Privacy matters ... Alternative to Gmail ?

[Bls440]

Hello,

The title says it all. I'm looking for an alternative to Gmail / Yahoo Mail, both known to have no limits upon data collects, privacy intrusion and hard advertising. (You can read some facts there http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ ).

I'm sure an alternative exists, just as fast, with great storage/features.

I hope you're not going to move this thread away, as everyone should think about Google and their hidden activities, accordingly this is a topic of current interests.

[zapjb]

I like Yahoo. Afaik the privacy concerns are nil. If not link me please.

[Bls440]

Well I've only heard "rumors" about Yahoo. It does create a cookie like Gmail, which cannot be erased that easily.

[WSFuser]

Maybe inbox.com?

[Bls440]

Thanks, I'll give it a try.
Someone suggested me http://mail.litepost.com.
Very fast, unlimited storage but no features at all (basically reading/writing emails, nothing more).

Feel free to give me some more ! :)

[Climenole]

Hi Bls440 :)

{QUOTE->
The title says it all. I'm looking for an alternative to Gmail / Yahoo Mail, both known to have no limits upon data collects, privacy intrusion and hard advertising. (You can read some facts there http://www.gmail-is-too-creepy.com/ ).
<-QUOTE}

Let me laugh ;D

Typical "leftist" paranoia. Just use Gmail with Ff extension Customise Google and encrypt your mails with enigmail and that's it.


{QUOTE->
I hope you're not going to move this thread away, as everyone should think about Google and their hidden activities, accordingly this is a topic of current interests.
<-QUOTE}

Google is a commercial society: a company who offer services and make money with advertising. Nothings is free. If it' s free for you it's because somebody else pay for it. Right? They sell targetted advertisement to their clients and to do this they have to collect information like any marketing department in any company around the world.

Which hidden activities actually ? And if there's so "hidden" why the guy of this web site know this ? ( Crystal ball ? )

A Google Conspiration Theory ? An other one ? :dry:

Quote:

"Google offers more storage for your email than other Internet service providers that we know about. The powerful searching encourages account holders to never delete anything."

Oh yeah? So they keep the mail I send to my brother last week:

"Would you like to drink a beer with me at St-Patrick Pub in Qc city? "

I don't care. They can keep this for ever.

If you need to send really confidential mail why not using Tor and their email hidden service ? Or simply use US Postage...

http://tor.eff.org/

Please keep calm.

Best regards,
:)

[Cerxes]

FastMail (http://www.fastmail.net/)

/C.

[Bls440]

Climenole :

Every week I can hear some new stories about Google privacy leaks.
I don't really care about the almost invisible/discrete ads on Gmail, but I do about them keeping/reading my mails even after removing them. Would you like your postal service to read every letter/postcard you sent ? I don't.
Of course, everything has a price, but I do care about my privacy. Ads ? OK ; tracking users with cookies, almost spying on them thanks to their e-mail provider ? No thanks.
I think Google is omnipresent, and big enough to collect enough informations on us via some other ways behind our backs. Now if I can limit the violation of privacy I'll do it ; I won't be using their mail service.
This is not about paranoia, this about reality ; Google already acknowledged those facts.

[Dogbiscuit]

Have you checked out Hushmail (http://www.hushmail.com)?

[Jim Verard]

Freemail (http://eng.freemail.lt)

I would like some suggestions too.

Avoid these companies:

AOL
Google
Microsoft
Yahoo

[Bls440]

Thanks for husmail, looks great.

However, Freemail seems to be very limited ; 2 MB storage and dedicated at lithuanians ;)

[Climenole]

Hi Bls440 :)

{QUOTE-> Climenole :
Every week I can hear some new stories about Google privacy leaks.
<-QUOTE}

Not only Google... Internet is not the best place to keep privacy. Ask this to the poeple using the Job site Monster.com ... Isn't a worst case than collecting some anonymous data from emails ?

Google is now the new scarecrow. Remember few times ago? That was Microsoft... with all (false) stories about MS spying their users?

Did you realised that all communications (with few exceptions) over Internet are done IN CLEAR ? From your PC to the servers/routers of your ISP, transmitted with many other servers-routers until the data reach the destination ?

Yes, we have to keep an eye on Google and all the other to protect privacy.

There's two more important privacy threats over Internet than that one:
spywares spreaded by cyber criminals and naive poeple spreading their personnal information on "social" web site like MyFace...

That's the big problem: not Google.


{QUOTE->
I don't really care about the almost invisible/discrete ads on Gmail, but I do about them keeping/reading my mails even after removing them. Would you like your postal service to read every letter/postcard you sent ? I don't.
Of course, everything has a price, but I do care about my privacy. Ads ? OK ; tracking users with cookies, almost spying on them thanks to their e-mail provider ? No thanks.
<-QUOTE}

Okay. They "read"... Just to encrypt your emails with Gmail or any other mail services. Did a 2048 bit encryption is enough for you?

{QUOTE->
I think Google is omnipresent, and big enough to collect enough informations on us via some other ways behind our backs. Now if I can limit the violation of privacy I'll do it ; I won't be using their mail service.
This is not about paranoia, this about reality ; Google already acknowledged those facts. <-QUOTE}

Which facts ? The ones in that "Joe Doe" web site you give as reference?
Reality? Okay... There's many "reality" (most unreal but who care?)
::)

Keep calm. Encrypt your emails if it's so private...
With GnuPG + Enigmail...

And used the email services in the Hidden services of the Tor network.
(If you trust the Tor poeple better than Google...)

Protect your information against spywares. This is a more important threat.

The most important factor in privacy protection is the common sense.
Without this, poeple either fall in naivety or paranoia.

Have a nice day.

:)

[eniqmah]

lol
It's my guess that you're a nobody to Google and they are not wasting their time reading your emails probably because they're busy making billions of dollars being an innovative and well liked company. Thus, it's my suggestions that your anonimity and emails are actually safer with them than some other company.

[Jim Verard]

I find one useful link which have plenty of International e-mail services:

http://www.fepg.net/foreign.html

However, plenty of these links are broken or somehow difficult to access.

I think it's a good idea to post here the webmail services which doesn't require Java/Javascript enabled in order to make a new register and gain access to their mailbox.

I know some of them works this way.

[Osaban]

{QUOTE-> Hi Bls440 :)

Not only Google... Internet is not the best place to keep privacy. Ask this to the poeple using the Job site Monster.com ... Isn't a worst case than collecting some anonymous data from emails ?

Google is now the new scarecrow. Remember few times ago? That was Microsoft... with all (false) stories about MS spying their users?

Did you realised that all communications (with few exceptions) over Internet are done IN CLEAR ? From your PC to the servers/routers of your ISP, transmitted with many other servers-routers until the data reach the destination ?

Yes, we have to keep an eye on Google and all the other to protect privacy.

There's two more important privacy threats over Internet than that one:
spywares spreaded by cyber criminals and naive poeple spreading their personnal information on "social" web site like MyFace...

That's the big problem: not Google.

:) <-QUOTE}

I couldn't agree more. There are companies that have achieved wonderful things eg Google and MS, yes Microsoft, and for some obscure psychological reasons their corporate size induces a certain awe and suspicious behaviour a' la 'big brother'.

They are making money... So what! Is anybody around here working without a salary? Climenole is right anything that goes on the internet can eventually be intercepted and read if it's not encrypted. For very confidential matters there are international couriers and the good old registered mail.

[Gerard Morentzy]

I think many of us in the USA are more concerned with individual civil liberties and privacy rights; and hence, the massive amounts of data in the hands of one company like Google. That data can be manipulated, collated, refined, examined and ultimately sold, handed over to the government, among many other things. Many who posted here are right: They don't care about the "See you at 7 for a beer" emails. What they might care about are buying habits, personal lives of certain figures, who knows what else? To me, to NOT be concerned about that amount of data in the hands of one company is foolhardy. Didn't anyone here read Animal Farm? 1984? Security through obscurity is also a foolish notion. With super-computers at Google's disposal, all those emails, documents, spreadsheets, etc. can be collated and called up by IP and other identifiers within a matter of seconds. This is 2007 - our lives are digital. Give your information to a single company at your own peril.

Oh, HushMail is your best bet for private commuication.

[Bls440]

I can't agree with you more Gerard, though I understand opposite point of views.

Thank you all for your suggestions.

[Osaban]

{QUOTE-> I think many of us in the USA are more concerned with individual civil liberties and privacy rights; and hence, the massive amounts of data in the hands of one company like Google. [B]That data can be manipulated, collated, refined, examined and ultimately sold, handed over to the government, among many other things. <-QUOTE}

So that means anybody else living outside the US is not aware of or they are more inclined to give up their own privacy to an all great american corporation! It doesn't make any sense. If you don't trust Google, fine. You should not use the internet as a means of communication.

The government, your government has already shown blatantly what they can get away with, and don't tell me Google is now the culprit.

[Gerard Morentzy]

{QUOTE-> So that means anybody else living outside the US is not aware of or they are more inclined to give up their own privacy to an all great american corporation! <-QUOTE}

It doesn't mean they are less aware, it means many are more accepting of government intrusion into their private affairs (polls have shown this) than Americans. I'm just extrapolating that to include big corporations.

{QUOTE-> If you don't trust Google, fine. You should not use the internet as a means of communication. <-QUOTE}

You seem to believe that some semblance of privacy and use of the Internet are mutually exclusive. I very much disagree with you. So do many other organizations and individuals that are working on this issue. Your statement, "You should not use the Internet as a means of communication," makes no sense in relationship to privacy or to Google. There is a BIG difference when one corporation collects, manipulates, collates, analyzes, and God knows what else with user data. It's not just a matter of individuals choosing not to use that service - it is a societal problem.

I agree the American government is a big part of the problem - at a lot of levels - but that does not excuse the blatant disregard for users privacy by Google's business tactics - especially on a public so willing to accept them. Many, not fully realizing the possible ramifications.

[Osaban]

{QUOTE-> It doesn't mean they are less aware, it means many are more accepting of government intrusion into their private affairs (polls have shown this) than Americans. I'm just extrapolating that to include big corporations.



You seem to believe that some semblance of privacy and use of the Internet are mutually exclusive. I very much disagree with you. So do many other organizations and individuals that are working on this issue. Your statement, "You should not use the Internet as a means of communication," makes no sense in relationship to privacy or to Google. There is a BIG difference when one corporation collects, manipulates, collates, analyzes, and God knows what else with user data. It's not just a matter of individuals choosing not to use that service - it is a societal problem.

I agree the American government is a big part of the problem - at a lot of levels - but that does not excuse the blatant disregard for users privacy by Google's business tactics - especially on a public so willing to accept them. Many, not fully realizing the possible ramifications. <-QUOTE}

I still find your assumption about privacy being more of a sensitive matter for North Americans very arguable (polls don't mean mean much really, just see how many predicted a come back of the present US government).

You've made your point about Google which I personally accept the risks as I would with any other provider. Now let me understand, you use HushMail claiming it is safe (again there isn't any internet exchange that is tamper-proof), but what happens if you are sending an e-mail to a friend who is with g-mail? Your message will inevitably enter the g-mail universe. Are you going to exclude all your contacts with g-mail?

[Gerard Morentzy]

Tit for tat. We could go on and on.

One personal word to you: I LOVE your signature quote.

[noway]

I use www.safe-mail.net

I don't even need to use cookies with it.

[Jim Verard]

{QUOTE-> what happens if you are sending an e-mail to a friend who is with g-mail? Your message will inevitably enter the g-mail universe. Are you going to exclude all your contacts with g-mail? <-QUOTE}I guess if we want to say something important or confidential, encrypted messages maybe are the best choice, assuming the receiver knows the correct password and it's the only one who may understand what the whole message means. :P

For example, try to decode this message. Make sure you're not missing anything.

?b64geFbCmVKFitcPs533BjnHSyWLj37Rq/iUtVg11AnDsYn9/zlfxpBQX6tF/Br
Jmb032qux2VKhklX/kpGqMCvyA==

http://www.stayinvisible.com/encryption.html (Javascript needs to be enabled in order to use this website)

The password is:

I am concerned about my privacy! (32 letters)

Push the decrypt button and you will see a famous quote. ;D

[Osaban]

{QUOTE-> I guess if we want to say something important or confidential, encrypted messages maybe are the best choice, assuming the receiver knows the correct password and it's the only one who may understand what the whole message means. :P

For example, try to decode this message. Make sure you're not missing anything.

?b64geFbCmVKFitcPs533BjnHSyWLj37Rq/iUtVg11AnDsYn9/zlfxpBQX6tF/Br
Jmb032qux2VKhklX/kpGqMCvyA==

http://www.stayinvisible.com/encryption.html (Javascript needs to be enabled in order to use this website)

The password is:

I am concerned about my privacy! (32 letters)

Push the decrypt button and you will see a famous quote. ;D <-QUOTE}

I agree that if you want to send an encrypted message and provided the recipient knows how to decode it, you are going to achieve a perfect hermetic system.

But let's face it, is it practical? How many of your contacts are going to play this game? More importantly, there is a remote chance you might attract attention from internet police detectives who are not always snooping for the wrong reasons: Paedophils, bank accounts crackers are real criminals.

Basically what Gerard Morentzy so eloquently stated about privacy and Google is true, but it's almost like expecting some free TV stations to run without ads. Google's target is marketing, and I believe it stops there. In this thread there's a definite innuendo about Google controlling our lives, and delivering our privacy to unscrupulous politicians.

Well if that disturbs you, there are alternatives without defaming a successful company.

[ronjor]

{QUOTE-> Alternative to Gmail <-QUOTE}Let's stay on this thread topic and away from politics in general. One very off topic post removed.

[Bls440]

In terms of storage capacity and speediness, in my mind, at the moment, nothing equals Gmail ...

[faterider]

ICMail.Net

https://mail.icmail.net/

[Gerard Morentzy]

Wow! Has anyone looked at inbox.com lately? They have seriously undergone some changes! Very nice interface, 5GB FREE storage to USA, Canada & UK (2GB everywhere else), document storage, organizer, note-taking, calendar, photo album -- all free. I signed-up and, so far, am very happy. This is quite a change - VERY nice!
http://www.inbox.com/products/email.aspx

[Mele20]

{QUOTE-> Hi Bls440 :)

Which facts ? The ones in that "Joe Doe" web site you give as reference?
Reality? Okay... There's many "reality" (most unreal but who care?)
::)

Keep calm. Encrypt your emails if it's so private...
With GnuPG + Enigmail...

<-QUOTE}

I do not communicate with anyone using GMail. Since it almost impossible to determine if someone is using GMail...I have almost given up using email. I think Google has killed email for anyone concerned about their privacy.

Encrypting is a silly thing for you to suggest. Do you really think everyone is going to start doing that? It would take everyone doing it for Google spying to be brought to a halt. It matters not if I encrypt and I am able to talk my recipient into doing it also. What about the mail that someone sends me from my own ISP and I reply and they reply from GMail. UGH. Google has my mail forever. That is totally unacceptable. So, I have been forced by all those who think privacy is silly to basically stop using email. Google has no cookie from me, I use Customize Google, and a Hosts file to stop Google Analytics at my home site, I use no Google Toolbar or anything of Google's except their search engine and I use it without any enhancements that would require a cookie. Yet all my efforts are for naught if someone with GMail, who has emailed me from their ISP account, decides to pick up all their mail in their GMail account . :(

[GrailVanGogh]

{QUOTE->
So, I have been forced by all those who think privacy is silly to basically stop using email. Google has no cookie from me, I use Customize Google, and a Hosts file to stop Google Analytics at my home site, I use no Google Toolbar or anything of Google's except their search engine and I use it without any enhancements that would require a cookie. Yet all my efforts are for naught if someone with GMail, who has emailed me from their ISP account, decides to pick up all their mail in their GMail account . :( <-QUOTE}

Ever the one for drama.
No one is forcing you to do anything. ::)

If you were on the ball you would just fire off an email to what friends and family you have asking them to please contact you through their ISP's email.

No rants or lectures just simply asking them to not use gmail.

I would bet 90%+ would comply.

Now how hard is that?

[Jim Verard]

We were talking about privacy, if there's one thing that bothers me it's the fact that most of these services, related on this thread, have a vague privacy policy, and keeps informations about us even after the account is closed/deleted.

That's a good reason we should not sign them.

And most of them don't have any option for you to delete your own account. That's OK, I don't think someone built an email thinking this option should be top priority. I can understand that.

But at least some services are quite honest in this matter, and if you don't use your account for specific days, it is deactivated and later, deleted for good. So much for data retention these days, uh? ::)

Some useful information:

16 Points to Consider When Selecting an Email Hosting Provider

http://www.webmail.us/press-releases/2004/51

I just found out one service who has the option of remove your own account and doesn't need Javascript to be enabled:

InMail24 (http://www1.inmail24.com)

The problem is, you can't send any emails to Microsoft (Hotmail). They are rejected. ::)

Another good choice (all accounts are deleted for inactivity):

OperaMail (http://www.operamail.com)

The problem: you need to enable Javascript to make a new register.

I am currently looking for more options. Space disk is not an issue for me.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Wow! Has anyone looked at inbox.com lately? They have seriously undergone some changes! Very nice interface, 5GB FREE storage to USA, Canada & UK (2GB everywhere else), document storage, organizer, note-taking, calendar, photo album -- all free. I signed-up and, so far, am very happy. This is quite a change - VERY nice!
http://www.inbox.com/products/email.aspx <-QUOTE}
This is great! I have never heard of this one before. Thanks for the link.

[dNor]

My vote would go to Inbox.com as well. It is very nice and a good alternative to Gmail!

Just be sure to disable the Inbox.com newsletter in the settings once you sign up.