Power Shadow compared to SandBoxIE

[wideglide36]

Hey Guys,

I have been using SandBoxIE for a little while now and I really like it.

Very simple to use and very light on system resources. Hopefully very secure.

I've read the long thread about Power Shadow and was wondering how it compared to SandBoxIE.

Is Power Shadow a lot more secure?

I actually downloaded Power Shadow and tried it briefly but it sort of made my system unstable with freeze ups and crashes. Also, I couldn't figure out how to register it.

The "register" button on the programs interface was greyed out. Do you have to register online at their website rather than through the program itself?

Anyways, like I said I really like SandBoxIE but if Power Shadow is a lot more secure or safer to use than I would like to give it another chance.

Thanks

[Chuck57]

You're the first person who has mentioned PowerShadow making their system unstable - so far as I know. Nobody in the other thread on Powershadow has mentioned any conflicts of any kind that I remember anyway. I don't know what to tell you, unless you got a bad download. I've never seen the register button greyed out.

I've loaded and run PS on four different computers, from brand new to five years old, and haven't run into a problem on any of them. The register button has never been greyed out on any of these machines, nor has there been any conflicts of any kind.

You don't have to register at the Powershadow site. In the other thread is the information on registering. Copy and paste, don't type it in. I don't know why that's necessary, but it seems to work better. But, with the button not working, that isn't possible. I'd say remove powershadow completely and try a download from some other place and see what happens. Is your version 2.6?

As for whether Powershadow is better than Sandboxie. I'm prejudiced toward Powershadow, so doubt I could give a fair reply. Both are very good.

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "You're the first person who has mentioned PowerShadow making their system unstable - so far as I know. Nobody in the other thread on Powershadow has mentioned any conflicts of any kind that I remember anyway. I don't know what to tell you, unless you got a bad download. I've never seen the register button greyed out.

I've loaded and run PS on four different computers, from brand new to five years old, and haven't run into a problem on any of them. The register button has never been greyed out on any of these machines, nor has there been any conflicts of any kind.

You don't have to register at the Powershadow site. In the other thread is the information on registering. Copy and paste, don't type it in. I don't know why that's necessary, but it seems to work better. But, with the button not working, that isn't possible. I'd say remove powershadow completely and try a download from some other place and see what happens. Is your version 2.6?

As for whether Powershadow is better than Sandboxie. I'm prejudiced toward Powershadow, so doubt I could give a fair reply. Both are very good." }-Chuck,

Thanks for the reply.

I was using Version 2.6.

I just thought that since everyone was really liking Power Shadow so much that maybe it had something more to offer than SandBoxIE.

Definitely made my system unstable and the register button was greyed out.

As you said, maybe a bad download. Maybe I'll try another download.

Thanks

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "The "register" button on the programs interface was greyed out. Do you have to register online at their website rather than through the program itself?" }-
You have to start your PC in normal mode, not in Shadow mode. You can't change settings or register during your PC is running in Shadow mode.

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "You have to start your PC in normal mode, not in Shadow mode. You can't change settings or register during your PC is running in Shadow mode." }-
Tommy,

Thank You. That could be the problem with registration. I believe I had it in Shadow Mode at the time.

I'll try it again and see what happens.

[steve161]

sandboxie works great on my system. No conflicts, no slowdown. What is best is that i have the option to run my browser sandboxed or not (k-meleon, check it out, blows away opera as far as speed). Bufferzone had a lot of conficts with my system and powershadow made me really thirsty(drum roll please).

[Espresso]

Try version 2.82 if 2.6 is unstable. Get it from my sig.

[EASTER.2010]

-{ Quote: "and powershadow made me really thirsty(drum roll please)." }-

(Drum Roll :) ) Then why not quench that thirst and put Power Shadow on board. It has got to be the simplest shadow/sandbox i ever dealt with including the install. It simply doesn't get more stable or safe then if you were messing with a text file.

At least that's been the experience reported from the majority including my units who all have it in place now.

I always experienced some issues with Sandboxie but about a week ago i thought i had finally hit pay dirt. I used to get issues from Snoopfree up untill the latest version that also went free to my delight, and now it's completely stable where before i always had to uninstall it and wait for an update. Same with Sandboxie except this latest version began to stall my explorer browser again so i jumped off that bandwagon to wait for another update but then along came Chuck57 and his new find of Power Shadow which is cause for a lot of excitement plus complete satisfaction over here.

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "Try version 2.82 if 2.6 is unstable. Get it from my sig." }-
Thanks for the links.

Still trying to figure out what the differences are between SandBoxIE and Power Shadow.

Do they both do basically the same thing, and why would you choose one over the other?

Thanks

[Chuck57]

The best way I can explain the differences, from my perspective, is that Sandboxie is a sandbox. Powershadow is virtualization. It makes a clone of your drive. If it gets infected in some way, you can reboot and every trace of the infection is gone - or you can watch it do its nasty work until you get tired of it and reboot to get rid of it.

It's good for that; it's good if you have kids who can load up a computer with lord only knows what in a days surfing. Reboot and all traces of their mischief is gone. You can use it to test downloaded software prior to putting it on your hard drive. Nothing gets into your registry to clutter it up.

It's similar to shadowuser/surfer, which I tried to use but had problems with. I went looking for something similar, since I consider virtualization a bit safer than sandboxing, and found Powershadow.

I'd feel safe with Sandboxie or Bufferzone, and have Bufferzone and Powershadow both running at this moment, mainly because me wife was reading the posts over my shoulder and wondered what Powershadow was all about. I engaged it to show her.

As to the more detailed differences, Easter or one of the real experts can probably tell you more.

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "The best way I can explain the differences, from my perspective, is that Sandboxie is a sandbox. Powershadow is virtualization. It makes a clone of your drive. If it gets infected in some way, you can reboot and every trace of the infection is gone - or you can watch it do its nasty work until you get tired of it and reboot to get rid of it.

It's good for that; it's good if you have kids who can load up a computer with lord only knows what in a days surfing. Reboot and all traces of their mischief is gone. You can use it to test downloaded software prior to putting it on your hard drive. Nothing gets into your registry to clutter it up.

It's similar to shadowuser/surfer, which I tried to use but had problems with. I went looking for something similar, since I consider virtualization a bit safer than sandboxing, and found Powershadow.

I'd feel safe with Sandboxie or Bufferzone, and have Bufferzone and Powershadow both running at this moment, mainly because me wife was reading the posts over my shoulder and wondered what Powershadow was all about. I engaged it to show her.

As to the more detailed differences, Easter or one of the real experts can probably tell you more." }-
Chuck,
Thanks for that explanation.

I also tried Shadowsurfer awhile ago and didn't like that you had to reboot a lot.

SandBoxIE just seems to be so much easier.

I think I'll stick with SandBoxIE for now but I'll keep a close eye on Power Shadow.

Thanks again.

[Chuck57]

Sandboxie is a good one, as is my other personal choice, Bufferzone. I think you will be well served by any of them. Glad I could help you make the choice.

[yankinNcrankin]

PowerShadow much easier to use than sandboxie. One click and a confirmation and that is all. With sandboxie theres more chances for human error IMO.

@ wideglide36 may I ask what is your Operating System, AntiVirus, and or HIPS? Curious as to what makes your system unstable just wanted to see what combo of programs you got running on your box. I ask this cause I can run my gaming programs and tools that could easily BSOD some ones comp while I'm in shadow mode with no problems very stable on my end.

[tayres]

-{ Quote: "Thanks for the links.

Still trying to figure out what the differences are between SandBoxIE and Power Shadow.

Do they both do basically the same thing, and why would you choose one over the other?

Thanks" }-

One feature Sandboxie has that PowerShadow does not is the ability to deny programs read access. According to the Sandboxie website FAQ:-{ Quote: "...Sandboxie does not typically stop sandboxed programs from reading your sensitive data. However, by careful configuration of the ClosedFilePath (http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?ClosedFilePath) and ClosedKeyPath (http://www.sandboxie.com/index.php?ClosedKeyPath) settings, you can achieve this goal as well." }-

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "PowerShadow much easier to use than sandboxie. One click and a confirmation and that is all. With sandboxie theres more chances for human error IMO.

@ wideglide36 may I ask what is your Operating System, AntiVirus, and or HIPS? Curious as to what makes your system unstable just wanted to see what combo of programs you got running on your box. I ask this cause I can run my gaming programs and tools that could easily BSOD some ones comp while I'm in shadow mode with no problems very stable on my end." }-
yankin,

Please check my signature for the information about my OS and AV and others.

When I said it made my system unstable I was talking about it causing my pc to freeze and I would have to manually power down the pc. Another time it caused a black screen and then did nothing.

I only used the program for a short time.

As far as Power Shadow being easier to use than SandBoxIE, with SandBoxIE I don't really have to do anything. How can it get any easier than that?

I was mainly concerned in whether Power Shadow was more secure or had a lot more features than SandBoxIE.

Thanks for your response.

[tobacco]

-{ Quote: "One feature Sandboxie has that PowerShadow does not is the ability to deny programs read access." }-

Very good point.

[Rivalen]

Should they be compared?

I would like some help to clearify that. I thought I knew, but now I am uncertain again.

If I do a full day session with PS in shadow mode as my only security software -browsing - going to the bank - everything. I am not "protected" at all? Keyloggers can install and do there job fully during the shadowed session?

If I do the same browsing unshadowed but with browser untrusted under the protection of Sandboxie or Defensewall or BZ and a keylogger that needs a kernel level driver to work - that keylogger (most of them) will be stopped by Sandboxie or DW or BZ - I will be protected?

I am nonsavvy so please correct me. In the scenario above they shouldnt really be compared - they are complements to oneanother and the optimum is to run all your ordinary security software PS shadowed - then you have the best of two worlds -protection and easy 100% (we still believe so) cleanup. This is presuming all software work as usual under PS shadow.

If you only browse or test new program without any bankpasswords or creditcard numbers or similar being used PS is supreme in such a session because normally the tested programs need to be run as trusted to work - many/most? at least - so to test run them untrusted in the sandbox will not work and when you run them trusted the sandbox doesnt protect your system - PS does - after the reboot you are back to good.

So they must be used as they are intended and you cant down right compare them?

Pls comment.

PS I ran - for a copuple of days - all sessions shadowed and saved to USB stick, but it turned out too impractical for me and my PC-habits so now I only run shadowed when the sisters kids are here browsing or if I feel a session could need an easy cleanup.DS

[Huupi]

to install app. in shadowmode for testing and then to finish install sometimes you have to reboot and then everything is lost !?!

huupi

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "Should they be compared?

I would like some help to clearify that. I thought I knew, but now I am uncertain again.

If I do a full day session with PS in shadow mode as my only security software -browsing - going to the bank - everything. I am not "protected" at all? Keyloggers can install and do there job fully during the shadowed session?

If I do the same browsing unshadowed but with browser untrusted under the protection of Sandboxie or Defensewall or BZ and a keylogger that needs a kernel level driver to work - that keylogger (most of them) will be stopped by Sandboxie or DW or BZ - I will be protected?

I am nonsavvy so please correct me. In the scenario above they shouldnt really be compared - they are complements to oneanother and the optimum is to run all your ordinary security software PS shadowed - then you have the best of two worlds -protection and easy 100% (we still believe so) cleanup.

If you only browse or test new program without any bankpasswords or creditcard numbers or similar being used PS is supreme in such a session because normally the tested programs need to be run as trusted to work - many/most? at least - so to test run them untrusted in the sandbox will not work and when you run them trusted the sandbox doesnt protect your system - PS does - after the reboot you are back to good.

So they must be used as they are intended and you cant down right comparae them?

Pls comment." }-

As I understand it, and I'm a pure novice, keyloggers are free to operate in Powershadow's virtualized drive - so info might get out, which is why people using Powershadow, just as those using Sandboxie or Bufferzone or any other, should still have their av, as, and HIPS programs working. Once you leave Powershadow, every trace of them is gone.

I could be wrong about the above, but I'm pretty sure that since the shadowed drive is a virtual clone, all info is accessible. In addition, the drive can be trashed or totally destroyed by a virus, worm, whatever. When you reboot, though, it's all back to normal. No keylogger, virus, trojan, worm, and everything else you did in shadow mode disappears. Hopefully, someone has checked the above somehow and will correct me if I'm wrong.

[Rivalen]

Yup - test shadowed - after reboot all is gone and if you liked the proggie you tested you will have to install it again when not shadowed.

Best Regards

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "to install app. in shadowmode for testing and then to finish install sometimes you have to reboot and then everything is lost !?!

huupi" }-

everything on your computer goes back to where it was before you went into shadow mode, same as most other virtualization software. You can save what you want to an unshadowed drive like a second hard drive, CD, floppy or other device. To install an app, I haven't found a way to do it and keep the installation in shadow mode yet. I run the app, and then if I want it, put the .exe on my second drive, leave shadow mode and then do the install.

[Jarmo P]

-{ Quote: "to install app. in shadowmode for testing and then to finish install sometimes you have to reboot and then everything is lost !?!
" }-

That is a good question.
I have not installed games, since I am no gamer, but I understand that those games that are installed into sandbox continue to work from reboot to reboot until that sandbox is cleared by a user decision. So that seems to be the main difference.

From what I have read PS seems to be a very easy nice program and so is also Sandboxie that I run.

[simmikie]

i read a lot about using powershadow or shadowsurfer/user for installing software. what happens if the software needs to reboot to complete the install?

since shadowing invloves the entire harddrive including My Documents folders, and does not block maleware from functioning within the virtualized drive, is it a good idea to do confidential surfing such as banking shopping?

let's assume a parent actually functions as a parent and monitors/manages child/children internet usage, teaches and enforces responsible surfing. what mess?

random thoughts. i guess one could always powershadow, find some maleware to infect their machines with and watch the train wreck? satisfying and useful indeed.


Mike

[Chuck57]

-{ Quote: "i read a lot about using powershadow or shadowsurfer/user for installing software. what happens if the software needs to reboot to complete the install?

since shadowing invloves the entire harddrive including My Documents folders, and does not block maleware from functioning within the virtualized drive, is it a good idea to do confidential surfing such as banking shopping?

let's assume a parent actually functions as a parent and monitors/manages child/children internet usage, teaches and enforces responsible surfing. what mess?

random thoughts. i guess one could always powershadow, find some maleware to infect their machines with and watch the train wreck? satisfying and useful indeed.


Mike" }-

If you need to reboot your new software, it will all be gone. Been there and tried that. As for confidential banking, etc, I don't do anything anywhere involving anything confidential online, even before I found Powershadow. I just don't trust anyplace to be absolutely totally secure. When kids can break into the FBI, National labs, and compromise banking institutions and other places, I'm not putting my info out there. If they saw my bank account, they'd probably feel sorry for me and leave me alone, anyway.

For those who do the above, being in shadow mode is no different than not being in shadow mode. If you have security software in place, it's in place in shadow mode. No difference, except that when you leave, if you didn't save what you learned onto a cd or someplace else, it will be gone.

[simmikie]

-{ Quote: "If you need to reboot your new software, it will all be gone. Been there and tried that. As for confidential banking, etc, I don't do anything anywhere involving anything confidential online, even before I found Powershadow. I just don't trust anyplace to be absolutely totally secure. When kids can break into the FBI, National labs, and compromise banking institutions and other places, I'm not putting my info out there. If they saw my bank account, they'd probably feel sorry for me and leave me alone, anyway.

For those who do the above, being in shadow mode is no different than not being in shadow mode. If you have security software in place, it's in place in shadow mode. No difference, except that when you leave, if you didn't save what you learned onto a cd or someplace else, it will be gone." }-

hey Chuck, i am merely reflecting what people claim the value of these "full service" sandbox programs are. as i see it it's usless for testing software as most apps these days do require a reboot to complete, and powershadow and others will simply evaporate the app.

and incidently i am a licensed user of Shadow User, tried Shadowsurfer but i wanted to be able to save the stuff i installed/downloaded, which the Surfer version does not allow.

in ShadowUser you can save an installation before rebooting, but how useful is that? it can't be run to evaluate, if it does indeed require a reboot. if you don't save it you'll lose it. wtf!

it does not seem to be a good idea to surf shadowed as the entire volume is exposed to keylogs and other pilfering maleware. sure any changes will be wiped as you come out of shadow, but your confidential info is at risk of compromise until then. Shadowuser at least does allow exclusion folders, and both Powershadow and Shadowuser/surfer allow partitioning. if your box is already set-up as...fine, otherwise appears to me to be a lot of bother for minimal advantages.

i am not necessarily knocking these apps as i mentioned, i sacrificed $70 bucks to the virtualization lords, i am just now wondering why?

Sandboxie which i also have installed (have not and probably will not attempt to run them together) and it gives me what i in my advanced age crave....choices. i run what i want sandboxed, when i want it for as long as i want. although Sandboxie does not allow the loading of services, so the installation of major apps within a sandboxie is not possible it is very good for running minor stuff in like docs, zipped files, P2P sandboxed, and other common sources of nusainces in.

a big plus for me is stuff remains in the sandbox, until it's deliberately reteived or deleted without needing a reboot. and quick recover is ridiculously simple. even i haven't botched to date :D

is it the most secure....no. i think Bufferzone, Defensewall, Powershadow, Shadowuser/surfer are stronger containment virtualizations, but i do still employ other security measures as in a strong AV, AS, FW, and HIPS to hopefully corral escaped boogaloos. and an added plus is the developer, Tzuk, is flat on it. this guy is totally commited to the development/improvement of Sandboxie, and for me that counts alot. timely support and answers/resolutions are his forte, and each of the 3 upgrades i have personally installed of Sandboxie have been better than the previous one.


Mike

[Chuck57]

I use the latest Bufferzone free which despite what they say on their website works with just about everything on my computer. No need to download a special one for this or that application - you just can't have them opened at the same time, and am looking forward to beta testing the new BZ 2.50 that's coming out in a week or so.

Anyway, I understand what you're saying. For me, after playing with Powershadow for a week, and having the impression I was totally secure, I realized that I still needed most of the security apps I did before I downloaded PS. It will save your computer from destruction. Nothing has beaten it yet, and Easter, yanknNcrankin, espresso and others have put it through some pretty serious tests. But, if you're concerned about stuff going off your drive to some clown out there, it isn't the answer. I'm not sure anything is absolutely safe these days.

What Powershadow does is allow me to play with software and see if I want to keep it without adding more garbage to my registry, since there doesn't seem to be a registry cleaner that will absolutely guaranteed remove all the useless stuff, and I've tried 4 or 5 of them.

Powershadow will also allow me to let my grandkids use the computer when they visit, do whatever horrors they do, and when it's over, just reboot and my computer is back to where it was. That, all by itself is a blessing.

[yankinNcrankin]

Bottom line, PowerShadow saves me the amount of time that I would need to restore my system to a clean state after doing live maleware tests and testing of programs that do no require reboot, this is what I use this program for, TimeSaving that is all. :) The beauty of it is, I have not ran into a conflict where I was unable to run any or all of my programs in shadow mode which is just a bonus for what I use this program for.

[Huupi]

It's my experience that in full shadow mode all attached ext. drives are protected too,hence everything i write to external is gone after reboot !!
I see no way to exclude these externals from being protected,otherwise i can go in single mode and that's fine,but now in full shadow mode i have to disconnect the externals and afterthat i can reboot to keep the modifications on the external drives !?!

huupi

[Chuck57]

Thanks, huupi. I've never tried full shadow mode. I want my two CD's and second drive for saving things.

[simmikie]

-{ Quote: "

" }-

-{ Quote: "I see no way to exclude these externals from being protected" }-

ShadowUser allows the exclusion of files/folders/drives/partitions from a shadow session. from what i have read some users have their systems set-up to take advantage of this capabilities.


Mike

[simmikie]

-{ Quote: "PowerShadow saves me the amount of time that I would need to restore my system to a clean state after doing live maleware tests" }-

yeah that's some edgy stuff. i prefer to let live maleware powerwalk on someone elses system, so i save time by not doing the testing!


Mike

[yankinNcrankin]

-{ Quote: "yeah that's some edgy stuff. i prefer to let live maleware powerwalk on someone elses system, so i save time by not doing the testing!


Mike" }-
As u said edgy stuff so best you leave the fun stuff for us fun testers, you go stay in the corner where its not so edgy. ;D
I think thats why your system got breached and you didnt even know it LOL! I mean how could you know seeing as your security never made a sound when it happened? Too bad you never was edgy enough to test your system in real life scenarios to see if the security you got on your box is really doing what it suppose to .
Yep Powershadow is alot more easy and faster to do these tests.

[simmikie]

-{ Quote: "As u said edgy stuff so best you leave the fun stuff for us fun testers, you go stay in the corner where its not so edgy. ;D
I think thats why your system got breached and you didnt even know it LOL! I mean how could you know seeing as your security never made a sound when it happened? Too bad you never was edgy enough to test your system in real life scenarios to see if the security you got on your box is really doing what it suppose to .
Yep Powershadow is alot more easy and faster to do these tests." }-

seems as though i might have hit a nerve...so sorry. if you want to yank yourself spending time infecting your own computer,that is fine by me. happy trails...i am sure you and edgy will be very happy together.


Mike

[yankinNcrankin]

-{ Quote: "seems as though i might have hit a nerve...so sorry. if you want to yank yourself spending time infecting your own computer,that is fine by me. happy trails...i am sure you and edgy will be very happy together.


Mike" }-
LOL, you hit a nerve? Don't flatter yourself. Simple response to your post which was off topic. yank myself? You being sarcasstic or you simply being a DI*K? Maybe both :) Never ever got infected using PowerShadow very easy and simple, makes my testing of malware fun and easy.
Hey Mike just 'cause I can don't be J

[EASTER.2010]

-{ Quote: "seems as though i might have hit a nerve...so sorry. if you want to yank yourself spending time infecting your own computer,that is fine by me. happy trails...i am sure you and edgy will be very happy together." }-

Don't forget to include me in that mix of yanking malware battles into and throughout my own system because, THE MORE YOU LEARN THE BETTER INFORMED YOU BECOME for the benefit of others as well as yourself.

See anything wrong with that perspective? I gladly & Galantly place my system and NERVES :o deliberately at risk to better inform members like yourself and so do the others that you seem to find some ingratitude with.

I would if in those same shoes offer some appreciation instead of make light of their efforts which greatly serves to better improve the very security programs that you yourself rely on for your own systems safety and the confidence you enjoy.

[Chuck57]

You're appreciated Easter, as is YanknNcrankin and the rest, especially for the help with PowerShadow.

[wideglide36]

-{ Quote: "You're appreciated Easter, as is YanknNcrankin and the rest, especially for the help with PowerShadow." }-
I'll second that!

Thanks guys for all the helpful info.

[poirot]

My sincere thanks to those like nankinNcranckin&Easter2010, who make those tests and divulge the outcome for anyone's benefit.

[EASTER.2010]

I don't mind at all, most malware/rootkits i now truly find amusing since you can rest easy, sit back, and watch them go bonkers on your system scrambling like a thief in the night to hook your startup menu thru the registry while you're watching a program like System Safety Monitor repeatedly answer NO! NO! NOT ALLOWED!, No can do ;D It's become fun where before it used to make for biting nails and holding your breathe :-X

Not anymore, and Power Shadow puts the proverbial icing on the cake as far as safety from those fanatical malware files AFAIK. :thumb:

I just rock in my chair with delight at watching malware throw a hissey fit ;D

[EASTER.2010]

Also should mention that it's also just good sense to place POWER SHADOW'S running processes into safer yet "Protection", for example SSM affords one to add any process entries "Keep Process In Memory" and should any of them become terminated, will immediately restart it again unless someone has cleverly to develop some way to immediately wipe a file while microseconds terminated. :dry:

[simmikie]

-{ Quote: "See anything wrong with that perspective?" }-

i never did.....for you or yankmaster. i believe i indicated that is not how i choose to spend my computing time. and as i also beleive i indicated, there is different software for different users.

as dedicated as you are to the field of security, i am sure your findings are widely publicised. is there a particular publication/forum to which you publish your maleware test findings?


Mike