what is the difference between fd-isr and rollback rx?

[sach1000rt]

I want to know the difference between these two softwares.
in rollback rx we cant exclude a folder from snapshot is that right? on the other hand we can exclude a folder with data anchoring.

[Longboard]

@sach100rt: search this sub forum for rollback threads, search the whole site for same; there are a multitude of analyses and comparisons. :)

[TonyW]

Horizon DataSys have produced a white paper outlining the difference between these two products:

http://supportcenteronline.com/ics/support/DLRedirect.asp?fileID=63375

[stapp]

Tony this link doesn't work for me.

[TonyW]

It should prompt you with an option to download a .pdf file.

[stapp]

This is what I get when I click the link

http://www.screenshots.cc/view_image/393271853/support (Large).JPG

[TonyW]

I actually saw that too after you said the link doesn't work for you, but tried again. It worked and still works. I'm using Firefox by the way.

Screenshot attached:

[pandlouk]

For accessing a page of Horizondatasys support you must first "open" a page of their site.

[stapp]

Cannot get that page Mike with Opera, or even IE.

Were you on the web site as pandlouk says you must be?

[ronjor]

Go to this page and click on the knowledge base tab at the top. http://supportcenteronline.com/ics/support/default.asp?deptID=4443

[stapp]

I can access the Horizon data sys pages okay, it's the online support link which neither opera or IE will let me have for some reason.

Sorry to have taken this topic off track.

[ronjor]

Try this link. (http://supportcenteronline.com/dmfiles/4073/4443/Support%20Downloads/RollBack%20Rx/Whitepapers%20&%20Documents/RB_Vs_FD2_v2.pdf?)

[stapp]

That link works ronjor, what's the difference I wonder.

[ErikAlbert]

A good read for those who combined FDISR with RBRx. ;D
{QUOTE->
To recap, HDS thinks that the installation of RB Rx and FD-ISR on the same machine to be extremely unwise; we strongly dissuade the reader from taking this step. WE WILL NOT PROVIDE ANY TECHNICAL SUPPORT FOR PROBLEMS ARISING FROM INSTALLING BOTH PRODUCTS ON A SINGLE MACHINE. Users insisting on such an installation must rely completely on their own resources. Or, alternately, you might approach the people or institutions whose advice you took.
<-QUOTE}

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> A good read for those who combined FDISR with RBRx. ;D <-QUOTE}

I've sort of come to the same conclusion. FDISR is still the mainstay and for now at least, RBRx is in the byte bucket. In the future who knows.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I've sort of come to the same conclusion. FDISR is still the mainstay and for now at least, RBRx is in the byte bucket. In the future who knows. <-QUOTE}
I wonder how 'dangerous' it is, when you combine FDISR with other immediate system recovery softwares, like PowerShadow, Returnil, DeepFreeze, ShadowDefender, ShadowUser, ... the row becomes longer and longer.
One of course, not all of them at the same time. ;D

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I wonder how 'dangerous' it is, when you combine FDISR with other immediate system recovery softwares, like PowerShadow, Returnil, DeepFreeze, ShadowDefender, ShadowUser, ... the row becomes longer and longer.
One of course, not all of them at the same time. ;D <-QUOTE}

Shadowdefender and FDISR have been very well behaved. Actually the biggest issue I had with the Rollback/FDISR combo was having to sort of keep track of where/what I was doing, and the imaging while doable, was a pain. For me the gain wasn't worth it.

[lucas1985]

"Shadow" softwares and FD-ISR usually play well together, because they're different applications at the technical and purpose level.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Shadowdefender and FDISR have been very well behaved. <-QUOTE}
What do you install ShadowDefender ?
1. First ShadowDefender and then FDISR or
2. First FDISR and then ShadowDefender in one snapshot or
3. First FDISR and then ShadowDefender in each snapshot.

[Horus37]

Erik, Powershadow and sandboxie inside a frozen snapshot works well without any special tweaking. I think sandboxie is still a tiny bit buggy but no major problems really. layering by combining a sandbox, virtualization, and hips seems a good prevention technique. Are you still using anti executable? As for using rollback rx inside an FDISR snapshot that is asking for trouble.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> What do you install ShadowDefender ?
1. First ShadowDefender and then FDISR or
2. First FDISR and then ShadowDefender in one snapshot or
3. First FDISR and then ShadowDefender in each snapshot. <-QUOTE}

I just installed ShadowDefender in one snapshot like any other app. I didn't install it in my secondary/game snapshot there as I don't need it there.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik, Powershadow and sandboxie inside a frozen snapshot works well without any special tweaking. I think sandboxie is still a tiny bit buggy but no major problems really. layering by combining a sandbox, virtualization, and hips seems a good prevention technique. Are you still using anti executable? As for using rollback rx inside an FDISR snapshot that is asking for trouble. <-QUOTE}
I already had Sandboxie in my frozen snapshot. Ditched it, the folder "My Documents" disappeared suddenly in my data partition. So it's still buggy.
PowerShadow isn't my favorite choice, I tried it, didn't work according my logic.
I'm more interested in ShadowDefender after reading its possibilities, the one that Peter uses at this moment.

Yes I still have Anti-Executable and keep it. Can be very annoying sometimes, but I consider any security software as annoying. I find locking my frontdoor also very annoying.

I got at least rid of all my scanners, which was the most time-consuming group of security softwares. My computer is now clean in 1m52s as many times I want. Very soon, I will have an army of clean images to make it even better + a number of other advantages.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I just installed ShadowDefender in one snapshot like any other app. I didn't install it in my secondary/game snapshot there as I don't need it there. <-QUOTE}
OK Peter. Once my new installation is permanent, I will try it myself and see what happens ...
ShadowProtect was a very big help in preparing my new installation and will be a big help in the future also to do more testings.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I already had Sandboxie in my frozen snapshot. Ditched it, the folder &quot;My Documents&quot; disappeared suddenly in my data partition. So it's still buggy.
PowerShadow isn't my favorite choice, I tried it, didn't work according my logic.
I'm more interested in ShadowDefender after reading its possibilities, the one that Peter uses at this moment.

Yes I still have Anti-Executable and keep it. Can be very annoying sometimes, but I consider any security software as annoying. I find locking my frontdoor also very annoying.

I got at least rid of all my scanners, which was the most time-consuming group of security softwares. My computer is now clean in 1m52s as many times I want. Very soon, I will have an army of clean images to make it even better + a number of other advantages. <-QUOTE} I've been using sandboxie for about a month now and haven't seen anything disappear but I'll watch for it. I use powershadow because it's been good to me now that I know about the MBR issue and it was free. If I have major problems with it I'll ditch it fast like I've ditched defensewall, returnil, SSM, and countless others. If I had to pay for something shadow defender looks like a good bet. However I wonder how stable it is inside a frozen snapshot. Shadow defender plus anti executable plus shadow protect plus a script blocker and a good AV and I think one would be set inside a frozen snapshot with firefox as a browser.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> However I wonder how stable it is inside a frozen snapshot. <-QUOTE}
IF I would use ShadowDefender, it has to replace my frozen snapshot with a normal snapshot otherwise I don't see the purpose of it. Two softwares for keeping my harddisk unchanged is a case of redundancy.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I already had Sandboxie in my frozen snapshot. Ditched it, the folder &quot;My Documents&quot; disappeared suddenly in my data partition. So it's still buggy.
PowerShadow isn't my favorite choice, I tried it, didn't work according my logic.
I'm more interested in ShadowDefender after reading its possibilities, the one that Peter uses at this moment.

Yes I still have Anti-Executable and keep it. Can be very annoying sometimes, but I consider any security software as annoying. I find locking my frontdoor also very annoying.

I got at least rid of all my scanners, which was the most time-consuming group of security softwares. My computer is now clean in 1m52s as many times I want. Very soon, I will have an army of clean images to make it even better + a number of other advantages. <-QUOTE} I've been using sandboxie for about a month now and haven't seen anything disappear but I'll watch for it. I use powershadow because it was free and I know about the MBR situation. It works in limited user mode and has no conflicts with my other security software and plays nice with FDISR. Comodo FW is coming out with a version 3 that will be way better and I'm holding out for that before I redo my system. I'd like to get the anti executable but I feel pretty safe without it with my setup and fee like it's a bit overkill. What script blocking program did you settle on? I still don't see rollback rx as an option over FDISR as speed and space are not an issue with me yet.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> What script blocking program did you settle on? <-QUOTE}
I use ScriptDefender, which isn't really a security software, it's more a warning software that requires my 'wrong' yes or no.

[EASTER]

What i like best about AE is the WHITELIST!/BLACKLIST! feature and it does work like a charm. Yes, it takes additional time to configure new programs into it's database but nothing out-of-the-ordinary then any other security program.

Overkill, perhaps, but if you really want a Controlled Inventory of allowed programs, this baby is the ticket to a tightly controlled Windows environment.

Only problem, is that according to Peter2150 it doesn't cooperate very well with FD-ISR.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> What i like best about AE is the WHITELIST!/BLACKLIST! feature and it does work like a charm. Yes, it takes additional time to configure new programs into it's database but nothing out-of-the-ordinary then any other security program.

Overkill, perhaps, but if you really want a Controlled Inventory of allowed programs, this baby is the ticket to a tightly controlled Windows environment.

Only problem, is that according to Peter2150 it doesn't cooperate very well with FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

Hi Easter

Have you noticed anything with the two.

Pete

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> Hi Easter

Have you noticed anything with the two.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Not particularly.

Hi Pete.

Since your suggestion i haven't bothered to combine them at all. Prefer to play it safe.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Not particularly.

Hi Pete.

Since your suggestion i haven't bothered to combine them at all. Prefer to play it safe. <-QUOTE}

I thought you were running FDISR?

[EASTER]

{QUOTE-> I thought you were running FDISR? <-QUOTE}

I do, but on another LARGER Hard Drive. Being overly cautious with software programs these days, especially security ones, i installed AE to a drive without FD. I really not attempted to combine the two but was my understanding they didn't gel. Is this right?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I do, but on another LARGER Hard Drive. Being overly cautious with software programs these days, especially security ones, i installed AE to a drive without FD. I really not attempted to combine the two but was my understanding they didn't gel. Is this right? <-QUOTE}

They didn't for me. I mean they ran together, but FDISR spent much time getting ready to copy. Dangest part was even if AE was disabled it was still a problem. That was an eye opener. You might test it. Just pay attention to your run times.

Pete

[EASTER]

Not likely. If it can make for issues, even a slight one, then no sense doing something that might cost extra time to try to correct, right?

More On Topic:

I'm 100% sold and completely satisfied with FD-ISR results even now that RollBackRx is moving forward with their own flavor of innovation in this department.

But remember too. Leapfrog is a very well coordinated group of skilled developers in this field, and we can expect even more advancements coming from that camp at some point in time.

I think Rollback's jump to sonic-speed features like they've done with this latest version is a plus for them AND US. And was sorely needed to restore confidence again in that program.

But for now, FD-ISR still remains the chief rollback operation on this end of the internet spectrum.

[biatche]

I see that a lot here do a combo of

FDISR + PowerShadow / ShadowDefense? / Sandboxie

May I ask why? Doesn't FDISR have the capability to restore all configuration after each reboot?

And... wouldn't Deep Freeze achieve the same thing?

Also, if my above understanding is wrong, mind recommending me an ideal setup for cybercafe operations?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I see that a lot here do a combo of

FDISR + PowerShadow / ShadowDefense? / Sandboxie

May I ask why? Doesn't FDISR have the capability to restore all configuration after each reboot?

And... wouldn't Deep Freeze achieve the same thing?

Also, if my above understanding is wrong, mind recommending me an ideal setup for cybercafe operations? <-QUOTE}

Combination of speed and space. I use shadowdefender for simple things like say when I watch a movie onlne, and it downloads it's own player. True I could use FDISR, but Shadowdefender with just a reboot is quicker. It also provides a layer on top of sandboxie. Again true FDISR could do it alone, but again difference in speed.

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Combination of speed and space. I use shadowdefender for simple things like say when I watch a movie onlne, and it downloads it's own player. True I could use FDISR, but Shadowdefender with just a reboot is quicker. It also provides a layer on top of sandboxie. Again true FDISR could do it alone, but again difference in speed. <-QUOTE}

how about try the speed of Rollback Rx. ;)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> how about try the speed of Rollback Rx. ;) <-QUOTE}

Yep, it's faster, but any speed advantage gained there goes down the drain with what I had to do for reliable imaging. In the end the imaging ease was more beneficial to me then Rollback.

[biatche]

I'm a bit confused Peter, but how does the combo provide speed? How does shadowdefender make it faster?

[fce]

{QUOTE-> Yep, it's faster, but any speed advantage gained there goes down the drain with what I had to do for reliable imaging. In the end the imaging ease was more beneficial to me then Rollback. <-QUOTE}

IMO, imaging feature of Rollback Rx is more reliable compare to ATI10...and that is base on my actual experience after i do bare metal recovery using Rollback Rx 8.1 and ATI10....don't know yet with SP though.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> IMO, imaging feature of Rollback Rx is more reliable compare to ATI10...and that is base on my actual experience after i do bare metal recovery using Rollback Rx 8.1 and ATI10....don't know yet with SP though. <-QUOTE}

No. What I am talking about is what I have to do to image. With FDISR, I just image. With Rollback I had to update the baseline, throwing away snapshots, and then I had to boot from the recovery environment. The imaging from windows didn't work. Rollbacks imaging is a non solution for me as the recovery environment doesn't work for me. Also as you discovered you have to reinstall Rollback. That is stupid. At least when I upgraded the baseline, and imaged with SP from the recovery environment, I got back what I imaged.

Just for me personally, imaging is more important the Rollback, and any time saved by Rollback was lost in what I had to do to image.