Compare FDISR with MS shared computer toolkit for xp

[Horus37]

Has anyone ever used MS shared computer toolkit? It sounds like it works like the "frozen snapshot" function of FDISR. It's nice that it's free. I might download it into a snapshot and see what happens. It will probably interfere with it as it freezes the computer also. We'll see who wins when I let fdisr and shared computer toolkit fight it out.

[Peter2150]

Horus

Bad idea. Don't blame FDISR if you screw up your computer. Also don't except to much help if it does get screwed up. Better yet image your system first.

Pete

[Horus37]

Do you have any experience with MS shared computer toolkit?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Do you have any experience with MS shared computer toolkit? <-QUOTE}

I don't, and honestly I have no interest in it. FDISR has done what I need perfectly. I did try Rollback and ran into problems. So I don't experiment, I just use and rely on FDISR.

Pete

[Horus37]

Well for someone who self professes to try out all sorts of software you sure don't seem too inquisitive for a free product that acts like power shadow. Although it doesn't have the backup features of FDISR it doesn't cost 70 dollars either. I'm currently writing this inside a snapshot of FDISR inside a power shadow session that is booted up inside a limited user account with avast Anti virus and comodo firewall all the while having almost all my services turned off. Nothing wrong with being inquisitive.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Well for someone who self professes to try out all sorts of software you sure don't seem too inquisitive for a free product that acts like power shadow. Although it doesn't have the backup features of FDISR it doesn't cost 70 dollars either. I'm currently writing this inside a snapshot of FDISR inside a power shadow session that is booted up inside a limited user account with avast Anti virus and comodo firewall all the while having almost all my services turned off. Nothing wrong with being inquisitive. <-QUOTE}

I try all sorts of software up to a point. There is also a whole lot I have absolutely no interest in trying. With VMware Workstation, and FDISR, I just have no need for Power Shadow. There is a time limit to how much one can fool with. The software has to have some point that fits with how I actually do my business before I'll fool with it.

Also free vs $70 doesn't really bother me, as long as the software serves a purpose. In FDISR's case it is critical to me, so I actually have 3 licenses.

Pete

[Peter2150]

Horus

To further answer you, I just went and refreshed my memory to the fact that Power Shadow is similar in nature to Shadowuser. I already tried that and just didn't like the concept compared to FDISR. I see no reason to try another version of the same thing

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Nothing wrong with being inquisitive. <-QUOTE}
Right, but every user has his own plans/interests and does what feels right to him. I never expect that users will do the same like I do. I'm just telling them what I did and I don't care if they like it or not.

If you like to disable as many services as possible, do it, but don't be surprised that some day it will cause problems and don't expect any help either, because none of us will know what you did to Windows.

If you like to use MS Shared Computer Toolkit, do it and tell us all about it and inform us about advantages, disadvantages, differences, etc., but don't expect that everybody will do the same.

I don't use MS Shared Computer Toolkit, because it takes time to study this software and I'm not a big fan of the mediocre MS Applications either.
That's why I replaced MS Windows System Restore with FDISR, because FDISR saves me also when I can't even boot to Windows.
Another big advantage of FDISR is the very short time of recovery (= reboot-time). If I'm in serious trouble, I like to get rid of it as QUICK and as EASY as possible and without needing a deep knowledge of Windows.
Another big advantage of FDISR is that I can create different independent work environments without having the disadvantages of partitions.

Just proof to me, Peter and other members that the freeware MS Shared Computer Toolkit does a better job than FDISR.
Besides that I never use money as a parameter to make a choice between softwares.
Money is NOT a software feature/function, money is just paper.

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Do you have any experience with MS shared computer toolkit? <-QUOTE}
As an old Coast Guard friend of mine used to say, "I don't have to slam my crank in the door to know I don't like it."

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Well for someone who self professes to try out all sorts of software you sure don't seem too inquisitive for a free product that acts like power shadow. Although it doesn't have the backup features of FDISR it doesn't cost 70 dollars either. I'm currently writing this inside a snapshot of FDISR inside a power shadow session that is booted up inside a limited user account with avast Anti virus and comodo firewall all the while having almost all my services turned off. Nothing wrong with being inquisitive. <-QUOTE}
I've never known Pete to "self profess," as you put it.

Regarding your current system setup, I have two questions:

1) Based on the description of your current setup, it seems that you already own FDISR. If that is the case and you've already bought it, why are you interested in trying MS shared computer toolkit (especially if it offers less and it's from MS)?

2) Why would a person need to run a system that consists of a power shadow session that contains FDISR under a limited user account with all services turned off?

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I try all sorts of software up to a point. There is also a whole lot I have absolutely no interest in trying. With VMware Workstation, and FDISR, I just have no need for Power Shadow. There is a time limit to how much one can fool with. The software has to have some point that fits with how I actually do my business before I'll fool with it.

Also free vs $70 doesn't really bother me, as long as the software serves a purpose. In FDISR's case it is critical to me, so I actually have 3 licenses.

Pete <-QUOTE}


Well I can't use VMware workstation on my xphome laptop hence I'm getting xp pro installed into a blank snapshot in the near future. However, my point was that since you seem to test out alot of software I'm surprised you've never run across MS shared computer toolkit before. It's been out so long I thought surely all these people on these websites clamoring for the next new free cool security app would have heard and tried it. Guess not. No biggie. I've read enough about it but since I'm VM challenged at the moment it's hard to test as much as I'd like- ALAS all the questions. If I had my own VM I'd be testing instead of posting. FDISR isn't so great for testing software as the freeze function erases the install when you reboot. It's VM ware or nothing really.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Well I can't use VMware workstation on my xphome laptop hence I'm getting xp pro installed into a blank snapshot in the near future. However, my point was that since you seem to test out alot of software I'm surprised you've never run across MS shared computer toolkit before. It's been out so long I thought surely all these people on these websites clamoring for the next new free cool security app would have heard and tried it. Guess not. No biggie. I've read enough about it but since I'm VM challenged at the moment it's hard to test as much as I'd like- ALAS all the questions. If I had my own VM I'd be testing instead of posting. FDISR isn't so great for testing software as the freeze function erases the install when you reboot. It's VM ware or nothing really. <-QUOTE}
If you want to test a software with FDISR for a few days, you use a test snapshot, not a frozen snapshot.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> Right, but every user has his own plans/interests and does what feels right to him. I never expect that users will do the same like I do. I'm just telling them what I did and I don't care if they like it or not.

If you like to disable as many services as possible, do it, but don't be surprised that some day it will cause problems and don't expect any help either, because none of us will know what you did to Windows.

If you like to use MS Shared Computer Toolkit, do it and tell us all about it and inform us about advantages, disadvantages, differences, etc., but don't expect that everybody will do the same.

I don't use MS Shared Computer Toolkit, because it takes time to study this software and I'm not a big fan of the mediocre MS Applications either.
That's why I replaced MS Windows System Restore with FDISR, because FDISR saves me also when I can't even boot to Windows.
Another big advantage of FDISR is the very short time of recovery (= reboot-time). If I'm in serious trouble, I like to get rid of it as QUICK and as EASY as possible and without needing a deep knowledge of Windows.
Another big advantage of FDISR is that I can create different independent work environments without having the disadvantages of partitions.

Just proof to me, Peter and other members that the freeware MS Shared Computer Toolkit does a better job than FDISR.
Besides that I never use money as a parameter to make a choice between softwares.
Money is NOT a software feature/function, money is just paper. <-QUOTE}

I don't really care if people like what I do or not either. As I've said before I don't have a VM ware setup yet so it's hard for me to test software. Hence since the MS product had been out for so long I'd figured that someone would have ran across it by now and had an opinion on it.

I do like FDISR but I'm not married to it. I find power shadow different and better than shadowuser. I find that FDISR still needs apps to be run concurrently with it to be secure if one surf with it in frozen mode. Better safe than sorry. And I refuse to believe you are against turning off services. If you don't want to answer questions don't. Just don't but in and tell us every time I post a question that you don't want to answer questions if people elect to turn off services. You sound like a broken record. I'm not directing questions to you anyways. If I was I'd PM you. We all are here to learn not subscribe to scare tactics.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> If you test a software with FDISR for a few days, you use a test snapshot, not a frozen snapshot. <-QUOTE}


Of course installing into a snapshot for a few days to test out but I don't have perfect disk 8 and these constant defrags I have to do leaves me a bit leary when constantly creating and destroying snapshots. I have about 7 snapshots right now as it is plus numberous archives. I really want VM ware for all this testing in addition to FDISR.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I don't really care if people like what I do or not either. As I've said before I don't have a VM ware setup yet so it's hard for me to test software. Hence since the MS product had been out for so long I'd figured that someone would have ran across it by now and had an opinion on it.

I do like FDISR but I'm not married to it. I find power shadow different and better than shadowuser. I find that FDISR still needs apps to be run concurrently with it to be secure if one surf with it in frozen mode. Better safe than sorry. And I refuse to believe you are against turning off services. If you don't want to answer questions don't. Just don't but in and tell us every time I post a question that you don't want to answer questions if people elect to turn off services. You sound like a broken record. I'm not directing questions to you anyways. If I was I'd PM you. We all are here to learn not subscribe to scare tactics. <-QUOTE}
You seem to judge FDISR very quickly, learn first how to use it correctly.
No experienced user will use a frozen snapshot to test software for more than one day.
And FDISR is not a security software of any kind.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> I've never known Pete to "self profess," as you put it.

Regarding your current system setup, I have two questions:

1) Based on the description of your current setup, it seems that you already own FDISR. If that is the case and you've already bought it, why are you interested in trying MS shared computer toolkit (especially if it offers less and it's from MS)?

2) Why would a person need to run a system that consists of a power shadow session that contains FDISR under a limited user account with all services turned off? <-QUOTE}




If you haven't heard Pete self profess to test out software you've missed the whole VM ware thread.

1. Yes I've got FDISR and If find that it's constant needs of defragging is a bit mind numbing and confusing as I've got 7 snapshots and many more archives on an external USB hdd. It's much faster to use a VM than FDISR. But I'm on xp home right now which limits my ability to use VM ware. I can use VMplayer but not workstation. And since alot of people here use VM workstation I figured somone might have tired this MS product already. It's alot of reading for that product. However it sounds like the freeze option of FDISR and it's free. I like testing out all the free software as I'm sure you do.

2. You ask WHY I would have such a setup on my computer? Well I don't think it's obsessively over the top on security setups. I've seen people on here with lots more security setups than mine. I think turning off unneeded services is prudent if you can manage to do so without disrupting your current security apps. Lots of people here do that. I did happen to catch a rootkit however and so ever since that happened I'm way more careful with my setup.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Yes I've got FDISR and If find that it's constant needs of defragging is a bit mind numbing and confusing as I've got 7 snapshots and many more archives on an external USB hdd. <-QUOTE}
FDISR doesn't need constant defragging. I defrag as much as I did before using FDISR.
Frankly, I don't see any difference before or after defragging, maybe I have to wait alot longer with defragging to see the difference, which means less defragging instead of more defragging.

[stapp]

After reading this and other threads, thought I'd like to make a few comments.

You know Horus you remind me of a mountaineer who climbs, and when asked why, replies "because it's there". Of course there is nothing wrong with that. Sometimes I get the impression though that you have decided to climb a mountain with no oxygen and one hand tied behind your back just to see if you can do it.
Sometimes I also get the impression that you don't like it when people suggest it may not be a good idea!

I also get the impression you may not be as old as me.

I agree with Erik that you trying out other software and passing on knowledge gained on pluses and losses is useful. However I dislike your assumptions about Peter. His computer and software knowledge has saved me from creating messes perhaps I would have found difficult to cope with.

Sometimes Horus you have to listen, even if you don't like what you hear.

Don't alienate people whom you may need help and advice from in the future, not a good idea!!
Just enjoy the FD-ISR forum as I do, enjoy the company, share your knowledge, and recieve it from others here.

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Sometimes Horus you have to listen, even if you don't like what you hear.

Don't alienate people whom you may need help and advice from in the future, not a good idea!! <-QUOTE}
Very good advice. I still struggle with that and although it is not easy to do, most people can benefit by listeing to what you just said.

[Peter2150]

HI Horus

Actually I've described what I do with VM machines, but other than adding Shadowprotect to the mix I really don't think I said I test a larger variety of software. I don't. Bascially I test stuff, I am interested in using.

As to the MS toolkit thing, I've known about it for a long time, read the description, on the MS website, and just flat am not interested. FDISR is just a much better tool.

As to the defragging issue, I do understand what you are talking about it, but I've reduced that to a minor issue, by the way I work. I've never used the freeze function at all. If I am going to undertake risky surfing, I just update an archive, and have at it. Then I can accomplish the same thing as freeze. I just try and keep things simple.

Also I wouldn't rely on FDISR,Shadowuser, or Powershadow alone as a security measure. I am sure they all have the possiblity of being corrupted. If I am going to something all that risky, I image first to a disk, I can turn off.

Pete

[Peter2150]

Hi Horus

I saw your MS tool kit question in the other forum and now I remember why I didn't look at it. It was the partition issue. That was the non starter for me.

[ErikAlbert]

Horus,

A frozen snapshot removes all changes during the next reboot, but that doesn't mean you are safe during the period between TWO reboots.
When a malware is able to install itself during that period, it is possible that it will do its evil job during that period.
So even a frozen snapshot needs security softwares to prevent the installation and certainly the execution of malware.

The REMOVAL of malware is in theory complete in a frozen snapshot and that is much better and faster than any malware scanner.

A frozen snapshot doesn't see the difference between good and bad changes, so all changes are removed during the next reboot and the fact that it removes also good changes is a problem.
Security softwares need their regular updatings and those updatings are removed during the next reboot in a frozen snapshot and that requires a solution.

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> Horus,

A frozen snapshot removes all changes during the next reboot, but that doesn't mean you are safe during the period between TWO reboots.
When a malware is able to install itself during that period, it is possible that it will do its evil job during that period.
So even a frozen snapshot needs security softwares to prevent the installation and certainly the execution of malware.

The REMOVAL of malware is in theory complete in a frozen snapshot and that is much better and faster than any malware scanner.

A frozen snapshot doesn't see the difference between good and bad changes, so all changes are removed during the next reboot and the fact that it removes also good changes is a problem.
Security softwares need their regular updatings and those updatings are removed during the next reboot in a frozen snapshot and that requires a solution. <-QUOTE}



Yes I figured as much so I've never run FDISR in a frozen snapshot surfing without first having my comodo fw up and Avast AV going as well. I feel reasonably secure with that. However recently I've started using power shadow at bootup in a shapshot and it allows it to run under a limited user account which is great so that's what I currently do when not testing software. However I've been testing 3-5 programs a day lately so I've been getting a bit tired of all the creating and deleting of snapshots then defragging etc... I find that if you can find a program that doesn't require you to reboot after install then power shadow is the ideal inside a snapshot because when you reboot you don't need to defrag. When you install a product even in a frozen shapshot you end up needing a defrag after you reboot oddly. Since I have so many snapshots and archives I'm wishing I had bought perfect disk 8 now. I found a program called ccleaner that also works with perfect disk 8. Don't know what it cleans inside of perfect disk 8 but I'll wait till the new FDISR beta get out of beta then I'll buy it and perfect disk 8 then.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Yes I figured as much so I've never run FDISR in a frozen snapshot surfing without first having my comodo fw up and Avast AV going as well. I feel reasonably secure with that. However recently I've started using power shadow at bootup in a shapshot and it allows it to run under a limited user account which is great so that's what I currently do when not testing software. However I've been testing 3-5 programs a day lately so I've been getting a bit tired of all the creating and deleting of snapshots then defragging etc... I find that if you can find a program that doesn't require you to reboot after install then power shadow is the ideal inside a snapshot because when you reboot you don't need to defrag. When you install a product even in a frozen shapshot you end up needing a defrag after you reboot oddly. Since I have so many snapshots and archives I'm wishing I had bought perfect disk 8 now. I found a program called ccleaner that also works with perfect disk 8. Don't know what it cleans inside of perfect disk 8 but I'll wait till the new FDISR beta get out of beta then I'll buy it and perfect disk 8 then. <-QUOTE}
I use CCleaner myself. CCleaner is very good in history cleaning, but the registry cleaner of CCleaner is lesser good IMO.
I also use PerfectDisk, but I only defrag once a month and I never see the difference before or after the defragmentation.

My only problem is the combination "frozen snapshot & security softwares". It doesn't work like I expected.
Anchoring makes a frozen snapshot constantly vulnerable for malware.
Refreezing or Unfreeze/Freeze is good as long you don't freeze possible malwares and needs to be done right after reboot.
My experience with freezing is that it doesn't freeze all updatings of security softwares.
There is something wrong and I can't nail the problem.

[RobZee]

{QUOTE->
I agree with Erik that you trying out other software and passing on knowledge gained on pluses and losses is useful. However I dislike your assumptions about Peter. His computer and software knowledge has saved me from creating messes perhaps I would have found difficult to cope with.
<-QUOTE}

I have learned a great deal from following the posts regarding Rollback RX and FDISR. Without the discussions by the various forum members, I wouldn't have been able to use any of these products. In fact, I think I would have gotten into a great deal of trouble.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Well for someone who self professes to try out all sorts of software you sure don't seem too inquisitive for a free product that acts like power shadow. <-QUOTE} Yo Horus, Pete has never claimed to have tried every product out there.

You keep saying, "I can't believe none of you have heard/or tried MS Shared Computer Toolkit," Pete never said he didn't hear of it, he has no interest in trying it.

Pete was only trying to give you sound advice to avoid the castastrophies you will eventually run into. FD-ISR has a whole lot to offer, you need to spend the time to understand it first.

[Meriadoc]

Horus37 :
{QUOTE-> Well I can't use VMware workstation on my xphome laptop hence I'm getting xp pro installed into a blank snapshot in the near future. <-QUOTE}
As this is the only way I can ask you, why?

[Horus37]

{QUOTE-> Yo Horus, Pete has never claimed to have tried every product out there.

You keep saying, "I can't believe none of you have heard/or tried MS Shared Computer Toolkit," Pete never said he didn't hear of it, he has no interest in trying it.

Pete was only trying to give you sound advice to avoid the castastrophies you will eventually run into. FD-ISR has a whole lot to offer, you need to spend the time to understand it first. <-QUOTE}



Hijacking a discussion without reading all the relavant discussions tends to make people look a bit foolish. Case and point the above remark.

Where this discussion SHOULD be going is a discussion about those that might have tried this software and can offer up some sort of educated opinion. I don't direct all my questions to pete nor albert. What you are missing is pete and albert are concerned that because I've elected to turn off certain services they can't help trouble shoot problems. Fine. Never asked them directly for help. I find it funny that after I find an error in my MBR after uninstalling FDISR this must erk pete more than he lets on as I now am the subject of repeated attacks for no other reason than trying to streamline and secure my system and making fdisr somehow look bad? I don't know if he sells this product or what but if I could use a term I've heard on here before -fanboy- I think I understand what that term now means. I like FDISR as much as anyone however reading the tiny incomplete manual that comes with the program is just barely adequate to understand the basics. Constantly harping to read this thing over and over again does no good as my questions go above and beyond the basics hence my questions to the board since it's not covered in the manual. Not to keep dredging up old posts so I won't go there but I feel the way this thread should be going is those OTHER than pete and albert that have experience with ms shared computer toolkit, could they offer up an opinion on it compared to fdisr? I suppose I could start another new thread about "services" and put that in my signature line as a "warning" that I've done so to my computer. Perhaps I'll run my own class on what services are appropriate to run and not run since I seem now to be the board guru of turning off services and flying by the seat of my pants.::) I take most forms of advice but frown on those that come across as patronizing.

Most of you responding have obviously been here a long time .. As you can see by the number of posts I have I'm new to this board but not new to computers by any means. You've motivated me all to really hammer now on this "services" thing so I'll make that my topic of choice for the next few weeks since it seems so many here freak out at the idea of turning off services and it's unknown affects on FDISR software. How about we all learn something instead of sticking our heads in the sand and warning people not to do such crazy behavior. Turning of services can actualy make your system more secure period. If you'd just participate in learning more about this area and less about brow beating people for wanting to know more about this area we'd get somewhere

[Peter2150]

Holy Wow.

Hey Horus, it doesn't erk me a bit that you had an mbr error after uninstalling FDISR. Maybe it was FDISR, maybe not. I found a major bug, so who is to say there might not be more.

Frankly what you are doing with services is somewhat interesting, just it carries certain risks. While back I tested a new registry cleaner and I did the backup thing, and let it have it. Machine really seemed faster, and I was impressed. No apparent ill effects, so I thought. About 2.5 months later I did another office update, and it wouldn't work. I suspected maybe the registry cleanup might be an issue, but it was way to long to restore it. It proved to really be a mess. That is the risk we were trying to convey. You might not see the effects for now.

You are right some of these services do put the computer at risk. But MRK, made a good point a while back with how many times has your computer security actually stopped something. In most cases the answer is never. My choice is to let the computer run, and use FDISR help neurtralize the risk.

But to continue to test, and do continue to post the results, they can be interesting, and useful to others.

Cheers,

Pete

Oh one other note. No I don't sell FDISR, although I'd be proud to do so. My enthusiasm, like many others here stems from the number of times FDISR has bailed me out of messes, I've made.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> My enthusiasm, like many others here stems from the number of times FDISR has bailed me out of messes, I've made. <-QUOTE}

Amen, Amen, Amen!!! 8)

Acadia

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Hijacking a discussion without reading all the relavant discussions tends to make people look a bit foolish. Case and point the above remark. <-QUOTE} I have read all the relavant disscussions "How could we miss them".

When you made the statement "self professes" you were saying Peter had tried all software and all software means the Shared Toolkit included. I disagreed like Dallen and some others.

Horus, I think your missing the picture here. There is nothing wrong with learning but since you don't understand FD-ISR yet and your throwing all this other stuff into the mix at the same time you will end up with problems. You may not discover the problem right away and then it will make it all the more difficult to track down what you did. If you don't want to take heed to it that is your right. Just don't blame FD-ISR for the problem.



{QUOTE-> If you'd just participate in learning more about this area and less about brow beating people for wanting to know more about this area we'd get somewhere <-QUOTE} I'm sorry you feel that way. I think its more like some members were trying to save you some grief by being honest.