Why do people use so many programs...

[Metal425]

Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly.

[Chris12923]

Well first off this is a security forum so a lot of people here want to feel very secure. Second yes PC's will boot much faster without all the security programs running but will it continue to be faster once it gets infected by malware? Suites are probably ok by a safe surfer but if you are a high risk surfer than just a suite alone is probably not the best choice. Security is usually better in a layered setup. Yes we can become safer surfers but most people aren't going to change their surfing habits just so the PC boots up faster or runs just a tad faster. Although some people including myself are using more or less frozen PC's using FDISR or Rollback RX. Boots/runs faster and sometimes even cheaper than the 6+ security softwares.

Thanks,

Chris

[Metal425]

-{ Quote: "Well first off this is a security forum so a lot of people here want to feel very secure. Second yes PC's will boot much faster without all the security programs running but will it continue to be faster once it gets infected by malware? Suites are probably ok by a safe surfer but if you are a high risk surfer than just a suite alone is probably not the best choice. Security is usually better in a layered setup. Yes we can become safer surfers but most people aren't going to change their surfing habits just so the PC boots up faster or runs just a tad faster. Although some people including myself are using more or less frozen PC's using FDISR or Rollback RX. Boots/runs faster and sometimes even cheaper than the 6+ security softwares.

Thanks,

Chris" }-
Yeah, but you don't need all that to be safe, you can still be safe with a simple setup, such as KIS 7.0

[mercurie]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-Good question, complex answer and is different for everyone. You see by my sig I don't use much. I test around some, but rely heavily on those smarter then me for their thoughts and opinions on stuff. So I am glad some to see so much security being tested in various combinations

Mr. Slowsky turtle in the Comcast commercial sitting at his computer, "Ahhh me time". ;D That would be me. Wilders is a part of that time for sure ;)

[cheater87]

If you computer gets attacked and the malware attacks the suite then all your defenses would go down in one swift blow. You will be open to attacks.

[Metal425]

Still you could have a backup, but I mean.. you don't need 6+ programs, unless you're on a public network.

[Chris12923]

-{ Quote: "Yeah, but you don't need all that to be safe, you can still be safe with a simple setup, such as KIS 7.0" }-
Yes it might be ok if you are safe surfer other than that maybe most of the people on this forum are wrong and we all should switch to KIS 7? I doubt it but if it works for you thats all that matters.

Thanks,

Chris

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-
I think there is a small set of people here who tend to overuse the security apps (meaning too many), but I also think that many of the people posting here also consider this stuff a hobby of sorts and just enjoy trying out and testing various security apps. I know I fall into that category. Right now I am just using the router and an AV, nothing else, because that's all I really need. But that doesn't stop me from trying out new apps as I see them appear, or updated apps that I like. But everyone has a different idea of what security means, and most people use whatever makes them feel comfortable I think.

[Metal425]

-{ Quote: "I think there is a small set of people here who tend to overuse the security apps (meaning too many), but I also think that many of the people posting here also consider this stuff a hobby of sorts and just enjoy trying out and testing various security apps. I know I fall into that category. Right now I am just using the router and an AV, nothing else, because that's all I really need. But that doesn't stop me from trying out new apps as I see them appear, or updated apps that I like. But everyone has a different idea of what security means, and most people use whatever makes them feel comfortable I think." }-
Yeah, I love testing security apps.

[screamer]

-{ Quote: "I think there is a small set of people here who tend to overuse the security apps (meaning too many), but I also think that many of the people posting here also consider this stuff a hobby of sorts and just enjoy trying out and testing various security apps. " }-

Exactly how I see it. Over the past year or so, I've curbed my appetite so to speak and settled on a combination that I feel keeps me safe (include FD- ISR and call me bullet proof) and keeps my box running proficiently. Start-up ~60sec.

...screamer

[WSFuser]

It is a wonder for those running so much security, but I keep quiet and just enjoy my lone AV and FW.

Anyways its all a personal preference. To each their own.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-

Hi Metal:

Good question.

It's how users see risk and how interested/concerned they are to minimize it.
How many is too few? I would say 3 functions covered or 1 suite covering those functions. Prevent, detect and destroy tools are what we are dealing with here. If people are not safe surfers they won't change.

Active/ real time?

I have 4 now, used to have only the 3.

A good FW (2 way) an AV and a ASW plus PG 2 which gives me blocking on outgoing packets which are my main concern.

I'm not trying to justify my layered approach just describe it for your thread.

You can go suite but in my view that isn't a promise it will take less resource than the layers. But picking one is quicker and you must be willing to put all your trust into 1 vendor. Maybe you are but I'm not prepared to do that.

Password generation and management and an image based backup setup is just as important as these security tools. Maybe more important.

[Chuck57]

I've had so much stuff on this computer, and on others, that I'm embarrassed to admit it. I finally started over, reformated, added the free (then) Paragon HD manager and tried more, and more, then reset everything to the beginning thanks to Paragon. I now have Blink Personal with antivirus and that's all.

[Carver]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-
To put it simply your on a forum with more computer security experts than you could shake a stick at and your wondering why we are so heavily armed :blink: Each security software has a function, the area it covers is limited. Layers of security apps are more effective than just 1 or 2 apps.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

In my production setups, it's only Firewall + Firefox. Boot times are 10-15 seconds to login screen, another 30-40 for services to load, plus another minute for machines with VMware adapters (which take some time). Linux machines boot in about a minute or so, completely.

BTW, if you think Windows is fast with a few apps, Linux is USS Enterprise at Warp 9. Even the Windows virtual machines on Linux are faster than native Windows... :) Especially the networking.

I do have test setups, with tons of this and that, but that's a different story altogether.

Sorry, I do have a few machines with AV, but they are mainly dormant.

Mrk

[Meriadoc]

I'm pretty much the same as the above post but as for why do people use so many programs I believe its just a process some go through, a learning curve gradually chipping away the software with knowledge.

[twl845]

I try not to duplicate security software with the exception of my Anti-spyware apps. I use one in real time and one for on demand. I use BoClean which attacks trojans as they try to open, and SpywareBlaster, a little app that just sits there and blocks malware. My AV is NOD32, and I have FDISR for snapshots and Acronis TI for images. and of course my Comodo FW. Of course I won't have to use them all at the same time, but hopefully they each have a slightly different function.:)

[LUSHER]

-{ Quote: "To put it simply your on a forum with more computer security experts than you could shake a stick at and your wondering why we are so heavily armed " }-

Actually has as being mentioned before real security experts run a lot less security products than you might think.

Some don't even run Antiviruses, much less all that HIPS stuff. :dry:

So please don't judge someone has a "security expert" because he runs several layers, anyone with spare time and cash and can do that... lol...

[Metal425]

-{ Quote: "Actually has as being mentioned before real security experts run a lot less security products than you might think.

Some don't even run Antiviruses, much less all that HIPS stuff. :dry:

So please don't judge someone has a "security expert" because he runs several layers, anyone with spare time and cash and can do that... lol..." }-
Good point :thumb:

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "Hello,

In my production setups, it's only Firewall + Firefox. Boot times are 10-15 seconds to login screen, another 30-40 for services to load, plus another minute for machines with VMware adapters (which take some time). Linux machines boot in about a minute or so, completely.

BTW, if you think Windows is fast with a few apps, Linux is USS Enterprise at Warp 9. Even the Windows virtual machines on Linux are faster than native Windows... :) Especially the networking.

I do have test setups, with tons of this and that, but that's a different story altogether.

Sorry, I do have a few machines with AV, but they are mainly dormant.

Mrk" }-

Gotta agree with you, sir. I've run Ubuntu live CD and even it loads much faster than windows. I'm now waiting on 5 linux install/live CD's to arrive to try out a few more different flavors, and for a DSL upgrade which will speed things up considerably so I can download even more.

Ubuntu, PCLinux, Right now, I think one of them is going on this box as my OS. I still want to try Freespire or SimplyMepis though. Heard good things about Mepis.

[Carver]

-{ Quote: "Actually has as being mentioned before real security experts run a lot less security products than you might think.

Some don't even run Antiviruses, much less all that HIPS stuff. :dry:

So please don't judge someone has a "security expert" because he runs several layers, anyone with spare time and cash and can do that... lol..." }-
"Real security experts" know just which security products to use to be effective and to be a "Real security expert" takes time. One does have to learn, as you say anybody can do it with spare time and cash.

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "I believe its just a process some go through, a learning curve gradually chipping away the software with knowledge." }-
Completely agree.

[Kerodo]

-{ Quote: "
Ubuntu, PCLinux, Right now, I think one of them is going on this box as my OS. I still want to try Freespire or SimplyMepis though. Heard good things about Mepis." }-
Chuck...

You really can't go wrong with PCLinuxOS 2007, or Ubuntu for that matter. Both are great, I give a slight favorable edge to PCLOS personally. I set up SuSE 10.2 today to have another look, I like it's look and feel perhaps best of them all. But no doubt you will enjoy both...

[herbalist]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-
Security suites often have as many running processes as a security package made from separate components and can slow a system just as much or more.
Several years ago, I used Norton Internet Security. My system took almost 2 minutes longer to boot up than it does now with separate security apps and 4 more that run once at bootup. It's also more stable and quite a bit faster now. The number of security apps being used isn't the main factor, It's how much memory, processor power, and disk space the processes use.
Rick

[maddawgz]

Ocd lol..... jk.. i only run 3 rest are online scans ::)

[innerpeace]

-{ Quote: "I'm pretty much the same as the above post but as for why do people use so many programs I believe its just a process some go through, a learning curve gradually chipping away the software with knowledge." }-
I've gotta agree with this also. Originally I was using suites and ran out of cash and started using separate free components. My machine was way faster. I began to learn more and kept hearing about using many layers of protection. I'm fairly layered right now ;D and I'm still learning. I only activate my virtualization apps when things are going to get rough. I'm now debating on disabling my AM, but I'm not going to do that until I have the knowledge to do so safely. That takes time and a lot of research. Unfortunately the research is never ending as malware development and vulnerabilities are constantly changing.

I personally don't think my active programs are excessive, some will argue. It's all about trust and how much control you feel you have or need. The more I trust and learn about Sandboxie, the more I will consider changing my setup. Like many people here, our setups are based around a single application or 2. All my programs must be stable, and work with OA2 which is the center piece of my setup. I also need to learn more about it and how a HIPS works. It all boils down to what are you comfortable with and does your setup work well with your system.

innerpeace

[LUSHER]

-{ Quote: ""Real security experts" know just which security products to use to be effective and to be a "Real security expert" takes time. One does have to learn, as you say anybody can do it with spare time and cash." }-

Not as easy as you think even with spare time and cash, you need some brains and effort spent learning... Much easier to slap on a dozen "layers" and go around "heavily armed"...

Come to think of it, that probably requires very little effort... I can teach anyone to be heavily armed by giving them a shopping list.. Does that make them a security expert?

Being "heavily armed" has nothing to do with being an expert. From the wording of your earlier sentence, you seem to be confused on this point...

[TOMxEU]

-{ Quote: "So please don't judge someone has a "security expert" because he runs several layers, anyone with spare time and cash and can do that... lol..." }-
Good point, I am a good example. I am a noob in comparision to other Wilders members, I even do not know, how TCP works, not that I would care anyway. I believe, that noone actually need security aplications as long as he follows 3 simple rules like: do not use scripting in a browser by default (just allow trusted webpages), do not open HTML emails and attachments, do not open unknown files (like installing an unknown software and so on) and that is it, no big deal.

So it is quite easy to be protected against automatic malware and a protection against real hackers just does not exist, NSA gets hacked no matter what.

But the point is, that it is uncomfortable, lets just imagine using a browser without scripting, it is a terrible idea, is not it, especially, if you get used to it?

Talking about anti-aplications, it is quite simple. As the old saying goes, “A lie repeated often enough eventually becomes the truth.” So you "NEED THEM".

The other side is a layered defense, that can be usefull, in case a man would do a mistake, but lets not forget, it is the man, who gives 99,95% protection.

[Carver]

-{ Quote: "Being "heavily armed" has nothing to do with being an expert. From the wording of your earlier sentence, you seem to be confused on this point..." }-
People here at wilders are heavily armed compared to the average computer usser.
-{ Quote: "Not as easy as you think even with spare time and cash, you need some brains and effort spent learning... " }-
As you note it does take some brains and effort spent learning.

[gerardwil]

For fun, (beta)testing, trialling, curiosity.

Gerard

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-
If use only 3 real security softwares on my computer, instead of 30+.
Is that acceptable for you or is it still too much ? :)

[Escalader]

See you guys,;D I'm done with this thread. It's getting silly IMO.:)

[EASTER]

It's really a toss up on what a user prefers compared to the most useful setup.

Following myriads of different discussions over the months i personally lean to simplicity if at all possible. For example, a solid HIPS running in tandem with AE plus Power Shadow "AND" Sandboxie now.

This config can be with or without FD-ISR, with AE i don't use FD-ISR because of caution recommendations to compatibility.

But the underlying and most useful protections aside from those for myself is what some have been preaching over a long time, IMAGING! I make images from 2 different programs and store them on alternative partitions/Hard Drives in case of malicious penetration thru the above mentioned shields.

So far so good.

[LUSHER]

-{ Quote: "People here at wilders are heavily armed compared to the average computer usser." }-

True but this has nothing to do with your statement that there are more security experts than you can shake a stick at... (BTW your statement is overstating things, unless you consider an "expert" has someone who loves to run security programs)

-{ Quote: "
As you note it does take some brains and effort spent learning." }-

That refers to becoming a real security expert, and not a pseduo one who is confused about the difference between being truly knowledgable expert and one who just runs around heavily armed....

[LUSHER]

-{ Quote: "Good point, I am a good example. I am a noob in comparision to other Wilders members, I even do not know, how TCP works,
" }-

Actually, you are not as noob as you think, there are lots of people here who can talk and tell you all about hips but have no idea about how TCP works either...

I repeat do not confuse playing with security programs with being knowledgable about security...

[twl845]

Before I began frequenting Wilders I was as ignorant as they come about security software and how they work and rate. I learn something every day here from all who post. If it weren't for the people in this forum I would never have even heard of apps like FDISR, PerfectDisk, NOD32, Sandboxie, SuperAntispyware, AVG AS, etc. The average person never sees these apps in a store. I think I have accumulated a good affective arsonal just from frequenting this forum. A tip O' the hat to all.;D

[ahriman]

This thread really resonates with me right now!

I'm working on understanding how security works. Fooling around with (probably) too many security apps too :). Wilders forums is wonderful for pointing me in directions I would never have found on my own.

Really, I am beginning to believe that knowledge of TCP/IP is vital, so am reading Steven's famous books on the subject. Real security, IMHO, happens in the 'real' world. I only have a (very) superficial understanding of most of the apps I use and the ones I'm testing.

Also, how malware really works. Does one have to play with malware in a test environment to get a 'feel for it'. Opinions please! I'm inclined to think so. How can one fight something one doesn't understand?

[Carver]

When I first came to Wilders posting Anonymous was still allowed, I posted as Carver. I was registered as carver at other forums as Carver, just not at Wilders. I am registered now as carver at Wilders. I am learning at about Programs like Bufferzone; DefenceWall; SSM; Sandboxie; NOD32; Avira; BOClean; A-Squared; SuperAntiSpyware; Spyware Terminator; Cyberhawk. To think I just came here because the official forum for NOD32 is at Wilders.

[LoneWolf]

-{ Quote: "Ok, so I was looking in a thread of what security programs you guys run, and I see people that run like 6+ active security programs.
I mean your computer must take forever to boot up.
You could just get a suite, or become a safer surfer.
It's insane how much faster their computers could be, without 6 active security programs running constantly." }-


Yes some of the members here like to have a layered defense instead of a security suite.
Myself, i've used suites before but prefer the layered approach.
Each program I use has it's own job with little or no overlap.
As far as boot time is conserned,just a couple of minutes here which is not bad.
Also it is still quite fast online.
Become a safe surfer ? The web is not the safest place to be, sites that should be safe could and do still become compromised and infected.
So I say "to each their own" whatever makes you safe ;D

[Metal425]

-{ Quote: "Yes some of the members here like to have a layered defense instead of a security suite.
Myself, i've used suites before but prefer the layered approach.
Each program I use has it's own job with little or no overlap.
As far as boot time is conserned,just a couple of minutes here which is not bad.
Also it is still quite fast online.
Become a safe surfer ? The web is not the safest place to be, sites that should be safe could and do still become compromised and infected.
So I say "to each their own" whatever makes you safe ;D" }-
I never said I liked Suites but 10+ programs is overkill.
I don't even use a suite, I run a layered protection, and I prefer it over Suites also.

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "I'm working on understanding how security works." }-
I'm in the same boat. TCP/IP, cryptography, filetypes, scripting, OSes, etc.

[LowRider]

Well most of this is like a foreign language to me but I'm here to learn. That's why I just registered recently. There's much to sort thru and I'm sure over time maybe I'll get a much better grasp on things.

[Metal425]

-{ Quote: "Well most of this is like a foreign language to me but I'm here to learn. That's why I just registered recently. There's much to sort thru and I'm sure over time maybe I'll get a much better grasp on things." }-
Welcome to the forums Low. ;D :thumb:

[LowRider]

Why thank you Metal. I appreciate it.:thumb:

[LUSHER]

-{ Quote: "I'm in the same boat. TCP/IP, cryptography, filetypes, scripting, OSes, etc." }-

Doesn't that describe pretty much everybody here? That doesn't stop us from running around "heavily armed"...

[herbalist]

-{ Quote: "I believe, that noone actually need security aplications as long as he follows 3 simple rules like: do not use scripting in a browser by default (just allow trusted webpages), do not open HTML emails and attachments, do not open unknown files (like installing an unknown software and so on) and that is it, no big deal." }-
Assumptions like that can get you owned.
just allow trusted webpages
Trusted sites get hacked too. Check the thread about the Bank of India. Could just as easily have been your bank, or another site you trust. No site can be completely trusted because no site is hackproof. "Trust" is hazardous to your PCs health.

do not open HTML emails and attachments
If this works for you and those you know only send text, great. I regularly receive files and links of interest via e-mail, so it won't work for me. Besides, that would make e-mail incredibly boring.

do not open unknown files
Unless you have a totally static or unchanging system, you open files unknown to you very time you add a new program or allow an auto-updater to run. Every installer that you don't store locally is unknown to your system. Installing an updated version of your browser should be a safe process but there's no guarantees. You can't know for certain that the site wasn't hacked 5 minutes ago and that a trojan was added to the download. You could check the file's digital signature against the one posted on the site to make sure they match, but that could have been changed to match the compromised download. True, this is unlikely, so how about something simpler? The editor of the webpage got the links mixed up and it leads to the wrong version for your OS. Mistakes happen. Did you check the signature before you opened it? What precautions did you take before launching the installer? An install monitor? A system backup? Did you shut down any security apps? Why?

A file doesn't have to be malicious or compromised to be dangerous. If it's incompatible with your system or another app you use, the results can be just as bad. A minor update or new feature can cause this. Same questions, what precautions did you take beforehand? What about auto-updates? Even some AV vendors have released updates that were so badly written that they crash the entire security suite. You can wake up to find the auto-update that ran last night has caused a BSOD that only a system restore can fix. Do you have an inage of your system from before the update? How old is it?

How many security apps a user has or how many processes are security related does not translate into being more secure. A user can have 30 security processes and have gaping holes in their system. A user can have 3 security apps running and be well protected. Mine varies from 3 to 12, depending on what I'm doing with several more that run once at bootup. Normal on my box is 7 security/privacy related processes. Their combined performance hit on my PC is less than a typical resident AV and far more effective.
-{ Quote: "Really, I am beginning to believe that knowledge of TCP/IP is vital, so am reading Steven's famous books on the subject." }-
If you're working with firewall rules, a basic knowlege of the main protocols TCP, UDP, ICMP, the numbering system for IP addresses, ports-the difference between open, closed, and stealthed, how DNS works, etc is very useful. You don't have to become an expert on the subject, just pick up on the basics.
-{ Quote: "Real security, IMHO, happens in the 'real' world. I only have a (very) superficial understanding of most of the apps I use and the ones I'm testing.
Also, how malware really works. Does one have to play with malware in a test environment to get a 'feel for it'. Opinions please! I'm inclined to think so. How can one fight something one doesn't understand?" }-
Working with real malware isn't really necessary to set up a good security package. If you're interested in researching malware, how it works and how to defend against it, definitely use a test unit. This is a huge field that branches in many directions. A serious study of malware is a full time job just to keep up with it. This is the type of study that you can dive into and not come out. I occasionally use a testrig to study how a specific exploit works or to see if my security package is sufficient to defend against certain threats, but it's by no means necessary to go this far. Security is a very relative term, secure against what or who, and for how long? Total security doesn't exist.
Rick

[TOMxEU]

-{ Quote: "... Security is a very relative term, secure against what or who, and for how long? Total security doesn't exist." }-
I agree with everything, PC can be infected in a min (via zero-day exploit or by an user's intervention) or never, no matter, what security software is used, if any, but as long and it works for me, I have no reason to change it and the same attitude applies to everyone, does not it, whetever it is a security software or not.

[Rasheed187]

I think people are using a lot of tools because they want to be protected against as much as possible. IMO, 4 realtime security tools is reasonable though, I mean it´s obvious that you need a layered protection, at least that´s what many people believe. My ideal setup would be AV/AT/AS (all in one), firewall, HIPS + sandbox. A suite would be an option, but standalone apps are often better IMO. Btw, currently I´m running 3 realtime security tools and they don´t slow down my system at all. My boot time is only 90 seconds.

@ LUSHER

-{ Quote: "So please don't judge someone has a "security expert" because he runs several layers, anyone with spare time and cash and can do that... lol..." }-

Yes correct, but like I often said to you in our PM conversations, it´s obvious that most people over here are no experts, but they have a special interest in security tools and like to test and discuss them. Of course, it also depends on what you mean with "expert". Compared to people who don´t know anything about PC security, a lot of us over here can be labeled as "experts" (or as I call it "amateur-experts" ;D) , of course you also got the true experts (like you?) who know a bit more than only which tools to use for protection.

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "Doesn't that describe pretty much everybody here?" }-
I don't think so.
-{ Quote: "That doesn't stop us from running around "heavily armed"..." }-
That's a personal choice. In my view, my security setup is very simple:
- Whitelisted web content (third-party browser + plug-ins)
- Network access control (rule-based firewall)
- A layer of isolation between the applications and the OS core (policy-based sandbox)
- Locked OS (hardening)
- A tripwire system (integrity checking + logs from forensic -rootkit scanners, Autoruns, RunScanners, etc- tools).
- On-demand scanning of new files.
- Data encryption.
- Backup system (imaging + file backup + media redundancy)

[ahriman]

herbalist:
If you're working with firewall rules, a basic knowlege of the main protocols TCP, UDP, ICMP, the numbering system for IP addresses, ports-the difference between open, closed, and stealthed, how DNS works, etc is very useful. You don't have to become an expert on the subject, just pick up on the basics.
Yes, true (I just like this stuff).
Working with real malware isn't really necessary to set up a good security package. If you're interested in researching malware, how it works and how to defend against it, definitely use a test unit.
I guess I should just use my old laptop (poor thing). Yes I can see this area can get addictive. Browsing some of the code from rootkits.com ... scary. I didn't realize rootkits could be so stealthy. Hiding in bad blocks on the disk, in some hardware on the motherboard. Yikes!

Absolute security is, of course, impossible (without turning the computer off and pulling the plug). It all makes me wonder about the direction to go for excellent security. FDISR, Returnil, EQSecure (which I've downloaded but not tried yet). I'd like to try AE but hear it conflicts with FDISR. Whitelisting seems a very good way to go...much shorter list.

[EASTER]

-{ Quote: "I'd like to try AE but hear it conflicts with FDISR. Whitelisting seems a very good way to go...much shorter list." }-

I was cautioned myself that there exists compatibility issues using both so as a workaround, if you can call it that, i partition a drive. One partition keeps FD-ISR on it with the usual security shielding programs while the other i run AE on, and believe me, it's nice to LOCK away potential files that might pose a threat and WHITELISTS those you approve of that are safe.

[ahriman]

EASTER,
I just saw your recent post on the EQSecure+Sandboxie+Returnil? thread. So you run two copies of XP? I could buy another XP and install it on one of my other hardrives, and have 'both worlds'. Thanks for all the feedback!

[EASTER]

-{ Quote: "EASTER,
I just saw your recent post on the EQSecure+Sandboxie+Returnil? thread. So you run two copies of XP? I could buy another XP and install it on one of my other hardrives, and have 'both worlds'. Thanks for all the feedback!" }-

If you can make it work for you, all the more. I can't verify at all about XP Home. Mine is a XP Pro Volume License which is more flexible for multiple PC's in my studio, hence i could fill each wall with a system if so inclined. My research requires multiple systems and is why i opted for that License.