then C:\ is by definition in Returnil language VIRTUAL. So the use of this term is somewhat misleading,nothing to do with real virtualisation . <-QUOTE}
Virtual because it's not a real partition. It's just a file named RVSYSTEM.IMG located in the C:\Returnil folder. The file is now hidden in the new Returnil version so you would have to enable show hidden files/folders. When the VP is mounted, you can move files back and forth at will. It's just like a real partition in that respect. It will also be visible when you access My Computer. You can also take the VP with you and use on other computers with Returnil installed.

From the help file:
{QUOTE-> The RVS Virtual Partition is a simulated drive. Creating and using this partition is neither difficult nor damaging to your system. Our technology uses a file to emulate the properties of a physical disk and can be accessed as you would any other drive or partition on your System. <-QUOTE}

[Empath]

Think of the virtual drive as any other drive, whether it's a separate partition on your main drive, a second or third hard disk, USB drive, thumb drive or whatever. As long as it's not your root drive "C", it s not a part of the Returnal protection. Just as any other drive, other than the protected drive "C" survives the reboot without loss of changes, then the virtual drive from Returnal would survive.

The virtual drive Returnal provides is nothing new. Virtual drives creators can be downloaded from freeware sites, or can be mounted within some encryption packages. Returnil's virual drive is not an essential, but is only a gift of convenience.

[fce]

i'm using Returnil 1.7 but everytime i restart my computer to erase Kernel_Power error in Event Viewer it doesn't erase the Kernel Power error.

but when i'm using Rollback Rx (Semi Freeze System) restore to previous/latest snapshot during restart....Kernel Power error in Event Viewer is gone.

does it mean that Semi Freeze system of Rollback Rx is better than Returnil?

[Firebytes]

Not sure if I should post this here (as the thread name is merely Returnil) or if I should start a new thread (Mods feel free to move it if needed).

I am having an issue with Returnil:

I have two computers which are both running XP home SP2. I am running the latest version of Returnil on both of them. I just noticed a problem tonight with Returnil on one of them.

On my laptop I can copy files from my C drive to the virtual partition or I can save downloaded files directly from the internet into the virtual partition. On my desktop I can copy files from my C drive into the virtual partition but I cannot save downloaded files directly from the internet and into the virtual partition. If I try to do so this is what I see:


I am under an administrative account on both systems and I have already tried uninstalling Returnil on the desktop system and then reinstalling it. I still get the same result. I never noticed this problem on the desktop system before tonight but I don't think I ever had to download anything directly into the VP on it before this either.

I was hoping Coldmoon or a Wilders member wiser than myself could shed some light into what is wrong with the program, the computer, or me. :wacko:

[Firebytes]

Oops, accidentally placed the attached image at the bottom of my last post instead of under "If I try to do so this is what I see:" but you get the idea, right? ;D

[tradetime]

could perhaps, you be using a download manager on one (the problem computer) and not the other? Just a thought to fill the time.

[Firebytes]

{QUOTE-> could perhaps, you be using a download manager on one (the problem computer) and not the other? Just a thought to fill the time. <-QUOTE}

No download managers on either computer. Actually both computers are basically set up the same with a few exceptions. The desktop has Cyberhawk installed and the laptop doesn't and the laptop has a Nvidia video card and the desktop has a built in card. There may be other small differences but I have mostly the same programs running on each.

Also, when I installed Returnil on both systems I made sure I disabled other running programs (antivirus, firewall, etc) when I did the installations.

This really has me puzzled because my accounts on both computers are administrator accounts and yet I can save on the one and not the other.

I will be gone until Wednesday morning but I look forward to coming back and having the answer to my problems waiting on me. ;)

[Firebytes]

I was thinking and the only real differences I can think of between the two computers is that the laptop has a SATA drive and the desktop doesn't. Also, I had to do a repair install of Windows on the desktop not to long ago but it was done before I ever installed Returnil.

Have a good day all.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> No download managers on either computer. Actually both computers are basically set up the same with a few exceptions. The desktop has Cyberhawk installed and the laptop doesn't and the laptop has a Nvidia video card and the desktop has a built in card. There may be other small differences but I have mostly the same programs running on each.

Also, when I installed Returnil on both systems I made sure I disabled other running programs (antivirus, firewall, etc) when I did the installations.

This really has me puzzled because my accounts on both computers are administrator accounts and yet I can save on the one and not the other.

I will be gone until Wednesday morning but I look forward to coming back and having the answer to my problems waiting on me. ;) <-QUOTE}

Have you tried turning off Cyberhawk. It may be protecting something.

[Firebytes]

OK, I am at work now but I wanted to take a second to let everyone know not to waste any more time trying to help me on this problem. I was thinking and I believe I figured out the problem. It basically boils down to this...I am an idiot.

I didn't even think of this because I have had it for so long but the browser I use on that computer is run under DropMyRights. I am almost 100% sure that is the problem. I do not use DropMyRights on the laptop. Since the browser has reduced rights I can't save to the virtual partition because that requires admin rights.

I will test it when I get home Wednesday and if that doesn't work I will try what Peter suggested.

Thanks for the help and sorry for my stupidity.:-[

[fce]

{QUOTE->

On my laptop I can copy files from my C drive to the virtual partition or I can save downloaded files directly from the internet into the virtual partition. On my desktop I can copy files from my C drive into the virtual partition but I cannot save downloaded files directly from the internet and into the virtual partition. If I try to do so this is what I see:

<-QUOTE}

does returnil save all download file "automatically" to Virual Partition (Z)?

mine is not or i dont see any file in my virtual partition whenever i download a file from internet.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> does returnil save all download file "automatically" to Virual Partition (Z)?

mine is not or i dont see any file in my virtual partition whenever i download a file from internet. <-QUOTE}

No. System does what it normally does, If you want the download saved you either change download location or move it.

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> OK, I am at work now but I wanted to take a second to let everyone know not to waste any more time trying to help me on this problem. I was thinking and I believe I figured out the problem...

I didn't even think of this because I have had it for so long but the browser I use on that computer is run under DropMyRights. I am almost 100% sure that is the problem. I do not use DropMyRights on the laptop. Since the browser has reduced rights I can't save to the virtual partition because that requires admin rights... <-QUOTE}

Hi Firebytes,
This is exactly the reason for the permissions error. Limited users do not have write access to the root of the VP. To work with this without issue in the future, simply create a folder in the VP and then save the files in this folder.

Mike

[Firebytes]

OK, I tried saving in the VP while not using a browser under DropMyRights and it worked fine. I then created a folder in the VP and was able to save into it even with my browser running under DropMyRights just as Coldmoon said.

So once again it was just my own ignorance that was causing the problem. I guess if I knew everything I wouldn't need to come to this forum though, huh. ;D

Thanks for taking the time to respond Coldmoon. The quick support here for Returnil is one of the reasons I like it so much.

Thanks again to everyone else who responded as well.

[Long View]

Just rebooted with Returnil protection on and received a message saying can not
create win.ini Problem seemes to be related to a program called Speed Startup
http://www.regvac.com/speedstartup.htm I rebooted and the problem was gone.

My only interest was to know how this is possible if returnil is returning a system state to a previous state ?