It's time to image...I think

[FadeAway]

I just treated myself to a brand new XP machine in my den. It's all mine
no other users. The best part is that the new machine has
two installed 160GB HDDs. My old machine had only one 40 GB drive.
The new machine has an ATH3500 CPU & 1 Gb RAM.

Over the years, XP got reinstalled on that old machine about 15 times,
as a result of my playing with various software. It seems now is
the time for imaging software, about which I know absolutely nothing.
From a little searching, it seems that ATI and Norton Ghost are
quite popular. I think what I want to be able to do is take a picture
of XP with all my applications and settings installed, and restore it,
then update any changed data files.

Could some of you experts point me at some websites or forum threads
where I could learn a bit about such software? Any and all
comments and recommendations of any kind would be most welcome.

Thanks.

[The Hammer]

This one by Paragon is gaining in popularity here at Wilders in addition to the ones you mentioned. Here is a mini review. http://www.vnunet.com/vnunet/downloads/2169682/paragon-hard-disk-manager

[ErikAlbert]

ShadowProtect Desktop ($70) is fast and reliable.
http://www.storagecraft.com/products/ShadowProtectDesktop/

FirstDefense-ISR (Immediate System Recovery, not Image Backup)
http://www.horizondatasys.com/253715.ihtml
This is optional and luxury of course, but Image Backup is a must.

I use both because I want to be invincible.

You also need a tool to zero or wipe your harddisk, because the killdisk virus seems to make any Recovery CD useless, unless you zero/wipe your harddisk first completely and then the Recovery CD will do its job.

PS: don't install Acronis True Image and ShadowProtect at the same time, they don't like eachother.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
I'm using ATI and I'm liking it.
http://eu.acronis.com/
Mrk

[Bio-Hazard]

Hello!

I personally use ShadowProtect Desktop (i just bought it yesterday) and i combine with it FirstDefense-ISR (Immediate System Recovery, not Image Backup). I have also used Acronis, it is also good. I didnt had any problems with it.

[Osaban]

I'd love to get ShadowProtect (it seems the logical patner of ShadowUser), but I've been using ATI for a long while now, and it hasn't failed once. In principle I don't collect programs.

[farmerlee]

Acronis trueimage is definitely best imo. I use it on all my systems. If you have seagate hard drives you can download seagate discwizard for free. Its basically a rebranded trueimage 10.

[sukarof]

Here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=167964&page=2&highlight=shadowprotect) is a thread about shadowprotect here at wilders.
I too am a Shadowprotect user, it is a great app, fast and extremely reliabel ime. Some might find it a bit expensive though
If you dont want to spend that much money I can recommend Image for Windows (http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/imagew.html)(and DOS) another extremely reliable imaging software. I´ve used it for a year or so and was very happy with it. Shadow protect is much faster and have incremetal backup possibilities that made me buy it.

[Peter2150]

I also have ShadowProtect. I've used and own Acronis V9. Ten has too much bloat. Also my experience with Acronis software is you are fine if you stick to basic functions, but I don't trust pushing it to the edge.

Pete

[JerryM]

I notice that Nothing But Software has TI 9.0 for $17.95.
http://www.nothingbutsoftware.com/Catalog_type.asp?ProductCode=36787

Is that a good deal?
Regards,
Jerry

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "I notice that Nothing But Software has TI 9.0 for $17.95.
http://www.nothingbutsoftware.com/Catalog_type.asp?ProductCode=36787

Is that a good deal?
Regards,
Jerry" }-
Yes the price is normally $50. An upgrade from v9 to v10 costs $30, but I didn't want that upgrade because of the bloat. I added $40 to $30 and bought ShadowProtect, which has no bloat, only usefull additional functions that improve backup/restore. The only advantage of v10 is compatibility with winVISTA. I hope this helps. LOL.

[Jo Ann]

The 'advantage' of ATI 10 over ATI 9 is that v10 will work with Vista. However, I choose not to use Vista and v9 works very well with XP, so I have no need for v10. $18 is a very good price for v9 if it's a legal copy (otherwise you won't be able to register and download updates)! ;)

[ErikAlbert]

FadeAway,
Whatever Image Backup software you will choose, don't buy it immediately, trial it first as long you can.
Test the backup and above all the restore in the trial period as many times as possible. If it works properly, then buy it.

[FadeAway]

Hi all

Thank you for the replies thus far. Being totally ignorant about
imaging software, I am not yet prepared to make any comments or ask
any intelligent questions. I will first need to follow up on all the info
provided by each responder.

By way of clarification, the drives are Seagates, but cost is not
an issue. Being a computer user, and not a computer hobbyist, I always
seek products which are solid, reliable, and uncomplicated. Whatever
the cost, just consider it as part of the price of the new machine.

The hardware is Vista compliant, upgrading to Vista is an option,
but there are no plans on doing it soon, so Vista compatibility
is not important at this point.

I would like to get something installed fairly soon while I know
the machine is perfectly clean. It is custom built, and has only
been three days since it arrived from the shop.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Hi all

Thank you for the replies thus far. Being totally ignorant about
imaging software, I am not yet prepared to make any comments or ask
any intelligent questions. I will first need to follow up on all the info
provided by each responder.

By way of clarification, the drives are Seagates, but cost is not
an issue. Being a computer user, and not a computer hobbyist, I always
seek products which are solid, reliable, and uncomplicated. Whatever
the cost, just consider it as part of the price of the new machine.

The hardware is Vista compliant, upgrading to Vista is an option,
but there are no plans on doing it soon, so Vista compatibility
is not important at this point.

I would like to get something installed fairly soon while I know
the machine is perfectly clean. It is custom built, and has only
been three days since it arrived from the shop." }-
Well, the best Image Backup Softwares have been mentioned, the choice is upto you.

Backup and restore aren't that difficult.
Backup is taking an image of your harddisk and store that image on another harddisk (external or internal) and restore is the opposite.
You can compress the image during the backup.
You can encrypt the image during the backup, if it's available.
You can also restore single files by mounting the image.
You can schedule these backups or not.
The best softwares guide you with wizards to make it even easier.

Once you have choosen an Image Backup software, members can help and teach you how to work with the choosen software, faster than the manual, but you have to choose first.
If you don't like the software, uninstall it and trial the next one.

[FadeAway]

OK ... First Question:

Is this how it happens: ???

1. Image software program is installed on C:\ drive (master)

2. Windows OS and all other applications are on C:\

3. All my data files (Photo albums, Docs, spreadsheets, installers, etc.)
I save to E:\ drive (slave)

4. I tell Image program to image drive C:\, & save image to E:\

5. I need to restore broken Windows on C:\

6. I tell Image program to restore E:\saved image
(do I need to wipe C:\ before restore?)

7. All OS and application programs on C:\ are deleted and replaced
by saved image from E:\

8. Data files originally saved to E:\ remain intact and untouched.

9. I reboot and am back to before Windows got broken

If something prevents the imaging software from running, there is some
kind of emergency boot CD

[zapjb]

Op said HDD are Seagates. Seagate offers free rebranded stripped down ATI.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "OK ... First Question:

Is this how it happens: ???

1. Image software program is installed on C:\ drive (master)

2. Windows OS and all other applications are on C:\

3. All my data files (Photo albums, Docs, spreadsheets, installers, etc.)
I save to E:\ drive (slave)

4. I tell Image program to image drive C:\, & save image to E:\

5. I need to restore broken Windows on C:\

6. I tell Image program to restore E:\saved image
(do I need to wipe C:\ before restore?)

7. All OS and application programs on C:\ are deleted and replaced
by saved image from E:\

8. Data files originally saved to E:\ remain intact and untouched.

9. I reboot and am back to before Windows got broken" }-

1. That is the right place for installing an Image Backup software.
You will also have a Recovery CD to restore an Image. You can create that Recovery CD with a function of the Image Backup software.
If your partition [C:] is corrupted, you will need that CD to restore an image from [E:], because your Image Backup software won't work anymore.

2. That is also very normal.

3. Saving your data files on another partition [E:] is also good, I do the same thing.

4. That is possible and good, although I would save the image on an EXTERNAL harddisk.

5. That can happen, because partition [C:] is the most vulnerable partition.

6. That is what you have to do in order to restore the system partition and can be done.
No you do NOT have to wipe your partition [C:] before restore.
The backup software will replace your harddisk with the image.
After a serious destructive malware attack (killdisk virus) I usually wipe out my harddisk
first before I restore. I feel better when I start with a clean harddisk.

7. That is correct

8. That is correct, because you restored the partition [C:], not the partition [E:]
So partition [E:] remains UNCHANGED and also the image of partition [C:] is still on [E:]

9. That is correct.

I also have a question : your partition [E:] contains all your personal data.
Where are you going to store the image of partition [E:] ?
Losing your personal data is a much bigger disaster than losing your Windows and Programs.
Harddisks can crash (physical damage) and when partition [E:] crashes and you don't have an image, you will lose ALL your personal data.

[FadeAway]

Hi ErikAlbert

Thanks so much for the helpful, detailed reply. I was editing my post as you
were making yours (see the comment added after point 9 of my last post).

With everyone's help, I now feel confident to begin trialing some products.
When that begins (tomorrow), I'm sure I will be back with questions.

As to personal data, I back it up quite regularly on encrypted CDs, and always
keep three versions back.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Hi ErikAlbert

Thanks so much for the helpful, detailed reply. I was editing my post as you
were making yours (see the comment added after point 9 of my last post).

With everyone's help, I now feel confident to begin trialing some products.
When that begins (tomorrow), I'm sure I will be back with questions.

As to personal data, I back it up quite regularly on encrypted CDs, and always
keep three versions back." }-
Since you are new to backup don't start with Terabyte's Image Backup software, because that software is not userfriendly.

[FadeAway]

So far so good, but I have another question.

After studying all the info provided in this thread by you generous
members, I have downloaded and installed Seagate's DiscWizard, which
is ATI rebadged for Seagate.

The program Wizards make it really EASY!

Thus far I have created an image of primary drive C:\ and saved it to
internal drive 2, which is E:\.

Then, following the Wizards, I created an emergency bootable CD.

I am now ready to test a restore of C:\. About half way through the
restore wizard, it asks whether or not Track 0 and the MBR should
be restored with the image. I do not know enough to be able to
answer that one, and cannot figure it out from reading the Help files.

Before I attempt a restore, and mess up the works, could someone help
me answer that option correctly?

If I decide to go with ATI, I will move future questions to the Acronis
forum, if that is appropriate.

Thank you again (feel free to add any other comments).

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "

I am now ready to test a restore of C:\. About half way through the
restore wizard, it asks whether or not Track 0 and the MBR should
be restored with the image. I do not know enough to be able to
answer that one, and cannot figure it out from reading the Help files.

Before I attempt a restore, and mess up the works, could someone help
me answer that option correctly?

If I decide to go with ATI, I will move future questions to the Acronis
forum, if that is appropriate.

Thank you again (feel free to add any other comments)." }-
I always restored the Track 0 and MBR, never had a problem with it and I think it is a good habit too in case you have softwares that change the MBR.
It's logical that you restore the MBR from the image, otherwise you might have another MBR.

In the past when FirstDefense-ISR still used the MBR (not anymore), it was very important to restore the MBR also; otherwise the Pre-boot was disabled.

[GroverH]

Fadeaway,-{ Quote: "If I decide to go with ATI, I will move future questions to the Acronis forum, if that is appropriate." }-All support from this private labeled program must come from Seagate.

If you were to post your question on the Acronis forum, my guess is that the "volunteers" would try to help you but there would be no help from Acronis Support and they might even remove your post--but that's a guess on my part.

Check my guides below and they may help. The private version is limited in functions.

More info about this private label version can be found here by Mustang
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showt...php?t=175584#7

[FadeAway]

-{ Quote: "Fadeaway,All support from this private labeled program must come from Seagate " }-

Thanks for that info. I am brand new to imaging software, and trying
to learn it. The Seagate version is my first attempt, with the expectation
that more will be trialed. I may end up with the full ATI paid version,
or something else. Too early to tell.

I have downloaded your guides and bookmarked the links, and will
read them before I continue.

[Peter2150]

I concur with Erik. I use Shadowprotect and always restore the MBR and track 0. I want the disk back the way it was when I imaged.

Pete

[FadeAway]

This is a new machine. Once I get a good Seagate image saved & tested,
I can uninstall the app, but leave the image. Then, if trials
of other Image software cause problems, I can re-install Seagate
DiskWizard and restore the original clean image. Does anyone see
any conflicts with that approach? Or perhaps there isn't even a need to
uninstall DiskWizard

[farmerlee]

With trueimage 10 you can uninstall the main program but leave the boot manager active. If anything goes wrong all you need to do is hit f11 during boot up and restore the image from there. Discwizard should be able to do the same.

[FadeAway]

In addition, I have already created the emergency recovery boot CD

[FadeAway]

HELP!!!

I am posting this from another computer.
I ran the Discwizard recovery wizard, to restore the image.

It rebooted into an Operation Progress screen, and just
sat there for a half hour, no drive activity. So I hit F11 to cancel, and
a screen came up asking me if I was sure I wanted to cancel
but the mouse pointer was dead. It sat there for another 5 minutes
then rebooted.
When it did, it came up with :

Verifying DMI pool data.....
Error loading operating system_

Soooo, I inserted the emergency recovery disk,
reboot, and get the same message : Error loading operating system.

Any suggestions Guru's, before I toss in the Windows reinstall disk?

[FadeAway]

Problem solved if anyone should run into it.

Somehow the process changed the device boot order sequence.
It was trying to boot from a floppy first.

Going into the BIOS setup, and changing the sequence back to
Cd\Hard drive\Floppy caused the emergency recovery CD to load
and successfully restore the image on boot.

You learn something new every day.

[GroverH]

Fadeaway,
Glad to see your problem solved. As you found out "the details matter".

Off line I was creating a response to your help request but it is no longer needed. However, you do need to be aware of many of the subtle differences in the routine of imaging.

I would suggest you print out (even additionally save an image) of your Boot.ini file; plus a picture/printout of our system disk as displayed in Disk Management screen. Should you have future troubles, this info would be essential to know.

Since I took the time to write out questions about what you did, I am going to go ahead and post these questions--just for your FYI.

No response is necessary unless you have wish to clarify for yourself any of the questions.-{ Quote: "Before you jump into using the Windows install CD, let us know more info. We need to try and picture your computer and the actions you took. I am assuming that you are using the Seagate version of ATI-10.

1. OS?
..Vista or XP ?
....Fat32 or NTFS?

2. Computer brand name/model & desktop/laptop?

3. How many partitions? Any hidden or diagnostic or data partitions?

4. Where did you store your backup arcive image used in the Recovery phase?

5. When you created the image,
__a. was this made inside Windows or using the Rescue CD?
__b. Tick marked the "My computer" option? (Guide Image B3 or B3A)
__c. did you Tick mark (Guide image B-4)
..... the "Disk 1" option; or
..... all partitions listed; or
..... only C partition

6. When performing the Restore, did you
__a. Begin inside Windows or from the Rescue CD
__b. When choosing what to restore, did you (Recovery Guide Image B6)
.....Tick Mark the "Disk" or Partition options were checked?

7. Do you know (from a prior viewing of the XP Disk Management Screen) whether system partions was the first partition shown?

8. Do you have another computer available to which you could temporarily attach the bad drive as an external or slave drive?

9. Maybe from the above, the forum helpers can piece together a solution. " }- No response necessary. You solved your own problem.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Problem solved if anyone should run into it.

Somehow the process changed the device boot order sequence.
It was trying to boot from a floppy first.

Going into the BIOS setup, and changing the sequence back to
Cd\Hard drive\Floppy caused the emergency recovery CD to load
and successfully restore the image on boot.

You learn something new every day." }-
I'm using this sequence : Floppy - CD - Harddrive and it works, because I had also problems with any other sequence.
If I insert a floppy and my CD-drive is empty, my computer will boot from the floppy.
If I insert a CD and my floppy-drive is empty, my computer will boot from the CD.
If my floppy-drive is empty and my CD-drive is empty, my computer will boot from the harddisk.
I still don't know for sure what will happen, if I insert a floppy and insert a CD also, but my logical mind tells me that my computer will boot from the floppy, because the boot sequence starts with the floppy.

I hope this helps, if it doesn't help, I hope you are able to forgive me. ;D

[FadeAway]

Hi EriKAlbert

Well, your boot sequence is the one I found in my BIOS when I
could not get anything to load. LOL.

When nothing would load, I threw in the Windows reinstall disk to
see if it would, and got the same error message again. That is
when I suspected that the machine was not pointed at the right
device on boot. So I booted into the BIOS and began poking around,
changed the device boot order sequence and, voila!, the machine
worked again.

Perhaps your BIOS is set up differently from mine, and ATI somehow
reset mine to a default configuration. I am only a novice when
it comes to the BIOS setup. But after it was changed, the emergency
recover disk booted and took 52 minutes to install the saved image of
C:\ from E:\. The image installed perfectly, I have rebooted a number
of times, and all is well.

In future, I will restore from the CD recovery disc, rather than
the program on C:\.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "Hi EriKAlbert
Well, your boot sequence is the one I found in my BIOS when I
could not get anything to load. LOL.
" }-
I don't know, why it doesn't work for you, but my BIOS seems to work very logical, much more than yours. Are you really sure about this, in your case I would check it out again.
Now, I can boot from floppy's and CD/DVD's without changing the boot sequence in BIOS and most probably you can't boot from floppy's anymore, unless you change the boot sequence and that is inconvenient.

On the other hand booting from floppy's is old-fashioned and I'm pretty sure you can convert any bootable floppy into a bootable CD/DVD, if you know how to do it.
I still have two floppy's, but I'm too lazy to figure out, how I can convert them into bootable CD's. It's not my priority #1. :)

[GroverH]

FadeAway,
Some suggested recommended reading regarding backups using ATI.

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=168268

Some other Useful Forum Threads
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=29880

[FadeAway]

A post script, mostly for newbies reading this thread:

After running Seagate Discwizard for a couple of weeks, creating
and restoring perfect images, I decided to invest the cash in
the full version of Acronis TI 10.

It's up and running here, and restoring full disc images absolutely
perfectly. I decided to buy it for the added features, but mostly
for the access to Acronis support if any problems ever crop up. Don't
ask me about all the added features in the full version, I haven't
tried any of them yet. I need to spend some time lurking the
Acronis forum first.

If you are among the financially challenged, and qualify for the
free Seagate version, it will serve you well for restoring a
crashed Windows without having to reinstall the OS and all your
apps. The whole restore operation here takes under 30 minutes.

My thanks again to all the nice folks who posted to this thread
and helped me along.

FadeAway.

[EASTER]

-{ Quote: "A post script, mostly for newbies reading this thread:

After running Seagate Discwizard for a couple of weeks, creating
and restoring perfect images, I decided to invest the cash in
the full version of Acronis TI 10.

It's up and running here, and restoring full disc images absolutely
perfectly. I decided to buy it for the added features, but mostly
for the access to Acronis support if any problems ever crop up. Don't
ask me about all the added features in the full version, I haven't
tried any of them yet. I need to spend some time lurking the
Acronis forum first.

If you are among the financially challenged, and qualify for the
free Seagate version, it will serve you well for restoring a
crashed Windows without having to reinstall the OS and all your
apps. The whole restore operation here takes under 30 minutes.

My thanks again to all the nice folks who posted to this thread
and helped me along.

FadeAway." }-

I'm one of those where Acronis fell out of favor for me. Some was my being green to imaging programs and some was the older versions that used to drive me batty trying to image to of all things, CD-RW's/CD-R's.

That was then, but this is now. I still shutter at the Acronis disaster posts spread all over their forum in a marathon fashion of complaints and failures, but with at least some users, including our very own ErikAlbert, TrueImage seems to breeze along just fine for those lucky souls.

I'm at this moment downloading the Seagate DiscWizard with it's Acronis 10? i think embedded to it and really don't have any reservations on making full use of that particular feature so long as all goes as expected. And from the reports and glowing results i read so far, seems it's dependable enough that SeaGate bundled it to their good name, and thats good enough for this user.

Regards EASTER

[FadeAway]

Easter - helpful hint:

I tried once restoring from the program on C:\, and it did not work,
although I think it's supposed to. Create a recovery boot CD and
restore from it. Works every time for me.

[GroverH]

FadeAway,
It's the added features which is causing grief for so many. Stick with the basics and you will have less problems.

Easter,
Some earlier postings detailed some of the limitations of the special version.