Need advise re: my personal FDISR set-up

[fce]

Hi guys, i'm excited using FDISR in my new laptop (hopefully i will receive tomorrow) specially after reading Erik and other poster here at FDISR forum. Below is my plan cleaning/before installing FDISR/creating snapshot. Hope you can give me some advise if I'm wrong or need more improvements.

1. Uninstall bloatware (~5program)
2. Install CCLEANER (to clean registry after uninstalling bloatware)
3. Uninstall CCLEANER after cleaning registry (since its not advisable to clean registry when FDISR is installed)
4. Turn off system restore (save more HDD space, since FDISR will do the work)
5. Install FDISR

After installing FDISR, I'll create below snapshot.....

Snapshot-1 (Clean install Rollback booting): without the bloatware and clean registry.

Snapshot-2 (Work): Normal software/File/AV i used excluding gaming software

Snapshot-3 (Games): Anti Virus + Approved Games + New Games (Test)

Snapshot-4 (Games Archive): AV+Approved Games.

Snapshot-5 (Work Archive): Rollback of Snapshot 2


Btw my PC specs: Asus G1S A1 with 250GB (i think with C & D internal drive), 3GB Ram. Security software (my plan) is KAV7+Vista Firewall+Router Firewall.

Thanks in advance for your advise. :)

Update: Snapshot 4 & 5 change to Archive.

[lucas1985]

You could replace snapshots #4 and #5 with archives. So you will only need 3 snapshots.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> You could replace snapshots #4 and #5 with archives. So you will only need 3 snapshots. <-QUOTE}

what's the advantage of using archives? sorry still no time browsing this forum re: using FDISR archives step-by-step. Appreciate if you can teach me how to do it.

[lucas1985]

I'm not a FD-ISR user (not yet ;D) but here is my advice:
You can export snapshots to archives in another partition/hard disk. The difference between an archive and a snapshot is that you can't boot to archives. In your case:
- Snapshot #1: Rollback snapshot (Clean install Rollback as you called it): this is the always-booting snapshot. From here you can fix issues in all snapshots if they become unbootable.
- Snapshot #2: Work snapshot. When you finish building it, export it to an archive called Work archive.
- Snapshot #3: Gaming snapshot: When you finish building it, export it to an archive called Gaming archive.
Suppose that you install a game and later you decide to delete it. You boot to Snapshot #1 and do a copy/update from Gaming archive (source) to Gaming snapshot (destine). The game is gone.
Suppose that a Microsoft patch screws your Work snapshot. You boot to Snapshot #1 and do a copy/update from Work archive (source) to Work snapshot (destine). Problem solved.
Wait for Erik, Peter and other advanced FD-ISR users :)

[Peter2150]

The way I'd do what you are trying to do is this.


Install FDISR while system is pristine and clean. This will be your primary snapshot.

Then immmediately make two copies. A secondary(rollback) and a third games.

Then make archives(off disk) of all three.

Use the primary for your working stuff, and keep the archive current. Then if you don't like something you've installed you can restore from the archive of the primary. This allows you to work, but you can try stuff here, and easily undo it.

Leave your secondary alone. Install your games in the third(games) snapshot. Keep the archive of games current. Want to try a new game. Update the archive and install the new game. Don't like it restore from the games archive to the games snapshot.

You will boot to the secondary(rollback) anytime you want to restore from either archive to snapshot. Also anytime you want to wipe either the primary or games and start over you can do this from the secondary(rollback)


One last strong word of advice. When ever you do a copy/update. Select the source, and then the target. The next screen allows you to check your choice before continuing. Make it a habit of sitting back hands off the mouse or keyboard and really check what you've selected. Then when satisfied let her rip. This can save you from making a big mistake.


Pete

[ErikAlbert]

fce,
First you have to do this one time :
1. Open FDISR.
2. Click on Tools.
3. Click on Options.
4. Click on tab "Archives"
5. Mark "Specify alternate archive location"
6. With the button "Change" you can browse to a location, where your archives need to be stored."
7. Click OK.
After this, FDISR knows where your archives will be stored and you can see these archives on the main screen of FDISR under "Archived Snapshots".
Each created archive by you, will be visible and preceeded by a camera-icon.

Creating an archive is a simple copy/update.
Copy/update from snapshot to <new archive>
and you can do this for each existing snapshot. :)

I have two snapshots and two archives with these names :
1. "WS1 Off-line" ---> "AS1 Off-line"
2. "WS2 On-line" ---> "AS2 On-line"

WS = Work Snapshot
AS = Archive Snapshot
and I like to number my snapshots and archives.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Use the primary for your working stuff, and keep the archive current. Then if you don't like something you've installed you can restore from the archive of the primary. This allows you to work, but you can try stuff here, and easily undo it. <-QUOTE}

If I want to restore my Primary Snapshot I have two option to restore it, by using Secondary snapshot (required booting) and using Primary Archives? Is that correct?



{QUOTE-> Leave your secondary alone. Install your games in the third(games) snapshot. Keep the archive of games current. Want to try a new game. Update the archive and install the new game. Don't like it restore from the games archive to the games snapshot. <-QUOTE}

If I want a secondary snapshot for my games (same as my plan in my first post), what’s the problem or advantage compare to games archive as you propose?



{QUOTE-> One last strong word of advice. When ever you do a copy/update. Select the source, and then the target. The next screen allows you to check your choice before continuing. <-QUOTE}

Ok I try FDISR in my ooollllddd laptop but since my HD is limited I just check its tab and some feature WITHOUT running copy/update.

When I do or click copy/update it shows me Source snapshot box and the I can select either Primary (with green arrow) and Secondary snapshot (with question mark arrow)…..i guess source you referring is the Primary snapshot (with the green arrow)?...then the next page it give me Destination Snapshot and only Secondary snapshot is there which represent that target.

If I want to copy my Rollback snapshot to Primary Snapshot (with problems)….Rollback snapshot is my Source and Primary Snapshot is my Target (to be erase). Is that correct?

[fce]

{QUOTE-> 5. Mark "Specify alternate archive location" <-QUOTE}

I’m not sure if I can select my “D” internal HD in my new laptop(I’ll check it tomorrow when I receive my laptop) but when I try to select “C” internal HD it wont allow me to select “C” hard disk. Thus it means that I can select only external HD (and D internal hard disk)?

Also is it advisable to buy external hard disk for my archives? Any suggestion what is the most handy external hard disk?

In other thread, I don’t understand why you suggest the need of program same as Acronis True Image (or equal) to combine with FDISR? I don’t think its necessary, IMO. Can you share your experience why is it needed?

How about my personal file (as in big files of picture, videos, etc.)....is it advisable to use FDISR or just save it to DVD and EXCLUDE my personal file during copy/update?....or leave it in my internal "D" hard disk and exclude it during copy/update? Please give me some advise so that i can save a lot of space for my big files.

Last but not the list, when my program is corrupted I can use FDISR efficiently. But if my PC is hacked….can FDISR help me with that problem?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> If I want to restore my Primary Snapshot I have two option to restore it, by using Secondary snapshot (required booting) and using Primary Archives? Is that correct? <-QUOTE}

Yes that is correct. But if your Primary would be your working snapshot, and might have lots of stuff in it. So would your Primary Archive. Whereas the Secondary snapshot, would be your clean one, that you want to keep clean.




{QUOTE->
If I want a secondary snapshot for my games (same as my plan in my first post), what’s the problem or advantage compare to games archive as you propose? <-QUOTE}

Actually I was suggesting both a snapshot and archive. That way you only need one snapshot for games. When you want to try a new one, you first update the archive from the snapshot. Then install new game. If you like it and want to keep it great. If not, you boot to secondary and restore archive games to snapshot games. Poof, new game is gone.


{QUOTE->
Ok I try FDISR in my ooollllddd laptop but since my HD is limited I just check its tab and some feature WITHOUT running copy/update.

When I do or click copy/update it shows me Source snapshot box and the I can select either Primary (with green arrow) and Secondary snapshot (with question mark arrow)…..i guess source you referring is the Primary snapshot (with the green arrow)?...then the next page it give me Destination Snapshot and only Secondary snapshot is there which represent that target.

If I want to copy my Rollback snapshot to Primary Snapshot (with problems)….Rollback snapshot is my Source and Primary Snapshot is my Target (to be erase). Is that correct? <-QUOTE}

Yes. Except target isn't really erased. It is made identical to source.


Re the second post.

Your new machine might have two user partitions, or it might have one, and the second one is the "hidden" partition manufactures use for their recovery stuff. You will have to wait and see.

Why A disk imaging program. Well lets assume you have a total disk failure. Can FDISr help you there. Yes if you are prepared. You have to have a way to get XP or Vista back on the disk so you can boot. Then you can install FDISR, and restore from those archives, assuming they aren't on the same disk in another partition. The advantage of imaging is speed.

Should you get another external drive. My unqualified answer is yes. I have had good luck with Western Digital and Lacie. The lacie seem faster.

Hope all this helps

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

fce,
ISR = Immediate System Recovery, not Immediate Data Recovery.

SYSTEM = Windows + Applications

FDISR is created to protect your SYSTEM in the first place, not your DATA.

In Windows there is only ONE place to store DATA and that is the folder "My Documents" and that folder has subfolders to separate different files from one another, like My PDF-files, My Spreadsheets, My Music, My Pictures, My Videos, etc. etc. etc.

Your SYSTEM grows only, when you install new applications, including games.
Your DATA grows every day and is often much larger, than your SYSTEM.

After installing FDISR, you have to anchor "My Documents", otherwise your DATA is included in EACH snapshot. That is a big waste of space.
Once you anchor "My Documents", each snapshot will contain only SYSTEM-objects. and no data.

The best way to protect snapshots are archives, which have to be stored on another harddisk.
You can't store them on the same harddisk, because when your harddisk crashes, your archives are also GONE.
I suppose that your [D:] is not a second harddisk, but some kind of recovery partition.
So you have only one harddisk [C:] = 250gb.
Very important : ask for a Windows Installation CD, not just a recovery cd.

You need an external harddisk to store archives and you also will need the same external harddisk for storing IMAGES, created by your Image Backup Software.
So you better buy an external harddisk of 500gb, because you have only one internal harddisk.
Don't buy your external harddisk too small, because it's better to have some elbowroom.

Regarding creating snapshots and archives.
Each snapshot has Windows.
After removing the bloatware, you install Windows + FDISR.
FDISR will create the Primary Snapshot and you create the Secondary Snapshot.If I was you I would create an archive of the Primary Snapshot, because it is interesting to have an archive of Windows only, in order to create new snapshots for a different purpose.
This is not your real primary archive, but an archive you keep aside, in case you need it. Call it WinVISTA.
If you archive WinVISTA make sure it is ACTIVATED, because M$ is counting your activations and there is a LIMIT.

You install all the softwares you need in the primary snapshot. Once everything is installed you create an archive of the primary.

You install all the games you need in the secondary snapshot. Once everything is installed you create an archive of the secondary.

If you need a third snapshot, copy/update from archive WinVISTA to <new snapshot>
Install the software you need and create an archive of the third snapshot.

Etc. etc. etc. until you have all the snapshots you need.

As Peter already explained, you don't really need an extra snapshot to TEST games, you can remove the game, the way Peter explained.

Regarding graphical files, like photos, video.
I don't have experience with photos, but I have alot of video.
I decided to store all my movies on DVD, because that is a solution forever, because you can buy as many DVD's you want.
If you store them on your harddisk, one day your harddisk will be full and then what ?

I hope this helps too. ;D

[ErikAlbert]

fce,
I hope you understand all this, if you don't I recommend you to start with the classic setup : one work and one rollback snapshot, just like everybody did.
It takes some time to learn FDISR and all its possibilities and how to use it right and efficient according your personal needs. :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE->

After installing FDISR, you have to anchor "My Documents", otherwise your DATA is included in EACH snapshot. That is a big waste of space.
Once you anchor "My Documents", each snapshot will contain only SYSTEM-objects. and no data.

<-QUOTE}

For the sake of not confusing new users. You don't have to anchor My Documents. You may chose too. Depending on ones data, disk size, and usage requirements you might or might not want to anchor anything.

I just don't want someone to think they "have" to.

Pete

PS. I don't want this to sound critical. Eriks advice in this forum is way above 1st rate.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> fce,
I hope you understand all this, if you don't I recommend you to start with the classic setup : one work and one rollback snapshot, just like everybody did.
It takes some time to learn FDISR and all its possibilities and how to use it right and efficient according your personal needs. :) <-QUOTE}


I understand Erik. You're good teacher, same with Pete ;)
I'll create Primary, Secondary (Bootable) and Games....after that I'll create archives for this 3 and temporary save it to my "C" harddisk (since I dont have yet external harddisk).

Pete, I will do anchoring of "My Documents" when i use FDISR, it will save me a lot of space. Don't worry if i have some problem I will post my problem here :)

Thanks guys.

[fce]

Pete/Erik, how you set-up your FDISR scheduler? Care to share your scheduling, I might get an idea also ;)

Btw, i will install NOD32 with Vista Firewall ON together with my (Netgear) Firewall Router. I hope FDISR together with that security combo will not slowing my system. :-\

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Pete/Erik, how you set-up your FDISR scheduler? Care to share your scheduling, I might get an idea also ;)

Btw, i will install NOD32 with Vista Firewall ON together with my (Netgear) Firewall Router. I hope FDISR together with that security combo will not slowing my system. :-\ <-QUOTE}

I don't use the scheduler. I update everything manually.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Pete/Erik, how you set-up your FDISR scheduler? Care to share your scheduling, I might get an idea also ;)

Btw, i will install NOD32 with Vista Firewall ON together with my (Netgear) Firewall Router. I hope FDISR together with that security combo will not slowing my system. :-\ <-QUOTE}
I don't use schedules either, because there are only time-schedules, I need schedules on demand, started by myself, not on a specific hour.
IMO schedules are the worst part of FDISR and that's why nobody uses them.
Schedules are never a subject here, except new users mention them sometimes.

[fce]

guys just ordered 250gb external hard drive (erik, 500gb is too expensive)...i guess I'm ready for FDISR :)

hmmm...no comment re: my security combo. i guess you guys never use NOD32? what's your security software to protect your apps (specially FDISR)?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE->
Schedules are never a subject here, except new users mention them sometimes. <-QUOTE}

ROFL. You most eloquently stabbed that subject straight thru the heart.;D

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> guys just ordered 250gb external hard drive (erik, 500gb is too expensive)...i guess I'm ready for FDISR :)

hmmm...no comment re: my security combo. i guess you guys never use NOD32? what's your security software to protect your apps (specially FDISR)? <-QUOTE}
I used NOD32 and KAV6 without problems, but I don't know if they cause problems during copy/update, because :
1. I don't create much snapshots.
2. I usually copy/update in my off-line snapshot, which has no security softwares.

[fce]

{QUOTE->
2. I usually copy/update in my off-line snapshot, which has no security softwares. <-QUOTE}


what do you mean by off-line snapshot? just plain bootable system with FDISR....no apps or AV?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> what do you mean by off-line snapshot? just plain bootable system with FDISR....no apps or AV? <-QUOTE}
In Windows you can disable your internet connection and that's what I did in my off-line snapshot.
1. Click on Start-button
2. Click on Control Panel
3. Click on Network Connections
And then you get a screen where you can disable your internet connection.

I like to work in a QUIET environment and I was sick and tired of getting disturbed by updating messages, security messages, etc. I need my CONCENTRATION to do my job.
I use that off-line snapshot for many jobs.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> In Windows you can disable your internet connection and that's what I did in my off-line snapshot.
1. Click on Start-button
2. Click on Control Panel
3. Click on Network Connections
And then you get a screen where you can disable your internet connection.

I like to work in a QUIET environment and I was sick and tired of getting disturbed by updating messages, security messages, etc. I need my CONCENTRATION to do my job.
I use that off-line snapshot for many jobs. <-QUOTE}

Personally its no hindrance to get awaked by messages,i used to have a nap after many hours of labor so i get up my toes once again,but serious my way of working demand to stay online.

[fce]

houston i have a problem ;D

can't make secondary snapshot? see pics

Faulting application ISRCopy.exe version 3.20.0.202, time stamp 0x466ac73b, faulting module ntdll.dll version 6.0.6000.16........

[Horus37]

Turn off all security software before making a snapshot. Also is that "ASUS data security" desktop icon indicate you have some sort of data encryption going on?

Plus my version 3.2 202 GUI doesn't look like yours does. I'm assuming it's because yours is a trial copy? My copy is not an updated copy from a previous version but an actual full install of the full product with a different face. Your's looks like it's got different graphics. Perhaps it's because it comes from a different vendor. I bought mine from Raxco.

[kennyboy]

{QUOTE->
hmmm...no comment re: my security combo. i guess you guys never use NOD32? what's your security software to protect your apps (specially FDISR)? <-QUOTE}

I run Nod32 and many other security softwares, and apart from Comodo Firewall needing a slight setting alteration, have never had any problems with Copy/Updates, or creating snapshots.
It might not be the most advisable way to do it, but I never disable anything when using FDISR. Its THAT good...:)

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Turn off all security software before making a snapshot. Also is that "ASUS data security" desktop icon indicate you have some sort of data encryption going on?

Plus my version 3.2 202 GUI doesn't look like yours does. I'm assuming it's because yours is a trial copy? My copy is not an updated copy from a previous version but an actual full install of the full product with a different face. Your's looks like it's got different graphics. Perhaps it's because it comes from a different vendor. I bought mine from Raxco. <-QUOTE}

i disable NOD32, same result.

anymore guys how can i solve that problem?

from FDISR event log...
8/22/2007 00:35 0010 FirstDefense-ISR Service [Server Version 3.20.202] started
8/22/2007 00:35 0084 Pre-boot Check ... OK
8/22/2007 00:36 5060 Anchored files set to: C:\Users\FCE\Documents
8/22/2007 00:37 4510 Snapshot "Rollback Snapshot" created
8/22/2007 00:37 1000 CMD> COPY "Primary Snapshot" "Rollback Snapshot" EXCLUDE *.tmp
8/22/2007 00:37 1032 Copying snapshot "Primary Snapshot" to "Rollback Snapshot"
8/22/2007 00:39 1117 The Copy Engine unexpectedly terminated.

Windows report....
Problem signature
Problem Event Name: APPCRASH
Application Name: ISRCopy.exe
Application Version: 3.20.0.202
Application Timestamp: 466ac73b
Fault Module Name: ntdll.dll
Fault Module Version: 6.0.6000.16386
Fault Module Timestamp: 4549bdc9
Exception Code: c00000fd
Exception Offset: 000447f2
OS Version: 6.0.6000.2.0.0.768.3
Locale ID: 1033
Additional Information 1: 0260
Additional Information 2: e040a14504aad5908d368c25bf412c0d
Additional Information 3: 1766
Additional Information 4: b6ed57e43657e34e29f3fc89046cf260

Files that help describe the problem

[Horus37]

Tell us what software you do have running besides just windows and FDISR? Make sure you are disconnected from the internet while making a snapshot. Also don't have encrypted data. Tell us what folders you have anchored? Also if you are doing this on vista you might want to check out your UAC settings.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Tell us what software you do have running besides just windows and FDISR? Make sure you are disconnected from the internet while making a snapshot. Also don't have encrypted data. Tell us what folders you have anchored? <-QUOTE}

i didn't know that FDISR is very sensitive program :)

i just uninstall all the bloatware. When i got that error message i don't have security software installed except windows firewall.

with that event log i posted, can we find who's the culprit?

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I run Nod32 and many other security softwares, and apart from Comodo Firewall needing a slight setting alteration, have never had any problems with Copy/Updates, or creating snapshots.
It might not be the most advisable way to do it, but I never disable anything when using FDISR. Its THAT good...:) <-QUOTE}


I disable all my AV security software and I also shut down my comodo firewall "protect registry settings" and that is all I do and it gives me perfect snapshots.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> i didn't know that FDISR is very sensitive program :)

i just uninstall all the bloatware. When i got that error message i don't have security software installed except windows firewall.

with that event log i posted, can we find who's the culprit? <-QUOTE}


I'd wait till peter looked at it but the software support people from your vendor will know exactly what it is.

With installing and then uninstalling all that bloatware you might have caused yourself problems unrelated to FDISR.

FDISR needs a quiet environment to make a snapshot -Don't work on something on your computer or have a misc. program running that shouldn't be while making a snapshot. But since your error is immediate from the start it's probably something obvious and simple however I'm hoping it's not because you uninstalled something that messed up your computer.


So you only have NOD 32 and FDISR and windows? I see more program icons on your desktop besides nod32. Do you have encrypted files?


Are you doing this on xp or vista? You can also look at your windows log files for errors outside of FDISR log files. Since you uninstalled so many programs you might want to see what the log files say under "administrative tools" in windows just so you don't start pulling your hair out. Just know that they have a few versions of the copy engine you can try out just in case. I'd wait till tech support looks at it.

[fce]

yes only that security software. I disable win defender.

i didn't use yet asus data security manager and i dont know how to disable it aside from uninstalling the program.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> yes only that security software. I disable win defender.

i didn't use yet asus data security manager and i dont know how to disable it aside from uninstalling the program. <-QUOTE}


It might be harder to pinpoint if you used ccleaner and cleaned up everything it said to clean up. I use ccleaner and don't follow it's suggested things to uninstall. I choose what I have ccleaner delete very carefully. Did you do any backups with ccleaner while deleting stuff with ccleaner? I know it gives the option to backup stuff before you go deleting things so.

However, since you computer seems new and you haven't used data sec manager yet then you probably don't have any data encrypted yet so that might not be what is doing it. I'd look for errors in your windows log file and also find out what software is running in the background that could be interfereing with FDISR. So far you added win defender and nod 32. Could there be more that you aren't aware of?

Look in the lower right coner of your screen and see what small software icons are running in the taskbar and maybe one of them is the culprit.

Tech suport will be interested in what you deleted and how you deleted it. Maybe you deleted a needed .dll file. Who knows but I'd wait till tech support is up tomorrow morning and send them an email and see what they say based on your log files both windows and fdisr.

One last thing I had to do was to lengthen the time I set for the screen saver and standby / hybernate to activate. I set my screen saver to 30 minutes. It usually takes about 7-12 minutes to make a snapshot.

[fce]

when i run CCLEANER, FDISR is not yet installed. i didn't save registry from CCleaner.

also i remove Norton using uninstaller and removal software kit from Norton.

[ErikAlbert]

fce,
I can't help you there, I know FDISR pretty good, but I can't fix technical problems. Maybe Peter knows, but I would certainly contact the support service.

The laptop was probably pre-installed with all kind of garbage.
1. I would have zeroed my harddisk first to get rid of EVERYTHING, including the recovery partition [D:]. CCleaner and uninstalling Norton doesn't give you a guarantee that everything is gone. Only a zero tool like DBAN wipes everything.
You don't need the laptop recovery cd/partition either, because your backup solution will do a much better job.
2. Then install winVISTA and FDISR. I hope you have a "WinVISTA Installation CD" and then you have a properly installed laptop.
3. Then create the secondary snapshot, to test the copy/update function.
4. Then install non-security softwares and test the copy/update function again
5. Then install security softwares one by one and test the copy/update function again, because I would like to know which security softwares cause copy/update errors.
In other words you have to work systematically to nail possible problems.

Normally winVISTA shouldn't be a problem, but you never know for sure with a new OS.
Years ago, I was an early user of Win2000pro and I had nothing but problems with softwares.

[Peter2150]

I used to disable any scanning software as it will try and scan every file FDISR copies. SLowdown problem. No longer an issue, as those programs are gone.

I would try an uninstall and then reinstall. If the error continues, then it may be a vista type problem that we XP folks don't see. That would be a support issue.

Pete

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> fce,
I can't help you there, I know FDISR pretty good, but I can't fix technical problems. Maybe Peter knows, but I would certainly contact the support service.

The laptop was probably pre-installed with all kind of garbage.
1. I would have zeroed my harddisk first to get rid of EVERYTHING, including the recovery partition [D:]. CCleaner and uninstalling Norton doesn't give you a guarantee that everything is gone. Only a zero tool like DBAN wipes everything.
You don't need the laptop recovery cd/partition either, because your backup solution will do a much better job.
2. Then install winVISTA and FDISR. I hope you have a "WinVISTA Installation CD" and then you have a properly installed laptop.
3. Then create the secondary snapshot, to test the copy/update function.
4. Then install non-security softwares and test the copy/update function again
5. Then install security softwares one by one and test the copy/update function again, because I would like to know which security softwares cause copy/update errors.
In other words you have to work systematically to nail possible problems.

Normally winVISTA shouldn't be a problem, but you never know for sure with a new OS.
Years ago, I was an early user of Win2000pro and I had nothing but problems with softwares. <-QUOTE}

Hi Erik

You have to be careful with some lap tops about doing a wipe. I was going to do that with my new tablet Thinkpad, but then thought better of it. I did remove the "yellow brand" av, but a lot of the software they put on it, relates to the tablet, and new security chips, and I just decided maybe that wasn't so smart. Just be careful. Image first.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Erik

You have to be careful with some lap tops about doing a wipe. I was going to do that with my new tablet Thinkpad, but then thought better of it. I did remove the "yellow brand" av, but a lot of the software they put on it, relates to the tablet, and new security chips, and I just decided maybe that wasn't so smart. Just be careful. Image first.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Oh, I thought that all that typical laptop stuff was included in winVISTA or any other Windows. Well, I have no experience with laptops, so I guess you are probably right about this. I would probably ask the vendor, if I can do this or not.

[fce]

alright guys, i do clean install WITHOUT anybloatware and anti virus.

same error.

First Defense ISR Copy Engine / VSS has stopped working


any idea? i think its not problem with my laptop maybe its the setting of FDISR need to change.....it's already clean install as in no software installed except OS.

[stapp]

Perhaps Peter or Erik may suggest you give it a try using rss instead of vss.

Hopefully one of them will be along soon:)

[ErikAlbert]

fce,
You can try VSS or RSS and see if there is an improvement.

Click on Start / Run

1. CMD + Enter (opens the DOS window)
2. CD C:\$ISR\$APP\Setup + Enter
3. ISRSetup –install –rss (or –vss) + Enter
4. Close the DOS window
5. re-boot

Try again.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> fce,
You can try VSS or RSS and see if there is an improvement.

Click on Start / Run

1. CMD + Enter (opens the DOS window)
2. CD C:\$ISR\$APP\Setup + Enter
3. ISRSetup –install –rss (or –vss) + Enter
4. Close the DOS window
5. re-boot

Try again. <-QUOTE}

erik, what's the effect of that in my whole system if i run that? I might run FDISR with that setup but it might affect some of my software and application?

hope you will enlighten me.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> erik, what's the effect of that in my whole system if i run that? I might run FDISR with that setup but it might affect some of my software and application?

hope you will enlighten me. <-QUOTE}
IMO it only affects FDISR. All these instructions are for FDISR and you can switch back to VSS or RSS.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> IMO it only affects FDISR. All these instructions are for FDISR and you can switch back to VSS or RSS. <-QUOTE}


then if i switch back, same problem?

i browse leapfrog post, i'm a little bit concern switching from VSS to RSS after reading this post. is it really big issue?

The reason for this migration is VSS has the added capability beyond RSS to coordinate with various application to initiate a pre-shadow request. This pre-shadow request will allow the specific applications to to flush buffers, perform record clean-ups, etc. Some the of the applications that directly take advantage of this are SQL Server, Exchange, Oracle products, Citrix, etc.

The RSS/VSS is only used as a mechanism to produce a copy/archive. The end result is exactly the same. VSS just adds a bit more functionality to our clients requiring these features.

[stapp]

If it's of any help to you at all I use rss. It's very easy to change between the two without affecting your system.

It works better for me, with vss it was very slow.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> then if i switch back, same problem?

i browse leapfrog post, i'm a little bit concern switching from VSS to RSS after reading this post. is it really big issue?

The reason for this migration is VSS has the added capability beyond RSS to coordinate with various application to initiate a pre-shadow request. This pre-shadow request will allow the specific applications to to flush buffers, perform record clean-ups, etc. Some the of the applications that directly take advantage of this are SQL Server, Exchange, Oracle products, Citrix, etc.

The RSS/VSS is only used as a mechanism to produce a copy/archive. The end result is exactly the same. VSS just adds a bit more functionality to our clients requiring these features. <-QUOTE}
If you don't want to try, that is OK with me.
I tried both and switched back to VSS, because I didn't see any difference.
It certainly has something to do with the function "copy/update" of FDISR, because I see VSS on the processing screen of copy/update.

You can't copy/update. Isn't it worth to try RSS ? If RSS doesn't work switch back to VSS and try copy/update again. Who knows it might work suddenly.
If you don't trust the whole thing, contact the support and wait for an answer.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Oh, I thought that all that typical laptop stuff was included in winVISTA or any other Windows. Well, I have no experience with laptops, so I guess you are probably right about this. I would probably ask the vendor, if I can do this or not. <-QUOTE}

The vendors will all say no. They are clueless. I am not kidding.

[stapp]

It may have also been an idea to check in services that the Volume Shadow Service and Microsoft Software shadow Copy Provider were not disabled before you try rss, just in case that's why it wouldn't copy.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> The vendors will all say no. They are clueless. I am not kidding. <-QUOTE}
I understand. Which vendors know the products they are selling nowadays. There are exceptions, but the majority is good in talking and selling and that's it.

[fce]

stapp, how to do that?

erik, i try RSS still the same problem.

thanks

[stapp]

{QUOTE-> stapp, how to do that?

<-QUOTE}

Do start - run - and type services.msc into the box and press ok.

you will then see the services which run on your computer and whether they are set to manual, disabled or automatic.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> stapp, how to do that?

erik, i try RSS still the same problem.

thanks <-QUOTE}
Start / Control Panel / Administrative Tools / Services / Volume Shadow Copy = Manual

Change back to vss and try again.

[fce]

stapp, Erik....do i need to disable it? VSS start up type is Manual same with Microsoft Shadow copy

[fce]

i already try my best guys, i think my new computer dont like FDISR.

back to option 1.....either ATI10 or Rollback Rx

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> stapp, Erik....do i need to disable it? VSS start up type is Manual same with Microsoft Shadow copy <-QUOTE}
No the good setting = manual, that is also the default setting after installing Windows.
Nothing seems to work and that's a pity.
Only support can help you now.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> i already try my best guys, i think my new computer dont like FDISR.

back to option 1.....either ATI10 or Rollback Rx <-QUOTE}
You certainly need an Image Backup Software, like ATI. That is a MUST.
Never work with a computer without backup.
FDISR and/or RollbackRx is LUXURY, it's easy to have but you don't really need it.

FDISR or RollbackRx is NOT a replacement for Image Backup software.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> You certainly need an Image Backup Software, like ATI. That is a MUST.
Never work with a computer without backup. <-QUOTE}


yeah thats why im interested with FDISR or any software that do the same as windows system restore....but of course more improve.

im looking now for Rollback Rx

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
im looking now for Rollback Rx <-QUOTE}
Keep in mind that RollbackRx is not discussed here.
RollbackRx is for the forum "Software & Services" otherwise we get troubles with the moderators.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Keep in mind that RollbackRx is not discussed here.
RollbackRx is for the forum "Software & Services" otherwise we get troubles with the moderators. <-QUOTE}


oopss. sorry.

i'll created thread in that forum hope you still help me even though you guys hate rollback rx :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> oopss. sorry.

i'll created thread in that forum hope you still help me even though you guys hate rollback rx :) <-QUOTE}

HI Fce

You should definitely contact support thru the vendor you got FDISR from. THey will work with you.

[Horus37]

Forgot to ask if you've disabled Microsoft backup prior to installing FDISR? I disabled and deleted all MS restore points prior to installing FDISR on xp. I'd try using RSS before giving up hope. Their might be another program you are unaware of that is fighting FDISR for use of VSS, or leaves VSS in a bad state. You can see all the VSS writers on a computer by typing in "vssadmin" in a dos box without the quotes.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> HI Fce

You should definitely contact support thru the vendor you got FDISR from. THey will work with you. <-QUOTE}

Ticket #: 4073-4967148
Status: Open
Date Created: 8/22/2007 11:55 AM PDT
Date Updated: 8/22/2007 11:55 AM PDT

i give this link. hope they will reply. btw, the vendor is horizon

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Ticket #: 4073-4967148
Status: Open
Date Created: 8/22/2007 11:55 AM PDT
Date Updated: 8/22/2007 11:55 AM PDT

i give this link. hope they will reply. btw, the vendor is horizon <-QUOTE}

Hi FCE

Just in case, note that a link pointing to this thread is not really meaningfull. You, I hope, spelled out the problem in detail in your ticket. Most of the support folks won't take the time to check out a link and wade thru a forum thread.

Pete

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> You can see all the VSS writers on a computer by typing in "vssadmin" in a dos box without the quotes. <-QUOTE}
That's clever, I really should learn more about DOS, some clever features.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Hi FCE

Just in case, note that a link pointing to this thread is not really meaningfull. You, I hope, spelled out the problem in detail in your ticket. Most of the support folks won't take the time to check out a link and wade thru a forum thread.

Pete <-QUOTE}

anyway i informed them the problem, its up to them if they want to check this link.


@horus...i try RSS and its not working also. what will i do with the "vssadmin", do i need to disable/enable anything?

[Horus37]

"vssadmin list writers" will show you if their state is stable or not.

"vssadmin list providers" will show that microsoft software shadow copy provider 1.0 as the provider. version 1.0.0.7 should be the one listed for windows xp. If you have more providers I suppose they'd show up here. Most notably you'll probably see shadowprotect's vss engine listed here too.

You need to get ahold of forum poster "grnxnm" since he seems to be well versed in the use of VSS and shadow protect. See here.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=1001311&highlight=volume+shadow+service#post1001311

[Peter2150]

I don't think at this point it's a vss conflict. That was a problem before. Once I get the vista compatible copy of SP Desktop V3 loaded I will make a new vista snapshot and play a bit.

I think this may well be a vista problem.

[ErikAlbert]

That's why I don't want winVISTA on my computer, such new OS causes ALWAYS problems. When my new computer is worned out, most bugs of winVISTA will be fixed. After all it's just an OS, I don't work with an OS, I work with application softwares.

[chrome_sturmen]

1. Uninstall bloatware (~5program)
2. Install CCLEANER (to clean registry after uninstalling bloatware)
3. Uninstall CCLEANER after cleaning registry (since its not advisable to clean registry when FDISR is installed)
4. Turn off system restore (save more HDD space, since FDISR will do the work)
5. Install FDISR

Lemme comment on this:

I say, when you get your laptop, the first thing to do is format it- ask around if you dont trust me.

Install your operating system

Get all your windows updates, and add whatever system maintenance programs you want, and do base level tweaks- let this be your base setup, and make an archive of it.

Copy from that archive and use it for your general useage snapshot- you dont need to uninstall c cleaner, its not gonna hurt your first defense, I dont know why no ones told you that.

Make an archive of the second snapshot also, and keep them updated regularly, either manually or by schedule.

The rest you'll eventually figure out on your own....

[fce]

{QUOTE-> 1. Uninstall bloatware (~5program)
2. Install CCLEANER (to clean registry after uninstalling bloatware)
3. Uninstall CCLEANER after cleaning registry (since its not advisable to clean registry when FDISR is installed)
4. Turn off system restore (save more HDD space, since FDISR will do the work)
5. Install FDISR

Lemme comment on this:

I say, when you get your laptop, the first thing to do is format it- ask around if you dont trust me.

Install your operating system

Get all your windows updates, and add whatever system maintenance programs you want, and do base level tweaks- let this be your base setup, and make an archive of it.

Copy from that archive and use it for your general useage snapshot- you dont need to uninstall c cleaner, its not gonna hurt your first defense, I dont know why no ones told you that.

Make an archive of the second snapshot also, and keep them updated regularly, either manually or by schedule.

The rest you'll eventually figure out on your own.... <-QUOTE}


yup i do clean install. but FDISR is not happy with my Vista Premium.

i hope you guys visit this thread to help me re: Rollback Rx :lurking:

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=183386

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> 1. Uninstall bloatware (~5program)
2. Install CCLEANER (to clean registry after uninstalling bloatware)
3. Uninstall CCLEANER after cleaning registry (since its not advisable to clean registry when FDISR is installed)
4. Turn off system restore (save more HDD space, since FDISR will do the work)
5. Install FDISR

Lemme comment on this:

I say, when you get your laptop, the first thing to do is format it- ask around if you dont trust me.

Install your operating system

Get all your windows updates, and add whatever system maintenance programs you want, and do base level tweaks- let this be your base setup, and make an archive of it.

Copy from that archive and use it for your general useage snapshot- you dont need to uninstall c cleaner, its not gonna hurt your first defense, I dont know why no ones told you that.

Make an archive of the second snapshot also, and keep them updated regularly, either manually or by schedule.

The rest you'll eventually figure out on your own.... <-QUOTE}

Quick note on registry cleaners. I am currently using Regsupreme Pro, and I always do a normal(as opposed to aggressive) scan, then I select everything, and chose Fix (as opposed to remove) This lets the program fix what it can and remove what it can't fix. I've never had a problem with FDISR doing this.

Testing other cleaners has proved to be another story.

Pete

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> Quick note on registry cleaners. I am currently using Regsupreme Pro, and I always do a normal(as opposed to aggressive) scan, then I select everything, and chose Fix (as opposed to remove) This lets the program fix what it can and remove what it can't fix. I've never had a problem with FDISR doing this.

Testing other cleaners has proved to be another story.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Totally agree with this, there is nothing wrong with cleaning the registry with fd-isr insatlled, however, this presumes that when you are cleaning the registry you know what you are removing, much like the fad of "optimizing" windows by turning off/disabling services, perfectly fine as long as you know what you are disabling. If you do not know what you are cleaning or disabling then you are likely to end up with more problems than benefits.

[fce]

OMG! After uninstalling Intel Turbo Memory....FDISR is now working with my Vista ;D

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> OMG! After uninstalling Intel Turbo Memory....FDISR is now working with my Vista ;D <-QUOTE}

Good!

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> OMG! After uninstalling Intel Turbo Memory....FDISR is now working with my Vista ;D <-QUOTE}
Are you talking about this hardware and software combination ?
http://www.intel.com/design/flash/nand/turbomemory/index.htm
Where did you get that info ? From support ? From yourself ?

[fce]

erik,

yes thats the 1gb turbo memory i used for my laptop.

I only assumed that its causing the problem (means only myself) because after i removed the device i can run FDISR and create a snapshot

but after playing with FDISR i got this static error. i change to VSS to RSS still not working. i disable my AV still not working. so i just use Rollback Rx to restore my system. :-\


I send log file to Horizon.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> erik,

yes thats the 1gb turbo memory i used for my laptop.

I only assumed that its causing the problem (means only myself) because after i removed the device i can run FDISR and create a snapshot

but after playing with FDISR i got this static error. i change to VSS to RSS still not working. i disable my AV still not working. so i just use Rollback Rx to restore my system. :-\


I send log file to Horizon. <-QUOTE}
OK. Your high I.Q. solved at least a part of the problem. Let's hope that Horizon solves the other part. :)