FD-ISR problems with Vista

[Karen76]

I used FD-ISR on my old Windows XP PC for two years without any significant problems. So long as I remembered to turn off ProcessGuard, snapshots were always created or updated without any errors. Last month, I bought a new PC (HP m8120n, Intel Core 2 Duo Q6600, 3 GB RAM) with the Vista Home Premium OS. I installed FD-ISR v3.2, created backup snapshots labeled Alternate and Secondary as well as a couple archive snapshots, and the program seemed to function perfectly. There was no ProcessGuard or other HIPS software to disable and under “show details,” FD-ISR always reported 0 errors when snapshots were created or updated.

This morning, as a snapshot was finishing being updated and just before the window closed, the scrolling text reported 2 errors while the “show details” error block said 0. Checking the activity log, 2 errors were listed. Reviewing the log, I was shocked to discover that most of the updates I’d made on my new PC contained errors; usually 2, sometimes 16, and occasionally 4,580! (this despite 0 errors invariably displayed under “show details” at the time the snapshots were updated). When 2 errors were shown, they were always: “Error - SSN::GetTempFileName[1]: Access is denied. Windows error number 5.” When 16 or 4,580 errors were listed, they were always: “Error - SSN::SetFileShortName: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. Windows error number 183.”

I uninstalled FD-ISR using the option to save existing snapshots. I rebooted, reinstalled FD-ISR, rebooted again then updated the Alternate and Secondary snapshots. The activity log listed two errors for each snapshot; the update window stated 0 errors. According to the log, a recent archive snapshot had been updated without any errors. I copied that snapshot to my Alternate snapshot, rebooted into that snapshot, renamed it as Primary and renamed the old Primary as Alternate. Then I copied my Primary snapshot to the Alternate with zero errors shown, both on the update window and the activity log. Success! Then I copied the Primary to the Secondary snapshot. 4,580 errors! :o I can’t comprehend why making these two updates resulted in one perfect snapshot and the other with thousands of errors.

Not keen on having a backup snapshot containing 4,580 errors, I had FD-ISR remove the Secondary snapshot. I then set FD-ISR to create a new copy of my Primary snapshot as Secondary. I returned to my PC a half hour later expecting the process to be nearly finished. I was stunned to discover the new snapshot was only 10% complete with an estimated 4 hours remaining. In the past, creating a new snapshot always took less than 40 minutes. The 18.48 GB Secondary snapshot eventually took 3 hours 47 minutes to complete, over six times as long as normal. I decided to experiment and created a new archive snapshot. That 18.67 GB snapshot only took 36 minutes to complete. Thinking the previous unusually long copy process was some sort of fluke, I removed that snapshot and created another new Secondary. This time it took 3 hours 51 minutes to finish.

I’m in a state of utter befuddlement. When I update snapshots, FD-ISR’s activity log usually reports 2, 16 or 4,580 errors while the “show details” window invariably shows 0 errors. Sometimes creating a new snapshot will take 36 minutes, sometimes an identical size snapshot will take nearly four hours. I hope some of the FD-ISR experts here have a clue how I may resolve these bizarre problems.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I used FD-ISR on my old Windows XP PC for two years without any significant problems. So long as I remembered to turn off ProcessGuard, snapshots were always created or updated without any errors. Last month, I bought a new PC (HP m8120n, Intel Core 2 Duo Q6600, 3 GB RAM) with the Vista Home Premium OS. I installed FD-ISR v3.2, created backup snapshots labeled Alternate and Secondary as well as a couple archive snapshots, and the program seemed to function perfectly. There was no ProcessGuard or other HIPS software to disable and under “show details,” FD-ISR always reported 0 errors when snapshots were created or updated.

This morning, as a snapshot was finishing being updated and just before the window closed, the scrolling text reported 2 errors while the “show details” error block said 0. Checking the activity log, 2 errors were listed. Reviewing the log, I was shocked to discover that most of the updates I’d made on my new PC contained errors; usually 2, sometimes 16, and occasionally 4,580! (this despite 0 errors invariably displayed under “show details” at the time the snapshots were updated). When 2 errors were shown, they were always: “Error - SSN::GetTempFileName[1]: Access is denied. Windows error number 5.” When 16 or 4,580 errors were listed, they were always: “Error - SSN::SetFileShortName: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. Windows error number 183.”

I uninstalled FD-ISR using the option to save existing snapshots. I rebooted, reinstalled FD-ISR, rebooted again then updated the Alternate and Secondary snapshots. The activity log listed two errors for each snapshot; the update window stated 0 errors. According to the log, a recent archive snapshot had been updated without any errors. I copied that snapshot to my Alternate snapshot, rebooted into that snapshot, renamed it as Primary and renamed the old Primary as Alternate. Then I copied my Primary snapshot to the Alternate with zero errors shown, both on the update window and the activity log. Success! Then I copied the Primary to the Secondary snapshot. 4,580 errors! :o I can’t comprehend why making these two updates resulted in one perfect snapshot and the other with thousands of errors.

Not keen on having a backup snapshot containing 4,580 errors, I had FD-ISR remove the Secondary snapshot. I then set FD-ISR to create a new copy of my Primary snapshot as Secondary. I returned to my PC a half hour later expecting the process to be nearly finished. I was stunned to discover the new snapshot was only 10% complete with an estimated 4 hours remaining. In the past, creating a new snapshot always took less than 40 minutes. The 18.48 GB Secondary snapshot eventually took 3 hours 47 minutes to complete, over six times as long as normal. I decided to experiment and created a new archive snapshot. That 18.67 GB snapshot only took 36 minutes to complete. Thinking the previous unusually long copy process was some sort of fluke, I removed that snapshot and created another new Secondary. This time it took 3 hours 51 minutes to finish.

I’m in a state of utter befuddlement. When I update snapshots, FD-ISR’s activity log usually reports 2, 16 or 4,580 errors while the “show details” window invariably shows 0 errors. Sometimes creating a new snapshot will take 36 minutes, sometimes an identical size snapshot will take nearly four hours. I hope some of the FD-ISR experts here have a clue how I may resolve these bizarre problems. <-QUOTE}

There is a bug in Vista that produces horrifically long copy error's and that is what you may be dealing with. I may try and load up my vista snapshot and see if I can get FDISR to run. I would turn in a support ticket to the vendor you acquired FDISR from, but realize you may be fighting the vista bug itself.

Pete

[Karen76]

Hello Pete,

I purchased my copy of FD-ISR from an authorized Raxco reseller.

I'd read about other posters in this forum who also experienced inexplicable copy/update errors with FD-ISR, but I wasn't sure they were using Vista. They reported filing support requests with Raxco without receiving any response. Between (1) Raxco no longer selling FD-ISR, (2) Raxco demonstrating a lack of zeal in handling FD-ISR support inquiries, and (3) My own negative experience with Raxco technical support, I'd hoped you or another guru here on Wilders might have some advice. I hadn't read of anyone else encountering the incredibly long times to create new snapshots I experienced today.

FD-ISR v3.2 is a tad short of being "Vista compatible" as I view the term. What I find particularly baffling is the lack of consistency in these problems. One minute FD-ISR works; a minute later you duplicate the same procedure with drastically different results.

Thanks for your reply. I always read your posts with great interest. You're the person primarily responsible for my buying FD-ISR in the first place and the program saved my bacon several times on my XP PC.

I'm able to restrain my enthusiasm for Vista. Unfortunately, HP no longer offers Windows XP on its PCs.

[PoetWarrior]

{QUOTE-> I used FD-ISR on my old Windows XP PC for two years without any significant problems. So long as I remembered to turn off ProcessGuard, snapshots were always created or updated without any errors. Last month, I bought a new PC (HP m8120n, Intel Core 2 Duo Q6600, 3 GB RAM) with the Vista Home Premium OS. I installed FD-ISR v3.2, created backup snapshots labeled Alternate and Secondary as well as a couple archive snapshots, and the program seemed to function perfectly. There was no ProcessGuard or other HIPS software to disable and under “show details,” FD-ISR always reported 0 errors when snapshots were created or updated.

This morning, as a snapshot was finishing being updated and just before the window closed, the scrolling text reported 2 errors while the “show details” error block said 0. Checking the activity log, 2 errors were listed. Reviewing the log, I was shocked to discover that most of the updates I’d made on my new PC contained errors; usually 2, sometimes 16, and occasionally 4,580! (this despite 0 errors invariably displayed under “show details” at the time the snapshots were updated). When 2 errors were shown, they were always: “Error - SSN::GetTempFileName[1]: Access is denied. Windows error number 5.” When 16 or 4,580 errors were listed, they were always: “Error - SSN::SetFileShortName: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. Windows error number 183.”

I uninstalled FD-ISR using the option to save existing snapshots. I rebooted, reinstalled FD-ISR, rebooted again then updated the Alternate and Secondary snapshots. The activity log listed two errors for each snapshot; the update window stated 0 errors. According to the log, a recent archive snapshot had been updated without any errors. I copied that snapshot to my Alternate snapshot, rebooted into that snapshot, renamed it as Primary and renamed the old Primary as Alternate. Then I copied my Primary snapshot to the Alternate with zero errors shown, both on the update window and the activity log. Success! Then I copied the Primary to the Secondary snapshot. 4,580 errors! :o I can’t comprehend why making these two updates resulted in one perfect snapshot and the other with thousands of errors.

Not keen on having a backup snapshot containing 4,580 errors, I had FD-ISR remove the Secondary snapshot. I then set FD-ISR to create a new copy of my Primary snapshot as Secondary. I returned to my PC a half hour later expecting the process to be nearly finished. I was stunned to discover the new snapshot was only 10% complete with an estimated 4 hours remaining. In the past, creating a new snapshot always took less than 40 minutes. The 18.48 GB Secondary snapshot eventually took 3 hours 47 minutes to complete, over six times as long as normal. I decided to experiment and created a new archive snapshot. That 18.67 GB snapshot only took 36 minutes to complete. Thinking the previous unusually long copy process was some sort of fluke, I removed that snapshot and created another new Secondary. This time it took 3 hours 51 minutes to finish.

I’m in a state of utter befuddlement. When I update snapshots, FD-ISR’s activity log usually reports 2, 16 or 4,580 errors while the “show details” window invariably shows 0 errors. Sometimes creating a new snapshot will take 36 minutes, sometimes an identical size snapshot will take nearly four hours. I hope some of the FD-ISR experts here have a clue how I may resolve these bizarre problems. <-QUOTE}

Hey Karen76,

I own Vista Home Premium and had the same problems with FD-ISR v 3.2. The logs indicated anywhere between 2 and over 4 thousand errors after a copy session while none were listed in the immediate summary.

I contacted Raxco and I believe it was Susie who worked with me. Raxco provided me with an updated copy engine file and they provided directions for file replacement. For me, it worked. No more errors in the logs.

Since Microsoft recently patched Vista, I found that I no longer need the Raxco fix. I can install FD v. 3.2 after reinstalling Vista and FD works perfectly now. Try Raxco's support team. They were responsive on my behalf.

Even trying SP 3.0 now and all is working nicely.

Wish you the best,

PW

[Horus37]

So are you using the "old copy engine" then? Wonder what it was with microsofts own patching that somehow helped FDISR and it's copy engine? Why did they have you reinstall vista?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hello Pete,

I purchased my copy of FD-ISR from an authorized Raxco reseller.

I'd read about other posters in this forum who also experienced inexplicable copy/update errors with FD-ISR, but I wasn't sure they were using Vista. They reported filing support requests with Raxco without receiving any response. Between (1) Raxco no longer selling FD-ISR, (2) Raxco demonstrating a lack of zeal in handling FD-ISR support inquiries, and (3) My own negative experience with Raxco technical support, I'd hoped you or another guru here on Wilders might have some advice. I hadn't read of anyone else encountering the incredibly long times to create new snapshots I experienced today.

FD-ISR v3.2 is a tad short of being "Vista compatible" as I view the term. What I find particularly baffling is the lack of consistency in these problems. One minute FD-ISR works; a minute later you duplicate the same procedure with drastically different results.

Thanks for your reply. I always read your posts with great interest. You're the person primarily responsible for my buying FD-ISR in the first place and the program saved my bacon several times on my XP PC.

I'm able to restrain my enthusiasm for Vista. Unfortunately, HP no longer offers Windows XP on its PCs. <-QUOTE}

See PM

[PoetWarrior]

{QUOTE-> So are you using the "old copy engine" then? Wonder what it was with microsofts own patching that somehow helped FDISR and it's copy engine? Why did they have you reinstall vista? <-QUOTE}


Hey Horus37,

Yep, I am now using the FD original 3.2 copy engine instead of the Raxco replacement file.

I reinstalled Vista just to make sure nothing's hiding on my system. Why? I recently discovered Returnil and thought I should start fresh. Plus, I like tinkering.

It's my pure speculation that the patching from Microsoft made the difference because I never had the original FD 3.2 perform without log errors (never any contact with MS by the way). The only thing I can think of is that I acquired the performance patching before I installed and used FD 3.2 this time.

Have to admit I wasn't expecting it and I could be entirely wrong, but something changed. I've installed Vista a few times now partly for practice (OEM version) and FD 3.2 always gave me the log errors. Getting spooky ;0)

[mrfargoreed]

I've just installed Vista, too, and having the same problems with FDISR - over 4000 errors, most of them the “Error - SSN::SetFileShortName: Cannot create a file when that file already exists. Windows error number 183" error.

When I boot into Vista, it seems to wok ok though. Very strange.

[Coff]

Do you get errors if you use RSS rather than the default VSS? I've gone back through about a dozen logs involving making vista snapshots/archives/exports but can't find any errors but I use RSS.

You can change from VSS to RSS using the command prompt :

cd \$ISR\$APP\Setup
ISRSetup -install -rss

Reboot.

To change it back to VSS, use the same command prompt but insert -vss instead of -rss.

(In Vista, you should probably run the command prompt with admin privileges.Right click the command prompt shortcut, properties, advanced, and tick the appropriate box.)

[Peter2150]

I just did an upgrade install of Vista, to test FDISR as itis installed along side of SP which also uses VSS. Created a new shapshot and did a copy of about 135000 files with no errors.

Preboot was disabled and wouldn't enable, but what the heck, you can't have everything.;D

Restored XP pro image so that is gone.

Pete

[Karen76]

Yesterday, I contacted Raxco support and sent them the (very large) SupportInfo file and screenshot they requested. My last e-mail from them said their development team would review the information.

Today, I updated or created six FD-ISR snapshots. Four were completed with no errors, two had 16 errors (even though the error field in "show details" always reported 0 errors). If there's a pattern to when errors are made, or the number (2, 16 or 4,580), I can't discern it.

The feature to schedule FD-ISR backups also isn't working on my Vista PC and the FD-ISR system tray icon doesn't appear 5-10% of the time after rebooting.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Yesterday, I contacted Raxco support and sent them the (very large) SupportInfo file and screenshot they requested. My last e-mail from them said their development team would review the information.

Today, I updated or created six FD-ISR snapshots. Four were completed with no errors, two had 16 errors (even though the error field in "show details" always reported 0 errors). If there's a pattern to when errors are made, or the number (2, 16 or 4,580), I can't discern it.

The feature to schedule FD-ISR backups also isn't working on my Vista PC and the FD-ISR system tray icon doesn't appear 5-10% of the time after rebooting. <-QUOTE}

Karen

Just so you understand, what they do is send the info you sent to "development" which in this case is Leapfrog. Need to allow a bit for back and forth time. Scheduling as has been mentioned isn't one of FDISR's strong points. Most of us don't use it. I like to update FDISR stuff when I am not doing anything else.

Cheers,

Pete

[mrfargoreed]

{QUOTE-> Do you get errors if you use RSS rather than the default VSS? I've gone back through about a dozen logs involving making vista snapshots/archives/exports but can't find any errors but I use RSS.

You can change from VSS to RSS using the command prompt :

cd \$ISR\$APP\Setup
ISRSetup -install -rss

Reboot.

To change it back to VSS, use the same command prompt but insert -vss instead of -rss.

(In Vista, you should probably run the command prompt with admin privileges.Right click the command prompt shortcut, properties, advanced, and tick the appropriate box.) <-QUOTE}


Tried changing to rss and still the same amount of errors. Everything appears to work ok though. I would have thought that if the errors were bad ones I wouldn't be able to boot into Vista or install anything. Seems to work fine - just don't like seeing such a huge amount of errors.

Thanks for the advice, by the way :thumb:

[Karen76]

I wish these inexplicable, recurring errors were the only problems I was having with FD-ISR and Vista. Yesterday, I created a couple new archive snapshots with no errors which took around 35 minutes each to complete. Last night, I removed my Secondary snapshot (which had been updated with errors) and tried to create a new one. An hour later, FD-ISR was at 10% progress and an estimated five hours to go. I cancelled the operation and removed the partial snapshot. I tried again with the same results. The third time, after an hour and 10% progress, I went to bed thinking surely the operation would finish during the night. This morning, FD-ISR said the snapshot was 27% complete with an estimated 26 hours to go! :o

Twenty-eight minutes ago, I tried for the fourth time to make a new Secondary Snapshot. FD-ISR is set to "High" Priority as usual. At this moment, FD-ISR says the snapshot is 9% complete with 5 hours remaining. It's going to be a long day. ::)

[ErikAlbert]

Karen,
As far I understood, your previous computer was running WinXPproSP2.
Don't you have a "WinXPproSP2 Installation CD" anymore to install WinXPproSP2 on your new computer to get rid of all these problems.
I would go crazy, if I had your problems. :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I wish these inexplicable, recurring errors were the only problems I was having with FD-ISR and Vista. Yesterday, I created a couple new archive snapshots with no errors which took around 35 minutes each to complete. Last night, I removed my Secondary snapshot (which had been updated with errors) and tried to create a new one. An hour later, FD-ISR was at 10% progress and an estimated five hours to go. I cancelled the operation and removed the partial snapshot. I tried again with the same results. The third time, after an hour and 10% progress, I went to bed thinking surely the operation would finish during the night. This morning, FD-ISR said the snapshot was 27% complete with an estimated 26 hours to go! :o

Twenty-eight minutes ago, I tried for the fourth time to make a new Secondary Snapshot. FD-ISR is set to "High" Priority as usual. At this moment, FD-ISR says the snapshot is 9% complete with 5 hours remaining. It's going to be a long day. ::) <-QUOTE}

Karen, I think you might be fighting the infamous vista bug about slow file coping. You can google 'vista File copy slow" and get pages of stuff.
Erik's suggestion is the only thing I can think of.

[Karen76]

Erik and Pete,

My new and old PCs are both Hewlett-Packard models. HP PCs (and those of many other manufacturers) don't come with Windows installation CDs; instead, they have a recovery partition in case a reformat is needed. Also, the developer needs to identify and correct these problems and that's only going to happen if lab rats ... er, FD-ISR users with Vista PCs ... report the deficiencies and assist in fixing them.

While it's possible the update/copy error problem has existed all along with FD-ISR on my Vista PC (since the "show details" window always reports 0 errors even if there are actually thousands), this delay of several hours to create a new snapshot which should only take around 35 minutes has only occurred in the last few days.

The only recent change to my PC is I installed the trial version of ShadowProtect. The first time I ran it, I got a BSOD (the first one on my Vista PC), system crash, then upon restarting my PC emitted a terrible noise like a hog being gelded. Evidently, ShadowProtect conflicted with Seagate DiscWizard or some other software. Reviewing the activity log, however, confirms that my FD-ISR problems predated the (brief) installation of ShadowProtect.

I just sent a new SupportInfo file to Raxco and hope it's of some use to the development team at Leapfrog. In the meantime, I'll patiently munch some cheese and stick more needles in my Bill Gates doll. :)

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> Karen, I think you might be fighting the infamous vista bug about slow file coping. You can google 'vista File copy slow" and get pages of stuff.
Erik's suggestion is the only thing I can think of. <-QUOTE}

Pete,

I did the Google search you suggested and discovered two commonly proposed procedures which seemed to help some people. These were to go into Control Panel and turn off Remote Differential Compression and/or install Windows Vista hotfix KB938979. I performed both of these steps and they made no difference on my PC. FD-ISR snapshots which should take around 35 minutes to create still require about four hours or longer.

I hope the wizards at Leapfrog can devise some solutions.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Pete,

I did the Google search you suggested and discovered two commonly proposed procedures which seemed to help some people. These were to go into Control Panel and turn off Remote Differential Compression and/or install Windows Vista hotfix KB938979. I performed both of these steps and they made no difference on my PC. FD-ISR snapshots which should take around 35 minutes to create still require about four hours or longer.

I hope the wizards at Leapfrog can devise some solutions. <-QUOTE}

Do you have something on your machine with a large number files you can try coping off disk. That might give you an idea if its just FDISR or Vista.

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> Do you have something on your machine with a large number files you can try coping off disk. That might give you an idea if its just FDISR or Vista. <-QUOTE}

I've been copying a large number of files off disk in anticipation of possibly doing a reformat. The copy times aren't unusually slow. The problems I'm experiencing are definitely related to FD-ISR or at least FD-ISR and Vista together.

I just sent Raxco support a screenshot showing a snapshot update which contained 7 errors despite the Transfer Info block showing 0 errors.

[stapp]

With you having vista Karen, is your system restore turned off?

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> With you having vista Karen, is your system restore turned off? <-QUOTE}

Yes, I turned off System Restore just prior to installing FD-ISR.

[Peter2150]

I removed a number of off topic posts(including one of mne) from this thread.

Pete

[Karen76]

One of my two FD-ISR-related problems may be fixed now.

Raxco support sent me a different copy engine file to replace the one normally present in FD-ISR v3.2. What should have been a simple procedure took three frustrating hours. I was told to go into Control Panel > Administrative Tools to stop the FD-ISR service. This couldn't be done since "stop" and other commands were grayed out. I was told to try it in Safe Mode. I then discovered I can't get my new Vista PC to reboot into Safe Mode. I don't know if the F8 key on my Logitech wireless keyboard isn't working or what. I finally used Process Explorer to kill the service.

Then I had to replace the old copy engine file in the \$ISR\0 folder with the new one. It took two infuriating hours before Vista finally allowed me to open this file even though I'm an Administrator. It was a recurring nightmare in the Security/Advanced tab following Windows' listed edit procedures only to be constantly told "access is denied."

When I finally did get the new file installed, I updated two regular and four archive snapshots (stored on two different hard drives) with no errors or unusual delays. When I attempted to create a new snapshot, however, it took several hours instead of the usual 35 minutes or so. I guess my last resort will be to do a reformat in the hope this might solve the problem. Raxco support wondered if my hard drive might be going bad. I would like to think an Hitachi drive would last more than one month. System diagnostics report the drive is healthy and my only file copy problems occur when I use FD-ISR.

I did notice one tiny glitch using the new copy engine file. When snapshots are renamed, the text which appears at the end of the process says "ARENAME" instead of "RENAME." I can live with that. :)

[Peter2150]

FDISR is fine under Vista here. Unfortunately tasks which are simple under XP are a pain under Vista.

[Karen76]

I reformatted my PC hoping this might correct the problems I’ve experienced recently with FD-ISR errors and snapshots taking far too long to complete. After the 12-hour chore of reformatting, downloading Windows updates via dial-up, and reinstalling programs and data files, I created a snapshot. The snapshot which should have taken around 35 minutes to make took over 3.5 hours (at least there were no errors). Then I pondered a new idea. When I set up my new Vista PC last month, I installed NOD32 and used the Windows firewall; there were no obvious FD-ISR problems. A couple weeks later, KIS v7 was released and I replaced NOD32 with KIS.

I wondered if KIS (possibly its Proactive Defense module) was somehow the culprit. I replaced KIS with NOD32 and my first FD-ISR snapshot took just under an hour to finish, albeit with 8 pesky errors. I then used Auslogics Disk Defrag to defragment my C drive.

Rebooting into a KIS snapshot, I defragmented the C drive, turned off KIS’s Proactive Defense then made a new regular snapshot. It took well over three hours; turning off PDM had no effect. All of these snapshots were made using FD-ISR with the original copy engine file and were approximately 18.7 GB in size. I spent two infuriating hours fighting Vista to gain access to the $ISR\0 folder without success. I’ll try again to replace the copy engine file with the one Raxco support sent me when I’m not suffering from sleep deprivation. The regular (as opposed to archive) NOD32 snapshots always contained 8 errors despite the error block under Transfer Info in “show details” reporting 0 errors. The last entry in these activity logs stated 8 errors but I couldn’t find these errors when I reviewed the logs. Before reformatting, errors cited in the log were readily identifiable in the log’s contents.

I don’t pretend these results are scientifically valid, but I think they may indicate a relationship between KIS and the long copy times I’ve experienced with FD-ISR on my Vista PC. What I find incomprehensible is just a few days ago I made consecutive snapshots (with KIS active); the first took 36 minutes, the second took nearly four hours. That established KIS doesn’t always cause a delay in copying files with FD-ISR.

Summary of snapshot results:

KIS v7 all modules active - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 33 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 57 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, internal drive - 29 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, external drive - 44 minutes - 0 errors

KIS v7, PDM disabled - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 19 minutes - 0 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 1 hour 7 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Regular snapshot - 1 hour 10 minutes - 8 errors

NOD32 - Archive snapshot, internal drive - 31 minutes - 0 errors

[Peter2150]

Hi Karen

Having spent many hours with beta's of KAV/KIS(which I no longer use) I would highly recommend disabling any scanning type software when doing copy updates. Same is true for defragging. If you think about it, both operations, are accessing all the files, and real time scanners than have to try and scan them.

Also after having KAV on for two years, I've finally taken off all AV/AS software. Boy like having a new machine.

Pete

PS. I don't think PDM would slow down FDISR, might drive you crazy with pop up's but shouldn't cause a slowdown.

[Peter2150]

Hi Karen

Having spent many hours with beta's of KAV/KIS(which I no longer use) I would highly recommend disabling any scanning type software when doing copy updates. Same is true for defragging. If you think about it, both operations, are accessing all the files, and real time scanners than have to try and scan them.

Also after having KAV on for two years, I've finally taken off all AV/AS software. Boy like having a new machine.

Pete

PS. I don't think PDM would slow down FDISR, might drive you crazy with pop up's but shouldn't cause a slowdown.

PPS When you get the errors try a recopy. You might find the errors clear up

[Karen76]

Hi Pete,

While I would never run FD-ISR copy/update while a defragmentation program was running, I had no idea it was necessary to turn off an anti-virus program. I used FD-ISR for two years on my old XP PC, mostly with NOD32 but occasionally KIS v6, and never experienced unusually long copy times or snapshot errors (so long as I remembered to disable ProcessGuard). If AV software is causing conflicts with FD-ISR, I'm surprised I haven't read about other people reporting such problems.

After 30 minutes of blundering and cursing Microsoft, I finally got Vista to let me access the $ISR\0 folder so I was able to replace the copy engine file with the "debug" file Raxco support sent me. I'm now in the process of creating and updating snapshots so I can send a new SupportInfo file to Raxco/Leapfrog. I'd really like cogent explanations for the snapshot time disparities between KIS v7 and NOD32 and why errors reported in the FD-ISR activity log appear as "Errors 0" in the Transfer Info window.

KIS's PDM hasn't given me any FD-ISR-related pop-ups. One of the reasons why I put KIS v7 on my new PC is for its registry protection feature (since ProcessGuard and RegDefend I used on my old PC aren't compatible with Vista).

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hi Pete,

While I would never run FD-ISR copy/update while a defragmentation program was running, I had no idea it was necessary to turn off an anti-virus program. I used FD-ISR for two years on my old XP PC, mostly with NOD32 but occasionally KIS v6, and never experienced unusually long copy times or snapshot errors (so long as I remembered to disable ProcessGuard). If AV software is causing conflicts with FD-ISR, I'm surprised I haven't read about other people reporting such problems.

After 30 minutes of blundering and cursing Microsoft, I finally got Vista to let me access the $ISR\0 folder so I was able to replace the copy engine file with the "debug" file Raxco support sent me. I'm now in the process of creating and updating snapshots so I can send a new SupportInfo file to Raxco/Leapfrog. I'd really like cogent explanations for the snapshot time disparities between KIS v7 and NOD32 and why errors reported in the FD-ISR activity log appear as "Errors 0" in the Transfer Info window.

KIS's PDM hasn't given me any FD-ISR-related pop-ups. One of the reasons why I put KIS v7 on my new PC is for its registry protection feature (since ProcessGuard and RegDefend I used on my old PC aren't compatible with Vista). <-QUOTE}

Having the AV enabled won't cause problems in the usual sense but will cause a slight slowdown. If someone never turned off an av, they would never know, but it does make a difference.

[Karen76]

After replacing the copy engine file with the one Raxco support sent me, I created some new regular snapshots. Each took slightly over one hour to complete with 8 errors. The text in the copy/update window after finalization said 8 errors while the Transfer Info section said "Errors 0"; the last entry in the activity logs reported 8 errors but no errors were listed in the logs' contents.

Rebooting into the KIS snapshot, it took 3.5 hours or so to make a new snapshot (with no errors). I disconnected from the Internet, turned off KIS, and there was no effect on snapshot creation times. After uninstalling KIS and rebooting, it took around 1 hour 40 minutes to complete a regular snapshot. Reinstalling KIS, snapshot completion time was back to around 3.5 hours. I'm confounded why (a) snapshot times are far longer with KIS installed than NOD32, (b) why turning off KIS had no impact on snapshot times, and (c) why it took over 30 minutes longer to make a new snapshot in a system with no anti-virus (after KIS was uninstalled) than one in which NOD32 was active.

I hope the wizards at Leapfrog have some answers after they've reviewed the SupportInfo logs I submitted. Life was so much simpler with my XP PC. :'(

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> After replacing the copy engine file with the one Raxco support sent me, I created some new regular snapshots. Each took slightly over one hour to complete with 8 errors. The text in the copy/update window after finalization said 8 errors while the Transfer Info section said "Errors 0"; the last entry in the activity logs reported 8 errors but no errors were listed in the logs' contents.

Rebooting into the KIS snapshot, it took 3.5 hours or so to make a new snapshot (with no errors). I disconnected from the Internet, turned off KIS, and there was no effect on snapshot creation times. After uninstalling KIS and rebooting, it took around 1 hour 40 minutes to complete a regular snapshot. Reinstalling KIS, snapshot completion time was back to around 3.5 hours. I'm confounded why (a) snapshot times are far longer with KIS installed than NOD32, (b) why turning off KIS had no impact on snapshot times, and (c) why it took over 30 minutes longer to make a new snapshot in a system with no anti-virus (after KIS was uninstalled) than one in which NOD32 was active.

I hope the wizards at Leapfrog have some answers after they've reviewed the SupportInfo logs I submitted. Life was so much simpler with my XP PC. :'( <-QUOTE}

Karen

Unfortunately disabling software doesn't necessarily negate it's effects. I had Faronic's AE installed, but disabled, and it was wreaking havoc on my FDISR times. Uninstalled it and wow, like a new machine. You just never know.

Pete

[fce]

{QUOTE->

Summary of snapshot results:

KIS v7 all modules active - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 33 minutes - 0 errors

KIS v7, PDM disabled - Regular snapshot - 3 hours 19 minutes - 0 errors
<-QUOTE}

wow! more that 3hours of waiting is not good for me. nice experiment Karen!

I find FDISR review pretty good but if that's how it takes to make snapshot i think i just stay with rollback rx which give me less than 1minute (sometimes only 10secs) to make snapshot.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> wow! more that 3hours of waiting is not good for me. nice experiment Karen!

I find FDISR review pretty good but if that's how it takes to make snapshot i think i just stay with rollback rx which give me less than 1minute (sometimes only 10secs) to make snapshot. <-QUOTE}

That is not at all normal for FDISR. I made a full copy of a snapshot under vista in 30 minutes. Updates take about 5 minutes.

Part of the problem under Vista is it's, well hugh.

On my XP system I have two snapshots One is my full working snapshot. The other is completely stripped down, but I put a 8gb game in it. Total space on the disk is 27gb. Same setup under Vista, but without the big game and the space used was 48gig. That's terrible.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> That is not at all normal for FDISR. I made a full copy of a snapshot under vista in 30 minutes. Updates take about 5 minutes.

Part of the problem under Vista is it's, well hugh.

On my XP system I have two snapshots One is my full working snapshot. The other is completely stripped down, but I put a 8gb game in it. Total space on the disk is 27gb. Same setup under Vista, but without the big game and the space used was 48gig. That's terrible. <-QUOTE}

30mins is not bad...but more than an hour is terrible (almost the same as windows system restore).

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> wow! more that 3hours of waiting is not good for me. nice experiment Karen!

I find FDISR review pretty good but if that's how it takes to make snapshot i think i just stay with rollback rx which give me less than 1minute (sometimes only 10secs) to make snapshot. <-QUOTE}

Please don't judge FD-ISR simply based on my current problems. I'm sure I've read about more RollbackRx troubles than FD-ISR ones. I apparently have an uncanny knack of attracting software trouble. The only problem (actually a near disaster) I experienced with FD-ISR in two years on my old XP PC was when I did a defrag using a trial of Perfect Disk 8. Most people will tell you PD8 is completely compatible with FD-ISR. Only an Acronis True Image backup saved me after PD8 trashed FD-ISR on my system (couldn't even reinstall FD-ISR).

My current Vista/FD-ISR problems are confined to long snapshot creation times with KIS v7 installed and possibly innocuous errors which may turn out to be nothing more than reporting glitches. Normally, an 18 GB snapshot only takes around an hour to create and archive snapshots may only require half that time. After backup snapshots are made, I usually rely on updates. The copy/update process usually just takes several minutes. The only reason I've made so many snapshots recently is to gather information to send to Raxco/Leapfrog support.

By their silence, it's safe to assume most FD-ISR users aren't experiencing the problems I am (or not using Vista/KIS v7). Hopefully, Leapfrog will eventually come up with some solutions for me as I'd hate to not be able to use my 3-year KIS license or have to buy a Windows XP installation CD.

[Horus37]

FDISR and PD8 running here without any problems on xp. I don't you KIS. Nor do I have an intel chip like what member FDE is facing. Vista is a whole new animal I don't want to get involved with.

[Rilla927]

Hi Karen,

Sorry to see you having problems. I have been using Vista Ultimate & FD-ISR with KIS7 for about 6 weeks (uninstalled a few days ago to migrate to a new machine)and it has went very smooth.

There is a setting in there (don't remember exactly where) where I marked all services to do with FD to trusted, then do not scan open files, do not restrict registry and it has worked well. I disable/ close everything out in my system tray before I do a copy/update just so there are no potential conflicts.

The copy/updates do take a bit longer in Vista for me compared to XP. It sounds like Kav is scanning all the files.

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> Hi Karen,

Sorry to see you having problems. I have been using Vista Ultimate & FD-ISR with KIS7 for about 6 weeks (uninstalled a few days ago to migrate to a new machine)and it has went very smooth.

There is a setting in there (don't remember exactly where) where I marked all services to do with FD to trusted, then do not scan open files, do not restrict registry and it has worked well. I disable/ close everything out in my system tray before I do a copy/update just so there are no potential conflicts.

The copy/updates do take a bit longer in Vista for me compared to XP. It sounds like Kav is scanning all the files. <-QUOTE}

With KIS v7 installed on my PC, I just created a new snapshot and updated another one. It took 3 hours 28 minutes for the snapshot to finish (with 2 errors reported in the activity log but not shown anywhere in the copy/update window); the update took 16 minutes. Then I configured KIS placing my C drive's entire \$ISR\ folder and all FD-ISR services in the "trusted zone." I removed the snapshot I'd just created and made a new one; it took 3 hours 27 minutes (with no errors) to complete. Once KIS is installed on my Vista system, I can turn off KIS or place FD-ISR in the trusted zone and snapshots still take three times longer to create than with KIS uninstalled or when using NOD32.

This afternoon, I grew so frustrated with the long snapshot copy times with KIS that I uninstalled it from my Vista PC then installed it on my old XP PC. When I went to activate, the program refused to accept my Kaspersky key file or the activation code I received when I purchased KIS from Systweak months ago. >:( Does anyone know any good Russian curse words? I wound up returning KIS v7 to my Vista PC by restoring an Acronis True Image backup.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> With KIS v7 installed on my PC, I just created a new snapshot and updated another one. It took 3 hours 28 minutes for the snapshot to finish (with 2 errors reported in the activity log but not shown anywhere in the copy/update window); the update took 16 minutes. Then I configured KIS placing my C drive's entire \$ISR\ folder and all FD-ISR services in the "trusted zone." I removed the snapshot I'd just created and made a new one; it took 3 hours 27 minutes (with no errors) to complete. Once KIS is installed on my Vista system, I can turn off KIS or place FD-ISR in the trusted zone and snapshots still take three times longer to create than with KIS uninstalled or when using NOD32.

This afternoon, I grew so frustrated with the long snapshot copy times with KIS that I uninstalled it from my Vista PC then installed it on my old XP PC. When I went to activate, the program refused to accept my Kaspersky key file or the activation code I received when I purchased KIS from Systweak months ago. >:( Does anyone know any good Russian curse words? I wound up returning KIS v7 to my Vista PC by restoring an Acronis True Image backup. <-QUOTE}

HI Karen

You need to upgrade Vista to XP Pro;D I don't know any Russian curse words, but you can probably get that key reset, by email Kaspersky support. I liked KAV, but my machine is breathing easier without it. If nothing else they can help you with that on the Kaspersky forum.

Pete

[Longboard]

@Karen:
There was an unusual thread at dslr re issues with KAV indexing and there have been several others about ADS streams
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18608452-Kaspersky-You-lost-me-at-ISwift
there is some of the usual name calling nonsense but there was also some meat.

I dont have KAV but just wondering...

...where is Todd while we are meandering along here...?

Regards

btw nice efforts by you and some good posts :thumb:

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> @Karen:
There was an unusual thread at dslr re issues with KAV indexing and there have been several others about ADS streams
http://www.dslreports.com/forum/r18608452-Kaspersky-You-lost-me-at-ISwift
there is some of the usual name calling nonsense but there was also some meat.

I dont have KAV but just wondering...

...where is Todd while we are meandering along here...?

Regards

btw nice efforts by you and some good posts :thumb: <-QUOTE}


ADS streams are totally and completely irrelevant. KAV hasn't used them since version 5.0. Also that thread mainly dealt with KAV causing delays with chkdsk, and not really a vista issue.

Now what may being going on with Vista and Kaspersky who knows.

One thing I did discover here was that KAV 7.0 did put a drag on my machine, in general. BUt I didn't see the impact on FDISR that Karen is seeing.

I did see longer copy times with FDISR under Vista, but that could easily be attribuited to the fact there was twice as many files.

[Longboard]

OK
Just a thought
No Vista here yet.
Still stockpiling XPPro CDs Heh

I'm moving more in your (Peter) direction: less and less AV stuff (signature scanners anyway)

Regards.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
I'm moving more in your (Peter) direction: less and less AV stuff (signature scanners anyway) <-QUOTE}
I ran KAV, NOD32, SUPERAntiSpyware, ... all three couldn't find anything in my frozen snapshot, not even a false positive. ;D
I clean my frozen snapshot in 2 minutes, all these scanners needed more than 20 minutes to find ... NOTHING.

[Karen76]

For the past two weeks I've been jumping through hoops like a trained seal creating numerous snapshots, replacing files, performing tests, compiling/sending reports, etc. for Raxco/Leapfrog support in the hope of resolving my problems. After replacing FD-ISR's copy engine file twice with different ones supplied by Raxco, I no longer get errors when snapshots are created. Whether these were ever genuine errors or merely Vista/FD-ISR reporting glitches is a question I can't get answered.

It's the consensus of Raxco and Leapfrog that KIS's "filter driver" is responsible for FD-ISR snapshots taking three times longer to make with KIS installed compared to NOD32. If this is correct then I don't understand why hundreds or thousands of folks aren't reporting this problem since KIS/KAV and FD-ISR are popular software. Perhaps this problem is confined to Vista users and then maybe it's just my PC's configuration. Searching through old posts in this forum, I found another person who complained about 20 GB FD-ISR snapshots taking three hours to make but he didn't mention what anti-virus program he used.

I did a Google search trying to find other people with KIS/FD-ISR problems. The following appears on Horizon DataSys Inc.'s website:

"We have found that Kaspersky Labs Anti-Virus adds a data attribute to the user's source files. This modification of the user's source files is against our integrity checks and thus Kaspersky Labs Anti-virus should not be installed for FirstDefense-ISR to fully protect your system. We have notified Kaspersky Labs, since any application performing file integrity checks may cause problems."

I contacted Kaspersky support about this problem as well as the fact my KIS keyfile/activation code is accepted in my Vista PC but not my XP PC. After a wait of several days, Kaspersky support asked me to send them my keyfile for review but failed to respond to the issue of FD-ISR snapshots taking far too long to create with KIS installed.

So it appears I have the choice of either keeping KIS and enduring a wait of 3.5 hours to create new snapshots or purchase a new license key for an anti-virus program fully compatible with FD-ISR.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> For the past two weeks I've been jumping through hoops like a trained seal creating numerous snapshots, replacing files, performing tests, compiling/sending reports, etc. for Raxco/Leapfrog support in the hope of resolving my problems. After replacing FD-ISR's copy engine file twice with different ones supplied by Raxco, I no longer get errors when snapshots are created. Whether these were ever genuine errors or merely Vista/FD-ISR reporting glitches is a question I can't get answered.

It's the consensus of Raxco and Leapfrog that KIS's "filter driver" is responsible for FD-ISR snapshots taking three times longer to make with KIS installed compared to NOD32. If this is correct then I don't understand why hundreds or thousands of folks aren't reporting this problem since KIS/KAV and FD-ISR are popular software. Perhaps this problem is confined to Vista users and then maybe it's just my PC's configuration. Searching through old posts in this forum, I found another person who complained about 20 GB FD-ISR snapshots taking three hours to make but he didn't mention what anti-virus program he used.

I did a Google search trying to find other people with KIS/FD-ISR problems. The following appears on Horizon DataSys Inc.'s website:

"We have found that Kaspersky Labs Anti-Virus adds a data attribute to the user's source files. This modification of the user's source files is against our integrity checks and thus Kaspersky Labs Anti-virus should not be installed for FirstDefense-ISR to fully protect your system. We have notified Kaspersky Labs, since any application performing file integrity checks may cause problems."

I contacted Kaspersky support about this problem as well as the fact my KIS keyfile/activation code is accepted in my Vista PC but not my XP PC. After a wait of several days, Kaspersky support asked me to send them my keyfile for review but failed to respond to the issue of FD-ISR snapshots taking far too long to create with KIS installed.

So it appears I have the choice of either keeping KIS and enduring a wait of 3.5 hours to create new snapshots or purchase a new license key for an anti-virus program fully compatible with FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

If it makes you feel any better, I have active licenses for 2 different AV's(Kav and Fprot) and licenses for SAS. None of them are still on my system, it is happier for it. Oh, I also have Faronic's AE and it was a disaster for FDISR. It's gone. I run two hips, Sandboxie,Shadow Defender, and FDISR, and both I and my system are very happy.

Pete

[DVD+R]

It'll take me hours to read all these posts, and I havent got time, but recently I get the FD-ISR Icon displaying a Red Cross when I reboot, and it says FD-ISR is disabled, and I cant find anyway of re-enabling it other than uninstaling (the program only) leaving the snapshots intact, and reinstalling FD-ISR again, Anyone else seen this at all ???

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> It'll take me hours to read all these posts, and I havent got time, but recently I get the FD-ISR Icon displaying a Red Cross when I reboot, and it says FD-ISR is disabled, and I cant find anyway of re-enabling it other than uninstaling (the program only) leaving the snapshots intact, and reinstalling FD-ISR again, Anyone else seen this at all ??? <-QUOTE}

I think you jinxed me! When I reboot, a red cross on the FD-ISR system tray icon normally appears but (until this morning) promptly disappears when FD-ISR is fully initialized. An hour ago, I rebooted in order to exit a Returnil session and the red cross on the FD-ISR icon appeared and remained. It took several tries before clicking on the icon got the FD-ISR control panel to appear. I checked the activity log and there were no error entries. All usual FD-ISR processes were operating yet the red cross remained (it normally appears if the ISRService.exe is disabled). I rebooted and the FD-ISR icon appeared/functioned normally.

I just uninstalled KIS and installed a trial of Avira Premium Security Suite. After rebooting, a red cross appeared on the FD-ISR icon and remained. The red cross symbol eventually went away but it took several minutes before this happened.

Did I already mention your post jinxed me? ;)

[DVD+R]

{QUOTE-> IDid I already mention your post jinxed me? ;) <-QUOTE}

Gosh! My Harry Potter Spell Casting and Wizardry has gotten Better ;D :P

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I think you jinxed me! When I reboot, a red cross on the FD-ISR system tray icon normally appears but (until this morning) promptly disappears when FD-ISR is fully initialized. An hour ago, I rebooted in order to exit a Returnil session and the red cross on the FD-ISR icon appeared and remained. It took several tries before clicking on the icon got the FD-ISR control panel to appear. I checked the activity log and there were no error entries. All usual FD-ISR processes were operating yet the red cross remained (it normally appears if the ISRService.exe is disabled). I rebooted and the FD-ISR icon appeared/functioned normally.

I just uninstalled KIS and installed a trial of Avira Premium Security Suite. After rebooting, a red cross appeared on the FD-ISR icon and remained. The red cross symbol eventually went away but it took several minutes before this happened.

Did I already mention your post jinxed me? ;) <-QUOTE}


I noticed you tried out PD8. Did you end up keeping it? If so then the combo of returnil and PD8 is problematic and has been reported on several occasions. I tried the combo out and it also produced errors with FDISR.

[pandlouk]

{QUOTE-> I noticed you tried out PD8. Did you end up keeping it? If so then the combo of returnil and PD8 is problematic and has been reported on several occasions. I tried the combo out and it also produced errors with FDISR. <-QUOTE}
I have Raxco RX Suite and perfect disk 8 with FD-ISR and they work fine together. At least on my system.

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> I noticed you tried out PD8. Did you end up keeping it? If so then the combo of returnil and PD8 is problematic and has been reported on several occasions. I tried the combo out and it also produced errors with FDISR. <-QUOTE}

No, after my single defrag with PD8 trashed FD-ISR and nearly caused a disaster on my XP PC, I uninstalled PD8 and lost all interest in it. I'm just funny like that.

Raxco support contended what I experienced couldn't have happened and I was reluctant to even mention it on this board since I realize so many folks here use FD-ISR and PD8 together with no issues. Perhaps it was sheer coincidence FD-ISR failed on my old PC immediately after running PD8. Perhaps the crisis was caused by sunspots or angry gods. In any event, I've never had PD8 and Returnil installed on any PC at the same time and PD8 has never been installed on my Vista PC. There's no connection between Returnil and the long snapshot times with KIS since that problem preceded my installation of Returnil.

I notified Raxco support about the red cross occasionally appearing on my FD-ISR system tray icon for a prolonged period and reminded them that 5-10% of the time when I reboot the FD-ISR icon never appears in the notification area. When this happens, ISRMonitor.exe has failed to start up. Their response was "It should show as soon as the system comes up. I’ve never seen a latency with it." Gee, I knew it "should show" and I'm experiencing more than just a "latency" on my PC. Raxco didn't evince any interest in pursuing the matter. Since I appear to be the only person reporting the problem and they no longer sell FD-ISR, I suppose there's no reason for them to want to devote time and resources to the matter.

I'm in the process of experimenting with making FD-ISR snapshots with different antivirus programs installed. So far, KIS is the only AV to cause unduly long snapshot copy times.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> No, after my single defrag with PD8 trashed FD-ISR and nearly caused a disaster on my XP PC, I uninstalled PD8 and lost all interest in it. I'm just funny like that.

Raxco support contended what I experienced couldn't have happened and I was reluctant to even mention it on this board since I realize so many folks here use FD-ISR and PD8 together with no issues. Perhaps it was sheer coincidence FD-ISR failed on my old PC immediately after running PD8. Perhaps the crisis was caused by sunspots or angry gods. In any event, I've never had PD8 and Returnil installed on any PC at the same time and PD8 has never been installed on my Vista PC. There's no connection between Returnil and the long snapshot times with KIS since that problem preceded my installation of Returnil.

I notified Raxco support about the red cross occasionally appearing on my FD-ISR system tray icon for a prolonged period and reminded them that 5-10% of the time when I reboot the FD-ISR icon never appears in the notification area. When this happens, ISRMonitor.exe has failed to start up. Their response was "It should show as soon as the system comes up. I’ve never seen a latency with it." Gee, I knew it "should show" and I'm experiencing more than just a "latency" on my PC. Raxco didn't evince any interest in pursuing the matter. Since I appear to be the only person reporting the problem and they no longer sell FD-ISR, I suppose there's no reason for them to want to devote time and resources to the matter.

I'm in the process of experimenting with making FD-ISR snapshots with different antivirus programs installed. So far, KIS is the only AV to cause unduly long snapshot copy times. <-QUOTE}

Karen

Although they no longer sell FDISR, my experience has been they are commited to supporting it. If you need help, and didn't get it, PM, me and I'll give you a contact.

Pete

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> Karen

Although they no longer sell FDISR, my experience has been they are commited to supporting it. If you need help, and didn't get it, PM, me and I'll give you a contact.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Hello Pete,

I'm pretty sure the person I'm dealing with at Raxco support is your "contact." I'm also pretty sure that person and I are getting tired of exchanging mostly futile e-mails. I know I'm getting tired of running tests which seem to be increasingly pointless.

Raxco/Leapfrog believe my experiences with extremely long snapshot copy times with KIS installed is due to KIS's filter driver. Then they assert there is no problem with using FD-ISR together with KIS. IMO, the fact a snapshot which takes an hour or so with NOD32 (or several other AVs) installed takes 3.5 hours to create with KIS v7 installed is a "problem." Kaspersky support won't even respond to my inquiries to them on this subject. It appears I have the choice of either keeping KIS and enduring extremely long copy/update times or use a different AV. What I don't understand is why more KIS/KAV and FD-ISR users aren't experiencing, or at least reporting, the unduly long snapshot times I am.

I find the occasional failure of ISRMonitor.exe to start up (and thereby no FD-ISR system tray icon) to be a minor nuisance. Rebooting doesn't bother me as much as it does some other folks here. I reported the problem to Raxco multiple times and they exhibited zero interest. This occurred rarely on my XP PC but more frequently (5-10% of the time) on my Vista PC. The issue of a red cross sometimes appearing and remaining on my FD-ISR icon (for more than a few seconds) is a new problem and may be attributed to DVD+R's budding interest in sorcery. When DVD+R achieves a more complete mastery of spell-casting, I have a long list of politicians, attorneys, judges, BATF agents and SWAT goons I want turned into toads. ;D

When I installed BitDefender Internet Security 2008 yesterday, I noticed a red cross would remain over the FD-ISR icon until I closed out of BDIS's nag screen wanting me to purchase/register the product. Only once has such a red cross symbol eventually failed to disappear; this occurred when I rebooted to exit a Returnil session. I hope that event was an isolated instance.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hello Pete,

I'm pretty sure the person I'm dealing with at Raxco support is your "contact." I'm also pretty sure that person and I are getting tired of exchanging mostly futile e-mails. I know I'm getting tired of running tests which seem to be increasingly pointless.

Raxco/Leapfrog believe my experiences with extremely long snapshot copy times with KIS installed is due to KIS's filter driver. Then they assert there is no problem with using FD-ISR together with KIS. IMO, the fact a snapshot which takes an hour or so with NOD32 (or several other AVs) installed takes 3.5 hours to create with KIS v7 installed is a "problem." Kaspersky support won't even respond to my inquiries to them on this subject. It appears I have the choice of either keeping KIS and enduring extremely long copy/update times or use a different AV. What I don't understand is why more KIS/KAV and FD-ISR users aren't experiencing, or at least reporting, the unduly long snapshot times I am.

I find the occasional failure of ISRMonitor.exe to start up (and thereby no FD-ISR system tray icon) to be a minor nuisance. Rebooting doesn't bother me as much as it does some other folks here. I reported the problem to Raxco multiple times and they exhibited zero interest. This occurred rarely on my XP PC but more frequently (5-10% of the time) on my Vista PC. The issue of a red cross sometimes appearing and remaining on my FD-ISR icon (for more than a few seconds) is a new problem and may be attributed to DVD+R's budding interest in sorcery. When DVD+R achieves a more complete mastery of spell-casting, I have a long list of politicians, attorneys, judges, BATF agents and SWAT goons I want turned into toads. ;D

When I installed BitDefender Internet Security 2008 yesterday, I noticed a red cross would remain over the FD-ISR icon until I closed out of BDIS's nag screen wanting me to purchase/register the product. Only once has such a red cross symbol eventually failed to disappear; this occurred when I rebooted to exit a Returnil session. I hope that event was an isolated instance. <-QUOTE}

I've given up on scanner stuff, like av's and as's. System runs so much better.

[DVD+R]

{QUOTE-> The issue of a red cross sometimes appearing and remaining on my FD-ISR icon (for more than a few seconds) is a new problem and may be attributed to DVD+R's budding interest in sorcery. When DVD+R achieves a more complete mastery of spell-casting, I have a long list of politicians, attorneys, judges, BATF agents and SWAT goons I want turned into toads. <-QUOTE}

My Sorcery is indeed Sublime 8) Several undesireables have been vanished without a trace with just my say 8) For a fair price I can eliminate all your unwarented problems, and Share my Secret in Prestidigitarianism :lurking:

Note: Did you notice Rosie O'Donnel isnt on TV anymore :dry: I Banquished her to the land of Irritiblebowlsyndrome *puppy*

[Karen76]

I feel like I'm writing this from the Twilight Zone. Raxco support wanted me to make some new NOD32 and KIS snapshots and monitor the data transfer rates. Since I was busy testing different security suites with FD-ISR, I nearly didn't bother with this chore since I thought it would be pointless. Since snapshots made with KIS installed took three times longer than with other AVs, I figured the transfer rate had to be slower. I'm stunned by the results I just experienced:

First, I booted into a snapshot with NOD32 (actually Eset Security Suite beta 2 which has some bugs in it) installed. I deleted all regular snapshots except for two: one with ESS and the other with KIS v7 (my original primary snapshot). I then copied the ESS snapshot into a new snapshot. I recorded the transfer rates at three stages during the copy process:

ESS snapshot - size: 18.75 GB - time to create: 53 minutes

Time elapsed - Transfer rate

15 minutes - 2890 KB/second
31 minutes - 6030 KB/second
48 minutes - 6200 KB/second

Next, I rebooted into the KIS snapshot and deleted the snapshot I'd just made. Then I set FD-ISR to creating a new snapshot by copying the KIS snapshot. A few minutes into this process, a KIS popup window appeared saying "Please restart your computer to complete the installation of new or updated protection components." I postponed rebooting so I could complete the snapshot currently being created. At the 15-minute mark, I checked the update window and nearly fainted. Here are the results:

KIS snapshot - size: 18.91 GB - time to create: 60 minutes

Time elapsed - Transfer rate

15 minutes - 2740 KB/second
31 minutes - 4940 KB/second
48 minutes - 5710 KB/second

I have no idea why snapshots this size which previously took 3.5 hours to make with KIS installed suddenly just took one hour. I was mesmerized watching the update window as KIS snapshots were processed quickly. The only change I can think of to this snapshot configuration was the message I received saying KIS had downloaded/installed some program update. That update hadn't even been fully installed when this snapshot was made since I hadn't rebooted yet.

I rebooted, deleted the new snapshot then, in the expectation of copying an identical size snapshot with KIS as the one I made with ESS installed, I set FD-ISR to copy the ESS snapshot into a new snapshot. Here are the results:

KIS snapshot (copy of ESS snapshot) - size: 15.85 GB - time to create: 51 minutes

Time Elapsed - Transfer rate

15 minutes - 4570 KB/second
31 minutes - 5570 KB/second
48 minutes - 5580 KB/second

I was astonished a snapshot made with KIS installed was actually created in less time than an ESS/NOD32 snapshot ... until I checked the size of the snapshot: 15.85 GB. I have no idea why a copy of the ESS snapshot made when ESS was the primary is 18.75 GB while a copy of the same snapshot made when KIS is the primary is only 15.85 GB. I would have thought a copy of a specific snapshot would never change its size so long as no files were added or removed from it. Perhaps Peter2150 will have a cogent explanation for this.

As confused as I am about this 2.9 GB discrepancy, I'm far more astounded that snapshots with KIS installed are now, for no obvious reason, suddenly being created as fast as snapshots made with other AVs installed. I don't know if my KIS/FD-ISR problem is now history or whether this is a temporary condition. I don't know whether the KIS program update is responsible or whether I have DVD+R, my favorite wizard, to thank for this sudden development. :)

[DVD+R]

I'm puzzled as to why you would want so many snapshots with different AV's and other ??? Considering the initial size of these snapshots lets take a look shall we :dry:

Eset snapshot = 18.75GB ( similar size to a Windows Vista Ultimate snapshot)

KIS snap = 18.91 ( :blink: ) <<< says enough I think :P

KIS snap (Eset copy) = 18.85GB
in total these equal 56.51GB, and you wonder why they take so long :lurking: Your making you PC push enough RAM to handle 56GB of files and programs, + I suspect you dont defrag each snap when you create it, causing a build up of fragmented files

looking at your transfer rates, it would appear your either on Pentium 4.. 3Ghz
or less. My transfer rates are 15000+ on AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core,and take about 20-25 mins for an 18GB snap, dont forget that Copying a snap does not include temp files like as what the Primary snap did, hence the lower size.

I'll just add that today, I killed off FD-ISR cause of its huge snaps, and Installed Rollback Rx Pro 8.1 (new version) My Drive is 298.1GB and after installing Vista Ultimate, and adding Office 2007 Enterprise, Works 9, Microsoft digital Image 2006 Suite, Microsoft Student with Encarta Premium 2007 , Roxio Media Creator 9 Premium Suite, Avira Premium Security. My Drive has 282GB free which means I only use 18GB for all thies together :dry:
Although I did clean out nearly 675MB of junk before I installed Rollback.

So looking at the facts and figures your setup uses 38.51GB more than mine :o I'll not be hurrying back to FD-ISR looking at this result :shifty:

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> I'm puzzled as to why you would want so many snapshots with different AV's and other ??? Considering the initial size of these snapshots lets take a look shall we :dry:

Eset snapshot = 18.75GB ( similar size to a Windows Vista Ultimate snapshot)

KIS snap = 18.91 ( :blink: ) <<< says enough I think :P

KIS snap (Eset copy) = 18.85GB
in total these equal 56.51GB, and you wonder why they take so long :lurking: Your making you PC push enough RAM to handle 56GB of files and programs, + I suspect you dont defrag each snap when you create it, causing a build up of fragmented files

looking at your transfer rates, it would appear your either on Pentium 4.. 3Ghz
or less. My transfer rates are 15000+ on AMD Athlon 64x2 Dual Core,and take about 20-25 mins for an 18GB snap, dont forget that Copying a snap does not include temp files like as what the Primary snap did, hence the lower size.

I'll just add that today, I killed off FD-ISR cause of its huge snaps, and Installed Rollback Rx Pro 8.1 (new version) My Drive is 298.1GB and after installing Vista Ultimate, and adding Office 2007 Enterprise, Works 9, Microsoft digital Image 2006 Suite, Microsoft Student with Encarta Premium 2007 , Roxio Media Creator 9 Premium Suite, Avira Premium Security. My Drive has 282GB free which means I only use 18GB for all thies together :dry:
Although I did clean out nearly 675MB of junk before I installed Rollback.

So looking at the facts and figures your setup uses 38.51GB more than mine :o I'll not be hurrying back to FD-ISR looking at this result :shifty: <-QUOTE}

1. The only reason I have more than one AV installed (in different snapshots) in my PC is, as I've explained previously, because FD-ISR snapshots were taking three times longer to copy/update with KIS v7 than they took with NOD32, the AV I used before installing KIS. Raxco/Leapfrog support wanted me to perform various tests which mandated making numerous snapshots with KIS and other AVs.

2. I normally only have one AV installed and use only two regular snapshots. I keep four archive snapshots; two stored on a second internal hard drive and two on an external hard drive. Since FD-ISR is designed for up to ten regular snapshots, I don't think two is an excessive number. I update the regular snapshots so one is reasonably current to my primary and the other is a couple days old. Despite having what you regard as "many" [i.e. two] snapshots, I currently have 233 GB of free space on my C drive.

3. I defrag my C drive frequently. There is so little fragmentation on my C drive that the most performance improvement any defrag has made to date is 1% (usually less).

4. A "Pentium 4.. 3Ghz or less"? :) My Vista PC is an HP Pavilion m8120n which comes standard with a 2.4 GHz Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 processor with 8 MB of shared L2 cache and 3 GB of RAM. The Vista System Performance Rating score for my PC's processor is 5.9 out of a possible 5.9. The RAM score is 5.2 out of a possible 5.9.

5. I understand temporary files aren't copied when FD-ISR snapshots are created. Since temp files are never copied, what difference in size should it make whether I copied my ESS snapshot to a new snapshot when the ESS snapshot was my primary or not? The sizes I listed were those of the finished snapshots, not the initial size including temp files. The second ESS copy I made was 15.85 GB, not 18.85 GB as you wrote. The point I was attempting to make is I can't fathom why both Eset snapshots weren't 18.75 GB since they should be identical copies of the same files.

6. The times you gave are similar to mine for creating archive snapshots stored on an internal drive, not my regular snapshots which take longer.

7. The space occupied by two FD-ISR snapshots stored on each of three 320 GB hard drives is inconsequential to me. ATI and Paragon backup images are significantly larger and I have space for two images from each program on each of my backup drives with plenty of space left over.

8. I genuinely wish you the best of luck with the latest version of Rollback Rx. I've read enough unfavorable reports concerning previous versions that I'm able to restrain my enthusiasm to try Rollback Rx any time soon. When it comes to backing up my system, I'm interested in as near perfect reliability I can find, not saving space.

9. BTW, I'm curious about your avatar. Is Manchester United the logo of a women's lingerie chain such as Victoria's Secret here in the USA or the sign of your favorite neighborhood pub? ;)

[Peter2150]

@DVD+R. Karen makes a good point. On space used Rollback is the clear winner. On reliablity, and durability, the verdict isn't in yet. I own and play with Rollback, but don't yet trust it.

@Karen Archive sizes don't change, but snapshot sizes should pretty much mirror the source unless something is anchored, or you have loads of tmp files, etc.

As an aside, hang in there with Raxco, and the timing. Remember in essense what they are doing in some cases is trying to duplicate what you see, and then pass the info over to Leapfrog.

I found a bug a while back that was a real puzzler. There was almost two months of test programs being sent to me, and log files sent back. Then a couple of test fixes until they finally did solve the problem. It does take time, but they do work it.

Secondly, those transfer rates are terrible. I just tested. If I go to create a new snapshot, I don't have one I can update, I see a transfer rate around 11000KB/sec. On my archives, which are on a 2nd internal drive, updating an archive which has been around a bit, I see an average of 7500KB/Sec. I then tried creating a new archive, and the transfer rate was 20000kb/sec

One thing you can do that can help you is make more use of archives. I only keep one working snapshot on my disk. The 2nd one is stripped to the bones, and is only a place to boot too, for restoring from archive to primary.
A big advantage is when you update, FDISR, doesn't seem to have to run thru both directories for the preparing to copy phase.

Pete

[Karen76]

{QUOTE-> snapshot sizes should pretty much mirror the source unless something is anchored, or you have loads of tmp files, etc. <-QUOTE}

The first and third snapshots I listed above were copies made from the same source. I don't use data anchoring and temp files aren't supposed to be copied by FD-ISR. I can't comprehend why both snapshots aren't an identical 18.75 GB in size. :(


{QUOTE-> hang in there with Raxco <-QUOTE}

I'm hanging. But if I have to jump through many more hoops for different software support types, I may need to get licensed as a domesticated animal. :)

One of my problems in getting SupportInfo files to Raxco is their size. After this latest series of snapshots, I had FD-ISR create a 1-day SupportInfo file. It was 405 MB zipped down to 28.5 MB. 8 MB is about the limit of file attachments I can successfully transmit via dial-up and that's a chore. For me to be able to send Raxco SupportInfo files of this test, I'd have to zero out FD-ISR's activitiy log, create a single snapshot, generate a SupportInfo file then repeat that process for each following snapshot. That would get real old quick. I e-mailed Raxco the transfer rates and related information. I hope that will suffice.


{QUOTE-> those transfer rates are terrible. <-QUOTE}

Swell. I feel much better now. Imagine what the transfer rates were when it was taking 3.5 hours to make snapshots with KIS installed.

Is there anything I can do to improve the transfer rates? My PC is supposed to have a blazing fast quad core processor. Is it a matter of Vista vs. XP? Or am I being punished for not being a "nice person?" [sniffle] :'(

I was thrilled to discover KIS snapshots were suddenly, mysteriously, no longer taking 3.5 hours to make. Now, I learn my transfer rates are still terrible. Curses! >:(


{QUOTE-> A big advantage is when you update, FDISR, doesn't seem to have to run thru both directories for the preparing to copy phase. <-QUOTE}

Updating snapshots is always much faster than creating new ones. I seem to recall reading somewhere on this forum that after snapshots reached a certain age they might become unreliable so it was better to create new snapshots from time to time rather than continually update them. Or is this, as fce would say, a "myth"?

[Peter2150]

ROFL.

Transfer rates, I've discovered are a function of processor, the bus, the disk drives, and whether the disks are internal and external. On my AMD machine which is an Athlon 64 FX62, gaming level rig, I have a 2nd internal and some wdc external drives. Not a slouch, but the transfer rates to the externals is noticably slower than to the internal.

On my Intel Machine which is a Core 2 Duo 2.93gz machine with a different mobo, same interal drive setup, just bigger drives, and a lacie external drive, on this machine the data rate to the external is the same as to the 2nd internal. Probably a combo of factors.

On the aging thing. For snapshots its "myth". The are just files on the disk like any other. Now archives are a different matter. They are like a database. If you create a new archive, and then add 1gb to the snapshot the new archive will be 1gb bigger. But if you subseqently delete that 1gb, and refresh the archive, it will not shrink, but have empty space in it. As time goes on FDISR is stuffing and fitting stuff in the archive. There is only one negative effect. If you watch, FDISR will copy the files, and then when it's finished it goes into the finalizing stage. Initially that will be only a few seconds, but as time goes on it grows and can become several minutes. The only negative, is the extra time. I've never had a problem with the archive. To clear this you just delete the archive and recreate it. On a seldom used archive I don't worry about it, but on my active primary, I recreate it about once a month.

Pete

[DVD+R]

{QUOTE-> BTW, I'm curious about your avatar. Is Manchester United the logo of a women's lingerie chain such as Victoria's Secret here in the USA or the sign of your favorite neighborhood pub? ;) <-QUOTE}


Do you live under a Rock ??? Surely you must know the greatest Soccer team in the History of Mankind 8) Womens lingerie Indeed 8) Do you want to be turned into a Tribble or a Gremlin :dry: or Maybe I'll turn you into a worm and dangle you in the Water to Catch Fish ;D :P

[DVD+R]

I decided to do some reorganizing with My PC, in the last month I must have reformatted a dozen times or more ::) So today I did the following:

1:Wiped My Drive thouroughly with WipeDrive (The Best there Is)
2:Installed Windows Xp Professional
3:Installed Raxco Perfect Disk 8 and thouroughtly Defragged
4:Installed FD-ISR and thouroughly defragged both snapshots
5:Installed Vista Business on Empty Snap and repeated the Above
6:Created Baseline Snap for Each OS, so I have Primary, Secondary & Baseline

with no extra Software installed XP = 1.15GB or 0%
and Vista Business = 10.21GB or 3% using 35GB Total use for All 6 Snaps, and it runs Smooth as Silk :dry: