Making a new partition on the hdd does not work

[paesc]

Hi at all

I was glad to have Acronis Disk Director Suite 10, german version, for making an adittional partition on my hard disk for saving data like music, video, pictures etc.

Unfortunately, it did not work. It did look working fine, but the new partition was not built. I still have 2 partitions, C and D. D is a recovery section. Both are formatted in NTFS format.

I am working with Windows Vista Ultimate 32 Bit. My system is a HP Pavilion m8070.ch:
- English: http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/genericDocument?docname=c00968308&cc=us&dlc=en&lc=en&jumpid=reg_R1002_USEN#N304
- German: http://h10010.www1.hp.com/wwpc/ch/de/ho/WF06b/34513-372287-372659-372659-372659-13039822-78259369.html?jumpid=reg_R1002_CHDE

So could anybody help me creating a new partition for my data on my hard disk drive? That would be nice, thank you!

PS: I am only a user, not a pc supporter, so please write as easily as possible.

Greetings
Paesc

[MudCrab]

Can you post a screen shot of DD showing the current partitions? Or if you can't, can you at least type what it shows for the layout?
Something like: [NTFS Recovery Partition 5GB D:][NTFS Vista 120GB C:]

If the Recovery Partition is located at the start of the drive, then you should be able to shrink the Vista partition and then create a new partition in the unallocated space.

If the Recovery Partition is located at the end of the drive, then it may not boot correctly if you insert a new partition between them.

----

When you want to make changes to the system partition (in this case the C: drive) and you start the procedure in Windows, it will have to reboot to make the changes. This does not always work correctly with DD and the changes don't get applied.

Assuming the Recovery Partition is located first on the drive, then I would use Vista's Disk Management program to shrink the Vista C: partition down to the size you want and then use DD (or Vista's Disk Management) to create the new partition in the unallocated space.

Also, I always recommend that you have a backup of the drive (a True Image backup or Vista Image backup, for example) or at least backups of your important files before making any partition changes. These procedures are designed to be non-destructive, but sometimes things go wrong.

[cortez]

paesc: Make sure you make a recovery disk(s) if you have to (as many HP's don't come with any). The instructions are usually printed with the user's manual.

[paesc]

Thank you for your answers.

Ok, so I post a screen shot of my partitions on my hard disk drive:

Windows Explorer:

192277

There are the two partitions (title: Festplatten (2)). Both on the same hdd (only one is fix installed). The others (title: Geräte mit Wechselmedien (6)) are no hard disk drives. The hdd is a Samsung HD501LJ with 500 GB. So I think it must be possible to get 350 GB of space for my personal data, the partition C: should only contain Windows and other programs. Free space for C: is actually 367 GB.

Acronis Disk Director Suite:

192278

I want to have the 3 partitions as showed below (the purple one, K:, is that one Disc Director Suite didn't create):

192279

Questions:
1. How can I find out where these two partitions are located (Recovery section on the end or at the begin of the hdd)?
2. How can I get to the Vista's Disk Management program to shrink the Vista C: partition? Can you describe me the way to get it?

I still made a backup of the drive with Acronis True Image 10 before installing Disc Director Suite 10. I don't like the Recovery Discs from HP because Vista first was wrong pre-installed on my hdd. After that, I bought Vista Ultimate on an OEM disc and had much less problems.

Greez
Paesc

[MudCrab]

Disk Director shows the partitions in the order they are physically located on the hard disk. In your picture, the D: (recovery partition) is located at the end of the disk.

To get the picture you took, I assume you shrunk the C: partition, then moved the D: partition over, then created the K: partition at the end. Is that correct?

Do you care about the Recovery Partition? It sounds like you might not if you installed from a Vista OEM DVD.

You have three choices:
1) Setup the partitions as your picture shows, keeping the D: partition
2) Setup the new K: partition between the C: and D: partitions
3) Delete the D: partition, shrink C: and setup the new K: partition

If you make any changes to the D: partition (the original Recovery partition) you probably won't be able to use it to restore your PC. You may not care as you have installed from your Vista OEM DVD, but I'm just mentioning it. In fact, it may not work already.

When you do the procedures, do them one a at time. It generally works better that way. For example, instead of performing all the steps above before applying the changes do them one step at a time.

1) Shrink the C: partition using Vista's Disk Management (VDM) -- Apply changes
2) Move the D: partition using DD (or delete it using either VDM or DD) -- Apply changes
3) Create the new K: partition using VDM or DD -- Apply changes

To get to Vista's Disk Management: Control Panel->System and Maintenance->Administrative Tools->Computer Management then clink the Disk Management in the tree on the left side.

You can also click on the Create and Format Hard Disk Partitions link under Adiminstrative Tools to open Disk Management directly.

[zero7404]

i am in a similar situation, but using windows XP SP 2. I have tried automatic mode and manual mode. i have also tried to split the C: Partition into 2 as well as resize it. but none of this has worked.

http://i100.photobucket.com/albums/m8/sakman74/screen.jpg

I am trying to create another primary partition from C: that will allow me to install Windows Vista Home Premium. Hopefully you can tell me what i need to do to get this to work.

Thanks.

[MudCrab]

zero7404,

Have you only tried from Windows? If so, then boot to the DD cd and try the procedure. If the Full mode of DD doesn't work, then try the Safe mode version. Also make sure you're using the latest build of DD (version 10 is 2,160) if you are using a previous build and having problems.

In your case, the Recovery partition is at the start of the drive so you can just leave it. Use DD to shrink/resize the C: partition to the size you want and apply the changes. Then create a new NTFS Primary partition in the unallocated space for the Vista install and apply the changes (you can do this while still booted to the DD cd or boot back into Windows and create the partition). Make sure the C: partition is still the Active partition so XP will boot properly.

[zero7404]

{QUOTE-> zero7404,

Have you only tried from Windows? If so, then boot to the DD cd and try the procedure. If the Full mode of DD doesn't work, then try the Safe mode version. Also make sure you're using the latest build of DD (version 10 is 2,160) if you are using a previous build and having problems.

In your case, the Recovery partition is at the start of the drive so you can just leave it. Use DD to shrink/resize the C: partition to the size you want and apply the changes. Then create a new NTFS Primary partition in the unallocated space for the Vista install and apply the changes (you can do this while still booted to the DD cd or boot back into Windows and create the partition). Make sure the C: partition is still the Active partition so XP will boot properly. <-QUOTE}

thanks for the reply.
i found that i created a recovery dvd and so the D: drive was no longer necessary. I deleted it using DD and it took, on restart it was no longer there. I then tried to resize C: and after restart it was still at the same size it was before I commited the task. it was interesting to see that after committing, just before DD closed out, the changes I made to the drives snapped back to the original configuration I started with (as if i hit undo). and then windows restarted.

i did see an update on acronis' web site for this program, so i downloaded it but have not yet installed it, so i am using the pre 2,160 version of DD 10.

i don't have a DD disk as i downloaded this software from the site directly. would i be ok creating the boot media and using that to perform the tasks ? I am thinking of moving C: to the left, so that it is first, and then resizing it, and creating a new partition with the leftovers.

[MudCrab]

Yes, use the Acronis Media Builder program to create a new CD that contains both the Full and Safe versions of DD.

Then boot to the CD and make the changes. Starting partition procedures in Windows that require a reboot often don't work correctly. Booting to the cd and doing the procedure usually works in these cases.

If you don't care about the Recovery partition, then delete it. Move the C: partition over and apply the changes, then resize it and apply the changes, then create the new partition in the unallocated space.

[zero7404]

thanks again.

if it does not always work within windows, then i don't quite see the point of the software package, if i have to use the loader disc to do this.

additionally, do i need to wait a while after i select the full version when booting from the loader disc ? it was taking about a minute or so and i basically restarted after waiting at the logo screen for a minute with no pc activity....

i see that i could have deleted this D: just in windows and then installed vista on the unallocated space, then use vista's tools to resize the partition....

[MudCrab]

The Full mode uses Linux drivers. Depending on the computer's hardware it can take a while. Give it at least five minutes. If it hasn't started by then, then just reboot. The Linux drivers may not be working correctly on your system. This could also be why it doesn't work when Windows has to reboot to do the change.

Have you tried the Safe mode version of DD? This is a DOS-based version that accesses your hardware through the computer's BIOS.

Make sure to use the "Manual" mode of DD. It gives you a lot more control over the operations than the "Automatic" mode.

Personally, I prefer doing system partition changes by booting from the CD as it gets Windows out of the equation. If you're working with any partition other than the system partition then DD should be able to perform the procedure without needing to reboot.

8GB is kind of small for a Vista install. I would only try that as a last resort.

[zero7404]

i tried it again from the CD this morning and it worked. I decided to wait a few moments longer at the menu screen before selecting the version of DD I wanted.

I basically picked C: drive and selected move, shrank it a bit, and made an 80 GB D: for Vista. I actually wanted to also buy True Image 10 since I have used True Image 9 before, and was thinking of making yet another partition for the secure zone, but I figured that Window's System Restore and Backup will suit me as I have an external HD that I can use for backing up everything I have on my system.

True Image was very nice, it restored my entire machine quickly....

thanks for your help, much appreciated.

[MudCrab]

You're welcome for the help. I'm glad you got it to work.

Did the Full mode of DD end up working for you or did you use the Safe mode version?

Since you have an external hard drive that you can using for backups, I would recommend against using the SZ. You don't really have any control over management and you can't get at your backup files (not easily, anyway). Saving the backup images to the external is a much better approach.

[zero7404]

if i saved a backup image to the ext usb drive, will i be able to retrieve it when starting ti 10 from the loader disc ?

i successfully installed vista on D:, now i found that my fiance's AOL DSL modem (the computer on which i did all this to) is not supported in vista. i assumed using aol vr would allow configure the modem properly in vista, but it didn't. personally, i use always-on connections like cable or fios and don't bother running software firewalls since my router has one, but at this time i can only rely on her DSL. sucks because i can't get online in vista.

now, i am using vista's boot manager, does the os selector from DD do anything better or more efficiently in regard to managing OS startups ?

[MudCrab]

If you don't mind using Vista Bootloader and your system is working correctly, I wouldn't recommend installing OSS. It can be a royal pain to get setup and you'd most likely have to reinstall to fix it since you've already got it setup with Vista's loader.

If TI 10 can see your hard drives when you're booted to the cd, then yes, you should be able to do a restore. I would boot from the cd and load TI and at least do a verify of the image on the USB drive to make sure TI can read it successfully. Also check that TI shows your internal drives correctly.

If the DSL modem is going through a router, then why isn't the Vista computer connecting to the internet through the router? Is the DSL connection going straight into the computer?

Vista's been out for a while, you'd think AOL would have Vista drivers available for their modems.

[zero7404]

i did not buy true image 10 yet as i don't think ill need it since i use windows backup and system restore regularly

The pc is directly connected to the modem. i do not know how to use it as an always-on connection, and so have to rely on AOL 9.0 to get connected, from there i use firefox to do stuff

[paesc]

{QUOTE-> To get the picture you took, I assume you shrunk the C: partition, then moved the D: partition over, then created the K: partition at the end. Is that correct? <-QUOTE}

Yes, that’s what I tried, but not worked.

{QUOTE-> Do you care about the Recovery Partition? It sounds like you might not if you installed from a Vista OEM DVD. <-QUOTE}

When the recovery partition D: now is not necessary after installing Vista from an OEM Disc, then I don’t care about it. But I want to save it on an external HDD and/or double layer DVD to my security.

So did I right understand, that I can’t create the partition K:, when D: is between C: and K:? If yes, then I can save D: with Acronis True Image 10 on an external HDD or double layer DVD, delete D: from the HDD and create it once again after K: is built. Or delete D: completely.

PS: I have build 2161, that must be Vista capable. So it can’t be an error of Vista (that’s what I thirst suspected).

Greez
Paesc

[MudCrab]

paesc,

If you want to save a copy of the D: recovery partition, then use TI to make an image of it. However, if the image of the drive is not in it's original configuration then it may be useless to you since it may not allow restoration if you can't boot into it or the Restore Utilities can't find it. Do you have Recovery DVDs?

Once you have the D: partition backed up, just delete it. Then you can resize the C: partition and make the K: partition in the unallocated space.

Can you post of screenshot of Vista's Disk Management showing your drive? It may help to see what it shows.

If the C: (Vista) partition is first on the drive (which it looks like it is by your picture from DD), then, after deleting the D: partition, I would use Vista's Disk Management to shrink the C: partition to the size you want. Then you can use either Vista's Disk Managment or DD to create the new K: partition.

[paesc]

Yes, I have recovery DVDs - including the whole Vista Home Premium from HP and some other HP tools, including some drivers.

I don't know if the recovery discs need the partition D: for recovery my system... But I installed Vista Ultimate from an OEM DVD, so I think partition D: Recovery doesn't matter anymore... And as I wrote to HP, they said, that any other data than on the discs will be deleted by recovery the system with the discs. Sounds nice, huh?

Now the Image with Vista's Disk Management:

192313

So after deleting D:, Vista's Disk Management oder DD create my wanted partition K: without any problems? Which tool is the better one?

Greez
Paesc

[MudCrab]

The better one is the one that works, of course. :)

You should be able to delete the D: partition with either DD or Vista.

If you use DD to shrink/resize the C: partition, you may need to do a Vista Repair if a change gets made that makes it necessary (I haven't tested DD for resizing Vista partitions). If you use Vista to shrink the Vista partition then a repair shouldn't be needed.

After you have the unallocated space, use either DD or Vista to create the new partition.

[k0lo]

{QUOTE-> If you use DD to shrink/resize the C: partition, you may need to do a Vista Repair if a change gets made that makes it necessary (I haven't tested DD for resizing Vista partitions). <-QUOTE}
I've tested that on my system and DD worked fine. As long as you don't move the starting sector of the Vista partition a repair won't be necessary. In my case I moved the ending sector of the C: partition which is exactly what paesc will be doing.

[paesc]

Sounds good! Disc Director Suite is such an easy operating program (at least until yet).

So that are the steps I will do now. Please correct me if you would do anythin an other way:

1. Save partition "D: Recovery" on an external hdd/double layer dvd (partition "C: HP" is still saved with True Image 10.0)
2. Delete partition "D: Recovery" with Disc Director Suite 10 on my hdd
3. Shrink partition "C: HP" with all my programs (but I will left about 10 to 15 GB space for more programs) with Disc Director Suite 10
4. Create partition K: (for all my data like music, pictures etc.) with Disc Director Suite 10
5. Enjoying to have more digest for my data :)

So I mustn't move any Vista data, did I right understood? Partition C: is at the begin of my hdd, so I will not move any Vista data. Weird they have to stay at their physical place...

Edit:
PS: Vista wants to go down only to 329'804 MB for C:, only 140'591 MB for other activities (have a look to the picture below). So Disc Director Suite is much more flexible...

192314

Greez from Switzerland
Paesc

[k0lo]

Paesc:

That looks correct. Just two suggestions -- before you shrink the C: partition you should run the Windows defragmenter to be sure that there are no file fragments in the area at the end of the disk. You should not attempt to shrink the C: partition from the Windows version of DD10. Instead, boot from the DD10 recovery disk to do this step. You can do all of the steps from the recovery CD if you want, but making changes to the partition that Vista is running from should not be done while Vista is running.

After creating your K: partition you can choose to turn on System Restore for the K: drive IF you want to have Vista create Shadow Copies of your files; but only if you are running Vista Business, Enterprise, or Ultimate. The shadow copy feature is not available in the other editions of Vista. If you don't want shadow copies or can't use the feature because of the version of Vista that you have, then you should probably turn off System Restore on the K: drive to save space. Personally I like the Shadow Copy feature of Vista; it's one of my favorite features of the new OS. I find them incredibly useful for times that I'm stupid and accidentally delete the wrong file.

**For your recent edit -- try defragmenting C: first.

[paesc]

Oh, Vista don't have to run while shrinking partition C:? That's the partition all my programs, inclusive Vista, are placed... Ok, so I will get the Disc Directory 10 Disc to boot up, like you said (I have an original sale CD of Disc Director Suite, I hope it will work with that)... And of course first run the Windows defragmenter.

Shadow Copy sounds great... I have Vista Ultimate 32 Bit. Can I direct use shadow copy in any way or does it just make the system able to get back some deleted data, Vista Home Premium and Basic can't do? But I'm afraid it needs much more space...

Greez
Paesc

[k0lo]

Paesc:

Vista creates a snapshot of the disk daily and saves all of the incremental file changes in the shadow copies so that you can re-create any files at previous points in time. The disk cost is 15% of your partition size. To use the feature, right-click on a file or folder and choose "Restore previous versions" and Vista will display the file or folder as it existed on previous days. It's pretty neat technology and works on any kind of file since it works at the raw sector level.

[paesc]

Sounds nice. So when it needs around 15% of the partition size, that where in my case 15% from 92.1 GB: 13.815 GB. So when I want to install more programs, I think I should leave more empty space for partition C:... Or works ist also with less than 15% left?

Greez
Paesc

[k0lo]

Paesc:

Yes; I would allow 15% of the partition size for the System Restore files and it would also be prudent to allow 15% or so for future expansion if you decide later to install more programs.

However, if you already have System Restore enabled on the C: drive then System Restore has probably already taken its 15%, so I would check to see if System Restore is already enabled on the C: drive before deciding on a final size for the partition.

Here is an article (http://technet2.microsoft.com/WindowsVista/en/library/4ac505e6-dd8b-4ae7-80fa-b9d77cd8104d1033.mspx?mfr=true) that describes Shadow Copies and here is another (http://www.vista4beginners.com/System-Restore-Space-Used) that describes how to change the amount of disk space used by System Restore.

I can relate my experience with Shadow Copies as follows. I have System Restore enabled on my C: (programs) and D: (data) partitions so that shadow copies are generated on each partition. Both partitions are 40 GB each and system restore uses 15% of the disk space, or 6 GB, on each partition. On the C: drive there are constant changes going on with Windows creating log files and modifying the system files and consequently the 6 GB gives me shadow copies on the C: drive going back in time about a week. On the D: drive where I store my data files the changes are less frequent and consequently the 6 GB gives me shadow copies going back in time about a month. Combined with bimonthly images created with TrueImage, this gives me a backup solution that works well for my needs.

[paesc]

Thank you for the detailed notes. I checked the shadow copies settings, and they are still activated for C:. But in Windows help ist mentioned, that when I rebuild an older version of a file or folder, the current version will be deleted - irrecoverable. So everyone has to take care when using shadow copies.

So when I go to the Windows Explorer and check how much space is still taken, then the 15% are still included? If yes, I can go down with space I give to partition C: by creating the new partition K:.

Greez
Paesc

[k0lo]

{QUOTE-> Thank you for the detailed notes. I checked the shadow copies settings, and they are still activated for C:. But in Windows help ist mentioned, that when I rebuild an older version of a file or folder, the current version will be deleted - irrecoverable. <-QUOTE}Not if you save the file under a different name.{QUOTE-> So when I go to the Windows Explorer and check how much space is still taken, then the 15% are still included? If yes, I can go down with space I give to partition C: by creating the new partition K:.
<-QUOTE}Yes, the total includes all of the used space on the partition including the system restore files and shadow copies.

I just thought of something else. If you want your newly-resized C partition to reserve 15% of the disk size for shadow copies, and you are resizing by shrinking the partition, then you should probably do the following. First turn off system restore on the drive. Then resize the partition. Finally, turn system restore back on. The result will be that the space reserved for shadow copies will be 15% of the new size of the partition instead of 15% of the old size. You will lose your restore points when you do this but Windows will start creating them again.

[paesc]

Thank you very much for your informations. Now I created the new partition D: Data after deleting the old one D: Recovery (I decided to call it D: Data, not as primarily K: Data; that is clearer).

One question: when I am later deciding to shrink C: one more time, can I combine the new space with the new existing partition D: data? I simulated it, but the new space were only able to combine again with C:. Maybe it was not possible because D: is after the new free space...? That were really nasty.

Greez
Paesc

[k0lo]

Paesc:

Yes, you can do this. If you're simulating then do this:

a. Run DD and choose "Manual" mode
b. Resize C: to be smaller, leaving uncommitted free space to the right of C:
c. Resize D: to be larger by moving the left side of D: to the left, incorporating all of the uncommitted free space.

This should give you the desired partition layout. When you are ready to actually make the changes you should not resize C: while running Vista. Instead, do the following:

1. Run DD from the rescue CD and Shrink C: and leave uncommitted free space between C: and D:
2. Commit and reboot into Vista
3. Check to see that C: is now the size that you want.
4. Run DD in Vista. Expand D: to the left to incorporate the free space between C: and D:
5. Commit and check to see that D: is now what you want. This operation may take a while to complete if you have a lot of files in D: because the files must be moved. If D: is empty then it will complete quickly.

You can do all of this in the rescue environment while doing the first step, but I prefer doing one thing at a time and checking the outcome before moving to the next step.

[paesc]

That's great... I'm really glad to hear, that I can resize both partitions C: and D: also later.

{QUOTE-> 4. Run DD in Vista. Expand D: to the left to incorporate the free space between C: and D: <-QUOTE}

Can you give me the path? Is it just combinating two partitions?

Greez
Paesc

[k0lo]

Paesc:

No, you don't want to combine partitions. Basically you are just resizing. You first make C: smaller, leaving free space between the partitions. Then you make D: larger, incorporating the free space. To do this you right-click on the D: partition and choose "Resize". Then drag the left boundary of the D: partition to the left until there is no free space left.

[paesc]

I would like to thank you all very much to help me and for the information! :thumb: You did help me a lot. Good work.

Greez
Paesc