ShadowProtect vs. ATI

[ErikAlbert]

I'm trialing the full evaluation of ShadowProtect at this moment.
It might be faster than ATI, but not as comfortable as ATI.

After zeroing my 2 harddisks, I tried to restore my system and data image, the same way as I did with ATI, but I couldn't restore any image, unless I created a partition for both harddisks.
It took me awhile to figure that out, because I wasn't used to this.
I don't have to do this with ATI, ATI only asks the source and destination and starts to recover. I wonder how much a total newbie would like this.
Of course all the partition letters were wrong or gone, but I'm used to this because ATI has the same problem.
The backup is a LITTLE more convenient and faster than ATI, but the restore is something else.
All images were restored PROPERLY and even the partition letters were CORRECT. I wonder how SP got these partition letters right. ;D The problem is that I didn't really see that my system image was written to [C:] and my data image was written to [D:] or I missed it.

Also the loading time of the Recovery CD lasts much longer than ATI and has too many waiting screens and
they are confusing : scrolling bars, waiting messages, blank frozen colored screens without any processing info, ... until I finally got a real menu, which was a big relief.

So not everything is glamor and glitter about ShadowProtect. :)

[lodore]

hello Erik,
at least the shadow protect desktop cd boots.
the normal TI one never did for me.
are you using a bartpe cd for ATI?
the shadow protect desktop recovery cd for version 3 is ment to be faster 2.5minutes instead of 5minutes.
I felt alot more comtable using shadow protect desktop when using the trial.
i never realy ever trusted ATI after about the second corropt image.
if you use the normal linux based cd for ATI thats why the drive letters are wrong.
the shaodow protect desktop recovery cd is based on winpe so it uses the correct windows drive letters.
lodore

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> hello Erik,
at least the shadow protect desktop cd boots.
the normal TI one never did for me.
are you using a bartpe cd for ATI?
the shadow protect desktop recovery cd for version 3 is ment to be faster 2.5minutes instead of 5minutes.
I felt alot more comtable using shadow protect desktop when using the trial.
i never realy ever trusted ATI after about the second corropt image.
if you use the normal linux based cd for ATI thats why the drive letters are wrong.
the shaodow protect desktop recovery cd is based on winpe so it uses the correct windows drive letters.
lodore <-QUOTE}
You probably never restored images on zero-ed harddisks otherwise you wouldn't talk like that. If you restore an image over an already installed harddisk, you don't have to create partitions.

[lodore]

i never trusted acronis to make a succussful image.
if you cant trust it to make a sucessfull image your hardly gonna restore it.
i have restored about 50 images with paragon with my old pc and it works flawlessly everytime.
i have created around 10images with the shadow protect destkop trial and they restored perfectly as well.
i might delete the c: partistion upstairs.
create the partistion and restore the image.
just to se if you need to tell it to create a partition.
also ill do the same with shadow protect desktop.
lodore

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> i never trusted acronis to make a succussful image.
if you cant trust it to make a sucessfull image your hardly gonna restore it.
i have restored about 50 images with paragon with my old pc and it works flawlessly everytime.
i have created around 10images with the shadow protect destkop trial and they restored perfectly as well.
lodore <-QUOTE}
I'm not defending any software, I'm just telling my experiences with ShadowProtect compared with ATI and for the record, I never had problems with ATI.
ALL softwares have fortunate and unfortunate users and what is common for all softwares isn't worth to talk about.

[aigle]

Eric, how fast is SP compared to ATI on ur system.

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> I'm not defending any software, I'm just telling my experiences with ShadowProtect compared with ATI and for the record, I never had problems with ATI.
ALL softwares have fortunate and unfortunate users and what is common for all softwares isn't worth to talk about. <-QUOTE}

i do agree with that.
there is one thing i didnt like about shadow protect desktop is that to restore a system partition you have to use the recovery cd.
with ATI and paragon you can tell them to restore an image then it asks for a reboot then does the restore in a pre boot blue screen mode.
lodore

[aigle]

Eric, sorry as ur post is very ambiguous to me. I did not get anything.{QUOTE-> I tried to restore my system and data image, the same way as I did with ATI, but I couldn't restore any image, unless I created a partition for both harddisks. <-QUOTE} Can u explain it a bit please?
{QUOTE->
Of course all the partition letters were wrong or gone, but I'm used to this because ATI has the same problem. <-QUOTE}{QUOTE-> even the partition letters were CORRECT. I wonder how SP got these partition letters right. ;D <-QUOTE} Are not u contradicting urself here? {QUOTE-> The problem is that I didn't really see that my system image was written to [C:] and my data image was written to [D:] or I missed it. <-QUOTE}What does it mean?
{QUOTE->
Also the loading time of the Recovery CD lasts much longer than ATI and has too many waiting screens and
they are confusing : scrolling bars, waiting messages, blank frozen colored screens without any processing info, ... until I finally got a real menu, which was a big relief.
<-QUOTE}I think they should have two CDs like paragon. If linux CD works on someone,s PC it will be fatser and he can use that.

[aigle]

An OT @ ladore

U have not told us about WinPE recovery CD of paragon? It was long ago that u promised to tel us about that. OT closed!!

[Peter2150]

Lodore The drive letter issue isn't because of the Linux disk. Using the same disk one of my computers reverses the c and d drives and the other doesn't.

Erik. The reason it ShadowProtect knows which drive is which is it is stored in the image.

I noticed myself for the first time, when I imaged a new IBM laptop, with the hidden partition, that when I selected both for imaging, SP actually created separate images for the c: drive and for the service partiton. I just restored c: first and then the service. In way this is more flexible since the service partition really doesn't change, I can just image and restore the c:

For what you want in software you may well just want to stick with the ATI version you have. There is something to be said for the IF it isn't broke, don't fix it.

Pete

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> i do agree with that.
there is one thing i didnt like about shadow protect desktop is that to restore a system partition you have to use the recovery cd.
with ATI and paragon you can tell them to restore an image then it asks for a reboot then does the restore in a pre boot blue screen mode.
lodore <-QUOTE}
Acc to grnmx this feature is very easy to implement and initially it was supposed to be in version 3 but later he told it to be included at some later time( if added). They have their own corporate preferences. It was a show stopper for me. I hate to use recovery CD.

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Acc to grnmx this feature is very easy to implement and initially it was supposed to be in version 3 but later he told it to be included at some later time( if added). They have their own corporate preferences. It was a show stopper for me. I hate to use recovery CD. <-QUOTE}
Hi aigle,
I concider recovery cd's only to be used if windows wont boot.
then you plug in the external harddrive,boot from recovery cd and restore image.
lodore

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> You probably never restored images on zero-ed harddisks otherwise you wouldn't talk like that. If you restore an image over an already installed harddisk, you don't have to create partitions. <-QUOTE}

Again there is a degree of flexibility. I don't use another program to zero the drives, but when you delete the volume you do have to create the partition. Here again you have a choice. You can create an exact partition from the image, or create an extended one.

This might admittedly be somewhat confusing to a newbie home user, but remember SP Desktop came from the IT edition, and the primary target is IT people. Since these folks are mainly interested in server backup, Storagecrafts emphasis was on reliable hot imaging, in which they have succeeded. It may not be quite as user friendly as ATI. I don't know. I just know it's fast and reliable.

Pete

Let me also add a PS. I've used ATI, and actually it never failed. But I don't know as I'd do some of the stuff I've done, if all I had is an ATI image. Is that valid. I don't know, but it's the way I feel.

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> Hi aigle,
I concider recovery cd's only to be used if windows wont boot.
then you plug in the external harddrive,boot from recovery cd and restore image.
lodore <-QUOTE}
Me too!

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> You probably never restored images on zero-ed harddisks otherwise you wouldn't talk like that. If you restore an image over an already installed harddisk, you don't have to create partitions. <-QUOTE}
After all why one should bother to zero his HD before restore?

[ErikAlbert]

aigle,
When you zero your harddisks you don't have anything anymore on your harddisk, because everything is replaced by zeroes. So no partitions anymore and that is a problem for ShadowProtect to restore images, not for ATI.
That's why you have to create each partition back in SP BEFORE you can restore the image, if you don't do this you CANNOT restore your image(s).

Because each partition is gone, there are no partition letters anymore, no [C:], no [D:], just "disk 0" and "disk 1".
That's why I wonder, where SP got these partition letters, because they were restored correctly.
I have A (diskette-drive), C (system), D (data), E (backup) and F (CD/DVD-drive) on my computer. :)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> After all why one should bother to zero his HD before restore? <-QUOTE}
The killdisk virus or any other destructive malware will kill your harddisk.
Didn't you read Peter's experience with killdisk ? He couldn't restore either.
Now you are going to say "That will never happen to me." :)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Again there is a degree of flexibility. I don't use another program to zero the drives, but when you delete the volume you do have to create the partition. Here again you have a choice. You can create an exact partition from the image, or create an extended one.

This might admittedly be somewhat confusing to a newbie home user, but remember SP Desktop came from the IT edition, and the primary target is IT people. Since these folks are mainly interested in server backup, Storagecrafts emphasis was on reliable hot imaging, in which they have succeeded. It may not be quite as user friendly as ATI. I don't know. I just know it's fast and reliable.

Pete

Let me also add a PS. I've used ATI, and actually it never failed. But I don't know as I'd do some of the stuff I've done, if all I had is an ATI image. Is that valid. I don't know, but it's the way I feel. <-QUOTE}
You can whitewash anything with a reasonable explanation.
The bottom line is that SP can't restore images if the partition isn't there or damaged, while this is not a problem for ATI.
I've done this several times and ATI restored without creating partitions.
I'm not defending ATI, I'm just telling my experience.

What you are telling is that there are two kinds of Image Backups :
1. one for professionals and
2. one for housewives.
I thought Image Backup was for everybody, obvious not. :)

[aigle]

{QUOTE->

Because each partition is gone, there are no partition letters anymore, no [C:], no [D:], just "disk 0" and "disk 1".
That's why I wonder, where SP got these partition letters, because they were restored correctly.
<-QUOTE}
Of course it got it from images.

BTW then what u mean by this in ur first post:{QUOTE-> Of course all the partition letters were wrong or gone, but I'm used to this because ATI has the same problem. <-QUOTE}

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> The killdisk virus or any other destructive malware will kill your harddisk.
Didn't you read Peter's experience with killdisk ? He couldn't restore either.
Now you are going to say "That will never happen to me." :) <-QUOTE}
Or after using PowerShadow version 8 I think. It writes to sector 15 that remians there!!
KillDisk is still on my disk but tied with invisible chains.

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> You can whitewash anything with a reasonable explanation.
The bottom line is that SP can't restore images if the partition isn't there or damaged, while this is not a problem for ATI.
I've done this several times and ATI restored without creating partitions.
I'm not defending ATI, I'm just telling my experience.

What you are telling is that there are two kinds of Image Backups :
1. one for professionals and
2. one for housewives.
I thought Image Backup was for everybody, obvious not. :) <-QUOTE}
I agree that SP must do this. It,s not good IMO.

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> An OT @ ladore

U have not told us about WinPE recovery CD of paragon? It was long ago that u promised to tel us about that. OT closed!! <-QUOTE}
Bump!

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> . But I don't know as I'd do some of the stuff I've done, if all I had is an ATI image. Is that valid. I don't know, but it's the way I feel. <-QUOTE}

Peter from your posts I can only assume "some of the stuff you have done".

I hope you will trust me when I say that my machines fail to boot on a regular basis following something I have tried. I make Acronis images daily and restore
daily - sometimes numerous times.

Fortunately the day I loaded Acronis 6 - made an image - restored that image -
I had not yet discovered this site and had no idea how dangerous my first system restore might have been. Since then it has been the only image I have relied upon. I now have FD-ISR on one machine but I still have an ATI image just in case I need to go back to a "clean" system before I installed FD-ISR.

[lodore]

Hi aigle,
i emailed paragon about two days ago about it and said the linux based cd doesnt see my maxtor one touch III usb 100gb drive.
so they said it can be avoided by making a custom winpe or bartpe cd.
they gave me a bartpe plugin.
i couldnt get it to work since it had 44 missing file errors because i used a oem windows xp cd.
i have replyed back saying it cant create a successfull bartpe cd.
i will see if i can use option number 2 and ask them to create me a successfull winpe cd.
i will pm you with any updates on that.
OT off.
lodore

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> Peter from your posts I can only assume "some of the stuff you have done".

I hope you will trust me when I say that my machines fail to boot on a regular basis following something I have tried. I make Acronis images daily and restore
daily - sometimes numerous times.

Fortunately the day I loaded Acronis 6 - made an image - restored that image -
I had not yet discovered this site and had no idea how dangerous my first system restore might have been. Since then it has been the only image I have relied upon. I now have FD-ISR on one machine but I still have an ATI image just in case I need to go back to a "clean" system before I installed FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}
Same to me. ATI version 6 never failed, it was free. BTW paragon,s recent free offer worked well also.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I agree that SP must do this. It,s not good IMO. <-QUOTE}
That's what I'm trying to tell. A user paid $70 to get a restoration and nothing else.
If you recommend SP to someone, you better tell him that he has to know how to create partitions in case he needs to restore on a harddisk without or damaged partitions. SP is obvious not for everybody. :)

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> That's what I'm trying to tell. A user paid $70 to get a restoration and nothing else.
If you recommend SP to someone, you better tell him that he has to know how to create partitions in case he needs to restore on a harddisk without or damaged partitions. SP is obvious not for everybody. :) <-QUOTE}

Tell me which imaging software IS for everybody !

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Tell me which imaging software IS for everybody ! <-QUOTE}
lol your right there is none which will work for everyone.
an imaging app cant be compatible with al software.
lodore

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Tell me which imaging software IS for everybody ! <-QUOTE}
Image Backup is in principle a simple software, you always have a source and a destination for backup and restore, the rest makes it more complicated : compression, encryption, mount, dismount, schedules, etc...
I guess most average users prefer a full restore, rather than learning how to restore one file.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> You can whitewash anything with a reasonable explanation.
The bottom line is that SP can't restore images if the partition isn't there or damaged, while this is not a problem for ATI.
I've done this several times and ATI restored without creating partitions.
I'm not defending ATI, I'm just telling my experience.

What you are telling is that there are two kinds of Image Backups :
1. one for professionals and
2. one for housewives.
I thought Image Backup was for everybody, obvious not. :) <-QUOTE}

Erik, you need to go back and read my kill disk posts. Acronis not only couldn't restore the disk after the killdisk attack, it didn't even show any evidence of being there.

ATI can't restore a disk without the partition being there either. It's just it gets the partition info from the image and does it transparently for you where as Shadowprotect has a couple of options so it requires an input.

Sure there are different programs for professionals vs housewives. Home folks generally don't do servers and have different concerns.

Obviously you now feel Acronis is better for you. I'd stick with it.

Pete

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> BTW then what u mean by this in ur first post:
{QUOTE-> Of course all the partition letters were wrong or gone, but I'm used to this because ATI has the same problem. <-QUOTE} <-QUOTE}
Eric, u did not reply this.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter from your posts I can only assume "some of the stuff you have done".

I hope you will trust me when I say that my machines fail to boot on a regular basis following something I have tried. I make Acronis images daily and restore
daily - sometimes numerous times.

Fortunately the day I loaded Acronis 6 - made an image - restored that image -
I had not yet discovered this site and had no idea how dangerous my first system restore might have been. Since then it has been the only image I have relied upon. I now have FD-ISR on one machine but I still have an ATI image just in case I need to go back to a "clean" system before I installed FD-ISR. <-QUOTE}

Don't know if you saw my post in the Leapfrog forum, but last night I shut off my APC unit, thinking the puter had finished shutting down. Ouch. System wouldn't boot into either FDISR snapshot. Image to the rescue.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Image Backup is in principle a simple software, you always have a source and a destination for backup and restore, the rest makes it more complicated : compression, encryption, mount, dismount, schedules, etc...
I guess most average users prefer a full restore, rather than learning how to restore one file.[/QUOT

its my understanding that imagingsoftwares like acronis,ghost and SP are the most complicated rocketscience makes you can get,and its up to the vendors to let all that stuff flow into a simple and transparant userinterface,for me for now SP can't do any better cause on my rigs it works like a charm !

[lodore]

{QUOTE->
its my understanding that imagingsoftwares like acronis,ghost and SP are the most complicated rocketscience makes you can get,and its up to the vendors to let all that stuff flow into a simple and transparant userinterface,for me for now SP can't do any better cause on my rigs it works like a charm ! <-QUOTE}
your right disc imaging does sound simple but in reality it must be hard.
with hot imaging its even harder, you have got to image the whole disc/partistion with services and programs running and still make a perfect copy of it.
then the other problem is driver support.
alot of the time people have to create bartpe cd's to get the extra driver support.
alot of adverage home users will go to pc world buy norton ghost and make an image e.g. weekly.
they wont ever try the recovery cd until windows wont boot.
if the recovery cd misses a driver they are stuffed.
lodore

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
ATI can't restore a disk without the partition being there either. It's just it gets the partition info from the image and does it transparently for you where as Shadowprotect has a couple of options so it requires an input.
<-QUOTE}
As I already said in this thread. ATI restores everything on a disk, even when it has been zero-ed. I've told this numerous times at Wilders.
If you don't believe me :
1. take a full backup with ATI.
2. zero your harddisk
3. restore that image.

Try the same with SP and you will see the difference.
Don't you remember my torture tests of ATI anymore ?
I only create partitions with Windows, not with an Image Backup Software and that happens only during the installation of Windows.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
its my understanding that imagingsoftwares like acronis,ghost and SP are the most complicated rocketscience makes you can get,and its up to the vendors to let all that stuff flow into a simple and transparant userinterface,for me for now SP can't do any better cause on my rigs it works like a charm ! <-QUOTE}
I had no problems with understanding ATI, but I had alot of problems with understanding BING/IFD/IFW. I don't have a problem with understanding SP either, it looks like ATI with of course differences.
You just copy data from one disk to another disk, it's like copy/paste in both directions, From A to B (= backup) or from B to A (= restore). What is so difficult to understand about that.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Eric, u did not reply this. <-QUOTE}
I already answered that question. Did you never test your own backup software. ?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> As I already said in this thread. ATI restores everything on a disk, even when it has been zero-ed. I've told this numerous times at Wilders.
If you don't believe me :
1. take a full backup with ATI.
2. zero your harddisk
3. restore that image.

Try the same with SP and you will see the difference.
Don't you remember my torture tests of ATI anymore ?
I only create partitions with Windows, not with an Image Backup Software and that happens only during the installation of Windows. <-QUOTE}

Erik. I believe you. I've done it with Acronis, but I also do it with ShadowProtect. I have similar options in both. You can delete the partitions or not. Whether you realize it or not, if you zero your disk, and just restore with Acronis, it did indeed rebuild the partition. That's a fact.

Both programs do the same thing. Just differences in menu type items.

Let me repeat. Both ATI and SP can take a zero'd hard drive, and restore everything, MBR,Track 0 and partitions.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
Let me repeat. Both ATI and SP can take a zero'd hard drive, and restore everything, MBR,Track 0 and partitions. <-QUOTE}
Of course they can, but SP requires a partition repair first, done by the user.
You still don't see the difference or you don't want to see the difference.
You seem to have a hard time to admit this.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Of course they can, but SP requires a partition repair first, done by the user.
You still don't see the difference or you don't want to see the difference.
You seem to have a hard time to admit this. <-QUOTE}

No, there is nothing to admit. Assuming you wipe the disk, both programs must create the partition first. Acronis just takes the partition from the image and does it automatically. Shadow Protect doesn't, because it gives the user the option of creating the exact partition from the image or creating an extended partition. You see that as a flaw. But many to many users that is a useful feature.

If you don't like this feature, don't be critical of it, just don't use it.

Pete

[twl845]

Boy, I thought imaging was going to be easy. Now we're talking about creating partitions and zeroing my hard drive. As Erik says, consider me a housewife. LOL I don't have the knowledge to get into these gymnastics. I need an app that lets you check the C drive and click make image. Then click restore and it restores. Well, maybe not THAT simple but you get my point. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks.

[Rmus]

Check out Drive Image. When I used it years ago, it was very simple.

{QUOTE-> If it ain't broke don't fix it. <-QUOTE}If it ain't broke, you haven't tried hard enough :)

regards,

-rich

[EASTER.2010]

{QUOTE-> I had no problems with understanding ATI, but I had alot of problems with understanding BING/IFD/IFW. I don't have a problem with understanding SP either, it looks like ATI with of course differences.
You just copy data from one disk to another disk, it's like copy/paste in both directions, From A to B (= backup) or from B to A (= restore). What is so difficult to understand about that. <-QUOTE}

Odd. I also had no problems understanding True Image, it's just that it never understood what i wanted, or my machine/system, so it consistently refused to cooperate. Never got one restore to take with it. Made plenty of coasters though. ;D

Next, i wouldn't touch BING with a twelve foot pole, not that it isn't a great imaging app or anything at what it does, but that it looks too complicated and the GUI is rather flat IMO. I also don't get excited easy either over all those ADD-ONS they put up on their site. Why not combine everything into a single program. (Duh)

Norton Ghost, i gave 2002 a whirl and still have an almost new Ghost 2003 as a relic. Please don't ask, they didn't perform for me either.

ShadowProtect is a virtual newcomer in this field and i do hope they make a lot of good noise. Some results are already in that have my undivided attention, but it will take a ShadowProtect w/ Universal Restore feature to sway me from PARAGON! Especially after i'm getting ALL positive returns from it now.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Boy, I thought imaging was going to be easy. Now we're talking about creating partitions and zeroing my hard drive. As Erik says, consider me a housewife. LOL I don't have the knowledge to get into these gymnastics. I need an app that lets you check the C drive and click make image. Then click restore and it restores. Well, maybe not THAT simple but you get my point. Can you steer me in the right direction? Thanks. <-QUOTE}

It isn't complicated, even a housewife has to occasionally follow a recipe. Some people just don't want to have to do that. Isn't always realistic.

Pete

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I had no problems with understanding ATI, but I had alot of problems with understanding BING/IFD/IFW. I don't have a problem with understanding SP either, it looks like ATI with of course differences.
You just copy data from one disk to another disk, it's like copy/paste in both directions, From A to B (= backup) or from B to A (= restore). What is so difficult to understand about that. <-QUOTE}

You have problems understand my message,what i mean coding this tough stuff with with ease off usebility in mind is some challenge ( don't underestimate) were vendors has to deal with,its some sign that SP3 looks like ever delayed,its not easy to make this stuff work on millions different configurations with transtions from IDE to SATA and Duocores,Quadcores----Multicores you name it.To make hot imaging work for everyone is indeed a real challenge !!
We are already spoiled by the very good app. like Ati,Paragon and PS and ultimately there is not that much difference between them,if you Erik are oke with Ati than stay with it,i had many problems with Ati in the past so i switched over to PS and it works for me.

[Huupi]

sorry,in my post i mean SP not PS !!!

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> No, there is nothing to admit. Assuming you wipe the disk, both programs must create the partition first. Acronis just takes the partition from the image and does it automatically. Shadow Protect doesn't, because it gives the user the option of creating the exact partition from the image or creating an extended partition. You see that as a flaw. But many to many users that is a useful feature.

If you don't like this feature, don't be critical of it, just don't use it.

Pete <-QUOTE}
I'm only warning users in advance, that SP doesn't act like ATI, when a harddisk has no partitions or damaged partition.
For these users SP is a step back regarding restoration.

Suppose a user doesn't know this and he has 4 partitions on his harddisk and after years of normal restorations, he suddenly gets a message from SP that it can't restore the image, because the partitions are damaged or gone.
If he doesn't remember the size of these 4 partitions or he never wrote them down, he is in deep trouble.

You don't see this as a problem of course, because you think that everybody is like you.
I always look through the eyes of a less-knowledgeable user and these users expect from SP that it will restore images, even when the partitions are gone or damaged, that's why they paid $70 for it.

And don't tell twl845 that it isn't complicated, because it took me awhile to figure out what I had to do in SP, to get my partition back and I had only 1 partition. It would have been alot more complicated, if I had 4 partitions on the same harddisk. I was just LUCKY that I had a basic knowledge of partitioning and that's why I was able to fix a harddisk with ONE partitiion. If I didn't have that knowledge, I wouldn't be here anymore to write this post, because my computer would be dead. :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Suppose a user doesn't know this and he has 4 partitions on his harddisk and after years of normal restorations, he suddenly gets a message from SP that it can't restore the image, because the partitions are damaged or gone.
If he doesn't remember the size of these 4 partitions or he never wrote them down, he is in deep trouble. <-QUOTE}

Erik, a user doesn't suddenly get a message. He has to consciously delete the volume first. If you just put a check mark by the partition, it just restores it. Deleting the volume first is optional.

[twl845]

OK let me ask this question. I have no partitions on my C drive. Using an imaging app, can I produce an image of my C drive contents in my ext. Maxtor drive that is formated NTFS, and after a melt down, restore the image to my C drive? Question #2 Is zeroing your drive an option or a requirement? :)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> OK let me ask this question. I have no partitions on my C drive. Using an imaging app, can I produce an image of my C drive contents in my ext. Maxtor drive that is formated NTFS, and after a melt down, restore the image to my C drive? Question #2 Is zeroing your drive an option or a requirement? :) <-QUOTE}
You do have a partition on your harddisk called [C:] you just don't realize it because this partition C: is as big as your harddisk. This partition is created when you install Windows.

Most popular Image Backup software won't have a problem with backup and restoring, but you have to test it, which means not only backup but above all the restoration and one of my first tests is restoring an image on a zero-ed harddisk.

No you don't need to zero your harddisk, but I like to do this after a destructive malware attack or when I re-install Windows manually/image, so that no trace is left of any malware, simply because I don't know for sure how sneaky a malware can be, so I don't take any chances.
According my readings, I'm not the only one who zeroes his harddisk.

[twl845]

ErikAlbert, Thanks for the response. I think you answered my question. As to my first question above, you didn't mention if creating an image on my ext. drive and restoring from there wouldn't be a problem. I also need to know based on the last few posts, if I need to create partitions. I can't imagine why, but your posts with Pete left the question in my mind. If not, I guess I'm good to go. Sorry for all the questions but i've never dealved into imaging and it's a new concept for me. :blink:

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> ErikAlbert, Thanks for the response. I think you answered my question. As to my first question above, you didn't mention if creating an image on my ext. drive and restoring from there wouldn't be a problem. I also need to know based on the last few posts, if I need to create partitions. I can't imagine why, but your posts with Pete left the question in my mind. If not, I guess I'm good to go. Sorry for all the questions but i've never dealved into imaging and it's a new concept for me. :blink: <-QUOTE}
Backup and restore from an external harddisk is normally not a problem. I'm doing for at least a year.

I'm still trialing ShadowProtect, so my testing isn't done yet.
I will repeat my tests concerning zero-ed harddisks to see what you have to do MINIMUM to restore an image of a missing partition.
I won't be able to tell you what to do, if you have more than one partition on your harddisk, because I have only one partition on my harddisk.
Personally, I think it will be more work in SP to get these several partitions back, because they are all gone and SP will require some information, like the size of each partition, to restore them properly.

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> I also need to know based on the last few posts, if I need to create partitions. <-QUOTE}
If u don,t zero ur HD, I guess u will not need to create partitions as they will be already there, unless u want to change partition structure.
My guess.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> Backup and restore from an external harddisk is normally not a problem. I'm doing for at least a year.


I won't be able to tell you what to do, if you have more than one partition on your harddisk, because I have only one partition on my harddisk.
<-QUOTE}

Thanks for the ifo. As I mentioned I only have the C partition. :)

[flinchlock]

I am confused...

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1011059&postcount=30{QUOTE-> ATI can't restore a disk without the partition being there either. <-QUOTE}
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1011123&postcount=38{QUOTE-> Let me repeat. Both ATI and SP can take a zero'd hard drive, and restore everything, MBR,Track 0 and partitions. <-QUOTE}
Mike ???

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I am confused...

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1011059&postcount=30
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1011123&postcount=38
Mike ??? <-QUOTE}

Okay Mike. Erik was saying that SP needs to fix the partition table and that ATI doesn't. In ATI, if you delete the partition before restore, then ATI automatically restores it from the image. In SP if you delete the volume/partition, then you have to make an additional step. You can create the partition from the image, or create an extended partition.

That extra step and option are the difference.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

twl845,
Concerning ShadowProtect and zero-ed harddisk.
For restoration :
1. You first have to select the image on your external harddisk (= source). This is normal.
2. Then you have to select the destination disk which is in my case the system partition, but SP doesn't allow this. So it's useless to do this step.
3. Then you right-click on that disk and click on create primary partition, just one click that's all. This creates an unknown partition.
4. Then you can select the destination disk. From then everything is normal.
So the unknown partition is probably replaced by my system partition [C:]
So this is pretty easy, but this counts only for "one harddisk/one partition C:".

I don't know what you have to do, if your only harddisk has 4 partitions : C:, D:, E: and F:
One thing is sure, these partitions are all gone after zeroing your harddisk.

[pvsurfer]

Having never used SP I can't compare it with ATI, but I would just impart a basic but important suggestion to those on the fence between these two products (or any other disk-imaging products).

Evaluating before buying any software is always a good idea and that's especially true for disk-imaging programs because they don't always work the way they should with certain hardware configurations. And even if you find they are able to accomplish their end-goal with your specific hardware configurations, they all take a somewhat different approach, and one program's method of operation may fit your computing preferences better than the others!

Just my 2-cents worth... ;)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> twl845,
Concerning ShadowProtect and zero-ed harddisk.
For restoration :
1. You first have to select the image on your external harddisk (= source). This is normal.
2. Then you have to select the destination disk which is in my case the system partition, but SP doesn't allow this. So it's useless to do this step.
3. Then you right-click on that disk and click on create primary partition, just one click that's all. This creates an unknown partition.
4. Then you can select the destination disk. From then everything is normal.
So the unknown partition is probably replaced by my system partition [C:]
So this is pretty easy, but this counts only for "one harddisk/one partition C:".

I don't know what you have to do, if your only harddisk has 4 partitions : C:, D:, E: and F:
One thing is sure, these partitions are all gone after zeroing your harddisk. <-QUOTE}

Erik, it's an interesting question re more than one partition. Too tired tonight, but tomorrow, I will shrink my c: partitiono and create a 2nd one. THen will test and see what happens. I don't have any zeroing software, so i will just use diskpart and blow away the partition table. Then we shall see.

Will let you all know.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik, it's an interesting question re more than one partition. Too tired tonight, but tomorrow, I will shrink my c: partitiono and create a 2nd one. THen will test and see what happens. I don't have any zeroing software, so i will just use diskpart and blow away the partition table. Then we shall see.

Will let you all know.

Pete <-QUOTE}
OK Peter, I'm also very curious, because I expect that it won't be as easy as restoring ONE partition and users have often multiple patitions, if they have only one harddisk. Two is enough to get an idea how difficult it is.
According my readings DiskPart will have the same effect as my zero tool. :)

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> twl845,
Concerning ShadowProtect and zero-ed harddisk.
For restoration :
1. You first have to select the image on your external harddisk (= source). This is normal.
2. Then you have to select the destination disk which is in my case the system partition, but SP doesn't allow this. So it's useless to do this step.
3. Then you right-click on that disk and click on create primary partition, just one click that's all. This creates an unknown partition.
4. Then you can select the destination disk. From then everything is normal.
So the unknown partition is probably replaced by my system partition [C:]
So this is pretty easy, but this counts only for "one harddisk/one partition C:".

I don't know what you have to do, if your only harddisk has 4 partitions : C:, D:, E: and F:
One thing is sure, these partitions are all gone after zeroing your harddisk. <-QUOTE}

Hi Erik, A question on your last two sentences above. Of course I have my local disk C: and under that in My Computer is my Devices with Removable Storage - Floppy Drive A:, DVD Drive D:, and DVD/CD-RW Drive E:
In your last sentence where you say "One thing for sure, these partitions are all gone after zeroing your hard disk", are you refering to these drives? Or are you refering to additional partitions that were made? Or both? Thanks for the detailed instructions above.:)

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Erik, A question on your last two sentences above. Of course I have my local disk C: and under that in My Computer is my Devices with Removable Storage - Floppy Drive A:, DVD Drive D:, and DVD/CD-RW Drive E:
In your last sentence where you say "One thing for sure, these partitions are all gone after zeroing your hard disk", are you refering to these drives? Or are you refering to additional partitions that were made? Or both? Thanks for the detailed instructions above.:) <-QUOTE}
With zero tools you are completely in control, because YOU select what needs to be zero-ed. Not every zero tool can zero diskettes or CD/DVD's, they are usually used for harddisks.
My zero tool can only zero Western Digital Raptor Harddisks and nothing else.
So you don't have to worry about zero tools.

A destructive malware however can damage anything and it depends on how it is programmed by the evil programmer. The killdisk virus for instance destroys only your harddisk C, including the partitions on C and there are probably more malwares, that do similar things.
Only a good security setup can avoid this.

As long you backup every day, you will only lose your updatings of TODAY, because your backup is always from YESTERDAY.
If you want to reduce the risk of losing your updatings of TODAY, you have to put your data on another harddisk, like I did. If a malware targets all my harddisks, then I will lose my updatings of TODAY too.

[EASTER.2010]

{QUOTE-> Having never used SP I can't compare it with ATI, but I would just impart a basic but important suggestion to those on the fence between these two products (or any other disk-imaging products).

Evaluating before buying any software is always a good idea and that's especially true for disk-imaging programs because they don't always work the way they should with certain hardware configurations. And even if you find they are able to accomplish their end-goal with your specific hardware configurations, they all take a somewhat different approach, and one program's method of operation may fit your computing preferences better than the others!

Just my 2-cents worth... ;) <-QUOTE}

Truer words couldn't be said. LoL

It's obvious some imaging apps work great for some where others find them disasterous at best. I know a lot is said about the overflowing daily issues in the Acronis Forums, but in all honesty, a good percentage of those users who purchased likely done it on a whim. Then when True Image fails them, it's usually a complete disaster for them. Another point i would like to add. When trialing IMAGING apps, it's safest NOT to do any experiements on your active machine, another machine is best or at least a partition so you don't join the ranks of "Acronis Made Me Have To Reformat" cry often heard. The same applies for any other product. This IMAGING field is still yet not a perfected science by any stretch, although it is getting much better than before.

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> When trialing IMAGING apps, it's safest NOT to do any experiements on your active machine, another machine is best or at least a partition so you don't join the ranks of "Acronis Made Me Have To Reformat" cry often heard. The same applies for any other product. <-QUOTE}

Agree completely - BUT - if everyone followed your advice the level of posts might drop to such an extent that forums would close and then were would we be ? People would revert to installing untried and untested software on their buggy work machines...........blaming the software and looking for a forum for help.

:wacko:
:'(

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> With zero tools you are completely in control, because YOU select what needs to be zero-ed. Not every zero tool can zero diskettes or CD/DVD's, they are usually used for harddisks.
My zero tool can only zero Western Digital Raptor Harddisks and nothing else.
So you don't have to worry about zero tools.

A destructive malware however can damage anything and it depends on how it is programmed by the evil programmer. The killdisk virus for instance destroys only your harddisk C, including the partitions on C and there are probably more malwares, that do similar things.
Only a good security setup can avoid this.

As long you backup every day, you will only lose your updatings of TODAY, because your backup is always from YESTERDAY.
If you want to reduce the risk of losing your updatings of TODAY, you have to put your data on another harddisk, like I did. If a malware targets all my harddisks, then I will lose my updatings of TODAY too. <-QUOTE}

Thanks for that info. I think I'm going to change my plans a bit. I found a thread to a link where I can get a copy of ATI 10 made for Seagate HD's. It's a limited copy in that you can't do incrementles or do single files, only full back ups. It's also free. I understand it provides a link to a 40% discount on a full copy too, so either way I can't lose. As soon as I check out the users manual for a while I'll install it. More later....

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Truer words couldn't be said. LoL
Then when True Image fails them, it's usually a complete disaster for them. Another point i would like to add. When trialing IMAGING apps, it's safest NOT to do any experiements on your active machine, another machine is best or at least a partition so you don't join the ranks of "Acronis Made Me Have To Reformat" cry often heard. The same applies for any other product. This IMAGING field is still yet not a perfected science by any stretch, although it is getting much better than before. <-QUOTE}
I don't agree with this. I have at this moment TWO Image Backup softwares on my computer : ATI + ShadowProtect.
If ShadowProtect fails during tests, I restore my computer back with ATI.
Not everybody has two computers at home to test any software.
That's the purpose of Image Backup : save your computer, when something goes wrong during testing.
Of course many users don't trust restorations, because they never tested their Image Backup software thoroughly like I did.
I do my restorations without fear, because I know in advance that the restoration will be successfull.
ATI does it always right since March 2006. Besides this is totally off topic and has nothing to do with this thread.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> I don't agree with this. I have at this moment TWO Image Backup softwares on my computer : ATI + ShadowProtect.
If ShadowProtect fails during tests, I restore my computer back with ATI.
Not everybody has two computers at home to test any software.
That's the purpose of Image Backup : save your computer, when something goes wrong during testing.
Of course many users don't trust restorations, because they never tested their Image Backup software thoroughly like I did.
I do my restorations without fear, because I know in advance that the restoration will be successfull.
ATI does it always right since March 2006. Besides this is totally off topic and has nothing to do with this thread. <-QUOTE}

hi erik, SP came to the rescue to save me from ATI disaster,and i am glad to find at last these SP cause my history off trialing imaging softwares was a long painfull experience.and off now i have some peace off mind.

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> I don't agree with this. I have at this moment TWO Image Backup softwares on my computer : ATI + ShadowProtect.
If ShadowProtect fails during tests, I restore my computer back with ATI.
Not everybody has two computers at home to test any software.
That's the purpose of Image Backup : save your computer, when something goes wrong during testing.
Of course many users don't trust restorations, because they never tested their Image Backup software thoroughly like I did.
I do my restorations without fear, because I know in advance that the restoration will be successfull.
ATI does it always right since March 2006. Besides this is totally off topic and has nothing to do with this thread. <-QUOTE}
not everyone has the space for the backup images of both.
i am in that posistion.
i only have one 100gb external harddrive.
i can only store one image.
i might buy a bigger drive soon.
lodore

[EASTER.2010]

{QUOTE-> I don't agree with this. I have at this moment TWO Image Backup softwares on my computer : ATI + ShadowProtect.
If ShadowProtect fails during tests, I restore my computer back with ATI.
Not everybody has two computers at home to test any software. <-QUOTE}

Exactly my point Erik. You seem to have had such resounding success with Acronis, so if it's proven to been that so reliable for you as you suggest..........

{QUOTE-> I do my restorations without fear, because I know in advance that the restoration will be successfull. <-QUOTE}

.....Then why turn now to another imaging app in ShadowProtect?
Is your admiration and complete trust in Acronis been shaken?...or do we sense some hidden reluctance on your part that you're not exactly as confident in Acronis as you would have had us to believe all along?

[ErikAlbert]

I'm waiting for Peter's results, this thread is not about good and bad Image Backup softwares and your personal experiences.

[EASTER.2010]

Then you admit then. Just like me, and probably a lot others, if Shadow Protect can pull off even more advantages while carrying out completely successful images & restores, which i hear also is done in record time? :o

I'm a huge and long time PARAGON believer which at the start i was in a very small minority of users of it. Now it's steadily progressed where many like myself highly depend on it and have experienced results enough to claim it as one of the top ticket items in this product line.

My interest in Shadow Protect, among some other benefits claimed, is the Universal Restore feature. Also it will have to priced right for ALL clients, including the lowly home user which most companys claim are but a small percentage of their takes with software programs.

[Peter2150]

On the test an update while I hold my breath.

First I imaged the system, and tested the image by restoring. All well.

Then I created two extra partitions and put stuff in them.

Then booted my BartePe disk and imaged both with Acronis and Shadowprotect.

On acronis, I checked Disk which checked all three partitions. It ran one process and created on set of imgae files.

On Shadowprotect there is no disk option, so I checked all three partitions. It essentially ran 3 different tasks all at once creating separate files for each partition.

Then I loaded up Acronis Disk Director, and did an edit on the partition table putting in all zero's(just like I did with the editor in IT edition of SP). I also unchecked the little boot box.

Then I rebooted to reload the bartpe disk and it bluescreened. Oops. So at this point I went to the shadowprotect disk, and first tried the older legacy environment(winpe). It also bluescreened. Bigger Oops. Then I tried the recommended environment(vistape) and it just hung. Not Good.

Grabbed windows CD and booted it, and as it was booting, thought it would be smarted to try the system recovery CD first. Never used it before and was surprised to see it was good old IFD(don't laugh). Realizing that I aborted, and grabbed a IFD disk I made when I first got the system.

I am now looking at a successful green box so we shall see what we have.

I'll be back.

[flinchlock]

FYI...

Tools for MBR/Boot Records and References (http://mirror.href.com/thestarman/asm/mbr/BootToolsRefs.htm)

{QUOTE-> 3. ZAP63.zip (just 3kb) is an Assembly program which uses INT13 to 'zero-out' every byte of the first 63 sectors of any hard drive you choose.
( MD5 sum of ZAP.COM = 1f78bd078613b771fc5f00075e89dfd1 ). <-QUOTE}
Mike

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Not everybody has two computers at home to test any software. <-QUOTE}
Welcome to Virtual Machines :thumb:

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> On the test an update while I hold my breath.

First I imaged the system, and tested the image by restoring. All well.

Then I created two extra partitions and put stuff in them.

Then booted my BartePe disk and imaged both with Acronis and Shadowprotect.

On acronis, I checked Disk which checked all three partitions. It ran one process and created on set of imgae files.

On Shadowprotect there is no disk option, so I checked all three partitions. It essentially ran 3 different tasks all at once creating separate files for each partition.

Then I loaded up Acronis Disk Director, and did an edit on the partition table putting in all zero's(just like I did with the editor in IT edition of SP). I also unchecked the little boot box.

Then I rebooted to reload the bartpe disk and it bluescreened. Oops. So at this point I went to the shadowprotect disk, and first tried the older legacy environment(winpe). It also bluescreened. Bigger Oops. Then I tried the recommended environment(vistape) and it just hung. Not Good.

Grabbed windows CD and booted it, and as it was booting, thought it would be smarted to try the system recovery CD first. Never used it before and was surprised to see it was good old IFD(don't laugh). Realizing that I aborted, and grabbed a IFD disk I made when I first got the system.

I am now looking at a successful green box so we shall see what we have.

I'll be back. <-QUOTE}
Quite a BSOD-adventure.
What if you backup each partition apart ?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Quite a BSOD-adventure.
What if you backup each partition apart ? <-QUOTE}

Arg. Operation was a success, but patient died. Has anyone ever seen a BSOD when booting from a Windows CD. Thats what I am seeing. Says Plug and Play detected and error most lilkely caused by a faulty driver. Hmm.

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Arg. Operation was a success, but patient died. Has anyone ever seen a BSOD when booting from a Windows CD. Thats what I am seeing. Says Plug and Play detected and error most lilkely caused by a faulty driver. Hmm. <-QUOTE}


and al the dudes who pushed you to do these things,feel sorry for you !

[ErikAlbert]

That was the purpose of the test.
Trying something to restore that is very possible in practice : one harddisk with 3 partitions : C, D and E.
Some users separate their data files from system files and create on their only harddisk at least TWO partitions :
1. System partition [C:] = Windows + Applications (+ FDISR)
2. Data partition [D:] = personal files, emails, ...
The restoration of both partitions failed with ATI and SP, which means high time for Paragon users to test this also, if they have the courage. :)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> and al the dudes who pushed you to do these things,feel sorry for you ! <-QUOTE}

He didn't push me into anything I didn't want to do. I think this is another case off a badly screwed up partition table that windows just flat can't handle. If windows bsod's then nothing will help. IFD restores but to no avail, because it doesn't restore mbr or track0 stuff, so it restores, but doesn't work.

I am off to download Western Digitals zeroing utility(Erik don't you dare laugh).

These are learning and confidence building experiences.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> That was the purpose of the test.
Trying something to restore that is very possible in practice : one harddisk with 3 partitions : C, D and E.
Some users separate their data files from system files and create on their only harddisk at least TWO partitions :
1. System partition [C:] = Windows + Applications (+ FDISR)
2. Data partition [D:] = personal files, emails, ...
The restoration of both partitions failed with ATI and SP, which means high time for Paragon users to test this also, if they have the courage. :) <-QUOTE}

Actually Erik what failed was either Acronis Disk Director, but most likely the way I used it. Never got a chance to put ATI or SP to the test.

[ErikAlbert]

Peter,
My zero tool is only for my type of harddisks (WD Raptors), it's not a general zero tool.
Why didn't you try DiskPart ?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
These are learning and confidence building experiences. <-QUOTE}
You got that right. It's better to know this IN ADVANCE, than having this problem, when you really need it.

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> ....When trialing IMAGING apps, it's safest NOT to do any experiements on your active machine, another machine is best or at least a partition so you don't join the ranks of "Acronis Made Me Have To Reformat" cry often heard. The same applies for any other product. This IMAGING field is still yet not a perfected science by any stretch, although it is getting much better than before. <-QUOTE}
Sooner or later, you have to 'bite the bullet' and do a thorough eval on the PC on which the disk-image program is intended to be used. Unless your Test PC and Primary PC are identically configured (OS, motherboard and ALL components), a disk-imaging program could very well work on one's 'testbed' but not on the primary PC!

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> That was the purpose of the test.
Trying something to restore that is very possible in practice : one harddisk with 3 partitions : C, D and E.
Some users separate their data files from system files and create on their only harddisk at least TWO partitions :
1. System partition [C:] = Windows + Applications (+ FDISR)
2. Data partition [D:] = personal files, emails, ...
The restoration of both partitions failed with ATI and SP, which means high time for Paragon users to test this also, if they have the courage. :) <-QUOTE}
As with most laptops mine has but 1 HDD, so when I bought it a year ago I partitioned it into C:, D: and E: to separate my OS & Programs (C) from my Data & Docs (D) and Music & Photos (E). Since then I have successfully used ATI to image and restore all 3 partitions (Entire Disk) on a few occaissions... I can't understand Pete's difficulty in accomplishing the same thing with ATI, but it would be very interesting to discover why!

At this time, I only have a single partition HDD on my test system (with PHDM 8.5 installed), but over this weekend I will use PHDM to create 2 additional partitions on that drive and see if PHDM can successfully image and restore them.

[Banshee]

{QUOTE-> Arg. Operation was a success, but patient died. Has anyone ever seen a BSOD when booting from a Windows CD. Thats what I am seeing. Says Plug and Play detected and error most lilkely caused by a faulty driver. Hmm. <-QUOTE}

I sure did when my pc kicked the bucket 2 months ago.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> As with most laptops mine has but 1 HDD, so when I bought it a year ago I partitioned it into C:, D: and E: to separate my OS & Programs (C) from my Data & Docs (D) and Music & Photos (E). Since then I have successfully used ATI to image and restore all 3 partitions (Entire Disk) on a few occaissions... I can't understand Pete's difficulty in accomplishing the same thing with ATI, but it would be very interesting to discover why!
<-QUOTE}
Peter didn't even get to ATI or SP for restoration, he had another problem.
So we still don't know if SP can handle such situation.
Peter was also planning to try ATI, but ATI wasn't included in my request, but I don't mind about that, because ATI must also prove itself.
According you ATI can handle such a situation and that's what I expected.

The test with multiple partitions should be done in two separate tests :
1. First with restoration of the whole harddisk.
2. Then with restoration of each partition separately.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter,
My zero tool is only for my type of harddisks (WD Raptors), it's not a general zero tool.
Why didn't you try DiskPart ? <-QUOTE}

This is almost(not quite) getting comical. Can't use DiskPart, because the Windows CD bsod's before it gets that far. Downloaded the appropriate zeroing tool from WD, but it can't see the drives because of the nvidia drivers.

And you are so right. One clear lesson. I was able to clear up a problem with the Partition editor in the IT edition SP. But never again will I go near the one in Acronis Disk Director. Ouch.

Good to find all this out with time to kill.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter didn't even get to ATI or SP for restoration, he had another problem.
So we still don't know if SP can handle such situation.
Peter was also planning to try ATI, but ATI wasn't included in my request, but I don't mind about that, because ATI must also prove itself.
According you ATI can handle such a situation and that's what I expected.

The test with multiple partitions should be done in two separate tests :
1. First with restoration of the whole harddisk.
2. Then with restoration of each partition separately. <-QUOTE}

Actually I can almost know the results now. With ATI I bet I could have selected the whole disk for restore, and then all partitions would be restored.

With SP they get done individually, although I bet a job can be setup that does them all, like the imaging.

If I am right, then note to grnxmn with a feature request.

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Downloaded the appropriate zeroing tool from WD, but it can't see the drives because of the nvidia drivers.
geez my pc is based on nforce 3 and has nvidia storage controller.....
and a slicon image raid controller.
didnt you say the shadow protect desktop v2 recovery cd couldnt see the drives due to the nvidia storage controller?
if so the paragon winpe cd wont see my drivers since i have nvidia storage controllers.
i will have to ask paragon to add the nvidia storage controller drivers to the winpe cd for me.
lodore

[ErikAlbert]

Maybe Darik's Boot and Nuke can wipe the harddisk :
http://dban.sourceforge.net/features.html

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> {QUOTE-> Downloaded the appropriate zeroing tool from WD, but it can't see the drives because of the nvidia drivers.
geez my pc is based on nforce 3 and has nvidia storage controller.....
and a slicon image raid controller.
didnt you say the shadow protect desktop v2 recovery cd couldnt see the drives due to the nvidia storage controller?
if so the paragon winpe cd wont see my drivers since i have nvidia storage controllers.
i will have to ask paragon to add the nvidia storage controller drivers to the winpe cd for me.
lodore <-QUOTE}


That is correct. It was a real mess getting the right drivers.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Maybe Darik's Boot and Nuke can wipe the harddisk :
http://dban.sourceforge.net/features.html <-QUOTE}

I got the partitions deleted, and no more BSOD's. Only issue left now before restore is secondary drive has changed from D to C. Hmm.

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> Peter didn't even get to ATI or SP for restoration, he had another problem.
So we still don't know if SP can handle such situation.
Peter was also planning to try ATI, but ATI wasn't included in my request, but I don't mind about that, because ATI must also prove itself.
According you ATI can handle such a situation and that's what I expected. <-QUOTE}
Oops, somehow I misunderstood that... But I can assure you that ATI does the job 100% (that is with the version of ATI on my laptop)!

{QUOTE-> The test with multiple partitions should be done in two separate tests :
1. First with restoration of the whole harddisk.
2. Then with restoration of each partition separately. <-QUOTE}
I will try both methods as you suggest, but won't get to it until tomorrow (at the very earliest) as I first have to first backup my test system's single partition, create the additional partitions and then populate them.

[EASTER.2010]

If you can get a hold of the Hiren's Boot CD 8.9 i use Active KillDisk to Zero all my Hard Drives with it. Theres an option to write randoms too which i use before writing zeros. Works.

[Peter2150]

Phew. Well back to normal.

1st. Acronis Disk Director Partition Editor can be deadly

2nd. BootitNG was the real hero. I was able to delete the screwed up partitions, and the restored my SP image

3rd. Although the drive letters got messed up a bit in the recovery environment, all was fine once I booted into windows.

Easter, I might check out that disk. Only problem is will it see my drives without the drivers.

The real scary part about all this, is that when I was messing with the killdisk trojan it messed up the partition table, but I was able to boot to the windows CD and use Diskpart. This time it was so bad, even the Windows CD bsod'd. Man if grnxmn hadn't clued me in to the use of MS routines to access the partition table, and how they couldn't handle corrupt tables, i wouldn't have had a clue as to what was even going on.

Although this was a 8 hour exercise, I at least learned how to handle what could be a disaster if it happened without my knowledge, at a time when repair was critical.

Thanks to all who made suggestions. We all learned something.

Pete

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> If you can get a hold of the Hiren's Boot CD 8.9 i use Active KillDisk to Zero all my Hard Drives with it. Theres an option to write randoms too which i use before writing zeros. Works. <-QUOTE}

Couldn't find where to either download or buy. I wouldn't buy without trying as if it isn't a windows environment, odds are it wouldn't work for me. Nvidia drivers again.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
I will try both methods as you suggest, but won't get to it until tomorrow (at the very earliest) as I first have to first backup my test system's single partition, create the additional partitions and then populate them. <-QUOTE}
The main reason why you should test the restoration of each partition separately, is this :
A user usually creates two partitions, because his data partition requires a daily backup, while his system partition only requires a backup when it has been changed, but that doesn't happen every day.
This means also that he doesn't have to restore both partitions, if only his system partition needs to be restored and that saves backup/restore time.
You were smart, because you created a third partition to store graphical files, which also increase the backup/restore time significantly.
I didn't need a third partition because I'm not interested in graphical files.

Of course it also depends on how big the volumes of each partition are.

[EASTER.2010]

On my 200 Gb Maxtor i have it sectioned into 3 partitions. The system partition C:\ (80Gb w/ 49.9% UsedSpace/Data), with MBR backs up and restores great with Paragon Drive BackUp Pro. I tested this yesterday, all day long. Also another partition of lesser amount done very well also. But i have one partition that throws up an error in Paragon every single attempt just barely into it at (2.31Gb) to a 32.7Gb image. I'm still looking into this matter and have questioned support for an answer or solution. At least my MAIN system goes off without a hitch.

Now the coop de gras will be to IMAGE the entire drive partitions and all and restore, several times. I am always greatly suspicious if just a single glitch or error rears it's ugly head and throws me into a complete panic. :o

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> On my 200 Gb Maxtor i have it sectioned into 3 partitions. The system partition C:\ (80Gb w/ 49.9% UsedSpace/Data), with MBR backs up and restores great with Paragon Drive BackUp Pro. I tested this yesterday, all day long. Also another partition of lesser amount done very well also. But i have one partition that throws up an error in Paragon every single attempt just barely into it at (2.31Gb) to a 32.7Gb image. I'm still looking into this matter and have questioned support for an answer or solution. At least my MAIN system goes off without a hitch.

Now the coop de gras will be to IMAGE the entire drive partitions and all and restore, several times. I am always greatly suspicious if just a single glitch or error rears it's ugly head and throws me into a complete panic. :o <-QUOTE}

What could possibly go wrong.::) ;D ::)

[EASTER.2010]

{QUOTE-> What could possibly go wrong.::) ;D ::) <-QUOTE}

Well Pete, for me anyway, pc matters of critical importance such as imaging are improving much more than i been accustomed to in the past. In reality, enough time is passed where imaging programs have been able to overcome plenty of obstacles in XP. Now they have a whole 'nother hurdle to cross in Vista.

Speaking but briefly on Vista slightly OT, I already collected plenty of freelance developers latest creations, and not just those mediocre at best Vista Transformation Packs, but COMPLETE Vista features, graphical one's specifically, that been ported over very nicely to XP whereby my XP Pro has all the trappings as a Vista so far as looks without adding too many additional programs. The only enhancement lacking is the Flip 3-D. TopDesk doesn't do it for me, so i'm waiting to see what other alternatives surface. The Vista appearances and sounds are pretty cool though. I finally don't have to look at that silly flag anymore in IE but a cool spinning wheel. :)

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> The main reason why you should test the restoration of each partition separately, is this :
A user usually creates two partitions, because his data partition requires a daily backup, while his system partition only requires a backup when it has been changed, but that doesn't happen every day.
This means also that he doesn't have to restore both partitions, if only his system partition needs to be restored and that saves backup/restore time.
You were smart, because you created a third partition to store graphical files, which also increase the backup/restore time significantly.
I didn't need a third partition because I'm not interested in graphical files.

Of course it also depends on how big the volumes of each partition
are. <-QUOTE}

i don't see any benefit to have more than one,incidentally my laptop came with only one,as long as you have your have personal data on more places......can't go wrong !

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> i don't see any benefit to have more than one <-QUOTE}

I have 3 partitions (1) Win Xp and programs - produces an image of 3.62 gb
(2) data - image 9.5 gb (3) 3 space for 3 system images.

data and extra system images are kept on external drives and off site.

I always have 3 system images on the 3rd partition - using Acronis it take 6 minutes for a full image ( typically made while having coffee first thing in the morning) - restores take about 9 minutes.

For one reason or another I restore at least once or twice a day. Having to restore the whole drive ( including data) would take longer. Other machines ( I have 7 ) are configured differently ( using FD-ISR for example). Having one internal physical drive for OS + Programs, One physical drive for data for me is best but does cost more.

So for older one drive machines partitioning can have advantages

[Huupi]

a backup and restore my whole drive takes 20 min.i do this ones a week,for me thats not a problem,but i can see if you have that many rigs or in a corporate environment partitioning is the way to go cause lowering downtime.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> i don't see any benefit to have more than one,incidentally my laptop came with only one,as long as you have your have personal data on more places......can't go wrong ! <-QUOTE}
Different people, different opinions, different backgrounds. My brother and my sister don't even see the benefit of backup, just like other people don't see the benefit of separating their data files from system files and like to put their precious data in the most attacked partition [C:]. I know why I did it and that's enough for me. :)

[Huupi]

I think a stay well protected in spite off everything on C. I image allways C once a week. to stay current with pers. files i make separate backups daily with copies on two ext.drives.I may trash everything as long as my important data stay secure. i use Bootback and SP to recover if disaster strikes,what more can i do !?!

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I think a stay well protected in spite off everything on C. I image allways C once a week. to stay current with pers. files i make separate backups daily with copies on two ext.drives.I may trash everything as long as my important data stay secure. i use Bootback and SP to recover if disaster strikes,what more can i do !?! <-QUOTE}
The trouble with backup is that images/archives are always from YESTERDAY or OLDER, if you don't archive/backup every day.
As long nothing serious happens to your partition [C:] this doesn't matter.

If you have to restore your partition [C:] completely, than you will lose all your updatings of TODAY or worse. If your data is stored on another partition [D:], you won't lose these updatings of TODAY, no matter what happens to your partition [C:].
TODAY can be a long period of several hours of updatings.

[Huupi]

i don't mind to have images from over a week old or older they are a last resort if everything goes wrong,after a restore what i am missing in the restored image,software downloads,newest virusdef, M$ updates so what!!,i can put them back fast. my main concern is to keep my pers. data as pristine as possible,freqently updated and spread on different ext. locations,and sure you guess to restore without a hitch,there are many freeware app.out there who fit perfectly !

[Huupi]

Sorry,we drift away from topic,lets get right on track !

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> i don't see any benefit to have more than one,incidentally my laptop came with only one,as long as you have your have personal data on more places......can't go wrong ! <-QUOTE}

Me also. On my critical machine, I run an SP job, that takes incremental images every 15 minutes. They take an average of 5 seconds.

In fact look what a mess I got into by creating more partitions.;D ;D ;D

[flinchlock]

{QUOTE-> 1st. Acronis Disk Director Partition Editor can be deadly <-QUOTE}Can you explain this in a little more detail? A program problem? A user problem?

{QUOTE-> This time it was so bad, even the Windows CD bsod'd. Man if grnxmn hadn't clued me in to the use of MS routines to access the partition table, and how they couldn't handle corrupt tables, i wouldn't have had a clue as to what was even going on. <-QUOTE}So, assuming your PC has a floppy drive, even the "Windows 98 Startup Disk" fdisk /mbr would not work?

I assume there are Linux boot floppies that can do fdisk type activities, and they would probably work... right?

Mike

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Can you explain this in a little more detail? A program problem? A user problem?

So, assuming your PC has a floppy drive, even the "Windows 98 Startup Disk" fdisk /mbr would not work?

I assume there are Linux boot floppies that can do fdisk type activities, and they would probably work... right?

Mike <-QUOTE}

Hi Mike

On the first question I don't know. I used the partition editor in the IT edition of Shadowprotect and that zero'd out the table essentially deleting it and solved a problem. Did the same thing with Acronois disk director and ouch. Not even a warning.

I don't know about the Win98 disk. I need to be able to load the drivers for the nvidia raid or my disks are invisible. Fixmbr probably wouldn't have worked. I had a floppy with the mbr fix I made with FDISR. I ran it and it gave an error.

I downloaded WD's utilities for my disk, but again no raid drivers so no workie. Fortunately BootitNG came to the rescue.

And for anyone reading this NO, I will not repeat this experience to test other recovery solutions.;D ;D ;D

Pete

[flinchlock]

{QUOTE-> And for anyone reading this NO, I will not repeat this experience to test other recovery solutions.;D ;D ;D <-QUOTE}I see why you are a Global Moderator... mean! :P

Mike

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> I run an SP job, that takes incremental images every 15 minutes. They take an average of 5 seconds.

<-QUOTE}

what about time taken to restore ? or are you using FD-ISR so you use snapshots ? Unless you have very little data, or SP is very fast or.... then restoring must be slower.

In any event I just don't feel comfortable mixing OS/Programs and data. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of one physical hard drive ( 150 gig ) for OS and programs and another physical drive for data. no partitions but system and data keep apart. I would imagine that Acronis, Paragon or SP could be used equally well here depending upon preference.

[silver0066]

{QUOTE-> Actually Erik what failed was either Acronis Disk Director, but most likely the way I used it. Never got a chance to put ATI or SP to the test. <-QUOTE}Peter, I think that Disk Director must have been the culprit. It has resulted in BSOD's for me in the past. I was, however, able to recover with ATI.

[flinchlock]

{QUOTE-> Peter, I think that Disk Director must have been the culprit. <-QUOTE}Hmm, I see a pattern... Win98 trashed by DD (again) (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=175850) :o

Mike

[pvsurfer]

Ok, I tested PHDM 8.5 (and it turned out to be a major disappointment). Writing it up now....

[ErikAlbert]

flinchlock,
You see, we arrogant FDISR-users thought we were invincible with Image Backup.
But we are not. A simple test ended up in a total disaster of EIGHT hours.

This happened before you know, during a routine test at Tjernobil.

[pvsurfer]

What I did to test PHDM:

In order to reduce the number of variables in this test, I decided to first uninstall Rollback Rx. Then I backed-up the single 80 GB partition of the C-drive using ATI (from within Windows) and verified the image. This was a precautionary measure, just in case PHDM didn't do the job (as you will see, it's a good thing I did this)!

Next, I used PHDM to 'split' the single partition into 3 equally sized partitions. Leaving Windows and Programs on the C-partition, I moved My Documents Folder to the D-partition and copied some mp3 and jpg files to the E-partition. Creating the 3-partitions went smoothly and then (using PHDM from within Windows), I created and verified an image of the entire physical C-Drive, onto my external (Maxtor) USB2 drive. I then created and verified an image of each of the 3 individual partitions, onto the USB drive. Creation of all images went smoothly and Windows Explorer revealed all of the images I created on the USB drive.

I then formatted my test system's C-drive and afterwards booted the system using the PHDM Emergency Boot CD. That's when I started feeling sick to my stomach because although the PHDM Boot CD saw the test system's unformatted 80GB HDD, it did not see my USB drive! Repeated attempts brought the same problem, so there was no way I could restore any of the PHDM images from my USB drive. The only thing left for me to do was to try my ATI Boot CD and voila, there was my USB drive! Then ATI went on to successfully restore the entire C-drive image that it created earlier (without any problems whatsoever).

Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive, its restoration abilities are of no value to me. In a disaster-situation you have to be able to rely on the disk-image program's Emergency Boot CD, and PHDM's CD failed me in a disaster situation. I realize some others here do not have this problem with PHDM's Boot CD, but these types of issues are hardware-specific. :-\

Someday I'll test SP, but until I do, ATI continues to do the job for me (on each of my 3 systems)! :thumb:

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter, I think that Disk Director must have been the culprit. It has resulted in BSOD's for me in the past. I was, however, able to recover with ATI. <-QUOTE}

You know you are in real trouble when an official Windows XP CD BSOD's.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> what about time taken to restore ? or are you using FD-ISR so you use snapshots ? Unless you have very little data, or SP is very fast or.... then restoring must be slower.

In any event I just don't feel comfortable mixing OS/Programs and data. The more I think about it the more I like the idea of one physical hard drive ( 150 gig ) for OS and programs and another physical drive for data. no partitions but system and data keep apart. I would imagine that Acronis, Paragon or SP could be used equally well here depending upon preference. <-QUOTE}

Hi Longview

Yes the restore time was longer. How much was dependent on how many incrementals. Still nice having a place to roll back to during the day.

I've been running with one partition and everything on it, OS and Data for over 5 years. It has yet to cause me a single problem. It's a matter of preference.

[flinchlock]

{QUOTE-> Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive, its restoration abilities are of no value to me. <-QUOTE}VERY SORRY...

Hard Disk Manager 8.5 (http://www.paragon-software.com/hdm/home/personal/features.htm) => NO USB support.

Drive Backup 8.51 (http://drive-backup.com/corporate/professional/features){QUOTE-> Supports for USB and Fireware drives as well as in-built CD/DVD burner let you keep backup images on remote storage media.
Save backup image to remote USB or Fireware device <-QUOTE}
Mike

[Huupi]

{QUOTE-> Hi Longview

Yes the restore time was longer. How much was dependent on how many incrementals. Still nice having a place to roll back to during the day.

I've been running with one partition and everything on it, OS and Data for over 5 years. It has yet to cause me a single problem. It's a matter of preference. <-QUOTE}

Erik for a long time explained to death his preference for multipartitions up til recently,and yes it boils down in the end to pers.choice based on logic rather then evidence in real world experience,afterall majority off the wildersclan are homeusers.Another story is the corporate environment with hundred or thousends systems,partition here will pay cause imaging the systempartition is fast,everything else is backed up to dataservers 24/7.Here as well as in home environment as always, generated data is the most important,you can replace systemfiles but not pers.data !!

[ErikAlbert]

Huupi,
Two single partition users will certainly agree with eachother.
If you are not used to multiple partitions accidents can happen, that doesn't mean it is wrong.
At work with have applications enough that can't afford losing their updatings of today. Home users usually don't care about that.

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> What I did to test PHDM:

In order to reduce the number of variables in this test, I decided to first uninstall Rollback Rx. Then I backed-up the single 80 GB partition of the C-drive using ATI (from within Windows) and verified the image. This was a precautionary measure, just in case PHDM didn't do the job (as you will see, it's a good thing I did this)!

Next, I used PHDM to 'split' the single partition into 3 equally sized partitions. Leaving Windows and Programs on the C-partition, I moved My Documents Folder to the D-partition and copied some mp3 and jpg files to the E-partition. Creating the 3-partitions went smoothly and then (using PHDM from within Windows), I created and verified an image of the entire physical C-Drive, onto my external (Maxtor) USB2 drive. I then created and verified an image of each of the 3 individual partitions, onto the USB drive. Creation of all images went smoothly and Windows Explorer revealed all of the images I created on the USB drive.

I then formatted my test system's C-drive and afterwards booted the system using the PHDM Emergency Boot CD. That's when I started feeling sick to my stomach because although the PHDM Boot CD saw the test system's unformatted 80GB HDD, it did not see my USB drive! Repeated attempts brought the same problem, so there was no way I could restore any of the PHDM images from my USB drive. The only thing left for me to do was to try my ATI Boot CD and voila, there was my USB drive! Then ATI went on to successfully restore the entire C-drive image that it created earlier (without any problems whatsoever).

Since PHDM's Boot CD could not see my USB drive, its restoration abilities are of no value to me. In a disaster-situation you have to be able to rely on the disk-image program's Emergency Boot CD, and PHDM's CD failed me in a disaster situation. I realize some others here do not have this problem with PHDM's Boot CD, but these types of issues are hardware-specific. :-\

Someday I'll test SP, but until I do, ATI continues to do the job for me (on each of my 3 systems)! :thumb: <-QUOTE}

ironic since the ATI recovery cd's i have made dont even boot.
paragon recovery cd cant see my external drive so ive asked support to make me a winpe recovery cd for me.
if you have a full windows xp sp2 d you can create a bartpe cd with the paragon plugin.
that will see your external drive and be able to restore.
acronis has worse driver suport IMHO.
lodore

[Long View]

{QUOTE-> generated data is the most important,you can replace systemfiles but not pers.data !! <-QUOTE}

Huupi - I certainly agree that generated data is the most important thing. I keep images of data in a fire proof safe, on hand held external drives that travel with me, on external drives held off site, on write once DVD. Could if required restore data from CD Aug 1996, jazz drive from earlier or zip from the dark ages.

BUT I don't see how the importance of data supports the single partition argument. If anything the importance of data suggests that having several partitions ( or preferably several 2 hard drives ?) As Erik says - accidents do happen. But as Peter says - he has worked for 5 years without issue.

If I have read the posts though I get the impression that ATI handles partitions better ? At a practical level I can and do restore C: when half asleep. Can SH do the same as easily ? I don't know but unless it can restore C: and leave my other partitions alone it is a non starter. I droped Paragon simply because it required me to change drive labels. A program has to allow the user to operate the way the user wants to operate and not the other way round.

Even though the question of partition is a personal choice I have to say that on my fastest machine Acronis 10 can make a system image in 40 seconds and restore in under 2 minutes. Adding all my data to the image would slow things down somewhat and unnecessarily backup and restore data every time I wanted to trial software.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
BUT I don't see how the importance of data supports the single partition argument. If anything the importance of data suggests that having several partitions ( or preferably several 2 hard drives ?) As Erik says - accidents do happen. But as Peter says - he has worked for 5 years without issue.
<-QUOTE}
That's because Peter doesn't fool around with his harddisk until he has taken a full backup at the end of the day and then he can fool around with his harddisk.

I can fool around with my system partition at any moment, because my data is stored on another harddisk/partition.

[Peter2150]

The way my work has evolved one of the desktops has become the primary business machine. Everything equally valuable. Data, system, and programs.

My routine is let a scheduled Shadowprotect job run thru out the day capturing 15 minute incrementals. That way everything has been covered. At the end of the day, I sync all the data off to the other machine, and refresh the FDISR archive. Every other day I collapse the incrmentals.

I have thoroughly tested the incrementals taken during programs and data files being open. Not a problem, if a data file was open at the 12:15 image, then that image will restore the data as of the time it was opened. Works as advertised.

It really doesn't matter whether everything is all together. What really matters is you understand your needs, and your system, and plan for all the contingencies.

[Huupi]

BUT I don't see how the importance of data supports the single partition argument. If anything the importance of data suggests that having several partitions ( or preferably several 2 hard drives ?) As Erik says - accidents do happen. But as Peter says - he has worked for 5 years without issue.

If you read my earlier post carefully there is no favoring the single part.or against it,for me it just doesnt matter,my only concern is to diminish the change off destroying my pers. data so i make 3 copies from the same file and put it on 3 different ext. disks,just in case.......... thus everything important to me stay offside,after that moment i can shoot my rig,burn it,throw out off the window,struck by lightning, whatever,its all about pers.data,afterall i can buy me a new rig ,but i can't buy me data back.In normal everyday use i can screw up my windows and personal files on the int. harddisk,if that happen its relieving and comforteble thought that image restores never failed me (backup/restore 20 min.)and after restore i bring C:\ current with a data backup app. in a few minutes.

[ErikAlbert]

Huupi,
You backup your harddisk on 2007.05.27 at 5:00 PM

Next day 2007.05.28 you start working at 9:00 AM and at 4:00 PM you have to restore your harddisk due to a disaster (the cause doesn't matter).

So you restore your image from 2007.05.27 - 5:00 PM to get back in business, which is your LAST backup.

Where are the updates of 2007.05.28 from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
- you created 10 documents
- you received 20 emails
- you updated several databases
- etc.
Do you still think you have these updatings ? After all your personal data is very important, like you said.

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> ironic since the ATI recovery cd's i have made dont even boot.
paragon recovery cd cant see my external drive so ive asked support to make me a winpe recovery cd for me.
if you have a full windows xp sp2 d you can create a bartpe cd with the paragon plugin.
that will see your external drive and be able to restore.
acronis has worse driver suport IMHO.
lodore <-QUOTE}
Linux-based Boot CDs do leave a lot to be desired in terms of Windows-compatible drivers. It just goes to my earlier comment as to why it's so important to test everything about a disk-imaging program on the equipment that it is expected to protect and with the equipment which will store the images.

There's no question that a customized BartPE Boot CD (which is Windows-based) is the best method, but since ATI's Boot CD works just fine for my 3-systems (and my USB drive), I've never had a sense of urgency to create one!

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Linux-based Boot CDs do leave a lot to be desired in terms of Windows-compatible drivers. It just goes to my earlier comment as to why it's so important to test everything about a disk-imaging program on the equipment that it is expected to protect.

There's no question that a customized BartPE Boot CD (which is Windows-based) is the best method, but since ATI's Boot CD works just fine for my 3-systems (and my USB drive), I've never had a sense of urgency to create one! <-QUOTE}
lucky you that the acronis linux based cd you created booted.
none of the ten i made worked on eiether on my pc's
so if it works for you keep using it.
lodore

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> lucky you that the acronis linux based cd you created booted.
none of the ten i made worked on eiether on my pc's
so if it works for you keep using it.
lodore <-QUOTE}
Yes, I intend to continue using it (as long as it continues to do the job for me). Sorry that your experience with ATI was the opposite of mine ...it happens.

Anyhow, please let us know if Paragon ever comes through for you with that WinPE CD.

Good luck, pv

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Yes, I intend to continue using it (as long as it continues to do the job for me). Sorry that your experience with ATI was the opposite of mine ...it happens.

Anyhow, please let us know if Paragon ever comes through for you with that WinPE CD.

Good luck, pv <-QUOTE}
i will tell you if i get the winpe cd from paragon.
i should get a reply back from paragon about it tomorrow.
i will tell you if im successfull in getting one.
lodore

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> i will tell you if i get the winpe cd from paragon.
i should get a reply back from paragon about it tomorrow.
i will tell you if im successfull in getting one.
lodore <-QUOTE}
Please do, because if that does the trick I would like to get one as well. If Paragon is willing to furnish those to HDM users, I sure don't understand why they just don't start using them instead of their lame Linux CD (which doesn't work for either one of us)!

[lodore]

{QUOTE-> Please do, because if that does the trick I would like to get one as well. If Paragon is willing to furnish those to HDM users, I sure don't understand why they just don't start using them instead of their lame Linux CD (which doesn't work for either one of us)! <-QUOTE}
i couldnt agree more.
do what i did.
login in to support.
submit a report request saying e..g. the linux based recovery cd for HDM8.5 doesnt see my external usb drive.
they will reply there are two solutions custom winpe cd or custom bartpe cd.
say you would like them to make you a custom winpe cd.
thats what i have done so far.
i will see what they say tomorrow.
if i get the winpe cd i will surgest to them to get rid of the linux based recovery cd and give a winpe recovery cd for all there products.
lodore

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Huupi,
You backup your harddisk on 2007.05.27 at 5:00 PM

Next day 2007.05.28 you start working at 9:00 AM and at 4:00 PM you have to restore your harddisk due to a disaster (the cause doesn't matter).

So you restore your image from 2007.05.27 - 5:00 PM to get back in business, which is your LAST backup.

Where are the updates of 2007.05.28 from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM.
- you created 10 documents
- you received 20 emails
- you updated several databases
- etc.
Do you still think you have these updatings ? After all your personal data is very important, like you said. <-QUOTE}

Erik, one flaw in the logic. You are assuming the disk that fails will be the system disk. It could be the data disk. I've easily covered myself for the situation you describe, with just one c: partition. Scheduled images to both an internal and external drive another words two scheduled jobs running. That way if during the day 2nd internal drive fails, not big deal, if the c drive should go, admittedly the images on the 2nd drive would be of little value, but I can take the usb drive put it on the 2nd system, mount the image, and sync the data out of the image to the 2nd system.

Again, it's not the number of partitions or spliting up data, but having a plan for your situation that really matters.

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> ...Again, it's not the number of partitions or spliting up data, but having a plan for your situation that really matters. <-QUOTE}Having a plan is important and working the plan is even more important. However, adding my 2-cents to this subject, if you only have one HDD in your PC (which is the situation with most laptops), creating and using 2 or 3 partitions in a strategic manner can minimize risk and facilitate backups!

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Where are the updates of 2007.05.28 from 9:00 AM to 4:00 PM. <-QUOTE}One solution is to have a real-time backup to either a 2nd internal HD or external media.

My second HD is formatted as a single extended partition just for data. My principal program for documents is MSWord, and it's easy to set up a custom File|Save Macro to copy the file to another location.

I do the same with images in Photoshop, although I have to use a batch file to do the copying.

I do this for other reasons, but realize that it would be a solution for the scenario that you suggest: if the first HD failed between 9AM and 4PM you would have current backup copies of files created during that time period.

regards,

-rich

[EASTER.2010]

If you guys are going to dibble around with IMAGING and all that may i suggest a very simple precaution to spare yourselves trouble if your images foul up or anything else.

Get another EQUAL sized HARD DRIVE and "CLONE" everything including MBR/Partitions and all to it, then you're extra secured from loss.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik, one flaw in the logic. You are assuming the disk that fails will be the system disk. It could be the data disk. I've easily covered myself for the situation you describe, with just one c: partition. Scheduled images to both an internal and external drive another words two scheduled jobs running. That way if during the day 2nd internal drive fails, not big deal, if the c drive should go, admittedly the images on the 2nd drive would be of little value, but I can take the usb drive put it on the 2nd system, mount the image, and sync the data out of the image to the 2nd system.

Again, it's not the number of partitions or spliting up data, but having a plan for your situation that really matters. <-QUOTE}
I'm aware of this flaw, but which partition will most probably damaged ? The most attacked partition [C:], which is the target of most malwares.
Only when a malware targets all my harddisks, I will lose my updatings of today.
If only my system partition [C:] is damaged, I still have my data partition [D:] intact.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> One solution is to have a real-time backup to either a 2nd internal HD or external media.

My second HD is formatted as a single extended partition just for data. My principal program for documents is MSWord, and it's easy to set up a custom File|Save Macro to copy the file to another location.

I do the same with images in Photoshop, although I have to use a batch file to do the copying.

I do this for other reasons, but realize that it would be a solution for the scenario that you suggest: if the first HD failed between 9AM and 4PM you would have current backup copies of files created during that time period.

regards,

-rich <-QUOTE}
Every user has this problem and certainly the user with only one harddisk and one partition, which is the majority of users.
If I work with scheduled backups, I have to expose my external harddisk constantly to internet. That's not a solution and I didn't buy my internal harddisk for backup either and those are also exposed to internet.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> If you guys are going to dibble around with IMAGING and all that may i suggest a very simple precaution to spare yourselves trouble if your images foul up or anything else.

Get another EQUAL sized HARD DRIVE and "CLONE" everything including MBR/Partitions and all to it, then you're extra secured from loss. <-QUOTE}
Does that solve the problem of losing updatings of TODAY ? I don't see any solution.

[flinchlock]

{QUOTE-> Does that solve the problem of losing updatings of TODAY ? I don't see any solution. <-QUOTE}Drive Backup 8.51 - Real-time hard disk imaging backup (http://drive-backup.com/corporate/professional/real_time_disk_imaging_backup.htm)...

{QUOTE-> Real-time hard disk imaging backup delivers comprehensive protection for your desktops and laptops with no need to close any application during disk imaging process.

Based on Paragon's Hot Backup Technology, Drive Backup Server creates an image of running 24/7 environment without interrupting it. Created hard disk image contains not only data files and folders as it is with file-level backup, but all the content of the source hard drive or partition, including system and hidden files, compressed and encrypted files and even boot records.

So, real-time hard disk imaging backup provides you with complete snapshot of your hard disk or separate partition. In any case of data corruption or loss you can easily restore separate files and folders or entire hard disk, you can boot from right away. Thus, Paragon Drive Backup delivers you really fast and comprehensive desktops and laptops protection - faster in times comparing to file-level backup. <-QUOTE}You bet.

Mike

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE->
Based on Paragon's Hot Backup Technology, Drive Backup Server creates an image of running 24/7 environment without interrupting it. Created hard disk image contains not only data files and folders as it is with file-level backup, but