13 Reasons why Linux won’t make it to a desktop near you.

[Dogbiscuit]

{QUOTE-> You’re a marketer who finds an exciting new product developed by some really smart people. A great product few people have heard of is the Holy Grail of marketing – all you have to do is tell everyone about it, and the world will beat a path to your door. Isn’t that the theory?

When you look more closely, you find it’s not that simple. In fact, you find a set of insurmountable obstacles. Here’s a short list: <-QUOTE}
Marketing Mayhem (.pdf) (http://www.technoledge.com.au/pdfs/linux_desktop.pdf)

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

I read this ... curious piece of nonsense. Here are my comments:


1. Not correct. For example, Novell have lots of money.

2. Not correct. See above.

3. Once Linux goes mainstream and it will, you'll be able to purchase distros from shops, which come bundled with support. CD itself for free, plus 3 years of support for money, for instance.

4. Linux is advertised quite enough. But apparently, we count only people who ever only used Office or Outlook and subscribe to AOL.

5. Simple anti-geek nonsense.

6. Cowards give up too easily. Finding the right distros is very simple, just like finding the right car for you.

7. Unexpected problems like wga invalidating your genuine Windows, for example?

8. Why should you talk to other users? No, no! Don't ever consult with people who already use the product. Call tech support in India and wait 40 min for someone to answer...

9. Simple anti-geek nonsense.

10. Some people create things for the sake of beauty, not just for money.

11. They mean they lack the capacity to understand the topic at hand, so instead of blaming their ineptitude, they blame the people who actually understand things. Like saying two doctors consulting over a patient's diagnosis are squabbling over trivia.

12. Yes, that's called democracy, but MS bots can't understand that.

13. Completely irrelevant.


I really don't know who wrote this, but it's either a big joke or a spree of a child who didn't get enough toys.

Mrk

[Franklin]

{QUOTE->
6. Cowards give up too easily. Finding the right distros is very simple, just like finding the right car for you.
Mrk <-QUOTE}
Well Mrk, if I gave the 500 different distros each a weeks trial to try and find my ideal one how long would that take.;)

If anyone tries Ubuntu make sure you use a very short password as you have to enter it twice before getting into desktop, or so it seemed the time I tried it.

Slow, clunky and hard to navigate are a coupla other things that I remember.
eeny meeny miny moe (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Comparison_of_Linux_distributions)
{QUOTE-> # 1 Debian-based

* 1.1 Knoppix-based
* 1.2 Ubuntu-based

# 2 Gentoo-based
# 3 RPM-based

* 3.1 Fedora-based
* 3.2 Red Hat Enterprise Linux-based
* 3.3 Others

# 4 Slackware-based

* 4.1 SLAX-Based

# 5 Others <-QUOTE}

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

I can cut down the choice for you to 5.
Ubuntu, SUSE, PCLinuxOS, Sabayon, SimplyMEPIS.

You can find the same info if you wrote "five most popular, easier distros" in Google.

Ubuntu does not require your password twice. Only once. Trust me on this one.

Slow - impossible.

Clunky, hard to navigate - when was this? How long did you invest in learning the new Linux? 1 hour? 10 hours? Or did you perhaps expect that after 15 min it would become a safe and fast Windows.

As to -based:

You have XP Media Edition, XP Tablet Edition .... and so forth, you get quite a few products ... but for some reason, this does not seem confusion ...

It's really simple, if people put away their bias.

Mrk

[Lamehand]

{QUOTE->

If anyone tries Ubuntu make sure you use a very short password as you have to enter it twice before getting into desktop, or so it seemed the time I tried it.

<-QUOTE}

Well, that's a new one to me, i only have one password and that's enough to get into the desktop, if it wasn't for that HD-crash recently it would still work. ;D

If i read it correctly in that pdf-file several governments and local governments in Europe are going to ditch Linux again, after commiting to it to cut the cost and the dependency of one software-supplier.
I don't see that happening. Even in my small country the government has stated that they are going to push for the use of open source software.

Regards
Lamehand

[Longboard]

{QUOTE-> You have XP Media Edition, XP Tablet Edition .... and so forth, <-QUOTE}
Heh: you forgot: Vista: Media, business, home , premium, Crapola, Shitty and all other flavours
::)

Check the attachments: think this is not great fun and a look to MY future: all free and under rapid devt.

I'm really having a good time with this stuff: and no stupid security configs to get up and running. :)

It's just a matter of time before i have WIndows as VM in Linux or A Mac.

lol ymmv.
;)

[Franklin]

Good to see you've got a couple of user manuals in there Longboard.

Ya gonna need em! ;D

[19monty64]

I think someone didn't read the whole article, or didn't read it with an open mind! The part about WindowsAir (crashing without warning) , MacAirlines and LinuxAirlines was hilarious! What I got from the article was frustration of the writer with all OS'es. Windon't is too expensive and unstable. Apple is too expensive and close minded. And Linux comes in way too many flavors and is too complex for us "simple-folk." It actually sounds like he's hoping Linux will become mainstream, and in the meantime he'll stick with Windows, because it's ready to go, right from the showroom without having to look under the hood!

[Longboard]

{QUOTE-> Good to see you've got a couple of user manuals in there Longboard. <-QUOTE}LOL, Heh; those are the damn VM and VBox manuals.
Never really read 'em just up and go. Go there when it breaks. :-X

so far they are the weak point :P
I know its a bit OTT; but it has been a revelation after so may years on M$.

The proverbial stone in the shoe is ; if I am aboit to do a big upgrade HW included ( and a tax deduction! ) that puts Macs in the mix for home and soho: another hill to climb: keeping me sharp. ( or as sharp as I can be :blink: )

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Monty, like I said:
I really don't know who wrote this, but it's either a big joke or a spree of a child who didn't get enough toys.

Mrk

[19monty64]

Mrk. I would say it's a lot of sarcasm with a point. The point being that MicroCrap and Crapple have ignored the home-user for too long. If Linux only came out with 3 OS'es and called them Home, Pro and Business AND they came pre-installed (with drivers & install-disks) AND came with a manual called "Linux for Dummies." Within a generation everyone would forget those other guys and eventually start start installing "Untangle" or something else on their old pc's that used to run XP. I would do the same thing if I could stabilize "feisty fawn" for more than 30 days........

[Dogbiscuit]

19monty64,

That's basically the way I see it.

[gkweb]

Hello Mrkvonic,

About Linux, I use it personally for servers, as well as OpenBSD.
For desktop and everyday use, I found Ubuntu to be very easy to install.

However I think that the major drawback of Linux, for most of the users, is video games. Even if you can run Windows games on Linux by using Wine for instance, video card drivers (nvidia) may not be available or as optimized as the Windows ones. Also, and now this is a question as I don't know, can you skin Linux to have the same appearance as Vista (transparency) ?

If Linux would run any video games (DirectX9, Directx10, and the incomming DirectX 10.1) with the same performances as Windows, the same mature drivers as Windows XP, or even the same "mid-quality" Vista ones, having in addition a "modern" skin/look, then more users would use Linux.

Linux can be easy to install, user-friendly, provide Windows-setup-like installation files, but as long as you cannot play all video games on it with the same quality than Windows, then the Linux user base won't grow that much.
That is just my personal opinion about the topic, I didn't read that elsewhere.

Finally, if you don't use your computer for gaming, I think that Linux is a sensible option, provided you use OpenOffice to share documents with those using Windows and MS Office. And it's free.

I'll be glad to hear your opinion about this.

Regards,
gkweb.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello gkweb,

Companies produce their games to run on Windows. This was the mainstream for many years. This is where Microsoft invests so much money.

This is not a downside of Linux. If a company does not wish to port their games to Linux and their sources are closed, at best you can try to guess the performance using openGL.

But for those games that were or are ported to Linux, you get superior performance. In fact, any video task.

Regarding the looks, there are many guides all over the web explaining how almost any distro, and Ubuntu in particular, can be skinned to look like Windows or Mac or anything.

Ubuntu Feisty now comes with Beryl/Compiz 3D desktop manager. Oh boy. Transparent windows! Man! You get 3D cube with 100+ effects, including raindrops, wobbly desktop, stretchable windows and so many more.

If you need, I can help, you can have 100x more effects than Aero, for free.

Likewise, I can post screenshots of my SUSE and Ubuntu, showing you the beauty of Beryl.

Try Youtube for demos on Beryl and Compiz, type something like beryl effects and watch the movies. You'll be amazed.

Back to games, there are some game companies who bother to make their games work on Linux and they work excellent - for example, America's Army up to version 2.5, Doom 3.

Plus, there are many open-source games you can try. You'll be amazed how many of them are there for free.

Try Cube 2 (Sauerbraten, I think) FPS, you'll love the graphics. Or Nexus.

It comes down to what the market dictates. MS spends billions trying to crush their adversaries, mainly by offering low-quality cheap products, like OneCare anti-virus or Windows Media Player.

They pump bucks into the game industry, pay money to Intel and AMD to develop games specifically for DirectX and not for OpenGL. Once this changes, you'll see a beauty of results on Linux.

It's not the Linux fault in this case. Like saying, British cars don't work well in France. Well, if the manufacturer (game company) makes the wheel in the right (left) side (allow full 3D support using open protocols), then everything will work fine. I hope my analogy is good.

Regarding Ubuntu and other distros, it's a whole world of goodies waiting to be discover. Plunge in, try the 3D effect, most new distros offer it at 3x speed of Vista and 5x less space, you'll be amazed. Then, tons of applications. Once you get in, you'll realize how simple and effective everything is, and how the ugly money-grabbers (MS) are deliberately slowing down technology.

Cheers,
Mrk

[Longboard]

The guy who wrote the article, and it's been referenced all over the web
http://www.technoledge.com.au/
http://www.technoledge.com.au/team.htm#kimbrebach
Aussie ;)
Friend of Gizmo's, smart.

Marketing issueS...

@gkweb
There is No doubt gaming revenues drive much of the web and app development
( the other great driver of techno goodies and web commerce and video downloading tools is of course OrPn)

Currently of course there is a real lag for Vista users and games.
M$ shooting themself in the foot.

Your point is well made; the sheer commercial imperatives keep Linux on the back foot in terms of some tools.

Equally MrK's reply is illustrative of the frustrations for many.

Personally I get very little out of "games" and dont really even worry about all the excitement of "wobbly' windows, I accept I am eccentric, but not to far gone for some new tricks.

[Chuck57]

Well, I'm about as simple as they get when it comes to Linux and I've found Ubuntu 7.04 and PCLinuxOS to be a piece of cake, even for my simple mind.

I also read on the Ubuntu forum, in one of their sticky's, that if anybody finds Ubuntu too difficult (don't know how that's possible), or are afraid of the command line, to check out Mepis for even easier use. I haven't looked at SimplyMepis yet, but might. Right now, Ubuntu and PCLinux are my choices. One is going into my computer very shortly.

Slow and clunky? Both are faster than XP on this box. I last tried Linux 6 or 7 yrs ago and gave up (Red Hat). For me, who really knows very little about computers, I find Linux now to be just as easy as Windows. I was amazed at the progress it's made in the past few years.

I'm not a gamer, so could care less about that stuff. I need good word processing, and either AbiWord or Open Office fits my bill to a 'T.' Surfing the net? I hang out in almost 2 dozen forums from computer to history to supernatural, to military related, and do some surfing from various history or information type sites for research. Firefox is faster on this box using Linux which is an added plus.

Overall, except maybe in the gaming field, all the versions of Linux I've tried so far are a step ahead of Windows.

[gkweb]

Hello,

Thanks for the information. Indeed beryl effects are very amazing and ahead of Windows in this area.

One of the problem I see, which prevents Linux from becoming more widespread (besides games), is that when you go in any shop, you only find Windows (at least in France). Nowhere is a single Linux. When I help users to clean their computer, if we talk a little, rare are those knowing Linux at all. If you would find in shops advertising such as "Want something else than Windows ? Try Linux, grab a copy right now it's free !", then people would at least know Linux, and some would probably try it because it's free, and that would be a good start.

In conclusion, more advertising and availability, more compatibility or emulation of Windows games (or simply more games made for Linux...), and Linux would crush Windows, in my opinion :)

Regards,
gkweb.

[Chuck57]

Linux is free, and that scares some people. Free isn't supposed to be good.

Also, downloading 700MB or a lot more takes time and, if you're like me and don't read (or pay attention to) the instructions, you've got a monster file on your hard drive or on CD and you can't run it live to try it out. VirtualBox or VMware is good, but it doesn't truly tell you how good or fast Linux is.

Linux is making inroads though, burrowing along like a seditious mole just beneath the surface. It isn't a threat to M$ yet, but I think little by little it'll chip away at the monster.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Advertising: each one of us who has a website can do his/her share ... :) That's a good way to promote great stuff.

Linux is a threat already, why else do you have the patent threats from Microsoft and Vista on the market...?

Mrk

[Longboard]

{QUOTE-> I'm not a gamer, so could care less about that stuff. I need good word processing, and either AbiWord or Open Office fits my bill to a 'T.' Surfing the net? I hang out in almost 2 dozen forums from computer to history to supernatural, to military related, and do some surfing from various history or information type sites for research. Firefox is faster on this box using Linux which is an added plus. <-QUOTE}:thumb:
Ok for all the doubters; here is a good/great site to grab some virtual apps already made up for the FREE VMPlayer.
http://bagside.com/bagvapp/ ( add that to your site MrK?)

Got a couple of Gigs free?
Couldn't be easier to try.
Want speed: try the slackware based distros. Amazing
Distrowatch is your friend.

Here's a taste of a newer less well known distro:
http://on-disk.com/cms/index.php?wiki=Wolvix110

Not just preaching to the converted I hope.
I still hope the admins here will set-up a subforum: resources discussion etc., server might not take the strain ;)
:)

[SpikeyB]

My understanding is that the linux community in general, do not care whether linux makes it to a desktop near you. As long as it's available to the people who want it, then that's job done.

[djg05]

{QUOTE-> My understanding is that the linux community in general, do not care whether linux makes it to a desktop near you. As long as it's available to the people who want it, then that's job done. <-QUOTE}

I do think you make a salient point there. It seems that you will get help if you are prepared to get your fingers dirty under the bonnet, but not everyone wants to do that. It will stay in the "Also ran camp" until it will run out of the box with no messing around with config files and such like.

Many do not care how it runs so long as it does. Bit like cars. Used to be a time when you had to tweak the mechanics continually, now most don't even have to lift the bonnet for months on end and would not know what to do if they had to.

I know it is a free resource, so it is not quite the same but maybe a modest sum would be tolerated so long as it just worked.

[benny bronx]

{QUOTE-> For me, who really knows very little about computers, I find Linux now to be just as easy as Windows. <-QUOTE}

Agreed. While I was confident I could get a linux distro up and running eventually, I was surprised when it was fully functional and personalized within an hour of downloading. That was with ubuntu, kubuntu, pclinuxos, and mepis. Yet I frequently still hear how it takes too much work to install and use.

{QUOTE-> Why should you talk to other users? No, no! Don't ever consult with people who already use the product. Call tech support in India and wait 40 min for someone to answer... <-QUOTE}

This is right on the money. I have found it much easier to get an understandable, correct answer to any issue with linux than with windows, The ubuntu/kubuntu community is especially outstanding.

[Chuck57]

{QUOTE-> Agreed. While I was confident I could get a linux distro up and running eventually, I was surprised when it was fully functional and personalized within an hour of downloading. That was with ubuntu, kubuntu, pclinuxos, and mepis. Yet I frequently still hear how it takes too much work to install and use.



This is right on the money. I have found it much easier to get an understandable, correct answer to any issue with linux than with windows, The ubuntu/kubuntu community is especially outstanding. <-QUOTE}

With Ubuntu's free live CD, I was up and running within a few minutes, except for the printer. That took a while until I finally broke down and asked questions, which I hate to do. Then, another five minutes or so and all was a go.

I liked PCLinux which I ran on VirtualBox but couldn't get my printer to run. That could have been VB rather than PCLinux.

In any case, I just ordered 5 distros from OSDisc.com, pclinux, knoppix, simplymepis, freespire, and another I don't recall. One of them will be on this computer by the end of next month, when the work I'm doing is finished.

Since reading the review of Wolvix at the link in an above thread, I'm tempted to order that distro, if nothing else than it was an impressive review - and I like the name.

I guess we're among the lucky ones regarding India and tech support. We've had two experiences and both were very good. Situations fixed within minutes both times - Dell tech support though for the wife's computer.

[yahoo]

The article is very interesting. For Linux lovers, it's just ridiculous, and does not make much sense at all. But for those who just want things done and nothing else, it is pretty much true.

[Kerodo]

I don't think marketing is really the main issue with Linux. To me the main obstacle for Linux becoming mainstream is that is simply must be usable by the average user out of the box in all respects, just like Win. When it does that, then it will grow faster. The only distro I've seen that does this already is PCLOS. Most of the others take some tweaking, which any average user won't tolerate.

[Chuck57]

That, I think, is another reason Linux hasn't gotten further into the mainstream. A lot of people have heard about linux, but go to many linux forums and begin asking questions. You get hit with some pretty stupid replies that turn potential users off. The hard core linux crowd just doesn't seem to want ease of use, or an OS that works first time right out of the box without tinkering.

I think they'd prefer linux stay a small, fringe operating system. From what I've seen lately, it isn't happening. PCLinux, Ubuntu, apparently Wolvix, and others are equal to or almost equal to Windows functionality without touching that dreaded command line. I had to, to get my printer to work with Ubuntu 7.04, but it was a simple copy and paste a command (thank God), to install hplip.

[yahoo]

I tried Linux last year. I did not get much good luck on Suse, Fodera, and Debian. I used both DOS and UNIX for several years, and I can program well with C/C++. Still, Linux is out of my reach. I spent weeks just trying to find drivers for modem, wireless, graphic card, and so on. I was so tired after one or two weeks of searching and tweaking. At the end, I had to drop Linux. If I were still at my undergraduate study and had a lot of spare time and energy, perhaps I would fall in love with Linux. Well, Linux may have been improved dramatically recently. I just no longer have the guts to try it again.

Another reason that I do not want to try Linux again is that, it is unfortunately true that 'free' is in general not as good as 'paid'. I have used some quite decent freeware. But they tend to have more bugs than paid software. The worse is that you quite often can not get a solution to your problems, as no one is really responsible for doing that.

[Chuck57]

{QUOTE-> I tried Linux last year. I did not get much good luck on Suse, Fodera, and Debian. I used both DOS and UNIX for several years, and I can program well with C/C++. Still, Linux is out of my reach. I spent weeks just trying to find drivers for modem, wireless, graphic card, and so on. I was so tired after one or two weeks of searching and tweaking. At the end, I had to drop Linux. If I were still at my undergraduate study and had a lot of spare time and energy, perhaps I would fall in love with Linux. Well, Linux may have been improved dramatically recently. I just no longer have the guts to try it again.

Another reason that I do not want to try Linux again is that, it is unfortunately true that 'free' is in general not as good as 'paid'. I have used some quite decent freeware. But they tend to have more bugs than paid software. The worse is that you quite often can not get a solution to your problems, as no one is really responsible for doing that. <-QUOTE}

I'll agree to a some degree. There is no set formula in regards the various linux distros. I've had good luck on This computer with most, although printing did require only a small amount of work on my part, once I ditched my ego and asked for help.

[Coldmoon]

Hi yahoo,
Did you try WUBI yet? It allows you to install Linux within Windows (can also uninstall it through Windows) and creates a dual boot Windows/Linux setup without the partition pain of doing it manually.

It still has issues with older Intel graphics cards and strangely enough, LiteOnIt CD-R drives, but it is an interesting compromise that can give the Windows dependent an opportunity to learn and use Linux...

http://wubi-installer.org/

Just a thought...
Mike

[Old Monk]

{QUOTE->

It still has issues with older Intel graphics cards and strangely enough, LiteOnIt CD-R drives, but it is an interesting compromise that can give the Windows dependent an opportunity to learn and use Linux...

http://wubi-installer.org/

Just a thought...
Mike <-QUOTE}

Thats me out then on both counts ;D

[yahoo]

Mike, thanks for the suggestion.

[Pedro]

I think there's nothing wrong with the writing. It's a perspective. One that he explains, from the standpoint of a person wanting to market this great product and discovers it's not a product like the rest.
Much of what he learned does not apply. I get his point.
{QUOTE-> I tried Linux last year. I did not get much good luck on Suse, Fodera, and Debian. I used both DOS and UNIX for several years, and I can program well with C/C++. Still, Linux is out of my reach. I spent weeks just trying to find drivers for modem, wireless, graphic card, and so on. I was so tired after one or two weeks of searching and tweaking. At the end, I had to drop Linux. If I were still at my undergraduate study and had a lot of spare time and energy, perhaps I would fall in love with Linux. Well, Linux may have been improved dramatically recently. I just no longer have the guts to try it again. <-QUOTE}
How long ago did you try Debian? Debian's new installer is better. And once you figure it out, it is not hard.
It does take time to find the precise information you're looking for. In general, i think this is the most obvious experience for newcomers. Not lack of information, but that little specific thing you can't find. Turns out the manual says it all, and the Wiki.

I think the more one rushes, the more unlucky one gets. When i started reading more general Debian manuals, i found answers to previous unlucky searches. And it made me look stupid :P