Partitioning for better management of computer

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: ".........
If nothing else, you might consider partitioning the hard drive, putting system files on one partition and user files on the other, then make a backup of the system partition that can be restored as needed.
Rick" }-

Hello Herb long time no post!

I was thinking of partitioning myself for management of my PC. I don't know if you have done it or not yourself. My plan would be roughly this:

C for windows and all programs I own
S for all scanned images and photos
D all other user data, word, quicken, excel etc etc
M for music


The external hard drive would mirror those and be used strictly for archival images of the primary disk partitions

What do you or anybody else think of this scheme? Is it too complex or flawed in some way?

I happen to use Paragon for backup and partition management.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Or better yet, barricade the pc with group policies and security restriction policies. For those virtued with patience, a full tutorial is on the way :).

Mrk

[wilbertnl]

Do you have one hard disk or more?
If you have one, I would just create a system partition and one data partition.
Separate partitions for scans and music sounds good, but the disadvantage is that you get three data partitions and you could end up with too much space free on one of them, while short on space on another.
You gain the same effect with simple separate folders in one data partition.

[Genady Prishnikov]

I agree with wilbertnl. The folders would give you exactly the same thing. The other advantage of simply two partitions also lies in the fact that you could easily image your DATA partition in minutes and have all of your scans, music, etc. without the need for multiple images.

Speaking of drives...I saw a new OneTB (yes, terabyte) drive in the circulars today for $400. That's right .40 a GB. Who would have ever thought? Look at Flash Drives - the latest Corsair Voyager USB Flash Drive is out with 16GB! It's the same size as the 2GB. Of course, the cost per gig is still high, but they will soon fall dramatically. It's a whole new world.

Good luck!

[Long View]

I prefer to have 3 partitions - system, data and storage. I can make images of system and data to storage more quickly than I can to external USB and network drives. Every now and then when not busy I then transfer to other storage ( DVD, USB or network). Having system images in the storage partition allows for quick system restoration. I have used this restoration 5 times today already while testing new programs.

[egghead]

-{ Quote: "Do you have one hard disk or more?
If you have one, I would just create a system partition and one data partition.
" }-

Yes, this the way to go imo. You can add a partition on which you put an image.

this is how I work (on the moment).

I have 1 HD partitionned as follows:
C: system
D: data
H: test partition=copy of C. I use this for trialing software.
Image of C I have put on DVD.

[Rmus]

I also agree with wilbertnl. Twice this year I've had to re-size when one partition became full. Early next year I'm going to combine my D:\ E:\ F:\ partitions into one, with Identifier folders for the various categories.

(I also have a second internal HD G:\ for photo storage, and external HD for backup.)

In the "old" days, having a number of partitions with various cluster sizes for better disk utilization was popular (my intitial reason for doing it). But that is no longer of much use.

One nice added advantage I've enjoyed by having a separate system partition is protecting it with Deep Freeze. In addition to being a security feature, it negates the necessity for HD maintenance on that partition. On each reboot, all temp files, MRU registry entries, and other such stuff just goes away.

-rich

[Notok]

I don't think I would ever want to go back to a single partition. Having at least one second partition makes management a lot easier, and gives a lot of piece of mind knowing that if something goes wrong you will lose a very bare minimum of information if you have to format or restore a disk image. For the times that you format intentionally, it still makes things easier just having a second partition to copy things over to. Having multiple partitions doesn't really do much for your security, but it does make organization a lot easier, and cuts out a lot of "clutter".

[Peter2150]

I personally have always used one partition and haven't any issues either with organization or security. Having more than one drive does help if you need to move things around.

The first external drive I partitioned and it hasn't gained me anything. Now I don't partition them. I just use folders.

It's a very individual thing.

Pete

[lodore]

ive only ever used single partitions since my current pc only had recovery discs and not the original windows cd so I couldn't repartition it.
it is alot easiser to image with one partition.
if you have two partisions do you move the whole documents and settings folder to the data partistion?
my next pc i will make sure it has a windows cd or ask them to create a smaller c partition for me so i can create the second partition in windows later on.
lodore

[InfinityAz]

If you can have more than one HD it opens a lot of possibilities (e.g., keep data on a separate drive, run multiple virutal memory partitions, etc.).

With 1 HD, I'd use at least two partitions:


1 for system (I also install office on this since it ties into the system) and nothing else (makes it easy to image and restore very quickly).
1 for programs and data (or create a third partition for data).

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "i
if you have two partisions do you move the whole documents and settings folder to the data partistion?

" }-

Yes - I do - My documents simply gets relocated to F: ( My data partition)
I also place the outlook *.pst file and archive on F:

I'm constantly making and restoring old system images but can't remember the last time I restored a data partition

[rdsu]

I use at least 2 partitions.

1. Windows and Programs
Because the most accessed files of both should be on the outer tracks (fastest tracks) of the disk, and this will speed your system a lot...

2. Data, Music, Videos, Software Images, etc.
I prefer to have a second partition because I can have to format or replace an system image, and then I will not loose what is more important to me...

[Q Section]

A good question for you.......We are using C drive for the OS, D drive for all other programmes and E drive for all stored data. When we add and install an additional programme some do not offer the option to specify where it shall be installed. In these cases it automatically gets installed in C:\Program Files. When we install other programmes that have an option we specify D:\Program Files\etc. If it should come to it we can reinstall the OS back to C but all the programmes that were installed to C:\Program Files will be lost if we have re-formatted the C drive. Does anyone have a solution for this situation? We probably have in excess of 500 programmes total mostly utilities and OS editing types.

(For those not familiar with our system we are only speaking about our single test computer in our lab. This is a non-mission critical computer which has no critical data in it and is not connected to our main computer system. The main computer system is of course maintained by highly trained staff who know what they are doing and since they are busy with their work we do not presume to bother them with this little test computer here in Q Section.)

[rdsu]

Q Section,

You whould not make the things that way :)

A lot of programs install files in a lot of system directories to work properlly, so if you install a fresh windows and not install those programs again you can have a lot of problems...

[TheQuest]

Hi, Q Section

-{ Quote: "If it should come to it we can reinstall the OS back to C but all the programmes that were installed to C:\Program Files will be lost if we have re-formatted the C drive." }-
You would also lost all the registry entries to any program you have install in D:\.

The only solution would be to do a repair install, which would keep all associations to your install drivers and programs.

You would need to reinstall all of your Windows Updates because they are overwritten by the repair install.

Take Care,
TheQuest 8)

[Genady Prishnikov]

Q Section: Do you not have the original installation files? I am with those who think it far more efficient (only partly because of the problem you brought up) to place your programs in the same partition as the OS. It makes for a quick and easy image, too!

[Rmus]

-{ Quote: " When we install other programmes that have an option we specify D:\Program Files\etc. If it should come to it we can reinstall the OS back to C but all the programmes that were installed to C:\Program Files will be lost if we have re-formatted the C drive." }-Actually, you have a problem with any of your D:\Program Files\applications that write to the Registry. If you reformatted C:\ you would have to also re-install those programs.

Re-installing programs is not that time consuming (but 500?? ?? - OK) - it is the re-configuring that really takes the time.

This can be alleviated if you find where the configurations/settings are stored, and back them up.

Example: My MSWord stores settings in

[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Word\7.0\Options]

so I have that Registry Key backed up.

Since I have 26 MSWord Templates, I keep my Templates folder backed up.

Example: Opera has many *.ini files that store settings for customizing menus, toolbars, as well as the principal opera.ini file, .css and .js files, etc.

Having these backed up saves huge amounts of time, if a worst-case scenario occurs.

If you are an "Imaging" person, you can set up a plan accordingly. You just have to keep the Image up to date, especially when you make changes to the Registry.

EDIT: I see TheQuest posted while I was typing and I duplicated part of his answer.

To add: since imaging has been mentioned: I used to keep an image, but stopped doing it some years ago. Nothing ever happened, and when I bought a new HD last year, instead of cloning the old one, I opted to reinstall everything fresh. Over the past two years, I had uninstalled a lot of programs, so having a fresh install started me out with a pristine Registry. Again, with configuration settings backed up, the whole procedure took just a few hours, and it was a pleasant time re-visiting the installation of older programs and changing their location, in some cases.

regards,

-rich

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
Sorry guys, I just noticed I answered in the wrong thread (above). Hence, my post is totally out of context, sorry.
Mrk

[AaLF]

I was under the impression that one had to partition into 2 , 4 or 8?

And they should all be equal e.g. 30gb x 4 = 120gb.

Can I safely re-partition my 120gb into 2 (1x small & 1 x big) ??

[Long View]

You can pretty much partition as you like. No more than 4 primary partitions on a drive I believe. You could have say 15 gig for windows Xp and programs and then 50 gig for data and 55 gig for whatever.

If you only have windows then I believe you need to do all this when you install.
If you buy a program like Acronis Disk Director http://www.acronis.com/homecomputing/products/diskdirector/ then you can make changes whenever you want.

[Escalader]

Hi All, Merry Christmas even if you don't celebrate it!

Just to clarify, I do have an external drive happens to be a Maxtor.

My original thinking was that the partitions on the external would "mirror" those on my primary drive. Now with your collective wisdom I think I can simplify things to OS and ALL Programs(avoiding issue of those forced to be on C.

I like the idea of folders for data, music and pictures in one partition EXCEPT for the frequency of change issue when doing backup images to external.

Since my user data (finance etc) changes daily I think I'll partition it separately from music and pictures (which don't change much) which will share a partition.

What is best tool to move/copy files to the new primary partitions? I was just going to use windows explorer!

So here is my revised plan 2:

Primary HD______________External HD (archival backup Images via paragon)
C: OS + all programs______P: Mirror of OS + all programs
D: user financial data_____F: Mirror of user financial data
E: music,pictures,scans___S: Mirror of music,pictures,scans

What is good/wrong with Plan 2, fire at will!

[AaLF]

That data partition always confuses me.

If you don't mind, here's my ruff config...

P4 512RAM 120gb HDD

I'm not a gamer, however I do a bit of photshop editing stuff and need more RAM.
_____________

6gb in C full of windows / programs.

Possible may expand so let's alocate 10gb for Win / programs.

So what do you mean by 'data'?

I'd rather have one small efficent patition for the 'engine'. And the rest for storage.

Does ROM come into play? Do I need to allocate extra gb space for win / programs? Or is 15-20gb all that's required for the 'engine "C"?

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "I agree with wilbertnl. The folders would give you exactly the same thing. The other advantage of simply two partitions also lies in the fact that you could easily image your DATA partition in minutes and have all of your scans, music, etc. without the need for multiple images.

Speaking of drives...I saw a new OneTB (yes, terabyte) drive in the circulars today for $400. That's right .40 a GB. Who would have ever thought? Look at Flash Drives - the latest Corsair Voyager USB Flash Drive is out with 16GB! It's the same size as the 2GB. Of course, the cost per gig is still high, but they will soon fall dramatically. It's a whole new world.

Good luck!" }-

Directories do not give the same thing as partions.

I hqave a multiboot system obn 3 SCSI drives.
I keep data files away from OS partitions, with a few exceptions.

THis allows me to easily do image backups, change an OS drive for testing, say, a different AV softwqare, then restoring the OS drive.

This is not feasible if directories containg actively changing files are included on the OS drive.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Directories do not give the same thing as partions.

I hqave a multiboot system obn 3 SCSI drives.
I keep data files away from OS partitions, with a few exceptions.

THis allows me to easily do image backups, change an OS drive for testing, say, a different AV softwqare, then restoring the OS drive.

This is not feasible if directories containg actively changing files are included on the OS drive." }-

Howard

Sure it is, with just a minor change in approach. I just use one partition, and use folders to keep stuff separate. I take a complete image if weekly and just before I do anything major.

My secret weapon though is First Defense. I just keep a small OS bootable second snapshot on disk, and I keep a full archive on external drive. This I update frequently as it very fast(about a minute and a half) That way no matter what I do to my system/data, I can restore an image even if quite old, and then use FDISR and the archive to bring things current. Works like a champ and I keep my disk structure simple

Also I keep all data in separate folders but all under one root backup folder, so I can also easily backup all data by just saving one folder.

Very simple, no complex partitioning idea's, and it has been tested under fire.

Pete

PS Multi boot would change that, but I don't use it.

[Howard Kaikow]

Multiboot does not actually complicate the problem.

Single drive has issues.

Say, I keep ALL my user files under C:\HowardsStuff.

If I create an image of the drive, then replace the current AV with a temporary AV, one canot restore the drive back to it's original AV without losing changes made to C:\HowardsStuff during the time the temporary aV was installed.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "That data partition always confuses me.

.....
So what do you mean by 'data'?

I'd rather have one small efficient partition for the 'engine'. And the rest for storage......" }-

Yes the term data can confuse. When I use the term I mean files that don't execute, in other words they aren't programs that ACT in/on your PC.

examples would be word files, excel, pictures eg files you create using a program

[Notok]

Q Section: Your best bet would probably be to use something like Altiris Software Virtualization Solution and export the layers to your second drive/partition.

-{ Quote: "Multiboot does not actually complicate the problem.

Single drive has issues." }-I agree. It also makes navigation a little easier (less "clutter") to have a whole separate "drive" containing only your stuff. The C: can get a bit cluttered when you get a few apps that don't install to \Program Files\ and especially when you have it set to show hidden & system files.

[wilbertnl]

-{ Quote: "What is best tool to move/copy files to the new primary partitions? I was just going to use windows explorer!" }-
I do suggest SyncBackSE (http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/syncback-hub.html), either the free or paid versions are great.
You would use it to move data, but also to backup data.
You are able to setup schedules and keep your internal and extrernal data partitions in sync.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Multiboot does not actually complicate the problem.

Single drive has issues.

Say, I keep ALL my user files under C:\HowardsStuff.

If I create an image of the drive, then replace the current AV with a temporary AV, one canot restore the drive back to it's original AV without losing changes made to C:\HowardsStuff during the time the temporary aV was installed." }-

Not a problem for me Howard. What we are talking here is primarily data. I use all of MS Office,Quickbooks, and Paperport to name a few. Among other things I sync all the "data" and settings stuff to a mobile drive. That way I can easily switch machines I work one.

So if I want to switch back a a week in time, I just sync my data to mobile, revert system back, and resync. No loss.

I don't do this because of the issue you raise, but for backup purposes. But it does also solve the problem you mention.

Pete

[Notok]

-{ Quote: "I do suggest SyncBackSE, either the free or paid versions are great.
You would use it to move data, but also to backup data.
You are able to setup schedules and keep your internal and extrernal data partitions in sync." }-For manual operations, dual pane explorer replacements, like xplorer² (http://www.zabkat.com/) (free and paid versions available, I liked it enough to pay for it), are invaluable. It has some options for syncing folders and a whole lot more.

[herbalist]

So this is where everybody is spending the holiday.
Escalader,
There's no advantage to separate partitions for music, images, and user data. Separate folders are more flexible to use. I keep all system files on internal drives and use the external drive for data and backups. The internal primary drive is for windows and most program files. My second internal drive has Linux. The external has separate partitions for data and backups. There are times you might want to make an exception to putting programs in the usual place. Two programs I put on the data partition of the external drive instead of the "C" drive are Webshots and BigJig, a nice jigsaw puzzle program. This made it easier to treat all the stored puzzles and pictures as data files, and stopped my hearing the "where did my puzzles go?" every time I changed something. It's a bit slower, but not enough to be any problem.
For system backups, I use the Acronis CD. Used to have it installed but found the CD was all I need. On my old system, I didn't need more running processes, especially when I do backups manually. It works well with my external drive, which contains several different OS backups, several versions of my regular system plus several test configurations I load as needed.
The more you can separate user files from system files, the more compact your backup files will be and the faster the restore process. It also makes system maintenance much faster. I don't back up the user data partition nearly as often. When I do, it gets copied to CDRWs.
If you don't have an external drive, you can always put the backup images on the data partition, but it's better to use a separate drive for your backups, regardless of how you partition it.
Rick

[Ice_Czar]

-{ Quote: "primary disk partitions

What do you or anybody else think of this scheme? Is it too complex or flawed in some way?
" }-

since your allowed either 3 primary partitions and one extended with logical drives per HDD natively under windows

or

4 primaries

Ive run into this issue
some aps that employ preboot code (Ghost for instance installed to the OS) have problems if there are full up partitions, meaning you get to play with the floppy\CD\USB anyway to boot in for imaging.

Of course I also run an old version of O&O BlueCon in preboot as well so Im not sure if thats an additional contributing factor.


partitioning strategies & performance considerations
http://partition.radified.com/
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=159101

partitioning is so unique to your actual disk use that its really hard to say what is best
you can use it to enhance performance, security and forstall fragmentation.
But a lot depends on how you personally employ your lineup of applications.
And exactly how much time you want to invest in optimizing.

[Howard Kaikow]

If one has more thqan one partition, even with a single hard drinem one shouyls relocate tgings such as My Documents, Favorites, Temp, Recent, FirfoxProfiles, ThunderbirdProfiles, Cookies, EudoraMailboxes, ThunderbirdMailboxes, etc., off of the OS drive,

And if one has a multiboot system, share those critters amongst the OS.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "I do suggest SyncBackSE (http://www.2brightsparks.com/syncback/syncback-hub.html), either the free or paid versions are great.
You would use it to move data, but also to backup data.
You are able to setup schedules and keep your internal and external data partitions in sync." }-

Great, I'll look into those!

I was hoping to not complicate things anymore than necessary by simply separating data from OS+programs and reply on one back up strategy using Paragon drive backup plus scheduled incremental backups.

I'm afraid of losing my way in backing up the backups! :-\

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "

I'm afraid of losing my way in backing up the backups! :-\" }-

This is the main reason that I ONLY ever do full backups. I've always been concerned that diff or inc would cause more trouble than they are worth. When I did experiment I didn't find that either diff or inc saved much time and with external hard drive space becoming cheaper every day ( just placed an order for another 500 gig Freecom eSATA) I concluded that full images were best for me.

[wilbertnl]

-{ Quote: "I'm afraid of losing my way in backing up the backups! :-\" }-
Concerning backups, there is one thing more important than anything else in any solution you decide to use
I can not repeat it enough:

-{ Quote: "!Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup! !Test restoring your backup!" }-

[Ice_Czar]

wilbertnl is not overstating the issue in the slightest ;)
this might be a good time to point out the importance of verifying backups either as an integral part of the program employed or manually with a checksum (fsum (http://www.slavasoft.com/fsum/) is good freeware)

to drive home the point let me tell you a sad tale about how to gain a little more space on my RAID 5 array for just one more ISO, I corrupted pretty much the whole bloody thing. The RAID hardware and drives were fine, but my system memory was shot, every time I relocated a directory or file I corrupted it because I was in too much of a hurry to verify each move as I went.

Luckily I had verified hard backups (CD\DVDs) of about 80% of it.

I maintain important information on multiple machines as well as hard media
this has saved my butt numerous times, in the enterprise arena thats augmented with offsite backups
which for really important datasets you might consider as well
(ie send 2 DVD copies of the family photos to your sister out of state and have her stick em in the back of the fridge)

hard media can also go bad for one reason or another so find the time to verify it regularly
generally they like the dark and cool to cold conditions

[Long View]

I appreciate that "Test restoring" and verification are normally seen as being the way to go but personally I don't think there is any substitute for the real thing - so I never bother with verification or testing a restore I just go ahead and do it.
On my main machine I make a full system image at least once a day and have reason to restore at least several times a week (often several times a day when testing). It has been a number of years since a restore failed but if one did I would simply go to one made earlier and if that failed..... As to data I prefer to restore to another drive. Not verifying when images are made does save time and restoring for real gives me more confidence that the image is good than verification ever could.

I have often wondered about those who have written that they have made and verified an image and "hopefully they will never have to restore it" :ouch:

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "

I have often wondered about those who have written that they have made and verified an image and "hopefully they will never have to restore it" :ouch:" }-


It is simple. They haven't verified anything. I've totally stopped wasting time running verifiys. Every time I image, which is frequently, I do a quick browse of the image, and then I restore it. Only then do I know I have an image that will restore.

I have had images, under circumstances, that verified, and you could browse, but wouldn't restore. If you image to both an internal and external drive you need to test restore them both.

Wilbert said it all Test restore. If you don't you are wasting your time.

Pete

[Escalader]

Concerning backups, there is one thing more important than anything else in any solution you decide to use I can not repeat it enough:

I agree. Have I done it already? Test restore? THis was a live "test" ie real!

Late November I fouled up Windows xp by deleting a key systems file in error!

I could no longer boot.

I used the cd restore disk for Paragon and restored the c drive for a backup archive. All works okay. Had to redo a bunch of xp updates and my user data was out of date but hat was all.

This is why I want to separate data from OS+programs. If I had my data partition all would have been up to date after the OS restore.

If you do an image restore say right now and it works I can see it is okay BUT what if the restore fails to produce a working OS? Haven't I wiped out a perfectly good c drive? I must be having a mental block on all this?

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "Great, I'll look into those!

I was hoping to not complicate things anymore than necessary by simply separating data from OS+programs and reply on one back up strategy using Paragon drive backup plus scheduled incremental backups.

I'm afraid of losing my way in backing up the backups! :-\" }-

If you do IMAGE backups, followed by incremental/differential IMAGE backups, it does NOT matter how your files are organized.

[wilbertnl]

-{ Quote: "BUT what if the restore fails to produce a working OS? Haven't I wiped out a perfectly good c drive?" }-
That is correct, and you gave yourself this homework assignment: Answer the question 'Why did it fail?'.
As long as you don't figure this out, your grade is a fat F.
Or ask the next question: Which solution does not fail?.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "That is correct, and you gave yourself this homework assignment: Answer the question 'Why did it fail?'.
As long as you don't figure this out, your grade is a fat F.
Or ask the next question: Which solution does not fail?." }-

Very important question. I know I now don't verify, but just restore, so the question is what happens if the restore fails. No problem. The last restore worked is what I use to restore. But ah, since I don't partition, now everything, including data might be out of data, but ah, that is why I always keep FDISR archives refreshed. I can restore the very first Image I took on either system, and bring it current with FDISR.

If backup is important, then plan,plan, and then test, test.

[lodore]

most people dont have time to test the backups.
they barely have time to do the backup's
i only have room for one image on my external harddrive which means during the image if anything goes wrong im stuffed.
i really need a big external harddrive so i haveat least two images just incase.
the main thing i fear is my harddrive going and hoping my image will restore.
lodore

[wilbertnl]

-{ Quote: "most people dont have time to test the backups.
they barely have time to do the backup's" }-
Yeah, I don't have time for teeth cleaning either... ;)

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "

This is why I want to separate data from OS+programs. If I had my data partition all would have been up to date after the OS restore.

If you do an image restore say right now and it works I can see it is okay BUT what if the restore fails to produce a working OS? Haven't I wiped out a perfectly good c drive? I must be having a mental block on all this?" }-

Agree completely about your first point - having OS+ Programs separate from "data" works very well for me.


I keep reading about people taking hours to make images and even longer to restore - is this perhaps because they image "everything" including holiday photos that have been backed up a million times before ?

what if a restore fails ........ yes you may have wiped out a perfectly good system but so what ? I have several machines using Acronis 10, 9, 9.1 and even 8 and not one of them takes more than 10 minutes to restore the OS and Program partition. Presumably you restored because something was wrong with C ?

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "most people dont have time to test the backups.
they barely have time to do the backup's
i only have room for one image on my external harddrive which means during the image if anything goes wrong im stuffed.
i really need a big external harddrive so i haveat least two images just incase.
the main thing i fear is my harddrive going and hoping my image will restore.
lodore" }-

If you drive failing isn't important don't worry about it, but if it is you are just kidding yourself, if you think you have any protection.

[Genady Prishnikov]

-{ Quote: "If you drive failing isn't important don't worry about it, but if it is you are just kidding yourself, if you think you have any protection." }-

Peter is right, lodore. If you have a solid image that is tested and ready to go, a hard drive failure is no big deal. With drives as large as 250GB under $100, you would be good to go with a new drive. Pop it in, restore your image and you're back in business. But what I think Peter was saying is very true, you would really only worry about a HD failure if you didn't have confidence in your imaging.

[lodore]

well my image verifys fine if i use normal compression which i now always use.
if you restore the image just as a test doesnt it over right your current od on you harddrive?
because if it does and it goes wrong your stuffed.
lodore

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "
if you restore the image just as a test doesnt it over right your current od on you harddrive?
because if it does and it goes wrong your stuffed.
lodore" }-

Its does indeed write over - Before it does anything it deletes everything on the partition - and then it restores.

It has been years since I had a bad restore so things may be different today.
when I last had a bad restore I had to use Disk Director to create a new partition in the empty space left by Acronis. I then restored another image without any difficulty.

So are you stuffed if it goes wrong ? well perhaps not if you have other images saved to different devices. Very often when people say my image verified ok but would not restore they are using a crap USB cable or device - with the same image restoring fine if first copied to another internal drive or partition.

It sounds as though you have never actually restored ? if this is the case how do you really know if restore will work in an emergency ? I would make several
system images to different devices ( USB, other partition, network) and then
hold my breath and restore. I must have restored more than a thousand images since by last bad restore ( USB cable problem) but I always have numerous images archived just in case.

[eniqmah]

-{ Quote: "Hi All, Merry Christmas even if you don't celebrate it!

Just to clarify, I do have an external drive happens to be a Maxtor.

My original thinking was that the partitions on the external would "mirror" those on my primary drive. Now with your collective wisdom I think I can simplify things to OS and ALL Programs(avoiding issue of those forced to be on C.

I like the idea of folders for data, music and pictures in one partition EXCEPT for the frequency of change issue when doing backup images to external.

Since my user data (finance etc) changes daily I think I'll partition it separately from music and pictures (which don't change much) which will share a partition.

What is best tool to move/copy files to the new primary partitions? I was just going to use windows explorer!

So here is my revised plan 2:

Primary HD______________External HD (archival backup Images via paragon)
C: OS + all programs______P: Mirror of OS + all programs
D: user financial data_____F: Mirror of user financial data
E: music,pictures,scans___S: Mirror of music,pictures,scans

What is good/wrong with Plan 2, fire at will!" }-


Syncback
This thing mirrors folders/drives/partitions...etcc.

and this is how mine looks:

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "well my image verifys fine if i use normal compression which i now always use.
if you restore the image just as a test doesnt it over right your current od on you harddrive?
because if it does and it goes wrong your stuffed.
lodore" }-

lodore

Yes it does over write, and the first time, is scary. I know, but I prepared for that, had my recovery disks, and other means to restore just in case.

But I've also found in testing imaging in various scenarios, that there are occasions when I've verified an image and it was fine. Then was able to restore a couple of files from the image, BUT, when I tried restoring the image it failed.

Basically in my experience if you verify an image, what you have done is confirmed it will verify, but not necessarily it will restore.

Pete

[Escalader]

what if a restore fails ........ yes you may have wiped out a perfectly good system but so what ? I have several machines using Acronis 10, 9, 9.1 and even 8 and not one of them takes more than 10 minutes to restore the OS and Program partition. Presumably you restored because something was wrong with C ?

Well, I'm sure I will get another "F" grade but so what I'm here to learn.

My question was poorly put. I was going to restore as a TEST not because something was wrong with C drive.

I get the point about backing up unchanging photos and games and stuff, why do that? I was going to dump data into 2 sets. 1 for frequently changing data and then do weekly incremental s on that partition but then just do monthly images of photos and games and music.

But you all have convinced me to just use 1 data partition with folders for photos etc... no advantage to separate partitions. The folder idea lends itself to a file by file backup system like retrospect. I use a partition backup system.

I terms of wilbertnl test well, all I can say is if every restore craps out and I can't do squat then I will take my cd software packages and my off site financial and photos images buy a new desktop and start clean.

I already know I have one image that worked so I would start with the most recent one and keep restoring til at the worst I'm back to that one.

Hey wilbertnl, here's a test for you, the answer is 42, what was the question?

Happy 2007 to all who help others and to those who don't!

[eniqmah]

Becareful relying on past images. I know I know you've used it over and over. What ever causes it, these things degrade in integrity over time. I've had that happen to me on more than one occasion. Further, I would argue that spending the time to back up your system and data is such a pain that the most surefire of ways has been, for me, to just clone drives, stuff the clone in to make sure it works, and then take it out. Partition or no partition, your things are safe. The only thing about doing that is that you might, like me, be too lazy to open the case and swap the drive. This then would lead to mobile HDD racks. which is what I 've devolutionized to.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

This time I won't get confused and post in the wrong thread.

As to partitioning, given sufficient space, I like the following setups:

First hard disk (usually):

Windows OS partition that will include all programs save virtualization software.
Games partition.
P2P partition.
Data partition, mostly likely FAT to allow easy Linux access.
Linux partitions, usually 3 per OS (usually one or two distros per comp).

Second (and sometimes third) hard disk:

Linux partitions - if not on first.
Partition with pagefile and virtualization software.
Partition for rarely accessed and changed files like .isos or music.
Dedicated backup storage partition.
One or two FAT partitions more for sharing with Linux and/or other evil purposes.

I like to keep partitions under 50% occupied space.

I have this setup on 3 comps that permit enough space. Other machines are Linux only or Windows with just 2 partitions (plus Linux).

Mrk

P.S. The most heavily abused machine has:
10 Windows partitions
6 Linux partitions
11 virtual machines with a total of 37 partitions

[Nick Rhodes]

Has anyone tried restoring an image of an OS to hardware that has changed (especially important on hardware which lasts 3/4 years), what if your cpu and or motherboard expires, will your OS function correctly afterwards ?

I've have had win2k server fail to run (stop error) when restoring the OS image to new hardware... different cpu generations and SCSI devices (on scsi only hardware).

Just something to ponder over.

[Ice_Czar]

if there is a serious change in the drivers required the image will be useless for restoration purposes (but may have data\configuration recovery value on a non booting drive) some changes are far more important than others, a change of chipset spells doom, but just a new SCSI card is no big deal, just yank the card, restore to a similar setup as what you had or a temp IDE HDD install the SCSI card, update the driver and clone back from the IDE to the SCSI. That should apply to most PCI\USB\Firewire hardware, the vast majority being plug and play, disconnect before the restore then reconnect and follow the new hardware wizard.

I have upgraded a CPU without a reinstall on the same chipset before, but can't specifically say that would apply to all chipsets.

if this is really a concern you can employ sysprep to strip all the drivers
http://support.microsoft.com/kb/302577
if its better to get half a restore and reload all drivers than have nothing
you cannot however migrate from one HAL (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hardware_abstraction_layer) to another with it. (ie: P4 > Itanium)
which I suspect was the issue in your CPU upgrade failure?

to determine your current HAL
Start > Run > (type) devmgmt.msc > View > Devices by type > Dclick Computer
(example ACPI Multiprocessor PC)

How to Troubleshoot Windows 2000 Hardware Abstraction Layer Issues (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/237556) (lists possible HALs)
HAL options after Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 Setup (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/309283)

excerpt of notes
-{ Quote: "3. Device Manager does not permit the change from a Non-ACPI HAL to an ACPI HAL. You must use a new install of Windows XP or Windows Server 2003 for this kind of change. Change from an ACPI HAL to a Non-ACPI HAL only for troubleshooting purposes.

4. On Windows XP and later versions, the ACPI Uniprocessor HAL and the MPS Uniprocessor HAL recognize the existence of more than one processor and report the MP ID. Plug and Play detects that the computer devnode's hardware ID list has changed and moves the devnode back through the "found new hardware" detection process. Therefore, when you add a second processor, the MP files (HAL and kernels) are automatically installed, and you do not have to manually update the driver in Device Manager.

5. Microsoft does not support running a HAL other than the HAL that Windows Setup would typically install on the computer. For example, running a PIC HAL on an APIC computer is not supported. Although this configuration may appear to work, Microsoft does not test this configuration and you may have performance and interrupt issues. Microsoft also does not support swapping out the files that are used by the HAL to manually change HAL types." }-

[Nick Rhodes]

Ice_Czar yes it was from a single core Xeon (from about 3 years ago) to a recent dual core Xeon.
Also we are running Win2k3 now which does handle HAL changes better than Win2k, but you know its doom, when it BSOD into safe mode :|

[Ice_Czar]

-{ Quote: "when it BSOD into safe mode :|" }-

indeed :P

best to start over
even if an ugly hack might be possible from a parallel install

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "



here's a test for you, the answer is 42, what was the question?

Happy 2007 to all who help others and to those who don't!" }-

what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything ?
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 1979

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Becareful relying on past images. I know I know you've used it over and over. What ever causes it, these things degrade in integrity over time. I've had that happen to me on more than one occasion. Further, I would argue that spending the time to back up your system and data is such a pain that the most surefire of ways has been, for me, to just clone drives, stuff the clone in to make sure it works, and then take it out. Partition or no partition, your things are safe. The only thing about doing that is that you might, like me, be too lazy to open the case and swap the drive. This then would lead to mobile HDD racks. which is what I 've devolutionized to." }-

Depends on where you store them. I've not had problems with past images kept on hard drives. I don't put any on DVD's. ALso periodically I restore the older images just to be sure.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "what is the meaning of life, the universe, and everything ?
The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy 1979" }-

Rats! You answered for wilbertnl! Now we will never know if he knew!

Take care !

PS 1 I'm off to do a full backup to dvd rw's that will go off line to my safety deposit box! Will replace them 1/quarter.

PS 2 May also get second external hard drive to do the same so I have 2 different media with archives.

Buddy just told me he is got a 500GB external! Why would I ever need that much?

What brands of drive are the most reliable and proven to be so? Seagate?

[Bob D]

-{ Quote: "What brands of drive are the most reliable and proven to be so?" }-
Hard Drive reliability study:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=144072&highlight=hard+drive

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "Rats! You answered for wilbertnl! Now we will never know if he knew!

Take care !

PS 1 I'm off to do a full backup to dvd rw's that will go off line to my safety deposit box! Will replace them 1/quarter.

PS 2 May also get second external hard drive to do the same so I have 2 different media with archives.

Buddy just told me he is got a 500GB external! Why would I ever need that much?

What brands of drive are the most reliable and proven to be so? Seagate?" }-

I would never backup to CD/DVD.
Aside from the reliabilty issue, I have about 43GB of used files on hard drives.
Backing up to optical media just is not practical.

You need to have at least two extrernal hard drives, alternating amongst them, and NEVER leaving ALL thedrives connected at the same time.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "I would never backup to CD/DVD.
Aside from the reliability issue, I have about 43GB of used files on hard drives.
Backing up to optical media just is not practical.

You need to have at least two external hard drives, alternating amongst them, and NEVER leaving ALL the drives connected at the same time." }-

I will definitely have 2 external drives as you suggest and alternate between then that is a very good idea.

However, on CD/DVD's had I not had the bootable recovery cd work I would have been dead in the water! Thank... G...d for cd's reliable or not!

I only need about 19GB for OS, less once I pull out the data to a new partition so about 3-4 cd's will do it for me. These can go off site in case the robber barons steal my whole PC! Yes, it has happened in my neighborhood!

Comments welcome! Anybody put external drives in their safety box?

[wilbertnl]

-{ Quote: "Anybody put external drives in their safety box?" }-
And you store that safety box in another town?

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,

Two external drives? Why not three? But I agree. For backing your personal stuff, there's no limit to precaution. I go with two hard disks on one pc, backup to a second hard disk on a second pc, multiple DVDs, and external hard disk. It's really difficult to reproduce pictures from the high-school excursion to Albania in 1983. Those are precious and must be saved. Programs, stuff you download off the Internet? Nah. Personal, self-created stuff? Precious.

As to external hard disks - place data on them in encrypted volumes or passworded archives or both. TrueCrypt will work.

Mrk

[lucas1985]

External HDD = mobile hard disks ;)
Also outside storage is very important.
For me: RAID 1(local system) + NAS(centralized storage) + DVDs(safe box) + external HDDs(safe box and outside storage)
If you are more paranoid go for tape backup ;D

[Long View]

-{ Quote: "I would never backup to CD/DVD.
Aside from the reliabilty issue, I have about 43GB of used files on hard drives.
Backing up to optical media just is not practical.

." }-

DVD Reliability can be an issue if poor quality disks are used or not burned properly but I have just looked at a system image made with Acronis 6 in November 2003 and it is in fine shape. I certainly wouldn't use DVD as my only back up and I must admit I'm not likely to want to restore such an old image but making a copy to DVD does allow for very cheap off site protection.

Burglaries and Fires do happen and when they do on site storage is often of no value at all.

[lucas1985]

DVDisaster (http://www.dvdisaster.com/) ;)
I replace my DVD backups once every two years.

[Ice_Czar]

Direct Attached Storage suffers from a great number of things that can take them and your box at the same time.
Near-line storage (http://www.itweek.co.uk/computing/features/2072268/advantages-near-line-storage) in the enterprise parlance really is still relevant.

I employ both internal IDE RAID5 as well as external SCSI RAID5 arrays for storage, but natural disaster, power event, network intrusion and automated malware could all kill them.

Sure its nice to be able to put a bullet through any one HDD in the array and not loose data, that hasnt kept me from loosing data though, once as mentioned above with system memory corruption and a failure to verify transfers

But the first time was the most common reason for data loss. Pilot Error, because I read a manual (the card would autorecognize the drives to channels, only that BIOS version had a glitch). 2 drive array you have 2 possible permutations of drives to channels AB or BA. Three drives six permutations, ABC ACB BCA BAC CAB CBA but with 6 drives you have 720 permutations. :dry:

Point is that if you do look at data reliability schemes on an enterprise level they have been through this all before. And the old "rule" was no substitute for hard backups (CD\DVD\Tape). Thats been changing with SAN strategies but generally only if they span multiple locations with all sorts of redundancy and infrastructure.

While hard media can fail, precautions in its selection, verification, storage, periodic reverification and reimaging as necessary mitigate the potential for data loss. A burglar rarely steals the DVDs under the Garlic in the back of your fridge, a near or direct lighting strike that melts your overhyped surge protector cares less. There are 101 ways to loose data, its best to employ every way you can to forestall that.

The main problem I have with external HDDs is they where never designed to by used that way. 3.5" platters flex alot more than 2.5" laptop or 1" memory disks,and regardless of how stiff the arm and how wonderful the firmware and sensors to avoid headslap (freefall, power loss ect more common and generally beter in laptop drives). A sudden impact will likely lead to headslap. The head is just 2 microns of the surface floating on an air boundary layer. Once it hits you get both the divot as well as the ejected matter. Leading to the head running over it, imagine running over a bowling ball in a go cart at mach 813. (10k rpm). If your aware of that you take precautions when you use them, but they arent sold like that. And generally are used like a laptop drive, which they arent.

When it was CDs we backed up to it was bad, but with cheap 4.3GB DVD's
its really worth it IMO.

[Genady Prishnikov]

-{ Quote: "The main problem I have with external HDDs is they where never designed to by used that way. 3.5" platters flex alot more than 2.5" laptop or 1" memory disks,and regardless of how stiff the arm and how wonderful the firmware and sensors to avoid headslap (freefall, power loss ect more common and generally beter in laptop drives). A sudden impact will likely lead to headslap. The head is just 2 microns of the surface floating on an air boundary layer. Once it hits you get both the divot as well as the ejected matter. Leading to the head running over it, imagine running over a bowling ball in a go cart at mach 813. (10k rpm). If your aware of that you take precautions when you use them, but they arent sold like that. And generally are used like a laptop drive, which they arent." }-

Western Digital and Seagate have engineers/designers that have designed their new external hard drives addressing everything you just mentioned. These aren't just thrown together internal hard drives inside a generic enclosure. They have taken great care to use rubber inside the enclosure and are mounted down with precision techniques. They really do know what they're doing.

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "Its does indeed write over - Before it does anything it deletes everything on the partition - and then it restores.

It has been years since I had a bad restore so things may be different today.
when I last had a bad restore I had to use Disk Director to create a new partition in the empty space left by Acronis. I then restored another image without any difficulty.

So are you stuffed if it goes wrong ? well perhaps not if you have other images saved to different devices. Very often when people say my image verified ok but would not restore they are using a crap USB cable or device - with the same image restoring fine if first copied to another internal drive or partition.

It sounds as though you have never actually restored ? if this is the case how do you really know if restore will work in an emergency ? I would make several
system images to different devices ( USB, other partition, network) and then
hold my breath and restore. I must have restored more than a thousand images since by last bad restore ( USB cable problem) but I always have numerous images archived just in case." }-

ive got one internal 160gb harddrive maxtor.
and one external maxtor one touch III USB2.0 which stores one image at a time of the 160gb drive.
so i can only store one image at a time which is a problem because during the backup ive got no backup.
should i consider buying a bigger external drive so i can have multipal images?
i am always worried when i make an image because of no backup during the process.
your right i have never tryed restoring and since it over rights the current partistion on that harddrive and i have only one image if i restored and it went wrong i would be stuffed. its not likely thou.
i saw that i can get a 320gb external drive for about £70.
when i got my maxtor 100gb external i got atm it cost £110 from amazon.
would you say seagate are the best and genraly the longest lasting harddrives?
the main point is ive had my pc two years so far and i normaly replace it after 4 years so im hoping it will last two more years then i would of got my new pc and i wont have to worry about the harddrive for a while.
what about western digital my book?
lodore

[Long View]

For some reason I can't resist buying external drives ( several Freecoms, Toshiba, and Maxtor). They all work just fine. Prices are falling all the time.

You say you have a 160gb drive. How much of that is taken up by operating system and programs ? 10-15 gb ? and how much data ? one of my work machines uses only 5.59 gb for windows XP , Office, scanning software.....
All client files, PDFs , word docs etc take up 7.65 gb.

So id your 160gb drive full ? then what about compression ? using normal compression my 5.59 gb os/programs reduces to 3.87 gb.

As the title of this thread is "partitioning for better management of computer"
I would argue that the simple solution is to have one partition for OS and programs ( 15 gb is more than enough) and another for "data".

with a 320 gb external you should be able to store multiple OS/Program
images and still have plenty of space for numerous data images.

Final question - if you really do have 160 gb of data how much of it is really important and how much old drivers, and basic junk. I would take a risk and simply copy all this old stuff to multiple CDs - just in case. I know that my 3DFX drivers and windows 3.1 junk will never be needed again but I feel happier knowing that it is stored on CD/DVD even if I can't find them.

[lodore]

I'm using 64.9 GB of my hard drive (160gb internal)
most of that is music,installers and pictures.
i image my hard drive one image at a time to my 100gb external drive.
then i have to delete the current image to put a new one on it.
so during the process i got no image backup.
should i purchase a bigger external harddrive so i can store more than one image at a time?
which is more safe than only having one image.
more to add later.
lodore

[Nick Rhodes]

What about tape backup systems, how do people rate those compared to external HDD for cost and performance ?

I have a lot of media files: movies, music and photos, (approaching 100gig) they live on my server (so I can watch them on my laptop and/or TV via Xbox), I currently back them up to DVD occasionally (and I keep the old DVD's).

My data files are backup to my server which in turn gets backed to my external hdd, partly so that I can transport files between work and home easily.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "I'm using 64.9 GB of my hard drive (160gb internal)
most of that is music,installers and pictures.
i image my hard drive one image at a time to my 100gb external drive.
then i have to delete the current image to put a new one on it.
so during the process i got no image backup.
should i purchase a bigger external harddrive so i can store more than one image at a time?
which is more safe than only having one image.
more to add later.
lodore" }-

IMHO you would be safer to:

have multiple backup images
use differentials weekly based on a proven image
doesn't seem like you need more external
partition your pc into 2, (1) OS+programs and (2) data

[Ice_Czar]

-{ Quote: "Western Digital and Seagate have engineers/designers that have designed their new external hard drives addressing everything you just mentioned. These aren't just thrown together internal hard drives inside a generic enclosure. They have taken great care to use rubber inside the enclosure and are mounted down with precision techniques. They really do know what they're doing." }-

while they have made some advances recently, they dont predate the widespread adoption of 3.5" as an external and likely represent a needed advancement to maintain profitability against a rising tide of RMA's

and there is no bending the laws of physics when it comes to platter sizes (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/op/mediaSize-c.html)
its another example of the inverse square law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inverse-square_law)
-{ Quote: " Reducing the hard disk platter's diameter by a factor of two approximately quadruples its rigidity." }-

My criticisms arent against anyone's R&D department, but rather how the drives have been promoted as a truly transportable cure all. They have been quite a marketing success but the user education that goes with them is lacking. Classic Engineers vs Spin Doctors struggle. The "precautions" if too prominent hurts sales you know :P

while the clueless compare them to much more robust microdrives and solid state memory, equating a 3.5" to say an ipod

[lodore]

-{ Quote: "IMHO you would be safer to:

have multiple backup images
use differentials weekly based on a proven image
doesn't seem like you need more external
partition your pc into 2, (1) OS+programs and (2) data
" }-

I dont want to have to repartistion so i will stay with what ive got with that intill I get a new pc.
multiple images will be useful thou and i would need eiether a bigger external or an extra internal drive.
i dont get the differential images.
when i create a full image then create the first differential i get stuck.
do i create the second differential from the full image or the first differential?
lodore

[Q Section]

Just a "Thank you" to all who commented on our question earlier.

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "I dont want to have to repartistion so i will stay with what ive got with that intill I get a new pc.
multiple images will be useful thou and i would need eiether a bigger external or an extra internal drive.
i dont get the differential images.
when i create a full image then create the first differential i get stuck.
do i create the second differential from the full image or the first differential?
lodore" }-

If you have a good partition management tool and unallocated space you should not fear repartitioning in and of itself.

The way differentials are handled depends on the imaging software you use to back up your drives/partitions, so you would need to read up on your product and practice on dummy partitions first.

Backup everything before you start.

[Ice_Czar]

-{ Quote: "If you have a good partition management tool and unallocated space you should not fear repartitioning in and of itself.
" }-

I use Partition Magic all the time without any issues
but I also moderated a data storage forum for 5 years with all sorts Partition Magic sob stories.

do one thing at a time and reboot
(resize reboot, move reboot, ect)
don't merge partitions
never restart because you think its hung
make the rescue disks
maintain current backups always ;)

I use Windows diskmgmt to create delete format pretty much anything other than resize and move
Ive also used diskpart.exe (http://support.microsoft.com/kb/325590) to expand a partition into adjacent unallocated space
(see link for restrictions no pagfefile on the partition for instance)
but its ripe for misadventure to anyone that isnt comfortable with a commandline and anything but crystal clear on their partition topography
worth learning to use, on drives that contain no data you can loose, at least the first few tries. ;)

[Escalader]

Thanks Czar, good advice. The only improvement I could make to your "rules"
follows:

maintain current backups always
make the rescue disks
never restart because you think its hung
don't merge partitions
do one thing at a time and reboot
(resize reboot, move reboot, etc)

Don't use Paragon Partition Manager 8.x Personal Edition.
It has crashed my PC twice simply trying to reallocate space from 1 partition to another on an external 120GB Maxtor drive.

I did use their drive backup rebootable cd to come back from the dead but G..d what a nightmare.

[Ice_Czar]

-{ Quote: "The only improvement I could make to your "rules"
" }-


aHA
so your my evil twin doppelganger :dry:
or is it Im the evil one? ;D

[bpm3k]

I also have Partition Magic. However, this is supposed to be just as good but free: GParted (http://gparted.sourceforge.net/index.php).

[Howard Kaikow]

-{ Quote: "I also have Partition Magic. However, this is supposed to be just as good but free: GParted (http://gparted.sourceforge.net/index.php)." }-

For partitioning software, I would trust oNLY software that has been widely used.

Partition Magic is oft available free, e.g., as part of a Symantec bundle. I believe that http://www.compusa.com/ and/orhttp://www.outpost.com/ has such a deal available this week.

Such a deal seems to available at least once per month at such resellers.

Heck, I've got 3 PM licenses.

[Mrkvonic]

Hello,
I have used both PM and GParted without any issues.
Mrk

[Ice_Czar]

thanks bpm3k Gparted (Gnome Partition Editor) looks like a great opensource alternative
with the added advantage of being OS\filesystem independent for a LiveUSB & LiveCD

while proprietary software might be more mature
you get to see all the bugs (http://bugzilla.gnome.org/buglist.cgi?query_format=advanced&short_desc_type=allwordssubstr&short_desc=&classification=Other&product=gparted&component=gparted&long_desc_type=substring&long_desc=&status_whiteboard_type=allwordssubstr&status_whiteboard=&keywords_type=allwords&keywords=&bug_status=UNCONFIRMED&bug_status=NEW&bug_status=ASSIGNED&bug_status=REOPENED&bug_status=NEEDINFO&emailassigned_to1=1&emailtype1=substring&email1=&emailassigned_to2=1&emailreporter2=1&emailqa_contact2=1&emailcc2=1&emailtype2=substring&email2=&bugidtype=include&bug_id=&chfieldfrom=&chfieldto=Now&chfieldvalue=&cmdtype=doit&order=Reuse+same+sort+as+last+time&field0-0-0=noop&type0-0-0=noop&value0-0-0=) with opensource
something you never see with proprietary software, well unless you read every entry in a support forum.
Which Gparted also has (http://gparted-forum.surf4.info/).

I'll be testing this extensively over the next couple of months ;)

[Escalader]

-{ Quote: "
Don't use Paragon Partition Manager 8.x Personal Edition.
It has crashed my PC twice simply trying to reallocate space from 1 partition to another on an external 120GB Maxtor drive.

I did use their drive backup re-bootable cd to come back from the dead but G..d what a nightmare." }-

I now retract this statement. It did what I said it did, BUT I have now learned many tricks on partition management and have to say it works when you have good support from the vendor which I have been getting. Except for weekends I get 1 day or even same day answers to questions. Their backup archives have saved me several times in 1 month. Did all of my testing on an old Pentium II which had no valuable data or programs to lose.

Just to be clear I AM NOT ADVOCATING PARAGON just correcting a premature comment and wanted to correct the record.

Regards to all:

PS Now I have to avoid archiving the archives! Ideas welcome

[Ice_Czar]

the thing I seem to recall from the depths of my memory was that Paragon had a way to revert Dynamic Disks back to Basic and keep the data?

In W2K (since fixed in XP) the diskmgmt new disk Initialzation wizard made it very easy to inadvertently "upgrade" :dry:
to Dynamic Disks if you didnt pay close attention, many a soul never noticed till it was too late and the disks loaded with data they had no room to transfer elsewhere

[Escalader]

"the thing I seem to recall from the depths of my memory was that Paragon had a way to revert Dynamic Disks back to Basic and keep the data?"

yes, Paragon has FATxx>>NTFS>>FATxx, with many options for sizing.
one of the "learnings" was to engage/click the don't convert without warning boxes. I didn't know that and a couple of FATxx's (which i didn't use) got converted. These are now gone! Suspect they were old IBM utility partitions but since they are gone will never know.

Moral: Back every thing you need/might need before starting to mess with
these partitioning tools.

[Escalader]

the thing I seem to recall from the depths of my memory was that Paragon had a way to revert Dynamic Disks back to Basic and keep the data?

I haven't in paragon on the terms dynamic and basic, so I'm not quite sure on your question they have dynamic / on the fly backups in advanced 24X 7 operations but I'm not using that version.

[Ice_Czar]

Dynamic Disks dont use Master File Tables (MFT) or File Allocation Tables (FAT) but rather a Logical Disk Manager (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ldm) (LDM) and there are all sorts of special rules for Dynamic Disks making recovery a pain in the butt (like an unintelligible dialect of a language you sort of speak) you use Dynamic Disks to do software RAID w\ NTFS or volumes spanning multiple HDDs
actually it offers little to a single user you cant do better another way

point is natively in Windows reverting from Dynamic Disks to Basic Disks means 100% data loss

[Q Section]

nickr -

Tape backup hardware is relatively not too expensive but the cost of the blank tapes is outrageous.

[Nick Rhodes]

Cheers Q

FYI I've set both my machines with 4 partitions for Linux.

200mb boot ext3
6gig / xfs
2gig swap
remaining 1 big partition
(additional drives on my server as single huge partitions)

[Q Section]

Sounds like a good solution!