Dell & Spyware: Open Letter

[Paul Wilders]

Dell is doing some rather akward stuff in regard to spyware.

I would like to invite everyone to read this open letter (http://216.180.233.153/~swidotcom/support_letter.php) to Dell, and at least spread the word.

regards.

paul

[Acadia]

Bingo, Paul, thank you! >:(

Acadia

[Detox]

hear, hear!

Well done and well written.

[Paul Wilders]

It has been covered by Slasdot (http://yro.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=03/12/03/0257238&mode=thread&tid=126&tid=172&tid=187&tid=98&tid=99) as well. The issue is debated all over the web - and rightly so.

regards.

paul

[solarpowered candle]

This is really interesting . one can only ask the question of why they are behaving in this way ?.
I work for a govt organisation . I am a remote worker in the field . I collect statistics on a Dell laptop . These statistics are ( under the statistics act and Law ) confidential . Could such be compromised by the use of such . I have sent a link to the above letter to the department i work for and shall be most interested to see what and how they respond.

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: " quoting: solarpowered candle link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=0#msg106744 date=1070535232]
...I have sent a link to the above letter to the department i work for and shall be most interested to see what and how they respond. " }-

Keep us posted - and drop me an email if you wish as soon as you've received a response.


regards.

paul

[solarpowered candle]

Will do and thanks

[jayzzz]

From what I've found after doing 2 destructive recoveries on my own Dell computer using cds provided by Dell, I think there's more behind their attitude than has yet been brought to light. mj

[Prince_Serendip]

:) Hi Paul!

This open letter is good to see. Has any of our legal-beagles (USA) searched recent court documents to see if Dell is embroiled in any legal wranglings involving copyrights? (These are made public as a matter of record.) Their new policy reeks of legal wrestlings. It appears they are trying to do a CTA (Cover-Their-A**). ;)

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: " quoting: Prince_Serendip link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=0#msg106867 date=1070566536]
:) Hi Paul!

This open letter is good to see." }-

Unfortunately: yes ::)

-{ Quote: "Has any of our legal-beagles (USA) searched recent court documents to see if Dell is embroiled in any legal wranglings involving copyrights? (These are made public as a matter of record.) Their new policy reeks of legal wrestlings. It appears they are trying to do a CTA (Cover-Their-A**). ;)" }-

Honestly: I don't know. Mike Healan (US citizen as he is) would be the most appropriate person to ask.

Take care!

paul

[Peaches4U]

Thanks Paul for your posting. My cousin purchased a Dell computer and has had all sorts of problems with pop ups, some porno ones too, among other problems. I have been trying to help him in recommending anti-spyware, pop up stoppers, but he still is not free of all this stuff inspite of all the anti-spyware installed. Your letter posted explains a lot and I have forwarded a copy of it to my cousin. I think this info. will blow him away as it is not something we would expect from Dell computers. Thanks again. :)

[Pieter_Arntz]

Hi Peaches4U,

One pointer for your cousin: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=15913 ;)

Regards,

Pieter

[Peaches4U]

Thanks Pieter. He did instal Ad-Aware & SpyBot, SpywareBlaster, as I recommended, does the updates & scans but his browser keeps getting hijacked and I recommended downloading Hijack It and posting the log here but he has not done so. He is a real newbie and sort of nervous. Popup stoppers cannot seem to control the pop ups and from what he tells me it is pretty bad. Even his McAfee AV failed him and he got infected so I recommended a free online scan with Panda and it caught & cleaned the virus for him. I suspect he missed his updates & relied on the auto update feature.

I keep recommending he go to these forums for far more knowledgeable help than I can give him but as the saying goes "you can lead a horse to water but you can't make him drink"!! :( Even if I don't post here, I always learn something here by reading - fantastic forums at Wilders!!!! 8)

[Prince_Serendip]

;) Let's see. He's still having problems with porn popups after you install anti-spyware? Tell him he has to stop going to porn sites! Most porn popups come from having visited these sites and clicked through their varied links. It is rarily by accident. ;)

I remember an incident at a local grade school. One of the PC's kept having problems with porn popups. The kids weren't doing it. It was the night janitor. LOL ;)

[Peaches4U]

;D Can I have permission to send him your opinion.? ;D Actually, when I used to use AOL at one time, I was always spammed with porn but I never visited any of those sites - had no clue how to find them. ;D I barely knew how to use a computer let alone surf & search. I dumped AOL and have never had that problem since.

Funnily enough I jokingly told him to stop visiting porno sites ... can't imagine him doing it knowingly [not the type] unless he stumbled across the site accidentally. I can have a tad of fun with him on this one. ;D Anyway, your opinion is most interesting.

[Paul Wilders]

Ladies & gents,

I do hope all turns out just fine - but please stop hijacking this thread ;)

regards,

paul

[the Tester]

Dell's attitude regarding spyware is puzzling.
It makes no sense to me.
There has to be a "story behind the story".

Regardless of possible motives,Dell is just plain wrong on this one.
Spyware is a daily issue on the internet and their customers definitely deserve support and assistance for that type of problem.

What are they thinking?! ???

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: "What are they thinking?" }-

mmmm...money? Just a guess ;)

regards,

paul

[Acadia]

-{ Quote: " quoting: Paul Wilders link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=15#msg106948 date=1070579151]
-{ Quote: "What are they thinking?" }-
mmmm...money? Just a guess " }-

Yeah, poor Michael D. Maybe he's trying to catch up to Billy G.

Acadia

[Peaches4U]

Dell computers have come down in price considerably presumably to be more competitive. My guess is that to make up the profit shortfall they are being paid to load this software into their computers. I discovered that Hewlett Packard & Compaq are doing it and so is Logitech for the keyboard, mouse & camera. I think that it may well be that what we call spyware they will deem as malware thus indemnifying them. Just a guess.

[AplusWebMaster]

IMHO, I see nothing to debate - Dell is way wrong on this one.

- In this market of cut-throat competition, it doesn't take much for a "black-eye" to turn into a "knockdown". And when you're on top, you have a lot farther to fall.
- "Policy changes" are made every day in business; Dell is no exception...we'll play the "wait and see" game now.


-

[notageek]

Peaches, most of the spam in AOL comes from spammer lurking around the chat room and see you screen name. I'm not saying you was lurking in chat rooms and chatting but most of the time if a person does he or she gets spammed almost as soon as they go in a chat room. :)

Paul thanks for this info . I have a dell I got last year and really never had any problems with Pop ups or spyware (just what spybot s&d calls spyware from media player). The other problem I had was my computer got fried and I had to reinstall my whole OS. Which was a good thing cuz I knocked off all the stuff dell installed on my pc and just instaled what I wanted. :)

[nadirah]

Dell MUST encourage people to remove malicious spyware on their computers, NOT encourage them to keep it on their computers.

[little eagle]

-{ Quote: " quoting: Paul Wilders link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=0#msg106374 date=1070446991]
Dell is doing some rather akward stuff in regard to spyware.

I would like to invite everyone to read this open letter (http://216.180.233.153/~swidotcom/support_letter.php) to Dell, and at least spread the word.

regards.

paul
" }- guess i'm alittle slow in this high speed world :obut I justread this thread :-[ but when i try to go to the letter i get a blank page ???

[Paul Wilders]

little eagle,

-{ Quote: "alittle slow in this high speed world but I justread this thread but when i try to go to the letter i get a blank page" }-

Unfortunately: true. The letter is hosted on the www.spywareinfoforum.com (http://www.spywareinfoforum.com) server, which is under heavy DdoS attack for almost a week now and therefore unreachable for the time being.

regards.

paul

[little eagle]

:oThank you Paul,thought that it might have ben old news 8)

[Paul Wilders]

-{ Quote: " quoting: little eagle link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=15#msg132289 date=1077014506]
:oThank you Paul,thought that it might have ben old news 8)
" }-

My pleasure - and in a way it's old news indeed ;D

regards.

paul

[ChrisRLG]

Thought you might like to know.

With Spywareinfo, tomcoyotes and NI all off the air due to the DDOS attackes.

DELLS forum with its anti-spyware fighters are open for business and have been for several months. If the going gets rough so that you are attacked join me at Dell, PM me there and I will add to our known experts list.

Join me here http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums

We have one board for spyware/Virus removal and information.

[TheApostate]

Well, if this is the case of any of their stuff even in south africa, you can be damned sure I aint gonna buy any of their products. No till they clean up their act and the word is out on the street, in a manner of speaking. I have enough problems dealing with the every day scum out there on the web, I dont' need the company I buy from installing that sh** on my system as well.

TheApostate

[notageek]

I don't if this will clear anything up or what but this is what I found at the dells website. http://support.dell.com/us/en/kb/document.asp?c=us&dn=1077228&l=en&s=gen

[ChrisRLG]

I hope you notice the link at the bottom to the delltalk community virus board where I post.
-------------------------
Additional Information

Support Options

For more troubleshooting assistance, click one of the support options below.


Dell Community Forum - Virus Information and Removal
Get answers from Dell customers helping each other.
---------------------------
It has my posts pegged by the Dell Mods giving clear instructions for using SpyBot S&D, Ad-aware and for the posting of hijackthis logs so that we can give advice in Dells own forums, on malware removal.

Several TomCoyote trained people are registered at Dell and we have some 20 - 30 hijackthis logs a day being done.

I have been adviced by several Dell Employees that they do now advice that 'the anti-spyware industry' recommends Spybot S&D and Ad-aware as good products (inspite of them selling an paid for competetor), and that the support personnel point people with problems DIRECTLY to my pegged posts for support.

[notageek]

You know now it got me thinking. I think I'm going to call Dell support (being I have a Dell with a warrenty) and ask them a few questions about this spyware junk and see what they tell me. I'll post back on when I get. :)

[ChrisRLG]

I would be pleased to know. I only know the work load on the forum is getting higher each day.

[LowWaterMark]

-{ Quote: " quoting: notageek link=board=22;threadid=17211;start=30#msg134642 date=1077496221]You know now it got me thinking. I think I'm going to call Dell support (being I have a Dell with a warrenty) and ask them a few questions about this spyware junk and see what they tell me. I'll post back on when I get. :) " }-

There's nothing like going directly to the source for getting up to date information... I for one will be very interested in hearing back from you on this. ;)

[ChrisRLG]

Make sure you follow through and post your hijackthis log for me LOL

[notageek]

I called. I'm just going to make this short and sweet. The person I talked (no names) ran around the problem even thought I told them that I downloaded a program that is a known spyware program. I ask if it might be spyware and the person ran around in circles. I got pretty annoyed with this persons voice. But take that for what it's worth. But this person did say I can get help at the dell forum. And just for kicks and grins I asked if Dell puts spyware on their computers before they shipped them and this person got a little upset about that and said have a good evening. :) Maybe I was to upfront about it. ;)

[ChrisRLG]

I am not supprised at the run arround, they still don't wish to say 'do this or do that' for fear of being sued.

But am pleased that, what I was told by my contacts, has been proved correct, that they will advice the dell forum, for other dell users to help people with malware.

Edit : 23/2/04 11:15 am GMT - Spelling etc. LOL

[notageek]

I'm waiting to see if Dell sends a how did we do letter or email or call or something. :) I'll tell them how they did alright. ;)

[Matthew Pollock]

Attempting to access your open letter, I get: "The requested URL /~swidotcom/support_letter.php was not found on this server". Is that what everyone else is getting, or there some special reason for this?

[snowbound]

Hi Mathew Pollock :)

Welcome to Wilders.

Look at reply no#24 in this thread. ;)




snowbound

[Marja]

Hi, I am new at this, but, Dell has been a "boogieman" in my life, lately, so I wanted to read the open letter, my computer said there was no such link, then when I typed in the 218........ numbers for the letter, all I got was a message saying "Apache OK" WHAT ??? Very curious newbie, Marja

[controler]

Hi

Wow i am slow to read this thread too. The lsite is still down.
You don't think Dell had something to do with it do you?

Anyway HP used to add Wild Tangent to their laptops a few years ago but Spybot did clear most of it out. I have a new laptop now from HP and they didn't add any spyware this time so I am happy with their progress.
Most of us don't want to take the time to build our own laptops as we do a desktop but it really isn't that hard to do.
Maybe one needs to make arrangments with some of the software makers here at Wilders and build our own.
We could become famous as the best built and most secure Windows systems on the market today ;D

[snowbound]

Hi Marja :)

Welcome to Wilders.

Take a look at this link,

http://www.spywareinfoforum.com/newsletter/archives/1203/2.php

It is not the original letter but it gives u some idea of it's contents.

Hope this helps.


snowbound

[ChrisRLG]

Hi - no Dell had nothing to do with the continuing attacks on spywareinfo (and the other forums).

Dell in fact it has a lively malware removal forum of its own. Try the links below, and look in the virus (information and removal) board.

[controler]

The Spywareinfo page does link to the original letter

http://www.spywareinfoforum.com/articles/dell/support_letter.php

Nice job paul and the others that signed.

controler

[Marja]

Thanks, I wrote a different post, but, it is either verrry late or tooo early for me! The little faces came out all wrong and my .jpg, is lost!
I am really tired of companies and people not taking a stand, instead they hedge around and around, acting as if doing nothing makes them innocent, when what they are really doing is CTA(like CYA), if the OTHER guy does it, and we make money from them, it's not OUR fault! GRRRRR!!>:( Thanks, Snowbound, I am really glad I found this site!!

[snowbound]

Your welcome Marja :)

Hope u enjoy your stay. ;D *puppy*




snowbound

[Marja]

Time for me to turn my lamps down, the computer off and hopefully give my brain a rest! Before I go, I wanted to say that I found this site at the Dell forums. The message that caught my eye often was like a beacon of light, a force to be reckoned with - a tireless crusader for the light was Chris's 8) !! I was really intrigued with the whole Hijack This, wishing I could help do that. AND who could resist an organization called "WILDERS"??? With so many cool sounding characters involved? Not ME!! Good Days, All!:)

[Mele20]

This was all posted (including the letter) at my home site DSLReports as it unfolded so I have known about this for some time, but I hadn't read this thread until now. I have a new Dell 8300 Dimension, well, new in November which was just before all this came to light. I had no spyware on my new box. I did have several programs, Dell and otherwise, wanting to call home to check for updates so I had to stop that behavior, but that to me, while not something I want happening on my box, is not exactly spyware if looking for an update is all it does and that is all these were doing.

Dell installed antispyware on my box in the form of dsentry.exe which automatically runs at boot and is a program that stops a company from putting spyware on your box when you watch their DVD movie. So, you cannot, on a Dell that has DVD, watch the "extra" features present on many DVD movies because those install spyware. So, I thought it very strange that Dell would, on the one hand, install anti-spyware but on the other hand, not help anyone who called and had symptoms of spyware infestation!

So, I called Dell Small Business Premier tech support to ask about something else and mentioned something about spyware and the tech readily discussed options and professed to know nothing about the controversy and this letter. I then called Dell Home support because my older Dell was bought through that department and was met with hostility when I tried to ask about spyware.

That was back in December. Earlier this month, I needed to call Dell Home support again and I was stunned at the turn around! I listened to new messages that were not there before while waiting (you have to wait a LOT longer if it is Home support than if it is the separate number for Small Business support which is answered almost instantly). The messages were very explicit about spyware and told me I should get Spybot, Adaware, HiJackThis and may have mentioned others that I don't recall. Since then I have called Small Business a couple of times and the wait time is too short for any recorded messages but the techs are happy to discuss spyware and do point you to the Dell forum.

(edited to fix a garbled non-sentence).

[notageek]

Mele20. When I called Dells home tech I didn't have to wait long, maybe about 2 minutes and there was no message on the phone for me. The guy I spoke was a little rude and ran around the problem I claimed I had ( was a real problem but easy to fix) but I did ask about spyware and he told me to run my AV that came with my computer and that would take care of it. After reading your post early this morning (midnight) it made me wonder so I called dell tech this morning and found that there was a new message. The techie also helped me with my other small problem and it was fix from the phone. I think the people at dell must of read the opne letter and change their ways. ;)

[ChrisRLG]

I think too, the amount of posts on the forum may have woke them up to the problem.

Before they would not have seen it. It is now in black and white on thier own website.

I only woke to this problem some 6 months ago, due to the change in problems being posted at the Dell Forum, it has taken that time to move through the ranks to the top.

Most large companies are the same, regardless of which country they are based in (I'm in the UK).