Best AV for LinuX?

[Howard Kaikow]

I'm "thinking" of dual booting Windows/Linux, so what are the recommended AV for Linux.

Native only, I'm not going to run Windows apps within Linux.

[Sjoeii]

Hi Howard

take a look at the Kaspersky forum.
They are beta testing it right now

[Howard Kaikow]

There is a free F-Prot for Linux for home use?
Any good?

[Firecat]

{QUOTE-> I'm "thinking" of dual booting Windows/Linux, so what are the recommended AV for Linux.

Native only, I'm not going to run Windows apps within Linux. <-QUOTE}

Well, I don't know the *best* AV, but you can try these:

AVG Professional for Linux (http://www5.grisoft.com/doc/products-avg-anti-virus-for-linux/us/crp/0)
AVIRA AntiVir Workstation for Linux (http://www.avira.com/en/products/avira_antivir_workstation.html)
F-Prot for Linux (Free for home users) (http://www.f-prot.com/products/home_use/linux/)
Norman Virus Control for Linux (http://www.norman.com/Product/Corporate/Servers/Virus_Control/10795/)
Vexira Antivirus (based on VirusBuster engine) (http://www.centralcommand.com/linux_server.html)

All the solutions listed above provide real-time scanning as well as On-Demand scanning. If you do not mind not having a real-time monitor, you can try BitDefender Linux edition (http://www.bitdefender.com/site/Main/view/Download-Free-Products.html) and Dr.Web for Linux (http://solutions.drweb.com/home/unix/en/), and also eScan for Linux (http://www.mwti.net/products/escan/escan_linux_desktops/escan_linuxdesktops.asp). These solutions provide only an On-Demand scanner.

Detection rates are pretty much the same as what has been said at AV-comparatives for all products. Since you are going to be using your AV on Linux, detection rates in AV-comparatives' "other malware" and "otherOS malware" is paramount. You should choose an AV that does well in these 2 categories. Judging in this regard, I recommend AVIRA Workstation for Linux, or F-Prot should also do well, and offers great value for a free product. I really cannot recommend anyone to use any other Linux AV other than F-Prot, AVIRA or AVG, as these three have good detection rates (and also provide an on-access/real time scanner). If you do not want a real time scanner, then I will also recommend BitDefender Linux edition and eScan for Linux.

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Well, I don't know the *best* AV, but you can try these:

AVG Professional for Linux (http://www5.grisoft.com/doc/products-avg-anti-virus-for-linux/us/crp/0)
AVIRA AntiVir Workstation for Linux (http://www.avira.com/en/products/avira_antivir_workstation.html)
F-Prot for Linux (Free for home users) (http://www.f-prot.com/products/home_use/linux/)
Norman Virus Control for Linux (http://www.norman.com/Product/Corporate/Servers/Virus_Control/10795/)
Vexira Antivirus (based on VirusBuster engine) (http://www.centralcommand.com/linux_server.html)

All the solutions listed above provide real-time scanning as well as On-Demand scanning. If you do not mind not having a real-time monitor, you can try BitDefender Linux edition (http://www.bitdefender.com/site/Main/view/Download-Free-Products.html) and Dr.Web for Linux (http://solutions.drweb.com/home/unix/en/), and also eScan for Linux (http://www.mwti.net/products/escan/escan_linux_desktops/escan_linuxdesktops.asp). These solutions provide only an On-Demand scanner.

Detection rates are pretty much the same as what has been said at AV-comparatives for all products. Since you are going to be using your AV on Linux, detection rates in AV-comparatives' "other malware" and "otherOS malware" is paramount. You should choose an AV that does well in these 2 categories. Judging in this regard, I recommend AVIRA Workstation for Linux, or F-Prot should also do well, and offers great value for a free product. I really cannot recommend anyone to use any other Linux AV other than F-Prot, AVIRA or AVG, as these three have good detection rates (and also provide an on-access/real time scanner). If you do not want a real time scanner, then I will also recommend BitDefender Linux edition and eScan for Linux. <-QUOTE}


Thanx!

I do not expect to use Linux much on the internet.
Wonder how KAV is going to compare?

[Firecat]

{QUOTE-> Thanx!

I do not expect to use Linux much on the internet.
Wonder how KAV is going to compare? <-QUOTE}
Kaspersky is among the best for detecting Linux malware. Kaspersky's own Linux scanner costs a fortune, that is why I have mentioned eScan for Linux instead. eScan's Linux edition uses the KAV 5.0 engine, and will provide good protection, though there is no On-access scanner. eScan costs $25 for 1 year, and $35 for 2 years per user. Its better that you get AVG or AVIRA for similar price because you also get an on-access scanner.

BitDefender's on-demand scanner for Linux is free though. :)

[Johnny123]

{QUOTE-> I'm "thinking" of dual booting Windows/Linux, so what are the recommended AV for Linux. <-QUOTE}

For a desktop system I wouldn't even bother, it's a waste of resources. Linux malware is rare to start with, and if you don't logon as root all the time you don't need it.

[lucas1985]

Add ArcaVir and ClamAV.

[Howard Kaikow]

Is there an AV comparitives, or something of that ilk, for Linux AVs?

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
Howard, you do not need an AV for Linux. Honestly.
All you need is a strong root password and that's all. A firewall if you like.
No spyware, no pryware, no nothing. That's one of the beauties of Linux.
Mrk

[Meriadoc]

Even Symantec has Linux av for long time now, Norton av can scan Executable and Linking Format(ELF) used by Linux, OpenBSD, FreeBSD, NetBSD operating systems. As for best AV see above post as this is also my recommendation.

[aigle]

{QUOTE-> Kaspersky is among the best for detecting Linux malware. Kaspersky's own Linux scanner costs a fortune, that is why I have mentioned eScan for Linux instead. eScan's Linux edition uses the KAV 5.0 engine, and will provide good protection, though there is no On-access scanner. eScan costs $25 for 1 year, and $35 for 2 years per user. Its better that you get AVG or AVIRA for similar price because you also get an on-access scanner.

BitDefender's on-demand scanner for Linux is free though. :) <-QUOTE}
Avira and AVG are not free?

[Firecat]

{QUOTE-> Avira and AVG are not free? <-QUOTE}
No, the workstation edition of Avira is not free, and AVG has only a Professional edition for Linux, which is also not free.

[aigle]

As I know there is a free version of Avira for linux too and there are instruction on how to install it with on-access module.

[kr4ey]

I agree with Mrkvonic. No need for an AV on Linux.
I have been using openSUSE Linux on my desktop computer for a very long time and never had an AV installed. Just have the Firewall active.
See this link (http://www.linuxforums.org/forum/linux-security/56175-short-guide-security.html)

[Howard Kaikow]

Well, I thought that DEnial was a river in Egypt!
DEnying that AV is needed makes no sense.

Not that AV software offers 100% protection.
Thecost of recovering from even a single successful malware can be very high.
Think of AV as insurance.

However, I would not opt for an open source AV, as that tells the malware writers all they need to know to avoid the AV.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Howard, you need to change your thinking.

Linux is NOT Windows.

No viruses, no malware. And if something exists - it can't do anything, because you are not running your system as root.

Trust me, nothing happens in the world of NIX. It's oh so quiet.

Mrk

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Hello,

Howard, you need to change your thinking.

Linux is NOT Windows.

No viruses, no malware. And if something exists - it can't do anything, because you are not running your system as root.

Trust me, nothing happens in the world of NIX. It's oh so quiet.

Mrk <-QUOTE}

AV software is necessary to try to catch malware that destroys, or does other mischief, to your files, root is irrelevant.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Please tell me how such software will get onto your machine?

I'll tell you - except you executing code deliberately, no way.

In the world of Linux, your download sources are official repositories that have everything you need.

Most of the times you'll be downloading from sources too, so no tricks here.

Even if you download something manually, then you have checksums for everything you download. Just look at the checksum, compare to what you download, if they match, you're all set.

Mrk

[Meriadoc]

Okay, i can see that you need av for linux.:) Just pick anyone mentioned here - I'd recommend free F-Prot until you discover that you can do without it.

[Rmus]

{QUOTE->

Linux is NOT Windows.

No viruses, no malware. <-QUOTE}Hmm... if I remember, some of the first virusses (worms) were *NIX. And of course, rootkit comes from the *NIX world.

Certainly, *NIX code is just as exploitable as any code - it just hasn't received the attention of the cybercriminal. Up until recently, Firefox users thought they were impervious.

But why should cybercriminals waste their time on *NIX , when millions of Windows users are just sitting there waiting to join a botnet?

However, it is a moot question, because any system/software is safe if used intelligently, as many users of Windows and -- dare I say: IE -- have demonstrated in years of no malware intrusions.


regards,

-rich

________________________________________________________________
"Talking About Security Can Lead To Anxiety, Panic, And Dread...
Or Cool Assessments, Common Sense And Practical Planning..."
--Bruce Schneier

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Whenever addressing a problem one should estimate its importance in the overall picture. Yes, there are virii and rootkits and such for *NIX. But the question is how really dangerous or likely are they?

In default configuration of an average Linux distro versus default Windows configuration, they are several orders of magnitude less dangerous and less likely.

While I believe it takes skill to get infected even in Windows, it takes supernatural powers to do it in Linux.

First virii and rootkits were for Unix. Okay ... So? It's been 20 years since. Windows hardly existed then...

I do not subscribe to the security through minority approach.

Firefox is not being targeted not because it appeals to a small percentage of population. It is not targeted because it is a very HARD target. It's so much easier writing code that will corrupt IE than Firefox. So much easier.

Furthermore, I don't think Firefox users are getting disillusioned about their favorite toy. Security fixes notwithstanding - they are fixed before anyone can blink and think twice about exploiting, another super side of Firefox - I have yet to see a successful, working exploit for Firefox.

Back to Linux, the same applies. You get instant patches for tiniest vulnerabilities. You get transparency and security from the mere fact that everything is open-source and available for review ans scrutiny of thousands of uber-geeks. It's like BORG.

You are right about why bother with *NIX when Windowsers are waiting to be fed malware. True. But even if you take Windows out of the equation, the world of malware does not make a simple turn toward *NIX and starts celebration. No no.

*NIX systems are completely different.
*NIX users are completely different.

Combined, it takes much effort to self-inflict damage.

In this regard, the default user running a default Linux has nothing to worry about virii or such. After all, how and where is he going to find them? In official releases of the applications that come with his distro?

Finally, it does not matter what you run - or me. But go for the middle of the pile, you will see the astronomical difference between Windows and Linux.

Mrk

[Johnny123]

{QUOTE-> AV software is necessary to try to catch malware that destroys, or does other mischief, to your files, root is irrelevant. <-QUOTE}

Root is not irrelevant. It would be irrelevant if you logged on all the time as root, but you don't do that. If you get malware with a Linux distro it's because you installed it yourself. Let's say you go to a malicious site and it wants to install malware on your system. It can't do it if you are not running as root. You may get a popup asking you for the root password. If you're stupid enough to enter it, then you may get something, but even in this case the chances of it being a Linux malware are a million to one. With almost 100% certainty it's a Windows exploit, and even if you give it the root password it won't run anyway.

Antivirus applications for Linux are mainly intended for servers that have Windows clients in a network and they look for Windows malware. If you are not using Linux as a mail or file server in this type of environment you do not need an antivirus.

[aluckystar]

No need to install antivirus software on Linux for personal use.

There are only very very few viruses.:)

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Whenever addressing a problem one should estimate its importance in the overall picture. Yes, there are virii and rootkits and such for *NIX. But the question is how really dangerous or likely are they? <-QUOTE}Well, I've applied the "how likely" criteria to Windows for years. I've even used the internet regularly with IE on low sedurity settings, hoping to find an exploit in my normal work. I have to actually know about a infected site and go to it before I find any exploit.

{QUOTE-> In default configuration of an average Linux distro versus default Windows configuration, they are several orders of magnitude less dangerous and less likely. <-QUOTE}Agreed, but this is not a fault of Windows, rather, how it comes out of the box. Easy to set up to be secure.

{QUOTE-> While I believe it takes skill to get infected even in Windows, it takes supernatural powers to do it in Linux. <-QUOTE}Agreed, but this is a user problem, not an OS problem. Correctly configured, Windows users should not be afraid of getting infected.

{QUOTE-> Back to Linux, the same applies. You get instant patches for tiniest vulnerabilities. <-QUOTE}Agreed, but tiny vulnerabilities can become bigger and more pervasive if enough cybercriminals focus on doing it. My comment was in response to your implication that somehow, Linux had some type of armor shield around it, making it somehow impenetrable

{QUOTE-> Finally, it does not matter what you run - or me. But go for the middle of the pile, you will see the astronomical difference between Windows and Linux. <-QUOTE}Agreed, but I do not blame Windows, for users can be easily taught how to use it safely, which has been my experience for many years.

Just because the statistics indicate the many problems people have had with Windows and MS products doesn't mean that everyone is automatically plopped into that pool of users.

NOTE: we are getting a bit off topic, and should probably start another thread.

regards,

-rich

________________________________________________________________
"Talking About Security Can Lead To Anxiety, Panic, And Dread...
Or Cool Assessments, Common Sense And Practical Planning..."
--Bruce Schneier

[zip]

Since avast! is the best av for Windows I would think avast! for Linux would be the best for Linux.;) Right now avast! for Linux doesn't have realtime scanning. Avast! will soon have realtime scanning for Linux.:D

I currently don't have Linux on my hard drive, but if I did it would have avast! installed. I'm trying to decide between MEPIS or Ubuntu. I want a free distro with Opera and plays regional DVD's already part of the install.

[Coolio10]

{QUOTE-> Since avast! is the best av for Windows I would think avast! for Linux would be the best for Linux.;) Right now avast! for Linux doesn't have realtime scanning. Avast! will soon have realtime scanning for Linux.:D

I currently don't have Linux on my hard drive, but if I did it would have avast! installed. I'm trying to decide between MEPIS or Ubuntu. I want a free distro with Opera and plays regional DVD's already part of the install. <-QUOTE}

Pick kubuntu it has giant repositories or for ease of use pick PCLinuxOS.

New version of kubuntu came out just yesterday and looks great.
You can check this (http://distrowatch.com/) site for top ranked distros. (on the right hand side of site in the middle).

[kr4ey]

{QUOTE-> Root is not irrelevant. It would be irrelevant if you logged on all the time as root, but you don't do that. If you get malware with a Linux distro it's because you installed it yourself. Let's say you go to a malicious site and it wants to install malware on your system. It can't do it if you are not running as root. You may get a popup asking you for the root password. If you're stupid enough to enter it, then you may get something, but even in this case the chances of it being a Linux malware are a million to one. With almost 100% certainty it's a Windows exploit, and even if you give it the root password it won't run anyway.

Antivirus applications for Linux are mainly intended for servers that have Windows clients in a network and they look for Windows malware. If you are not using Linux as a mail or file server in this type of environment you do not need an antivirus. <-QUOTE}

Very well said. I agree.

I see alot of comparitives to Windows on the thread.
Windows is NOT the same as Linux.
There is NO WAY to get a virus to infect your system in Linux.

If by some freak of nature you do, it will not go past your home folder.
Because the rest of your system is locked because you are not ROOT
You cannot install anything in Linux without first becoming root.
Windows is a totally open system thats why there is so much malware infecting a windows system.
If your paranoid enough and must have an AV most distros have Clam AV that you have the option to install.

[Johnny123]

{QUOTE-> I see alot of comparitives to Windows on the thread.
Windows is NOT the same as Linux.
<-QUOTE}

That's a big problem, some people seem to think Linux is Windows with a different GUI. I know somebody that sets up PCs for relatives who have no IT experience, they just want to write letters, surf and email. He installs one of the user-friendly distros like Xandros and sets up their email accounts and Kopete or GAIM and shows them how to use it. They don't care what's under the hood as long as it works. Needless to say, he doesn't get any phone calls complaining about the skull and crossbones on the desktop with a popup saying "ur pwned". ;)

[SmiLey497]

if you really need one, ClamAV with GTK front end, if your using ubuntu it is in synaptic

[Arup]

Avast works out quite well with Linux, works nice on my Ubuntu in case I wish to scan attachments on my mails sent from Windows PC.

[Cerxes]

{QUOTE-> ...Needless to say, he doesn't get any phone calls complaining about the skull and crossbones on the desktop with a popup saying "ur pwned". <-QUOTE}

Eh...the skull and crossbones, isn´t that suppose to be there? I mean, isn´t that a part of Windows?...:wacko:


;D /Cerxes.

[Howard Kaikow]

{QUOTE-> Since avast! is the best av for Windows I would think avast! for Linux would be the best for Linux.;) Right now avast! for Linux doesn't have realtime scanning. Avast! will soon have realtime scanning for Linux.:D

I currently don't have Linux on my hard drive, but if I did it would have avast! installed. I'm trying to decide between MEPIS or Ubuntu. I want a free distro with Opera and plays regional DVD's already part of the install. <-QUOTE}

Does the free Avast for Linux have realtime scanning yet?

I seem to be going in circles at their web site trying to find te documentation for version 4.

[tamdam]

{QUOTE-> Does the free Avast for Linux have realtime scanning yet?

I seem to be going in circles at their web site trying to find te documentation for version 4. <-QUOTE}


nope, not according to their website. Anyway if you want on-access, and don't want open source, and don't want to pay a cent, all I can see is

AVG Free
Avira Antivir Classic

but either way, to enable on-access for AVs on linux, you'll need to build and compile dazuko (or at least get a copy of a pre-compiled binary).

Personally, I wouldn't recommend AV on linux, such a waste of resources, I mean 50 linux viruses compared to, what, 300k+ on windows? Not worth it. But if you really insist, I'd say use avira antivir classic.

you may find these links useful:

http://free.grisoft.com/doc/5390/lng/us/tpl/v5#avg-anti-virus-free
http://www.free-av.com/
http://www.dazuko.de/
http://free.grisoft.com/filedir/doc/LINUX_GROUP/AVG_Free_for_Linux/avg_afl_uma_en_75_1.pdf

[zapjb]

Try here.
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=177564

My reasons for having an AV in LINUX.

I deal with friends, loved ones & strangers who 99.99% use M$ Windows of some flavor. Some are incapable & or unwilling to protect their computers.

When I bring something that I downloaded to their computer. I have to be sure it's virus free. I can't depend on their inferior, out of date or nonexistent AVs.

Also it's silly for me to have state this. My computer is my computer. I want control. Not blind faith in others from all over the world.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
In that regard, how can you be sure your kernel (any OS) is not pre-compiled with some super-duper rootkit or that AV itself is not missing this or that etc ... Kind of a chicken and egg problem ... I don't say it happens. Theoretically, it's possible.
Mrk

[Diver]

Most AV's that run on Linux are there to scan for Windows malware on mail, not to protect the linux machine itself.

Like someone said above, its pretty hard to infect a Linux box when running as a limited user and obtaining all software from official repositories.

[tlu]

{QUOTE-> Hello,

Please tell me how such software will get onto your machine?

I'll tell you - except you executing code deliberately, no way.

In the world of Linux, your download sources are official repositories that have everything you need. <-QUOTE}
Agreed - but on the other hand, I know that quite a lot if Linux users add unofficial repositories that contain, e.g., special codecs or other, sometimes legally questionable, stuff. Do you know the maintainers of these unofficial repositories? Are you sure that they look into the sourcecode of the software they include (or they have the knowledge to do this)? I'm not. And I'm afraid that these unofficial repositiories might increasingly become a target for hackers. Of course, you will answer: "Stick with the official repositories, and you won't have this problem!" Right - but many users (regardless if Windows or Linuix users) are not disciplined enough, that's reality.

{QUOTE-> Most of the times you'll be downloading from sources too, so no tricks here.

Even if you download something manually, then you have checksums for everything you download. Just look at the checksum, compare to what you download, if they match, you're all set. <-QUOTE}
Yes, but that wouldn't prevent that this software could include some type of spyware or even a rootkit. And for its installation you usually need root privileges.

That said, I agree with you that risk for Linux is very small. Nevertheless I scan my emails with AntiVir. I want to recognize the mails that contain, e.g., virii even if they target only Windows systems (and of course cross-platform attacks - a proof-of-concept targeted against OpenOffice was published some time ago). And I want to warn my friends who send me mails with "funny" file attaches that their PC is possibly infected.

[FastGame]

{QUOTE-> Most AV's that run on Linux are there to scan for Windows malware on mail, not to protect the linux machine itself.

Like someone said above, its pretty hard to infect a Linux box when running as a limited user and obtaining all software from official repositories. <-QUOTE}
Thats true and makes zapjb point valid. He wants to make sure files he passes around to friends are safe.

IMO more Linux users should share zapjb's concern. Even if your Linux box is safe the infected PC's have an effect on everyone.....they clog the net, suck bandwidth, and attack business that even Linux users deal with. Do Linux users think their credit cards numbers are safe when used online ? because they use Linux :D Doesn't matter what OS or how secure your system, you're only as safe as the security implemented by the instututions you've dealt with.

Some out there (not here) actually think this is a deserving plague for "dumb" windows users, sad. This bug war isn't about MS vs Linux, it impacts everyone whether you believe it or not. Linux doesn't entitle turning a blind eye.

Back to subject:

If you email with attachments, P2P, share files with friends, Avast and F-Prot work nice on Linux. Do your part (no matter how small) in cleaning up this mess ;)

Happy Linux 8)

[clambermatic]

"clamAV", another good choice for Linux too!

clamAV is 'software-Libre'. Initially developed for Linux as a preemptive solution to email infections downloaded via mail-clients incorporated in Penguin.

Penguin powered rigs does not need an AV, period!

The only reason why some like me use Linux AV is to guard emails extracted from servers via my Evolution because majority of corporate mail-servers are win-based. And it's shamefull to sent an infected file via forward/reply to your clients/honchos/associates and infecting them as well. That's the logic why clamAV was developed.

clamAV datfiles' updating can be made automatic via it's scheduled function. In this updating category, clam is known to release updates at a fast clip of hourly-basis... on average it release 2minors/1major a day!

clamAV is pretty lite, non-RAM hoggers, was available for deployment also on winOS (all except 95s' )/BSD/Unix/java. The only holdback is on win-Platform deployment as clamAV is none realtime-scanning abilities, it only runs as on-demand (same as BDefender-FREE). You can set scheduled-scan, but it's non-reactive/proactive.
clamAV (url) here~ http://www.clamwin.com/

BUT NOW... clamAV can be made "proactive/reactive" via a FREE plugin - winPooch.

When plugin-constituted.... clamAV became a powerfull anti av/spyware/malware. C?
winPooch (url) here ~ http://winpooch.free.fr/page/home.php?lang=en&page=home

Try it, winOS users! U will be surpised as to its power in comparison to top-tiered AVs always presented here. Besides, it FREE and infinite (unless announced otherwise), re-distributable too. C?

[dan_maran]

Way to dig up an old post, but since you did.... I find it amusing since on one of the lists I subscribe to a gentleman is trying to sort out his poor rooted box. Granted it is not a virus and or spyware problem but a system hardening issue that needs to be looked into in the regards to a linux box. IPtables, Denyhosts, SElinux, etc. It's all there it just needs to be implemented correctly.

[Trespasser]

Nice to see a lot of Linux users frequent Wilders. Hello. As has been stated, you only need an antivirus if you wish to scan your incoming emails or your Home folder. The rest of the system is pretty well locked down (yes, the beauty of Linux). I personally never ran an antivirus in linux.

Also, KDE sucks (PCLinuxOS). Long live Gnome. HA! I just had to say that. ;D .

Later.

[clambermatic]

Howdy everyone...
I had my own ethos, since i was influenced by openSource folks for quite sometime, and more or less from the very friendly legacy peoples too... as long as we had the resources to help folks in ICT-related issues, more so with seniors (grandpop/mom), then goodness gracious... we should! ;)

Guess am influenced deeply by my buddhist background too. :blink:

[Arup]

PCLOS is for fans of stability and excellent well tested programs on their rep and even though its basically a one man effort, its just incredible to see the numbers of users exceeding the MS of Linux, Ubuntu on Distrowatch. Gotta be some reason for that. KDE is an excellent interface for Window's refugees, makes em feel right at home unlike the good but unfriendly Gnome.

No Linux is bad or better than other, its the choice, thats what its all about.

[zapjb]

Since my last post in this thread 06/22/2007 my thoughts & pratices have changed.

I use Linux, "the Distro Hopper Stopper" PCLinuxOS, more than 98% of the time. And more than 3/4 of the 2% I use XP is updating the OS & security software.

I no longer have Avast or any other AV installed in PCLOS. I just provide links to my M$ using friends.

And I don't find myself fixing many PCs these days. It's a thankless job. Friends don't appreciate the effort. Takes 4-8hrs on average to tame the mess they spent 6 months to 3 years creating. And the paying customers are resentful. I charge $25/hr, 2hr minimum. So to fix their $400 computer it'll cost them $100-$200. It's just plain aggravating working on these low-end computers. They're stock full of crap startup programs & running 512MB RAM. Then as I'm winding down fixing them. I start explaining updating & scanning. And as they're ALL not listening. I hear every FN one of them say, "Now I can just use my computer like before." NO NUMB-NUTS, YOU CAN'T!!!

[Arup]

Good show Zapjb, I too am sticking to PCLOS, no other distro or OS has been able to tempt me away from it, I use XP on a strict need to use basis.

[Firefighter]

{QUOTE-> And more than 3/4 of the 2% I use XP is updating the OS & security software. <-QUOTE} ;D ;D ;D

I just can't say it even better. :)

My distro is SAM 2007.1. The only multilingual distro I've found that was based on PCLOS.

So far I have Avast Linux Home Edition in my SAM and Ewido micro in my USB Flash stick. After 6 months nothing infected were found. ???
Do I have worthless security software? :'( ;D ;D ;D

Best regards,
Firefighter!

PS. There are only from mediocre to excellent painkillers to cure μ$'s OS, but the disease remains. ::)

[steve161]

{QUOTE-> Do I have worthless security software? <-QUOTE}

Yes, you and I probably do. But old habits die hard. However, I do not know if it is a good thing to think your linux box is invulnerable, and you can start clicking on any link that comes your way. I believe it was this line of thinking that did in most Shakespearian characters. A nice feature of PCLOS is the ability to scan folders from the context menu, which comes in handy when sharing files with windowsians.

[Firefighter]

{QUOTE-> Windows is NOT the same as Linux. <-QUOTE}I agree. Actually, if μ$'s Operating Systems were cars, the public authorities will definitely prevent these kind of "quality products" production and selling. ;D

The more we can see news like this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/30/kiwi_teen_botmaster_arrest/), the more the public authorities act like this (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2007/11/29/fbi_botnet_progress_report/), albeit these quys are actually today's Ralph Naders, the Quality Controllers of the Operating Systems. ;D

More or less it seems to be so that the public authorities are actually employees to Mr. μ$ as well. ::)

Best regards,
Firefighter!

[dan_maran]

Again you can have a virus scanner run from a cron, just to quell your fears(personally I don't**) but the more important aspect is to have your linux box hardened it is not really viruses that are the problem in the linux community but more of a server type role in the big picture, ie. ftp(virus dl's)/irc(botnet ctrl)/www(phishing/virus dl's)

Most distros sans Ubuntu(debian?) auto install openssh or similar and leave port 22 open for remote logins, this is a wonderful tool but needs to be watched carefully I use denyhohsts set to 2 invalid attempts then ban. Also if you have things like mysql/php etc. fwd'd to the world you also need to lock these down too.

Also unless your box is super secure I suggest still using a hw router.

[Kerodo]

Router takes care of it all for me inbound, then just Linux, nothing added, no AV, don't think it's needed at all. That's what I love about Linux most, the fact that you don't really need any security software as compared to Win.

[De Hollander]

Question:

Root access is needed to access a core Linux operating system component or to install a patch or some software application that requires root access ?

[dan_maran]

{QUOTE-> Question:

Root access is needed to access a core Linux operating system component or to install a patch or some software application that requires root access ? <-QUOTE}

Yes, in a way. More like root privileges not access.

[De Hollander]

So what happens if millions of consumers start using linux, and install/uninstall applications on a regular bases. Is there no security risk they will just install it?

[zapjb]

{QUOTE-> So what happens if millions of consumers start using linux, and install/uninstall applications on a regular bases. Is there no security risk they will just install it? <-QUOTE}
I laughed when I read this. First all Linux distros combined are estimated (forget where I read this) to occupy only 0.8% of total nonserver installs.

Second Linux is not like M$ OS. Click on a exe & pray. There are at least 3 different file types rpm, deb & tar.gz varieties. My limited understanding is each distro only is able to install 1 type from the get. Without further compatability software & or compiling each piece of software.

Third installing software outside a distros repository (software that has been tested to work) is NOT easy. I remember practically screaming here & at the PCLOS forum, "How the hell do you install software in Linux?" LOL

[Kerodo]

{QUOTE-> So what happens if millions of consumers start using linux, and install/uninstall applications on a regular bases. Is there no security risk they will just install it? <-QUOTE}
As zapjb mentions, most software for Linux comes from repositories for each distro, where it has been compiled, tested, and more or less certified "clean". Kinda like if you downloaded all your Win software from MS or something, although not exactly.. Anyway, the risk this way is very minimal, at most something might break when you update or install something new, but there is no "security" risk to speak of. This is yet another selling point of Linux.

[dan_maran]

{QUOTE-> So what happens if millions of consumers start using linux, and install/uninstall applications on a regular bases. Is there no security risk they will just install it? <-QUOTE}

In order to install software in linux as stated above you have what are called repositories this is where the programs updates etc. go to get "pushed" to clients(your box). There are fairly stringent rules in regards to repos, so mainstream and third party places like livna, Dag etc are all at least "semi-tested" and trusted. Once you venture out to other repos you are on your own, so maybe this could be an issue one day but trust me mainstream repos have almost everything you need, I have only ever had to compile one program from source that I needed and it was HTop for Centos(real need huh?).
Now if you are using the source to "install" a piece of software then you need to know how to make it, so this in itself would deter enough people to hopefully stave off an epidemic.

//EDIT//
#// Sorry about the semi similiar post I was posting and got distracted! //#

[De Hollander]

{QUOTE-> As zapjb mentions, most software for Linux comes from repositories for each distro, where it has been compiled, tested, and more or less certified "clean". Kinda like if you downloaded all your Win software from MS or something, although not exactly.. Anyway, the risk this way is very minimal, at most something might break when you update or install something new, but there is no "security" risk to speak of. This is yet another selling point of Linux. <-QUOTE}


Ok, thx for the explanation. (and likuidkewl)

[iceni60]

once a mozilla repo had a linux virus.

[iceni60]

you can use SElinux or apparmor to profile programs so they can't be exploited.

[dan_maran]

{QUOTE-> once a mozilla repo had a linux virus. <-QUOTE}
I do believe it was a Korean fan site and not an official repos I could be wrong though, but SElinux and AppArmour are good choices to harden your system.

[tlu]

{QUOTE->

Third installing software outside a distros repository (software that has been tested to work) is NOT easy. <-QUOTE}

I disagree. If you get software, e.g., as a deb file from outside the repositories it's usually no problem to install it on a Debian or Ubuntu system. The same is probably true for rpm files under other distros. So the most important rule is: Stick with the official repositories and you're safe.

[zapjb]

{QUOTE-> I disagree. If you get software, e.g., as a deb file from outside the repositories it's usually no problem to install it on a Debian or Ubuntu system. The same is probably true for rpm files under other distros. So the most important rule is: Stick with the official repositories and you're safe. <-QUOTE}
I meant for a newbie to nix.

A 2 yr old can click on a exe.

[clambermatic]

err.... 'SysTrace is another good tool in Penguin boxes too. ;)

[dan_maran]

True precompiled rpms can be an issue, but users need to understand the huge prompt that comes up and says this is from an untrusted source! I am all for removing gui updaters in linux and forcing ppl to use the command line.

[Riverrun]

{QUOTE-> I meant for a newbie to nix.

A 2 yr old can click on a exe. <-QUOTE}

Installing a Deb file is very easy...an intelligent 5 year old could do it. I stick to the Repositories...plenty there to keep me interested.

After 3 months, I hardly boot into windows at all. Linux is the biz.

I know that there is no need but I do have ClamAV installed solely out of consideration for Windows' users. My friends all use MS and some of them are not well protected.

Boy, am I glad I discovered Linux. It's fun and it's educational and really, the basics are not that difficult to grasp and once I learnt a few things, I was away in a hack. I don't want to disparage Windows esp. XP, but personally, I far and away prefer the penguin in the tux.

[tlu]

{QUOTE-> Installing a Deb file is very easy...an intelligent 5 year old could do it. <-QUOTE}

Yes, all you need is the root password.

{QUOTE-> Boy, am I glad I discovered Linux. It's fun and it's educational and really, the basics are not that difficult to grasp and once I learnt a few things, I was away in a hack. I don't want to disparage Windows esp. XP, but personally, I far and away prefer the penguin in the tux. <-QUOTE}

Indeed, and the best thing is that I don't have to spend 50% of my time just to keep my applications and security tools up-to-date. What a relief ...:)

[Arup]

{QUOTE-> True precompiled rpms can be an issue, but users need to understand the huge prompt that comes up and says this is from an untrusted source! I am all for removing gui updaters in linux and forcing ppl to use the command line. <-QUOTE}

Good idea it maybe, Linux will be forever doomed, I will dare not recommend my Windows refugee friends to do the switch from Windows to Linux.

[Riverrun]

No defrag, no virus or spyware scannng, when it's time to do a chkdisc, Linux does it automatically and it doesn't take half the day, a few sudos and I can update and upgrade in seconds. I love it!

[dan_maran]

I have to agree with the comments above, but as I stated a few times in this thread AV's are not really the issue with Linux. We have a 50 client LTSP box that we scan weekly for rootkits and two or three times a week we will fire up WireShark to monitor the traffic for anything out of the ordinary coming from any of the boxes not on the LTSP server. Denyhosts, properly setup IPTables and SeLinux are a simple must for a box always on the internet(directly).