Automatic CC Renewal

[pilotart]

There are some 'subscription' and other re-occuring charges that are no-doubt worthwhile to have on 'Automatic'. However when I used Norton (9 years) I would always 'check the table' at Costco or Sam's Club around renewal time and pick up a box with a rebate 'deal'. ;D

Same with a lot of magazines, often a 'blow-in' card will offer a year at half the 'renewal' price.:D
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TOP STORY
Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec charge cards with little warning! (http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070517){QUOTE->
By Scott Dunn

These days, most antivirus and other security products come with a subscription to update your virus definitions.

Signing up usually means forced automatic subscription renewal, in which your credit card is charged every year, and it's not easy to opt out — but I'll show you how. ... <-QUOTE}
Although I am all for an option to put recurring charges on an automatic or debit plan, the above described practice; "...But to compel customers to adopt automatic charges and then hide or obscure that fact is quite another matter. ..." and then "...compound the problem by making the cancellation process difficult and hard to find. ..." :thumbd:
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Moderator; Please move, if this is not the Board for this information.:-\

[NAMOR]

{QUOTE-> There are some 'subscription' and other re-occuring charges that are no-doubt worthwhile to have on 'Automatic'. However when I used Norton (9 years) I would always 'check the table' at Costco or Sam's Club around renewal time and pick up a box with a rebate 'deal'. ;D

Same with a lot of magazines, often a 'blow-in' card will offer a year at half the 'renewal' price.:D
________________________________________

TOP STORY
Microsoft, McAfee, Symantec charge cards with little warning! (http://windowssecrets.com/comp/070517)
Although I am all for an option to put recurring charges on an automatic or debit plan, the above described practice; "...But to compel customers to adopt automatic charges and then hide or obscure that fact is quite another matter. ..." and then "...compound the problem by making the cancellation process difficult and hard to find. ..." :thumbd:
_____________________________________
Moderator; Please move, if this is not the Board for this information.:-\ <-QUOTE}


If anyone wanted to cancel the auto renew feature for their copy of Norton you can do so by going to the following link.

https://www.mynortonaccount.com/amsweb/default.do

[Mele20]

Who would want an auto renew feature? I think that is a horrible idea. Likely you won't stay with the same AV more than one year and even if you do why would you want to give that sort of power to the vendor? I wouldn't ever touch any AV that did that to me. They have it backwards. No auto renew should be the default. If someone actually wants auto renew then they should have to actively check the option. Since you don't know what the price will be when auto renew comes up why in the world would anyone accept auto renew? Part of your decision when the time comes is what is the cost.

Yes, Symantec makes it easier than the others reviewed to opt out of auto renew and that is to be commended but they should never have checked auto renew by default in the first place. If I read that when I was getting ready to buy Norton, it would cause me to run as fast possible in the other direction.

Plus, what idiot would allow an AV vendor, or any other vendor, to store their credit card info that long? I agree with the conclusion of the article that one MUST have a credit card that has a single purchase authorization feature to protect oneself against crap like this. . I don't have a card with that feature but I almost never buy anything on the internet...still, I have to ask my main credit card issuer why they don't offer the feature. Plus, you should always use a alias, time limited, email address or throwaway one. That means you will never receive any notice that auto renew is pending. Another reason for never buying an AV that forces auto renew by default.

[midway40]

I wasn't aware about the auto-renewal. I must didn't see the fine print.

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> ....what idiot would allow an AV vendor, or any other vendor, to store their credit card info that long?... <-QUOTE}
I've noticed, as I'm sure have others, that a *lot* of vendors (and not just AV vendors) have a checkbox for storing credit card information that is **checked by default**. I'm extremely careful when I make a purchase to *uncheck* that box since I don't want my CC info being stored, period.

HOWEVER, I followed the "mynortonaccount" link provided in an earlier post and noticed that Symantec has one of my CC account numbers in their system. I don't even recall having bought anything from them online anytime in the recent past. Even if I had, I would NOT have checked the box giving consent to have my CC number stored. Further, the auto-renew, which, again, I would never use, was set to "off". Therefore, I have no idea why they would continue to store my CC number.

BUT IT GETS WORSE! There was absolutely no way to delete the CC information!! When I tried to change the number, I got a message stating the new number was invalid, of course. The only thing the system would allow me to do was to change my name, address, and phone number. Also, I was able to change the expiration date of the card so it wouldn't match the number. Regardless, they still have a valid CC number in their system which I find somewhat disturbing.

[VikingStorm]

{QUOTE-> I've noticed, as I'm sure have others, that a *lot* of vendors (and not just AV vendors) have a checkbox for storing credit card information that is **checked by default**. I'm extremely careful when I make a purchase to *uncheck* that box since I don't want my CC info being stored, period.

HOWEVER, I followed the "mynortonaccount" link provided in an earlier post and noticed that Symantec has one of my CC account numbers in their system. I don't even recall having bought anything from them online anytime in the recent past. Even if I had, I would NOT have checked the box giving consent to have my CC number stored. Further, the auto-renew, which, again, I would never use, was set to "off". Therefore, I have no idea why they would continue to store my CC number.

BUT IT GETS WORSE! There was absolutely no way to delete the CC information!! When I tried to change the number, I got a message stating the new number was invalid, of course. The only thing the system would allow me to do was to change my name, address, and phone number. Also, I was able to change the expiration date of the card so it wouldn't match the number. Regardless, they still have a valid CC number in their system which I find somewhat disturbing. <-QUOTE}
That's why it is good practice to have a credit card from a bank that has virtual account numbers.

[twl845]

If you have some subscriptions coming up for renewal soon, and you want to avoid auto renewal, I would think that having your credit card number changed before hand would thwart any attempt. I'm going to see my banker before anything else comes due.
About a month ago I received an e-mail from PC Tools announcing that they were renewing my copy of Registry Mechanic for another year at $29.95. I had uninstalled that app months ago, because I didn't like it, and I didn't ask for auto renew. I had to scramble and search every link on their web site until I found a blurb that said a renewal could be canceled if done within 2 days. I fired off a firmly worded e-mail to them and instructed them to cancel my subscription and reply with a confirmation. After a confirmation that they received my e-mail, my cancellation was sent in due time. Someone later told me that there was a radio button on the download page that you had to uncheck when you bought the software. Unfortunately I bought mine through a promo at PC Word magazine.com so I don't remember any radio button. I guess this is a wake up call to everyone buying software. Read every word and read the small print. >:(

[twl845]

I almost forgot to mention that PC Magazine also renewed me without my approval, saying that I had asked for auto renewal. If my memory serves me well, that was a lot easier to stop because I paid by check via US mail.

[midway40]

I finally checked out my account when I got home this evening:

http://img412.imageshack.us/img412/2254/autorenewlh3.jpg

I can breathe easier now :)

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> I can breathe easier now :) <-QUOTE}
I can't. I have (or had) an account for my PCs and set up an account for my father's PC. Both accounts show that auto-renewal is turned off AND my father's account is also showing that his CC has expired.

REGARDLESS, I looked at his CC statement online, just within the last hour, and noticed a charge from Symantec! The charge was for the renewal of his NAV subscription and I have no idea how they managed to put the charge through considering they had an expired card on file.

Further, he hasn't had a Norton product installed on his machine for months. I removed Norton after he experienced some issues with it and installed AVG. More recently, I bought him a copy of NOD32.

This is pathetic and exacerbated by the fact that he never even received an e-mail (or other correspondence) notifying him that his subscription was up for renewal and his CC would be charged.

[screamer]

I've had basically the same situation w/ Symantic. I haven't used the AV in two years, but a few months ago I received an e-mail that my card was going to be charged $39.00. I looked up my account details for Symantic site and tried to log on, no dice.
Short of calling, I've done everything I can to have the charge & Auto Re-New changed. I never knew there was an option to Auto Re-New otherwise I wouldn't have checked it.

...screamer <--- screwed

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> ...Short of calling, I've done everything I can to have the charge & Auto Re-New changed... <-QUOTE}
Well, I'd forget about calling unless you've got at least half an hour to wait on hold.

It would probably be much more expeditious (not to mention effective) to contact your CC company and tell them you're on an auto-billing cycle for a service you're not using and no longer want and that you have been unable to get the vendor to stop debiting your card. At least that's my plan.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I've had basically the same situation w/ Symantic. I haven't used the AV in two years, but a few months ago I received an e-mail that my card was going to be charged $39.00. I looked up my account details for Symantic site and tried to log on, no dice.
Short of calling, I've done everything I can to have the charge & Auto Re-New changed. I never knew there was an option to Auto Re-New otherwise I wouldn't have checked it.

...screamer <--- screwed <-QUOTE}

Why not just call the credit card company and tell them to reject the charge. That way they will get the picture. Or better yet, just call and ask for a replacement card. New card number and old problem solved.

[twl845]

Your Visa card account won't reject a charge. It must be posted first, and then YOU have to get the vendors refusal to credit your account in writing, before you can object to the bank. Per my bank. As for getting a new card number BEFORE the charge is posted, I will try that soon.
I will get a written statement from every software etc. I purchase from now on before the sale, that they will not use auto renewal or no sale.

[prius04]

{QUOTE-> ...YOU have to get the vendors refusal to credit your account in writing, before you can object to the bank... <-QUOTE}
True.....sort of. Per the Fair Credit Billing Act, the vendor *must respond* within 30 days of receipt of the notice that you're disputing the charge. If they don't respond, you're entitled to a credit. Further, you do not have to pay the disputed amount while the dispute is pending.

[bigc73542]

You have to buy from Symantecs online store and use a credit card for the purchase or the auto renewal never gets activated. So if you buy from any other online or brick and mortar store you don't have anything to worry about.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> You have to buy from Symantecs online store and use a credit card for the purchase or the auto renewal never gets activated. So if you buy from any other online or brick and mortar store you don't have anything to worry about. <-QUOTE}

That's good to know. :) I'lll never buy from Symantec, but I assume that holds for any brand software.

[Mele20]

{QUOTE-> Your Visa card account won't reject a charge. It must be posted first, and then YOU have to get the vendors refusal to credit your account in writing, before you can object to the bank. Per my bank. As for getting a new card number BEFORE the charge is posted, I will try that soon.
I will get a written statement from every software etc. I purchase from now on before the sale, that they will not use auto renewal or no sale. <-QUOTE}

No, the way it works is that the charge that you did not authorize goes on your account. You see it and you call your bank and tell them you want to dispute that charge. They "suspend" the charge during their investigation. They send you forms to be filled out about the dispute. This is where you tell them in detail what has happened, your attempt(s) to correct the problem before you took the step of contacting the bank to place a formal dispute of the charge, etc. So, keep records of any emails you have sent to the seller and the dates and times of any phone calls and person spoken to if you got through to a person. If you phoned and were kept on hold for a very long time and gave up finally, have the times when this happened.

After your bank receives your written answers they then initiate an inquiry and they will, at that point, contact the vendor/seller and will send a copy of your written complaint to the seller. They will ask for the seller's side of the dispute. Generally, at this point, either the seller makes no response and the bank ends up crediting your account (after the 30 day period is up) or the seller responds shamefacedly and removes the charge without the bank having to take further steps. Sometimes the seller will respond with their version of the events that is nothing like what the credit card holder claims and then there must be further investigation.

I use a local credit card that has local customer service and this kind of dispute is one reason I keep and use this card rather than a card from the bank where I have my checking account, but the credit card customer service is some place in Georgia on the Mainland. I also don't use a Mainland Mega bank card for the same reason. I've had to dispute a few charges over the years and it was much easier to do it with local customer service, plus, I was not just a faceless person thousands of miles away to the bank and I think that made the bank inclined from the beginning to be on my side.

[twl845]

{QUOTE-> No, the way it works is that the charge that you did not authorize goes on your account. You see it and you call your bank and tell them you want to dispute that charge. They "suspend" the charge during their investigation. They send you forms to be filled out about the dispute. This is where you tell them in detail what has happened, your attempt(s) to correct the problem before you took the step of contacting the bank to place a formal dispute of the charge, etc. So, keep records of any emails you have sent to the seller and the dates and times of any phone calls and person spoken to if you got through to a person. If you phoned and were kept on hold for a very long time and gave up finally, have the times when this happened.

After your bank receives your written answers they then initiate an inquiry and they will, at that point, contact the vendor/seller and will send a copy of your written complaint to the seller. They will ask for the seller's side of the dispute. Generally, at this point, either the seller makes no response and the bank ends up crediting your account (after the 30 day period is up) or the seller responds shamefacedly and removes the charge without the bank having to take further steps. Sometimes the seller will respond with their version of the events that is nothing like what the credit card holder claims and then there must be further investigation.

I use a local credit card that has local customer service and this kind of dispute is one reason I keep and use this card rather than a card from the bank where I have my checking account, but the credit card customer service is some place in Georgia on the Mainland. I also don't use a Mainland Mega bank card for the same reason. I've had to dispute a few charges over the years and it was much easier to do it with local customer service, plus, I was not just a faceless person thousands of miles away to the bank and I think that made the bank inclined from the beginning to be on my side. <-QUOTE}
Mele20, Thanks for your version. I will look into your explanation if I have trouble in the future. However, I gave my version as it was related to me at my local credit union.:P