is Powershdow harmful to Harddisk?

[koreanmark]

Is the comment below correct?

-{ Quote: "
I do think the technology of Powershadow will damage your harddisk.

When you first install Powershadow, it will find a free space in your harddisk for the "cache buffer". It maybe will take 1-10 GB space in your harddisk.

when you are in shadow mode, all the disk access will be actually saved into the "cache buffer". when you rebooting, the "cache buffer" will be clean. all the changes will be lost.

that is the theory of Powershadow.

Now, all the disk access will muster in a fixed buffer area. That means the linear accesss to disk will be changed to a point. The "cache buffer" will be used very very frequently.

Damage on your harddisk will be there soon.

Now other products of virtual solution already dropped this technology and move to new way.

But after I tested the PS 2.8, it was still in the old way.
" }-

[Huupi]

-{ Quote: "Is the comment below correct?" }-

from your expl. it seems the way it does,but how long is PS around,million users around the globe.googling it no mention to drive crashes due to PS,but maybe your right from theoretical view with not that big impact on daily use.... i hope so,hope you are wrong,time will tell.

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "from your expl. it seems the way it does,but how long is PS around,million users around the globe.googling it no mention to drive crashes due to PS,but maybe your right from theoretical view with not that big impact on daily use.... i hope so,hope you are wrong,time will tell." }-

As I know, they publish PS in freeware in China. This helps them to get millions of users there. But few western people know chinese and never can find drive crashes report in chinese forums.

BTW, I come from Korea, I know some chinese characters. There are 195,000 search result in google that report problem of drive crashes by PS in chinese.

[mitchelson]

PS doesn't use drive "cashe buffer", maybe " RAM" instead.
So many people can't figure out how PS works, till now all guess/theories from users just prove wrong.
But only thing that quite for sure: PS is comletely no harmful to hard drive .

[mitchelson]

-{ Quote: "As I know, they publish PS in freeware in China. This helps them to get millions of users there. But few western people know chinese and never can find drive crashes report in chinese forums.

BTW, I come from Korea, I know some chinese characters. There are 195,000 search result in google that report problem of drive crashes by PS in chinese." }-


I'm from china and have used PS for quite a long time, but I've never heard of such drive-crash problems.
Many PS users keep saying that? I quite doubt it.Maybe, just because the quality of hard drive is not good enough.

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "PS doesn't use drive "cashe buffer", maybe " RAM" instead.
So many people can't figure out how PS works, till now all guess/theories from users just prove wrong.
But only thing that quite for sure: PS is comletely no harm to hard drive ." }-

Thanks, I think I am clear now. But how many RAM will need by PS if I copy 7 GB movies from DVD to disk?

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "I'm from china and have used PS for quite a long time, but I've never heard of such drive-crash problems.
Maybe, just because the quality of hard drive is not good enough.
Many PS users keep saying that? I quite doubt it." }-

to mitchelson:
Thanks very much.
BTW, in China, only $50 can buy a source code like PS, yes?

[mitchelson]

I don't know the specific infor about how PS works either. Sorry.

If u just wanna copy huge files to "un-shadowed" disk or partition, never warry about RAM space .

:)

[mitchelson]

-{ Quote: "to mitchelson:
Thanks very much.
BTW, in China, only $50 can buy a source code like PS, yes?" }-


Really? I haven't heard that PS wants to sell its source code out in such a low price!
If it's true, I have to say that company is a little stupid & I will definitely buy one copy of that.
IMO, I just consider this as a fake news. ;D

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "I don't know the specific infor about how PS works either. Sorry.

If u just wanna copy huge files to "un-shadowed" disk or partition, never warry about RAM space .

:)" }-

I tested copying 8GB data from D drive to my C drive just now while in shadow mode, it works well on my XP.

BTW, I have only 512 MB RAM and the pagefiles in my computer is 1024 MB. if there is no "Cache buffer" in the harddisk, how can?

[mitchelson]

JUST see if your hard-drive is working or not.(by the status of HD light ).
If the light is off, DO NOT worry about your HD anymore.

As I am not the developer of PS, I too wonder the way of PS works.
Sorry for not being able to tell u more. But, no relation with drive-cashe, this is true.

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "JUST see if your hard-drive is working or not.(by the status of HD light ).
If the light is off, DO NOT worry about your HD anymore.

As I am not the developer of PS, I too wonder the way of PS works.
Sorry for not being able to tell u more. But, no relation with drive-cashe, this is true." }-

Thanks. If PS cause many bad sectors on the harddisk, a lower-format may fix it. But if it casue the physical damage, I think it will be dangerous.

[mitchelson]

-{ Quote: "Thanks. If PS cause many bad sectors on the harddisk, a lower-format may fix it. But if it casue the physical damage, I think it will be dangerous." }-

Having searched for a while in google&discussed with someone else, I have to admit that comment you quoted seems reasonable to some extent.

PS may use the free space on harddisk for any system alteration / apps writing data .
But, how this action connect with HD physical damage? The effect to HD cause by PS just seems the same like other "common" apps.

Suggestion:
1. Allocate the "pagefiles" to other partitions rather than" c:\ " .
2. Don't try to copy huge files or install huge softwares to system partition in shadow mode. -------If you do so, error may occur.

[steve161]

Interesting discussion. I would like to hear some more opinions about this, but a good question is: How many times can you write/delete to a specific part of your HD safely? Is there a point where you will damage it? And does PS cause any further damage than just normal usage?

[Peter2150]

I am having a hard time buying this hard disk problem. By using Perfect DIsk frequently I am keeping all the files in one general area of the drive. Did this for 4 years on one machine with no problems, so it's hard to see how PS could cause a problem with a cache.

Pete

[Perman]

Hi, folks: Nice discussions and invaluable info re: cache/ram buffer. To this this day, PS's feature of being able to switch from normal to shadowed mode on the fly without any rebooting is still puzzling me. This buffer theory may shed some lights. I have been suspecting that PS may indeed produce two snapshot or its like to facilitate that switch feature. This cache/ram buffer theory may hold some merits. :)

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "Having searched for a while in google&discussed with someone else, I have to admit that comment you quoted seems reasonable to some extent.

PS may use the free space on harddisk for any system alteration / apps writing data .
But, how this action connect with HD physical damage? The effect to HD cause by PS just seems the same like other "common" apps.

Suggestion:
1. Allocate the "pagefiles" to other partitions rather than" c:\ " .
2. Don't try to copy huge files or install huge softwares to system partition in shadow mode. -------If you do so, error may occur." }-

oh! If shadow mode is on, MAYBE All the action of writing to harddisk actually happen in the "cache buffer".

Day and days. Hope it will not cut down the life of my harddisk.:'(

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "As I know, they publish PS in freeware in China. This helps them to get millions of users there. But few western people know chinese and never can find drive crashes report in chinese forums.

BTW, I come from Korea, I know some chinese characters. There are 195,000 search result in google that report problem of drive crashes by PS in chinese." }-

And, of those 195,000 reports, many will be duplicates? I wonder how many crashes there are, on average, of computers without Powershadow? Out of millions of computers, some will be older and ready to die anyway.

Powershadow is a great software. If by chance it does shorten my hard disk life by a few thousand hours, I'll probably be looking for a new computer by then anyway.

[Peter2150]

Frankly this is becoming a rather foolish discussion. KoreanMark, you seem to be using a silly argument to keep questioning Power Shadow.

Anyone who uses a defragger is keeping files in the same area of the disk with no ill effect.

Either provide some evidence from a credible, verifiable source or drop it.

Pete

[WilliamP]

How could PS be any more harmful to a hard drive than any other software such as FD-ISR, DeepFreeze, ShadowProtect or defragging ?

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "And, of those 195,000 reports, many will be duplicates? I wonder how many crashes there are, on average, of computers without Powershadow? Out of millions of computers, some will be older and ready to die anyway.

Powershadow is a great software. If by chance it does shorten my hard disk life by a few thousand hours, I'll probably be looking for a new computer by then anyway." }-

Out of millions of computers? Really?

As I know, Powershadow is a freeware in China.

Here is the Powershadow download link in the largest software website in China.
http://www.skycn.com/soft/26716.html
there are only about 6,000 download count since 05/10/2006.

Here is the Powershadow download link in the download.com.
http://www.download.com/Power-Shadow/3000-2094_4-10373687.html
there are only about 4,400 download count since 11/1/2005.

I am confused now. Where the millions of users come from?

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "Out of millions of computers? Really?

As I know, Powershadow is a freeware in China.

Here is the Powershadow download link in the largest software website in China.
http://www.skycn.com/soft/26716.html
there are only about 6,000 download count since 05/10/2006.

Here is the Powershadow download link in the download.com.
http://www.download.com/Power-Shadow/3000-2094_4-10373687.html
there are only about 4,400 download count since 11/1/2005.

I am confused now. Where the millions of users come from?" }-


I don't know where the millions come from. I'm using your quote above, "This helps them to get millions of users there. But few western people know chinese and never can find drive crashes report in chinese forums."

Where does the 195,000 hard drive failures come from if there are less about 11,000 downloads since 5/10/2006?

[flinchlock]

http://powershadowsecurity.com/default.aspx-{ Quote: "( Over 3,219,680 used daily by people in over 50 countries by May 11, 2007 5pm CST )" }-Notice is says "countries".

Mike

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "I don't know where the millions come from. I'm using your quote above, "This helps them to get millions of users there. But few western people know chinese and never can find drive crashes report in chinese forums."

Where does the 195,000 hard drive failures come from if there are less about 11,000 downloads since 5/10/2006?" }-

I think the Skycn.com and download.com will not cheat us. They are the most popular site in China and USA. yes?

[Perman]

Hi, folks: I remember Mr. Bao, PS's chief Engineer, has mentioned on one occasion that they also OEM for a number of companies including some East European Countries. If so, these MMM(head spinning number) may hold some water here. ;)

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "Hi, folks: I remember Mr. Bao, PS's chief Engineer, has mentioned on one occasion that they also OEM for a number of companies including some East European Countries. If so, these MMM(head spinning number) may hold some water here. ;)" }-

oh, I c, thanks. you are quite nice.

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "Hi, folks: I remember Mr. Bao, PS's chief Engineer, has mentioned on one occasion that they also OEM for a number of companies including some East European Countries. If so, these MMM(head spinning number) may hold some water here. ;)" }-

I suspect the number of users is in the millions, as flinchlock mentioned. I read that many schools in China use it, businesses, etc.

The Chinese are putting out some great software these days, with PS and Eqsecure which I haven't tried yet but have been following in the threads.

[mitchelson]

The atmosphere here becomes strange, some guy turns irrational......

Sure,PS is not perfect-- no other app can achieve that .

It is just your personal choice if use it or not, I can't see the necessity to argue about it anymore

IN fact, PS has been commercially sold in Hongkong&Taiwan market for a long time. (maybe not in such name) So, there r a lot of people using PS nowadays.

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "The atmosphere here becomes strange, some guy turns irrational......

Sure,,PS is not perfect-- no other app can achieve that .

It is just your personal choice if use it or not, I can't see the necessity to argue about it anymore" }-

no other app can achieve that? really?
Is it a bug of Powershadow?
Should people bear the damage to hardisk?

[mitchelson]

U just keep saying PS will damage your HD , but without any proof.

I will not reply again, sorry ; U just go ahead. :)

But it will be much better to report such bug to PS official forum,isn'it?
-{ Quote: "no other app can achieve that? really?
Is it a bug of Powershadow? " }-

Is there anything perfect (including software)existing in the world? I really don't think so.

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "I suspect the number of users is in the millions, as flinchlock mentioned. I read that many schools in China use it, businesses, etc.

The Chinese are putting out some great software these days, with PS and Eqsecure which I haven't tried yet but have been following in the threads." }-

As I know, in China, the public pc cafe and school mostly use the recovery card or Deepfreeze. No Admin will install a software that allow people to select shadow mode without password in a public pc.

[WilliamP]

This morning while surfing the net in Shadow mode I laid my glasses on the computer tower. I came out of Shadow mode to update my AV. Now my glasses are gone. Man I hate that.

[Perman]

-{ Quote: "As I know, in China, the public pc cafe and school mostly use the recovery card or Deepfreeze. No Admin will install a software that allow people to select shadow mode without password in a public pc." }-
Hi, folks: Despite of continuing debates back and forth, Koreanmark does point out a visible weakness of PS; it does not have a password protection. Switching in and out of shadow mode as easy as folks picking up chopsticks, let alone the so-called total security. Therefore I doubt any given schools or public institutions in China would worry-freely adopt it. May I be allowed to say PS is not bullet proof in this regard ? Have a nice one.

[flinchlock]

-{ Quote: "Switching in and out of shadow mode as easy as folks picking up chopsticks, let alone the so-called total security. Therefore I doubt any given schools or public institutions in China would worry-freely adopt it. May I be allowed to say PS is not bullet proof in this regard?" }-IF you want PS to always be in shadow mode, just tweak the boot.ini to make it the ONLY choice... a "Kiosk". I wouldn't doubt there is already an option to do that.

Mike

[Perman]

-{ Quote: "IF you want PS to always be in shadow mode, just tweak the boot.ini to make it the ONLY choice... a "Kiosk". I wouldn't doubt there is already an option to do that.

Mike" }-
Hi, folks: Nice to know this. Thanks.

[ronjor]

Let's get back on topic which is:"is Powershdow harmful to Harddisk?'. Also, see this post. (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=1006724&postcount=19)

[koreanmark]

-{ Quote: "IF you want PS to always be in shadow mode, just tweak the boot.ini to make it the ONLY choice... a "Kiosk". I wouldn't doubt there is already an option to do that.

Mike" }-

as I know, the PS reads the the boot.ini option which user choose from here.

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control
SystemStartOptions = xxxx

if someone know this, can change boot.ini easyly.

Now, It is easy to find the source code of PS in some chinese sites. I think it is too weak to use PS in a public pc.

[Peter2150]

Since there is no more apparent discussion on the topic "is Powershadow harmful to Harddisk, this thread will be closed. Please continue discussion in one of the several Powershadow threads.

Pete