Best program for testing software

[mike21]

Hi. I really enjoy testing software and therefore I reformat my 2 systems approx every 6 months. Now I am ready to format my work's PC.

Since I wont stop trialling new programs, I am interested about your opinions as to which program is better for testing software:

- an uninstaller (like advanced or total uninstaller)

- deepfreeze or shadowuser

- firstdefense

Thanks

[InfinityAz]

I've tried many of the programs you've listed but keep coming back to VMs. You may want to try either Microsoft's Virtual PC 2007 or Innotek's VirtualBox. Both are free and work well but VirtualBox allows you to run more OS's easily.

Since I started using VMs, I only reformat once every 12 months.

[WSFuser]

I use Total Uninstall but if you want to be certain that theres no trace of the software go for FD-ISR.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I use Total Uninstall but if you want to be certain that theres no trace of the software go for FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

Totally agree.

[mike21]

{QUOTE-> I use Total Uninstall but if you want to be certain that theres no trace of the software go for FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

{QUOTE-> Totally agree. <-QUOTE}

OK I am lurking the forums all day today for these kind of topics today and FD-ISR was the first choice, its time for me to test it on a clean PC.

I just downloaded ISRHelp21.pdf, such a large help file though...

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> OK I am lurking the forums all day today for these kind of topics today and FD-ISR was the first choice, its time for me to test it on a clean PC.

I just downloaded ISRHelp21.pdf, such a large help file though... <-QUOTE}

Worth a read. Also there is a lot of help to be had in the Leapfrog forum here at Wilder's

[mike21]

And just one last question, the differences between rollback and firstdefense?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> And just one last question, the differences between rollback and firstdefense? <-QUOTE}

HI MIke

That has been beaten to death. There is a recent post somewhere in the leapfrog forum. Do a forum search on Rollback, First Defense, or FDISR, and have a few long reads.

[ErikAlbert]

I use FDISR for testing softwares, the ultimate uninstaller.
Usually in my frozen snapshot, sometimes in a test snapshot.

If I don't have the time anymore to continue my tests, I store the situation in an archive and restore it back when I have the time, which can be a day later, a week, a month, ...

I also can test several combination of softwares in different snapshots.

I use FDISR also for other things, but these have nothing to do with testing softwares.

PS: If you want to test 30,000 upto 60,000 softwares simultaneously, RollbackRx might be a better choice. ;)

[nexstar]

{QUOTE-> And just one last question, the differences between rollback and firstdefense? <-QUOTE}
My post here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=183143)will give you some idea as to how bad things can get when software turns 'gangster' on you, but Rollback was able to sort it out just by rebooting the machine.

Bear with me here......

If your system drive were an artist's model cast in bronze, then you could think of FDISR as having up to 10 copies of that bronze with the model in different poses. With Rollback, there would still be just the one bronze but you could take almost as many photos of the bronze as you like in its various forms and your system would look like the photos rather than the original bronze.

This is how Rollback can have up to 60,000 snapshots (photos) as they take up minimal space. Nobody in their right mind of course would consider taking 60,000 snapshots, I find 20 to 30 more than enough, but I guess it's like having a 200mph supercar when you don't actually drive at 200mph, mostly :).

It's probably best just to try the various options and see which fits in best with the way you like to work.

Graham

[farmerlee]

I use virtual machines, first defence isr and powershadow to test software. FD-ISR is great if you have the cash. If you want something free and have sufficient resources then a virtual machine is definitely a good, safe way to go. If resources are scarce then something like returnil or powershadow will work well, this is also free.

[N1ckR]

We use virtualisation at work for testing (web sites), great being able to fire up a vanilla XP VM or the network standard win2k image.
What I do like is that fact I can use my dev machine to debug and fix things, in a similar vein, if your testing security software, you know you can use your host machine as normal and not have to worry about completing your testing before you go about your normal daily business.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I use virtual machines, first defence isr and powershadow to test software. FD-ISR is great if you have the cash. If you want something free and have sufficient resources then a virtual machine is definitely a good, safe way to go. If resources are scarce then something like returnil or powershadow will work well, this is also free. <-QUOTE}

Some restrictions with PS and Returnil are, can't install some app. if required a reboot.Hope some day will be fixed.

[mike21]

Thanks, really appreciate all replies.

@Peter2150, I didn't expect you to list me all differences, so let me rephrase the question:
If I the main use of the program would be for clean uninstalls of trialling software this should be FirstDefense or RollBack?

[silver0066]

{QUOTE-> Thanks, really appreciate all replies.

@Peter2150, I didn't expect you to list me all differences, so let me rephrase the question:
If I the main use of the program would be for clean uninstalls of trialling software this should be FirstDefense or RollBack? <-QUOTE}Try using them both together. They compliment each other and each has it's attributes.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Thanks, really appreciate all replies.

@Peter2150, I didn't expect you to list me all differences, so let me rephrase the question:
If I the main use of the program would be for clean uninstalls of trialling software this should be FirstDefense or RollBack? <-QUOTE}
They both restore your computer faster than Image Backup softwares = Immediate System Recovery and do a much better job than Windows System Restore, which is useless, when you can't boot in Windows anymore (Doing better than M$ is quite easy for other companies.)
They both use multiple snapshots, but the way it is done is very different.
All the rest is very different and the only way to find out, is trial both.
FDISR and RBRx are NOT a replacement for Image Backup, so you still need Image Backup.
Image Backup is a MUST, FDISR and RBRx is LUXURY, you don't really need it, but it's very easy to have, like any luxury.
And for the n'th time : all these softwares are NOT security softwares, they are recovery softwares. :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Thanks, really appreciate all replies.

@Peter2150, I didn't expect you to list me all differences, so let me rephrase the question:
If I the main use of the program would be for clean uninstalls of trialling software this should be FirstDefense or RollBack? <-QUOTE}

Sorry Mike

I would say this, and this is my experience. Also I own both programs. I would rate First Defense more reliable, and Rollback faster. I have never had FDISR let me down, in fact I've done some amazing stuff with it. On the other hand Rollback has let me down and once again I've taken it off my system.

Taken to the extreme, I had a Vista image on my system, and I converted it back to my original XP configuration using a FDISR archive restore, as opposed to restoring an image. That's the ultimate clean uninstall.

Pete

[Gerard Morentzy]

Okay, so I finally decide to give FDISR a try and I go to the Raxco site. There is nothing about First Defense on their "Products" or "Buy Now" page. I found a direct link inside the Raxco site from Google, but from the Raxco Home Page there is no mention of FDISR. Did they sell the program? Does anybody know what's up?
ON EDIT: I found that Raxco is no longer distributing the program. You'll find it at:
http://www.firstdefense-isr.com/ distributed by Horizon DataSys.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Okay, so I finally decide to give FDISR a try and I go to the Raxco site. There is nothing about First Defense on their "Products" or "Buy Now" page. I found a direct link inside the Raxco site from Google, but from the Raxco Home Page there is no mention of FDISR. Did they sell the program? Does anybody know what's up?
ON EDIT: I found that Raxco is no longer distributing the program. You'll find it at:
http://www.firstdefense-isr.com/ distributed by Horizon DataSys. <-QUOTE}
Raxco isn't a reseller of FDISR anymore. Horizon DataSys is the one you need and approved by Leapfrog, the original developer of FDISR.
http://www.horizondatasys.com/

[Gerard Morentzy]

{QUOTE-> Raxco isn't a reseller of FDISR anymore. Horizon DataSys is the one you need and approved my Leapfrog. <-QUOTE}

Yes, that's what I figured out. I also didn't know Leapfrog, the developers of the program, have a forum here at Wilders! I normally only frequent 3 or 4 forums and didn't know about it. I have learned something today!!

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Yes, that's what I figured out. I also didn't know Leapfrog, the developers of the program, have a forum here at Wilders! I normally only frequent 3 or 4 forums and didn't know about it. I have learned something today!! <-QUOTE}
FDISR is also sold under the name "BootBack" and "Peer-ISR", but Horizon DataSys still uses the name "FirstDefense-ISR".
All these products are the SAME, just another logo.

[farmerlee]

{QUOTE-> Some restrictions with PS and Returnil are, can't install some app. if required a reboot.Hope some day will be fixed. <-QUOTE}
If a reboot is required with the test software then windows steadystate is an alternative freebie.

[mike21]

{QUOTE-> Sorry Mike

I would say this, and this is my experience. Also I own both programs. I would rate First Defense more reliable, and Rollback faster. I have never had FDISR let me down, in fact I've done some amazing stuff with it. On the other hand Rollback has let me down and once again I've taken it off my system.

Taken to the extreme, I had a Vista image on my system, and I converted it back to my original XP configuration using a FDISR archive restore, as opposed to restoring an image. That's the ultimate clean uninstall.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Sorry for what? You have been more than helpful, thank you vm.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> If a reboot is required with the test software then windows steadystate is an alternative freebie. <-QUOTE}

Just read into that at MS.Nothing new,at reboot all changes are lost !

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Sorry for what? You have been more than helpful, thank you vm. <-QUOTE}

Good. I thought I'd missed the mark.

[mike21]

OK I printed and read the pdf help file of fd-isr and I have a newb question that I couldn't clarify:

When I use data anchoring and three snapshots, the files that I keep adding to the anchored folders (like my documents) are discarded or the folders are updated normally?

Also in RollBack can I exclude some folders from my local disks?

[Chuck57]

{QUOTE-> I've tried many of the programs you've listed but keep coming back to VMs. You may want to try either Microsoft's Virtual PC 2007 or Innotek's VirtualBox. Both are free and work well but VirtualBox allows you to run more OS's easily.

Since I started using VMs, I only reformat once every 12 months. <-QUOTE}

MS Virtual PC won't run some brands of Linux on my machine, PCLinuxOS being one of them, and my favorite. Virtualbox, on my computer, handles them all but the Linux versions take up more screen than is offered, meaning switching in and out of VB to scroll up or down.

I can't get VMWare free server edition to read any of my Linux ISO's. I know it's some very simple thing I'm probably missing or not doing, but can't find what it is.

Until I can give Vmware a try, VirtualBox is my favorite, even with the aggravation of swapping the mouse in and out of virtual.

[WSFuser]

{QUOTE-> When I use data anchoring and three snapshots, the files that I keep adding to the anchored folders (like my documents) are discarded or the folders are updated normally? <-QUOTE}
iirc When you anchor data, it will be available for all your snapshots and it not be discarded (frozen snapshots).

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> OK I printed and read the pdf help file of fd-isr and I have a newb question that I couldn't clarify:

When I use data anchoring and three snapshots, the files that I keep adding to the anchored folders (like my documents) are discarded or the folders are updated normally?

Also in RollBack can I exclude some folders from my local disks? <-QUOTE}
Anchored folders don't belong to FDISR anymore and they are not included in the snapshots or archives anymore.
In most cases users anchor the folder "My Documents" because that folder contains all personal data and you have access to your personal data in all your snapshots and your personal files will be updated as normal.

Your personal data will also be updated in case you work with a frozen snapshot. It's not that difficult.
A frozen snapshot isn't really frozen, you can update a frozen snapshot at any time, it only requires a re-freeze after updating.

[Seer]

Hi :)

For testing security software, I always use a Virtual Machine, as it is it's primary purpose - testing software. I use FDISR only for testing graphics-demanding apps (I just tried the new version of GoogleEarth in it) because of the video RAM limitations in VMs. I recently tested some Kaspersky-clone AV in FDISR (3.20.202), and it destroyed it - I couldn't switch snapshots from Windows anymore, only from bre-boot >:( Had to restore my backup, and this is not something I frequently do or like >:( I have learned my lesson - FDISR for immediate restore, VM for testing software...

Cheers.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> I recently tested some Kaspersky-clone AV in FDISR (3.20.202), and it destroyed it - I couldn't switch snapshots from Windows anymore, only from bre-boot <-QUOTE}
Yup, when Raxco sold FD they had an item in their knowledgebase about avoiding some versions of KAV, one of the few programs not compatible with FD.

Acadia

[Seer]

Hi Acadia :)

{QUOTE-> avoiding some versions of KAV <-QUOTE}

I knew that before I tried the clone, but I thought that it would not happen at that very moment and with that version of clone. It was some chinese AV I installed for that "AV screenshots (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=179976)" sticky, I was so stupid for not installing it in a VM, as I always do. The fix was quick, but I always get aggravated when I have to use backup. I have not done that... well, for a very long time.

I just thought it would be good to mention my mishappen so the OP could keep that in mind when using FDISR for testing... The software is not bulletproof, but then again none is.

Regards

[InfinityAz]

If you are using VMs, Dan's Archive (http://blogs.ipona.com/dan/archive/2007/08/22/8419.aspx) has a pretty good article on maximizing your VM (smaller, faster, etc.).