Looking for Some Help in Picking a Suite...

[Hangetsu]

I'm trying to find an excellent security suite for my family (3 PCs), one of which runs Vista and two which run XP. I'm a software developer by trade and have *some* knowledge of systems security, and my PCs sit behind a good h/w router/firewall.

I've tried a bunch of software, but haven't found the perfect fit yet:
Kaspersky Internet Security: Fast, but don't like the ID / chkdsk issue; I know its probably nothing and affects only a minor subset of users, but it gives me pause personally
NOD32: Nice, but doesn't have a firewall or other components - Suite is still beta
Norton 360: Seems sluggish, and not enough information for me

Here's my requirements:
- Most importantly, I'm looking for something that historically as well as currently is excellent with regards to all-around protection: Rootkits, viruses, spyware, you name it. We're all safe surfers, but its good to have the protection just in case. Frequent updates are good as well.
- Second in importance, we all play online games of different sorts, so I need something that is low on resource usage and does not slow internet / PC performance
- I'd like something that is certified with Vista, and is known to really work with the OS, not just avoid errors. This is really important - A LOT of AVs say they work with Vista, but do so with occasional errors and/or with some features turned off.
- I'd prefer something that is well regarded by corporate security specialists, and has a following in large corporations; If a Visa or Oracle trusts their systems to a particular brand, I know I'd feel comfortable that its good.
- I'd also prefer something that is available in brick-and-mortar stores; I'd like to avoid online-only software, as I don't feel comfortable with it securing my machines.
- I'm looking for a suite

I know its alot, but there's just so many choices that I feel by the time I find something, Microsoft will have a new OS going live 8) I hope that one of the experts here will have a suggestion that fits all of the above. At least I hope something fits all of the above. :wink:

My apologies for the long-winded post, and I look forward to any replies!

[kinwolf]

{QUOTE->

Here's my requirements:
- Most importantly, I'm looking for something that historically as well as currently is excellent with regards to all-around protection: Rootkits, viruses, spyware, you name it. We're all safe surfers, but its good to have the protection just in case. Frequent updates are good as well.
- Second in importance, we all play online games of different sorts, so I need something that is low on resource usage and does not slow internet / PC performance
- I'd like something that is certified with Vista, and is known to really work with the OS, not just avoid errors. This is really important - A LOT of AVs say they work with Vista, but do so with occasional errors and/or with some features turned off.
- I'm looking for a suite
<-QUOTE}

Bitdefender Internet Security 2008 fits what you are asking above, but not the last 2 below.

{QUOTE->
- I'd prefer something that is well regarded by corporate security specialists, and has a following in large corporations; If a Visa or Oracle trusts their systems to a particular brand, I know I'd feel comfortable that its good.
- I'd also prefer something that is available in brick-and-mortar stores; I'd like to avoid online-only software, as I don't feel comfortable with it securing my machines.
<-QUOTE}
For no 1, most corporation have Norton or Mcafee or Trend Micro for a really simple reason, they are about the only one with a good management console to monitor and deploy. But it's not because the AV itself is the best(although Norton always gets good detection score)

For no 2, I don't understand why it would cause a problem. Beside having a CD there is not much more advantage. As soon as you'll install it, most of the time many DLL will be changed after the first update. You will miss on many good AV if it's really important for you to be able to buy in a store.

Kin

[midway40]

Try out Norton Internet Security 2008. It is more configurable than 360 though it has lost some options since '07. AntiSpam is still one of it's weak points though.

PC Mag just did a review of NIS 2008 last Friday which covers a lot a observations I have made myself (be sure to click on "read full review" towards the bottom of page):

PC Mag's Review of NIS 2008 (http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0,1895,2180639,00.asp)

[C.S.J]

the choices are minimal for what you request,

the suites i would recommend you try:

F-secure Internet Security 2008
AVG Internet Security
Norton internet Security 2008
Bitdefender Internet Security 2008

if you really dont need application control, why not try just an AV, your hardware firewall should keep the bad people out, there are plenty to choose here.

honest opinion is i think your asking a little much of a security suite, are you a paranoid user? :)

{QUOTE-> Most importantly, I'm looking for something that historically as well as currently is excellent with regards to all-around protection: Rootkits, viruses, spyware, you name it. We're all safe surfers, but its good to have the protection just in case. Frequent updates are good as well. <-QUOTE}
Historically is Norton and Kaspersky.
Most Frequent updaters are Kaspersky & Bitdefender for the suites.

{QUOTE-> Second in importance, we all play online games of different sorts, so I need something that is low on resource usage and does not slow internet / PC performance <-QUOTE}

out of my recommended selection, AVG will meet your needs here.

Bitdefender 2008 does have a 'game mode' that keeps your protection high, but keeps anything such as notifications etc that will slow the system down when playing a game.

The more i read your comments, the more i think you should go with Norton Internet Security 2008, if you need the parental control and antispam, please install the free add-on aswell.

[ankupan]

First Choice : KIS 7.0.0.125

Second Choice : NIS 2008

[WSFuser]

Id pick Kaspersky IS.

[C.S.J]

in simple terms,

your looking for a suite thats not heavy, great security, vista compatible and a big corporation.

Kaspersky and Norton enter my mind.

[Hangetsu]

{QUOTE-> honest opinion is i think your asking a little much of a security suite, are you a paranoid user? :) <-QUOTE}

Absolutely ;D

Thanks for the replies all -- BitDefender did cross my mind, but I'm going from an experience about 4 years ago where I tried it and it brought my machine to a crawl - Performance / resource utilization has improved then I take it? Also, I can buy BitDefender from Amazon, NewEgg, etc so that counts to me. Its corporate presence is what I don't know, but many vendors have client lists on their site - I may have to check BitDefender's out.

I've heard NIS 2008 slows down the machine as well, and there's no way to remove the anti-phishing bar (which adds about 20MB to a Firefox instance). I'm curious if I'm hearing wrong on this though.

[Hangetsu]

Oh, by the by, I posted the same question in CastleCops and someone there convinced me that a suite isn't necessarily the best way to go. Same criteria, but allowing individual apps - Any changes in the recommendations?

[C.S.J]

of course,

forget a suite and get drweb ;D

its not vista compatible ... yet, but the beta has been running for AGES and it should be released soon.

but seen as you mentioned XP too, why not :)

have a look on ebay (from some reputable sellers) for some good/great prices for antivirus, i know bitdefender licences are good prices on there, and well .. so is f-secure if you look in the right places. lol :)

[LowWaterMark]

Alright, this is exactly where a thread like this turns into a simplistic "which is best?" or "which should I get?" and ends up closed. This thread started with a detailed set of criteria, and so long as the responses were along the lines of that criteria, it had a good basis, and wasn't just a thread for product fans to jump in with their specific favorite.

If the criteria are dismissed and the replies start including every possible AV product, then the thread becomes a free for all. The burden of staying on topic and away from that type of thread is upon everyone, thread starter and those that reply.

Stick with the criteria and with products that meet it.

[trjam]

Based on the criteria, I would say F Secures 2008 Internet Suite would fit the bill.

Some possible answers for my suggestion.

http://www.f-secure.com/partners/technology_partners.html

[WSFuser]

{QUOTE-> Same criteria, but allowing individual apps - Any changes in the recommendations? <-QUOTE}
Norton AV and use teh Windows Firewall or if you have a router, use that. I dont know many software firewalls available in retail stores.

[The Hammer]

{QUOTE-> Kaspersky AV and use teh Windows Firewall or if you have a router, use that. I dont know many software firewalls available in retail stores. <-QUOTE}The OP has already rejected Kaspersky along with NOD and Norton 360 and this is the second time you've mentioned it.

[JerryM]

The best install and forget suite that I have tried is F-Secure. It is a little slow at start, but it has been less intrusive for me than any other. I never found that it slowed my machines in spite of the number of processes used.

Regards,
Jerry

[WSFuser]

{QUOTE-> The OP has already rejected Kaspersky along with NOD and Norton 360 and this is the second time you've mentioned it. <-QUOTE}
Sorry :-[ Ive editted my previous post to recommend NAV instead.

[Diver]

{QUOTE-> The OP has already rejected Kaspersky along with NOD and Norton 360 and this is the second time you've mentioned it. <-QUOTE}

If the OP does not like it does that mean that no one can talk about it? Is the decision of the OP final? Is the OP the judge? Do we serve the OP by trying to find the best of the remaining choices? What if the OP is wrong?

Signed,
The Screwdriver

[LowWaterMark]

{QUOTE-> If the OP does not like it does that mean that no one can talk about it? <-QUOTE}Actually, in this thread, yes. That's the heart of what staying "on topic" means. If a thread is started with specific criteria to focus a discussion, then replies need to stay along those lines. If we dismiss the purpose that a thread was started for, then people could reply with absolutely anything, even totally unrelated to what was asked. It could be a free for all.

"On-topic" is a corner stone of online forum operations, and it is a principle that Wilders Security operates on.

[JerryM]

Although I have not tried it, I would suggest consideration of AVG 7.5 Internet Security Suite.

I notice that on the site they show it is compatible with Vista, and the price for 2 years and 3 computers is $86.95. AVG 7.5 Anti-malware performed well on the latest AV Comparatives tests.
There are some auctions on ebay for 2 years, but I think for only one computer. As always check out the seller.

Regards,
Jerry

[Hangetsu]

{QUOTE-> If the OP does not like it does that mean that no one can talk about it? Is the decision of the OP final? Is the OP the judge? Do we serve the OP by trying to find the best of the remaining choices? What if the OP is wrong?

Signed,
The Screwdriver <-QUOTE}

I'm not debating the benefits of Kaspersky; I just have an issue with the rare yet present chkdsk debate with the product. I'm not wrong nor am I saying the product is wrong (in fact, I would install it if not for that issue), I simply don't want to install Kaspersky on my machines presently until its resolved.

The reason I phrased my original post as I did is for exactly the reasons LowWaterMark presented: The going rule is to lock threads that deviate into "This AV is better than this AV". I'm simply looking for suggestions based upon the requirements above, and as usual the Wilder's community came through and quickly. If there are any other suggestions I'd love to hear 'em.

With regards to Bitdefender's suite: I thought this was a memory hog (at least in older versions) - Can someone confirm how it performs (both at idle and while running scans)?

With regards to F-Secure: Same question as above!

Thanks again everyone!

[JerryM]

F-Secure is sometimes criticized for loading the system. While I never experienced that it is obviously a possibility. Normally when I scan I just go off and leave it.

There is just no substitute for trialling each one you think might be satisfactory. Without doing that you risk buying one that will not run for you, or won't run on all your computers. No one can assure that the one recommended will run well on your particular system. Some do have better reputations than others.

Regards,
Jerry

[ronjor]

{QUOTE-> No one can assure that the one recommended will run well on your particular system. <-QUOTE}Excellent advice JerryM.

[Diver]

{QUOTE-> Excellent advice JerryM. <-QUOTE}

No kidding. Especially with today's notebook computers. Those babies are loaded up with all sorts of drivers. They may have been tested with nothing but Norton, Mcafee and Trend Micro.

[Diver]

{QUOTE-> Actually, in this thread, yes. That's the heart of what staying "on topic" means. If a thread is started with specific criteria to focus a discussion, then replies need to stay along those lines. If we dismiss the purpose that a thread was started for, then people could reply with absolutely anything, even totally unrelated to what was asked. It could be a free for all.

"On-topic" is a corner stone of online forum operations, and it is a principle that Wilders Security operates on. <-QUOTE}

As you are an Administrator, your comments in this regard carry a lot of weight. However, as I read the OP, it appears to me that there is a built in contradiction in terms of of the OP's requirements and his findings with regard to certain suites. Absolutely, unsupported statements to the effect my suite/AV is better than yours should be avoided. (But its OK to say my daddy is tougher than yours :) ) At any rate, I was reacting to some statements that I felt would make it impossible to ever examine this contradiction.

After all, what I see here is a list of requirements that fit one product very well, and that product is dismissed as the OP "felt" it slowed his system. Perhaps it is true, and perhaps it is too subjective a judgment. Perhaps nothing fits the bill. Should that make any discussion of the product in question off topic?

-Ron

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> Oh, by the by, I posted the same question in CastleCops and someone there convinced me that a suite isn't necessarily the best way to go. Same criteria, but allowing individual apps - Any changes in the recommendations? <-QUOTE}
I was just going to post a reply about the advantages of stand alones when I saw this fellow beat me to it. Stand alones are a much more sensible choice. First of all you can pick the best software you can find for each job, and secondly if one turns out to be not to your liking after all, you can dump it and try something else. You can't do that with a suite. All you can do is disable the unwanted part of the software and get a stand alone to replace it. Now your HD has 2 apps and double the space. I could go on.:)

[LowWaterMark]

{QUOTE-> After all, what I see here is a list of requirements that fit one product very well, and that product is dismissed as the OP "felt" it slowed his system. Perhaps it is true, and perhaps it is too subjective a judgment. Perhaps nothing fits the bill. Should that make any discussion of the product in question off topic? <-QUOTE}Yes, of course it should. Who are any of us to say that KAV fits this bill for him? Or, that other people do not have a legitimate complaint regarding it? Who are we to imply that the problem mentioned does not exist at all? Or, that everyone should be able to use that product without problem?

"There is no best." That is because every product has people that can't use it because it conflicts for them or their systems. That is a fact and it applies to all products. KAV maybe great, but, some people have problems because of the chkdsk issue. Avira is great but some people can't get the darn thing to update. These are real problems for them. And, such issues go on and on. For every great product, there are people who can not use them because of conflicts. For them, that "great" product is clearly not the best.

And, by the way, what is this "felt" point you are trying to make? Are you trying to imply that he is wrong because he saw such a problem and you didn't? Or dismiss it as some misguided "feeling"? Come on, that's trolling the member at best. The problems these people see are real. They are documented by many others across the Internet. Whether you personally experienced them or not, you cannot dismiss them and then start posting off-topic commentary in threads here at Wilders Security because you are a fan of such products.

The OP said very clearly why KAV was not within his choices. Perhaps you do not have the chkdsk problem, but, that does not mean that those who do have that problem are wrong.

You had better learn the concept of on-topic versus off-topic or stop posting on any forum. You are wrong whether you understand it or not, and we will not argue further with you on this. Learn it or leave it, that is your choice. The principle of "on-topic versus off-topic" discussion will remain the way this forum operates.

[Diver]

{QUOTE-> I was just going to post a reply about the advantages of stand alones when I saw this fellow beat me to it. Stand alones are a much more sensible choice. First of all you can pick the best software you can find for each job, and secondly if one turns out to be not to your liking after all, you can dump it and try something else. You can't do that with a suite. All you can do is disable the unwanted part of the software and get a stand alone to replace it. Now your HD has 2 apps and double the space. I could go on.:) <-QUOTE}


However, a suite is less probably not likely to have conflicts among its components, there is a consistent interface and it will probably cost less than the sum of its components. But, there is no real answer.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> As you are an Administrator, your comments in this regard carry a lot of weight. However, as I read the OP, it appears to me that there is a built in contradiction in terms of of the OP's requirements and his findings with regard to certain suites. Absolutely, unsupported statements to the effect my suite/AV is better than yours should be avoided. (But its OK to say my daddy is tougher than yours :) ) At any rate, I was reacting to some statements that I felt would make it impossible to ever examine this contradiction.

After all, what I see here is a list of requirements that fit one product very well, and that product is dismissed as the OP "felt" it slowed his system. Perhaps it is true, and perhaps it is too subjective a judgment. Perhaps nothing fits the bill. Should that make any discussion of the product in question off topic?

-Ron <-QUOTE}

Hi Ron

I'll leave it to LWM to answer your last question as to any discussion of the product being off topic, but your point, might well make any discussion pointless. Lots of time, there just really isn't any point in discussing. The only way OP will get his answer is to try them. Period. Right?

Pete

[ylssky]

{QUOTE-> Bitdefender Internet Security 2008 fits what you are asking above, but not the last 2 below.


For no 1, most corporation have Norton or Mcafee or Trend Micro for a really simple reason, they are about the only one with a good management console to monitor and deploy. But it's not because the AV itself is the best(although Norton always gets good detection score)

For no 2, I don't understand why it would cause a problem. Beside having a CD there is not much more advantage. As soon as you'll install it, most of the time many DLL will be changed after the first update. You will miss on many good AV if it's really important for you to be able to buy in a store.

Kin <-QUOTE}
Norton Internet Security 2008 and the NOD32 really do the better than you say.you can see from the av-comparatives repost on august just before.these two av softwares get the high score and the best compatability.
highly recommend you to use this.even about the firewall,suggestion for bitdefender..

[trjam]

I have noticed some slow down in F Secure over the last week. You mentioned being able to buy it in a store, therefore I would say that Norton is your best bet. Sorry for any confusion I caused.

[Davidpr]

{QUOTE-> Hi Ron

I'll leave it to LWM to answer your last question as to any discussion of the product being off topic, but your point, might well make any discussion pointless. Lots of time, there just really isn't any point in discussing. The only way OP will get his answer is to try them. Period. Right?

Pete <-QUOTE}
Agree, that is the only way. I have chosen a suite instead of single programs because on my machines 'seem' to run better and have less issues with a suite.

I have chosen my suite because it works well on my machines, has good reviews here at Wilders and other fora, and is a good price. I have tried other leading suites and have discounted some because they do not run well for me or they cost too much.

I will probably change again over time but my choice will be based on the above.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> However, a suite is less probably not likely to have conflicts among its components, there is a consistent interface and it will probably cost less than the sum of its components. But, there is no real answer. <-QUOTE}
Not my experience with ZoneAlarm Security Suite. Conflicts up the ying yang, and if I remember right, it wasn't cheap. I use NOD32 $40 2 years, SuperAntispyware $20,AVG antispyware $14.95 renewal, and Comodo FW free.:)

[fax]

{QUOTE-> Not my experience with ZoneAlarm Security Suite. Conflicts up the ying yang, and if I remember right, it wasn't cheap. I use NOD32 $40 2 years, SuperAntispyware $20,AVG antispyware $14.95 renewal, and Comodo FW free.:) <-QUOTE}


ZoneAlarm Security Suite 7
49,9$ 3 User license

Running fine, most conflicts are with other security tools (due to KAV)
Other conflicts will be sorted out with the new release.

But user already rejected KAV and ZASS use KAV, so again this is off topic.

Cheers,
Fax

[trjam]

I think what is making this hard for all of us trying to help is, based on the specific criteria, there may not be an answer. Thus the strays away suggestions. What this individual needs to do is, a total review of this thread and suggestions, and trial a few as he obviously did from his first post. The thread really cant be of anymore help to be perfectly honest.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I think what is making this hard for all of us trying to help is, based on the specific criteria, there may not be an answer. Thus the strays away suggestions. What this individual needs to do is, a total review of this thread and suggestions, and trial a few as he obviously did from his first post. The thread really cant be of anymore help to be perfectly honest. <-QUOTE}

Bingo!! Couldn't have said it better myself. And this is actually almost true for everyone that asks. You have to try them on your machine. Only way.

Pete

Only useful thing to add might be have some means of rolling back, your system to do a complete uninstall of each trial.

[likuidkewl]

I have tried many AV's as of late for mainly Vista bug free operation, and have found that no matter how much I disliked Norton's early versions they latest version 2008 of NIS or NAV has little or no compatibility problems or slow downs, I can give some examples of only 3 machines:
NIS on WinXP - AMD AthlonXP 1.1ghz 512mb pc100 belikin(RaLink) Wireless card - Negligible system impact on par with AVG Free

NAV on Vista/XP - AMD AthlonXP 2000+ 1 GB DDR333, ASUS mobo with nForce2 chipset, Nvidia 5200fx - no notable impact, light as a feather

NAV on Compaq presario v2010 US - PentiumM 1.7 1GB DDR333 Intel IGP - Nice feel to it played well with the notebooks drivers.

Also I believe NIS/NAV cover 3 pc's ?? I don't know as I got my licenses for free from the beta... HTH

[Hangetsu]

{QUOTE-> Bingo!! Couldn't have said it better myself. And this is actually almost true for everyone that asks. You have to try them on your machine. Only way.

Pete

Only useful thing to add might be have some means of rolling back, your system to do a complete uninstall of each trial. <-QUOTE}

Oh no, I knew this was the case (I've read / posted on these boards long enough to know that), however since there are so many options these days, I hoped that by presenting everything I'm looking for, I could get the list down to a reasonable 5-6 :P

I have to admit, I'm finding this thread very informative, and its giving me a few good ideas to try out. I put so many criterion up as I'm really trying to narrow things down; Different criteria may (will?) come up with a completely different set of software I'm sure. Thanks and kudos to everyone here for really keeping that in mind and giving some really great suggestions.

Also, I think mentioning "brick and mortar" was a mistake - By store, I really should have included mainstream web retailers such as Amazon.com and NewEgg; What I'm trying to avoid with this requirement are any fly-by-night software providers that operate only out of their website.

Breaking things up into separate pieces (rather than a suite, as suggested) allows me to consider NOD32 again, which I really enjoy and run on my personal gaming rig. On that machine (Vista also), I only use the Windows Firewall (Outbound protection on and with rules set up for apps) and Defender to keep resource usage low. For the family machines that started the discussion, I probably want something a bit more robust on the Anti-spyware/rootkit side of things as well as with the firewall. The trouble is finding something that doesn't cause performance issues while meeting the other criteria above.

Heck, if the firewall and AS apps fit the bill and work really well, I might even put them on my own PC -- NOD32 notwithstanding, I feel kinda naked using just the Windows Firewall and Defender ;D

[trjam]

A very good and honest response to your orginal question. Ultimately now you have to decide. You are also correct with your statement about being naked with just using windows firewall and defender. I think they call that,"Buck naked.";)

[Hangetsu]

Well... It *is* the Vista firewall (with Outbound set to default to block) along with occasional checks with HijackThis and F-Secure Blacklight, so its not buck naked. More of a thin-Speedo naked... ;D

It does put me in a spot though - The firewalls and AS apps I know of either consume lots of resources, slow down the machine, or don't fit the criteria above (or a combination of the three!).

[trjam]

One last thought. Since you threw in the idea of Vistas firewall Defender, and a AV. Try Nortons AV buy itself. It is a very good and light AV with great detections based on IBKs latest tests.

[Hangetsu]

I'd say Norton AV is one to consider, definitely. I'd actually prefer a better firewall and AS, but I honestly don't know of any that fit the criteria (particularly when talking about Vista).

[ccsito]

{QUOTE-> I think what is making this hard for all of us trying to help is, based on the specific criteria, there may not be an answer. Thus the strays away suggestions. What this individual needs to do is, a total review of this thread and suggestions, and trial a few as he obviously did from his first post. The thread really cant be of anymore help to be perfectly honest. <-QUOTE}

Based on your signature line, no one should therefore ask for advice on these forums. ;)

[trjam]

{QUOTE-> Based on your signature line, no one should therefore ask for advice on these forums. ;) <-QUOTE}
think what you want but I think LowWaterMark would differ with you. If you want to, ask him.;)

[Hangetsu]

Well, based on the feedback here I decided to give NIS 2008 a go. I'm in awe - My machine actually feels light with it on. I'll give it a month to see if it stays like that (360 seemed light at first too, then got sluggish with use) but so far its very promising.

Again, thank you all for the feedback, as usual this community was extremely helpful!

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> Well, based on the feedback here I decided to give NIS 2008 a go. I'm in awe - My machine actually feels light with it on. I'll give it a month to see if it stays like that (360 seemed light at first too, then got sluggish with use) but so far its very promising.

Again, thank you all for the feedback, as usual this community was extremely helpful! <-QUOTE}
No no get NOD32. It's light on it's feet and affective. In my experience, Norton will infiltrate your computer to the extent you'll need help to get rid of it.

[rhuds13]

I started trial of NIS2008 on my Dell XPS400 last couple days to be sure would run good on both systems. So far doing very good. And as far as infiltrating the system and being hard to remove, if it works good then no problem. If a person first makes a ghost or clone image before installing then can go back and try something else to see which is best for him/her. I'm used to Avast Home and on my systems the NIS2008 seems to run very light so happy camper here.

[trjam]

Isnt this thread turning into exactly what they are trying to stop?:dry:
Will we ever learn.

[LowWaterMark]

No, I think it stayed mostly on target as requested. In fact, post #44 is the thread starter saying thanks for the feedback and posting that based upon it all, he made his decision. That should have been the end of it, without someone looping back yet again to say, "no, don't pick that one," after the input was all given and the choice made. But, people have strong opinions on anti-virus software for some reason...

Anyway, as the thread starter made their choice and is giving it a month of trial, this topic has run its course.