Conflicts between FDISR and Returnil?

[Horus37]

I noticed that it wants to create a "virtual partition" upon install. From my last encounter with programs that want to install a hidden partition, is this a bad idea to install returnil in a snapshot? Anyone having luck with this or should I just install returnil without creating the virtual partition?

[Eldar]

Works without problems with FDISR. :)
The virtual partition was created here.
As mentionned before, you can't boot to another snapshot, but on reboot you need to select your other snapshot by pressing F1.
That's a minor issue IMO. ;)

[Horus37]

What happens when you create another snapshot? Does that other snapshot need a whole new, different virtual partition or does it use the same partition that the previous snapshot used to store files in?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> What happens when you create another snapshot? Does that other snapshot need a whole new, different virtual partition or does it use the same partition that the previous snapshot used to store files in? <-QUOTE}

If you dismount the Returnil VP, then it is just a dumb file, and FDISR shouldn't have any problem with it.

Pete

[Horus37]

I just tried to make a new snapshot from one that had returnil in it with a dismounted vp and I had errors immediately and it said it would take 1 hour and 2o minutes to make the snapshot. I stopped the process as obviously this isn't acceptable. There's something wrong.

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> I just tried to make a new snapshot from one that had returnil in it with a dismounted vp and I had errors immediately and it said it would take 1 hour and 2o minutes to make the snapshot. I stopped the process as obviously this isn't acceptable. There's something wrong. <-QUOTE}

Just out of curiosity, but how large is the RVS Virtual Partition? If it is very large then this may account for the extreme time to make the snapshot...

[Horus37]

It looks like a 16 gb vp. That's too big I think. I thought I set it to mb instead of gb. However, large or small I still have errors on the copy attempt with the vp not mounted and making a copy from another snapshot that had all sec software off and nothing running in the background. I'll try it again once I reduce the size of the VP Anyway of reducing the size of the VP without uninstalling it?

Plus I'd like to know if you make a new snapshot does the VP created and sitting unmounted become mountable by the NEW snapshot or does it also create another virtual partition for the new snapshot to acces, in essence making two VP's?

[Coldmoon]

{QUOTE-> It looks like a 16 gb vp. That's too big I think. I thought I set it to mb instead of gb. However, large or small I still have errors on the copy attempt with the vp not mounted and making a copy from another snapshot that had all sec software off and nothing running in the background. I'll try it again once I reduce the size of the VP Anyway of reducing the size of the VP without uninstalling it?

Plus I'd like to know if you make a new snapshot does the VP created and sitting unmounted become mountable by the NEW snapshot or does it also create another virtual partition for the new snapshot to acces, in essence making two VP's? <-QUOTE}

There is no way to reduce the size of the VP manually. You will need to uninstall/reinstall RVS to create a VP with a new size. Once created however you have possibilities.

If the unmounted VP is causing an issue here, I would suggest making the new VP with a size small enough to fit on a DVD+-R (3 or 4 gigs?). You could then burn a backup of it or use an external backup drive for temp storage.

The trick to using the VP is that RVS can mount a properly formatted (made by RVS) VP even if it was not the copy that created it. All you need to do is to make sure it is called RVSYSTEM.img and that this file is located in the RVS root folder.

So in this case it may be better to just move the VP to a backup location or burn it to backup media, do your snapshot, then move the VP back into the root folder if you have to restore using the snapshot.

Mike

[Huupi]

Is there any urgent need for VP,i don't use a VP instead i use a external disk to save any data created in a returnal session.With a backup/sync app. i make my real system current after reboot. its simple as that !

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> There is no way to reduce the size of the VP manually. You will need to uninstall/reinstall RVS to create a VP with a new size. Once created however you have possibilities.

If the unmounted VP is causing an issue here, I would suggest making the new VP with a size small enough to fit on a DVD+-R (3 or 4 gigs?). You could then burn a backup of it or use an external backup drive for temp storage.

The trick to using the VP is that RVS can mount a properly formatted (made by RVS) VP even if it was not the copy that created it. All you need to do is to make sure it is called RVSYSTEM.img and that this file is located in the RVS root folder.

So in this case it may be better to just move the VP to a backup location or burn it to backup media, do your snapshot, then move the VP back into the root folder if you have to restore using the snapshot.

Mike <-QUOTE} Well I made another attemp at making a snapshot AFTER I did a rather lengthy uninstall procedure. Uninstalling this returnil required me to go into the registry and manually delete items as the uninstaller left so much behind that an attempt at reinstalling didn't work, hence I had to raid the registry manually to get it to reinstall without errors. During the 2nd attempt at the reinstall after a cleaning up of the registry it worked so I created a 1.5 gig partition and made a snapshot with that size unmounted and nothing starting up during bootup. It worked-no errors this time. I have mixed feelings about the virtual partition when using it with FDISR as FDISR already has anchored folders I could access and store stuff in. It might just be overkill to have anchored folders and a VP. Like you said just burn stuff to a DVD if I really need to. The VP I think is more for people that don't use FDISR but it will work with it as long as you don't set the VP size too high on install.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Well I made another attemp at making a snapshot AFTER I did a rather lengthy uninstall procedure. Uninstalling this returnil required me to go into the registry and manually delete items as the uninstaller left so much behind that an attempt at reinstalling didn't work, hence I had to raid the registry manually to get it to reinstall without errors. During the 2nd attempt at the reinstall after a cleaning up of the registry it worked so I created a 1.5 gig partition and made a snapshot with that size unmounted and nothing starting up during bootup. It worked-no errors this time. I have mixed feelings about the virtual partition when using it with FDISR as FDISR already has anchored folders I could access and store stuff in. It might just be overkill to have anchored folders and a VP. Like you said just burn stuff to a DVD if I really need to. The VP I think is more for people that don't use FDISR but it will work with it as long as you don't set the VP size too high on install. <-QUOTE}

I am going to have to run a test, but the anchored folder may not be a solution. Needs to be tested. It may well be that it is part of the partition which you protect with Returnil, but is accessible to the other snapshot. In that case it may end up that what you put there will be gone after reboot. Will test this tomorrow.

[Horus37]

I thought about it again right after I posted that and NO the anchored folder in FDISR won't do if you are virtualized so I am having to either copy data to disk or external hard drive if I don't do a virual partition. No biggie as I have a backup software program and an external hard drive to send stuff to. I would use returnil with FDISR above powershadow 2.6 only because it protects the MBR now and pwrshadow does not yet both work well in FDISR snapshots.

[ErikAlbert]

I have a pretty good idea of the Returnil's concept, but I have no experience with it.

At this moment, I'm using a frozen snapshot, I might replace my frozen snapshot with Returnil to protect my system partition [C:], which contains only WinXPproSP2 + FDISR + Applications, but no personal data, no emails, no email-address-books.
This also means that I don't need the Virtual Partition of Returnil.
Returnil's VP is only required when the user has no separate partition or doesn't want one.

I have two work snapshots :
1. Off-line snapshot, which is also my REFUGE snapshot.
2. On-line snapshot for the dirty work and that's why it is FROZEN and has a "Freeze Storage.arx".

Both snapshots are WORK snapshots and a copy/update between both snapshots is impossible, because they would destroy eachother. So I use an archive to restore these snapshots.

Now I have some questions :

1. Which software do I install first, Returnil or FirstDefense-ISR ?
I'm asking this because I can also install Returnil in my on-line snapshot and NOT in my off-line snapshot.
Due to my lack of experience with Returnil, I don't see the difference between both installations of Returnil.
My logical mind tells me, I have to install Returnil first and then FirstDefense-ISR.

2. If I install Returnil first will it protect both snapshots : off-line and on-line ?

3. Am I right about this ?
In my actual frozen snapshot I don't have any problem with installing softwares temporarily, that require a REBOOT during the installation.
I could be wrong, but I think that this is NOT possible in Returnil. As far I remember, PowerShadow had the same problem.

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> Works without problems with FDISR. :)
The virtual partition was created here.
As mentionned before, you can't boot to another snapshot, but on reboot you need to select your other snapshot by pressing F1.
That's a minor issue IMO. ;) <-QUOTE}
You can boot to another snapshot just fine provided you are not in session lock/protected mode. I say that only because I presume Horus is talking about copy/updating whilst not in protected mode as there would be little point in doing so otherwise. I have not tried to copy/update from a snapshot that has Returnil installed on it, largely because I am having other problems and am not at all sure at this point that the program will work for me.

[tradetime]

{QUOTE-> I just tried to make a new snapshot from one that had returnil in it with a dismounted vp and I had errors immediately and it said it would take 1 hour and 2o minutes to make the snapshot. I stopped the process as obviously this isn't acceptable. There's something wrong. <-QUOTE}
I suspect Returnil protects this file/partition somehow especially if you are using the password protection feature.

Here might be a possibility to try, bearing in mind I don't know how you use the app but......ensure that you are not in protected mode, dismount the VP and uncheck the password protect option if you use it, then shutdown the application and see if you can copy / update without errors. Looks like it will be a little while before I add this to another snapshot, so I can't try it yet.