New best shredder

[Devil's Advocate]

Anyone tried Shred Agent file shredder utility at
http://www.shredagent.com/

{QUOTE-> What "hardware" level means

Shred Agent works on hardware level, thus wiping the files completely, eliminating the possibility of ever recovering them. For file shredder utility the problem is not to wipe file (it's quite simple), the problem is to catch the file that program should wipe. The most insecure (hard to catch) are:

Temporary files created by popular programs: MS Word (TM), Internet Explorer (TM);

Files deleted thought Recycle Bin;

Files deleted by remote user;

Any files that are deleted by program, but not by user;

Hardware level is where Shred Agent can catch all these files and wipe them.
Popular file shredders: what is the difference

Most popular file shredders, including ours QuickWiper works on user level. So they can catch and wipe only files that user does delete.

Unfortunately, the most popular file shredders:

don't handle temporary files;

don't catch files moved to Recycle Bin;

don't catch any modifications done silently by software;

don't wipe files deleted by remote user;
I'm using wipe free space...

Unfortunately, this is not enough. Some programs, for instance, popular web-browser FireFox, could create and delete hundreds temporary files per hour. In this case wiping of free space doesn't help to protect your privacy. <-QUOTE}

It looks great, my concern has always being with the dozens of temp files created and deleted by Office Word, Excel nowhere for the shredder to get them. AKA "Any files that are deleted by program, but not by use"

I wipe frees space of course but that is not a complete solution.

Shred agent seems to solve that problem, but i wonder how shred agent knows what to shred?

[TNT]

::) I don't get it.

True, dozens of programs create and delete temporary files by themselves, so if you delete just the file AND the temporary files that are still present it won't be enough, because the temporary files that were deleted by the application have written sensitive information on other disk areas.

Since these disk areas were not "wiped" (securely overwritten), then they can be easily recoverable... that's a given... and that's what "wiping free disk space" is for. So what is he trying to say by:
{QUOTE-> Some programs, for instance, popular web-browser FireFox, could create and delete hundreds temporary files per hour. In this case wiping of free space doesn't help to protect your privacy. <-QUOTE}
Is he saying that if you don't delete the temporary (ie, the Cache) files, you won't protect your privacy if you overwrite the free disk space? Well, DUH...

I have no idea what the author is trying to say here... it sounds like marketing bull to me.

[Devil's Advocate]

{QUOTE-> ::) I don't get it.

True, dozens of programs create and delete temporary files by themselves, so if you delete just the file AND the temporary files that are still present it won't be enough, because the temporary files that were deleted by the application have written sensitive information on other disk areas.

Since these disk areas were not "wiped" (securely overwritten), then they can be easily recoverable... that's a given... and that's what "wiping free disk space" is for. So what is he trying to say by:

Is he saying that if you don't delete the temporary (ie, the Cache) files, you won't protect your privacy if you overwrite the free disk space? Well, DUH...

I have no idea what the author is trying to say here... it sounds like marketing bull to me. <-QUOTE}

I agree, my guess he is saying (badly) that you can't wipe freespace all the time (or maybe you can but not all of it at the same time, it takes me a while to do it). As such There will be a period between which you wipe the freespace and when you are vulnerable. The whole "hundreds temporary files per hour" thing i guess is referring to the fact that you need to wipe the freespace every hour or something...

Plus sometimes when i wipe freespace despite my best efforts some sectors are locked so who knows if i really got them all.

But the author of this app is posting here, so he can answer himself.

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> As such There will be a period between which you wipe the freespace and when you are vulnerable. <-QUOTE}Interesting topic.

Can you explain here - by "vulnerable" do you mean someone could sit down at your computer and read files on your freespace?

[Devil's Advocate]

{QUOTE-> Interesting topic.

Can you explain here - by "vulnerable" do you mean someone could sit down at your computer and read files on your freespace? <-QUOTE}

Another scenario would be the Fed/terrorists/enemy breaking in and grabbing your computer.

Someone sitting down and running a undelete program could work too of course.

[Rmus]

While Deep Freeze is usually touted for its security (malware removed on reboot) another advantage is that you don't have to do maintenance on a frozen partition, so that if Office is installed on a frozen partition, all temp files would not remain on reboot. Naturally, you save your data files to a thawed partition.

Same with the browser - cache files don't remain on reboot. For those who use IE, that means the Index.dat file stays empty.

From what others say about how sand box progams work, I would think that you could set up something similar.

[Franklin]

With Iolo's Search and Recover you can find all deleted files and then "terminate all" making them irrecoverable.

It doesn't seem to overwrite them and I don't really know how it works.

If you use a program such as eraser that overwrites free space, Search and Recover will flag all the overwrites as deleted files and can terminate those as well.

http://www.iolo.com/customercare/kbarticle.aspx?id=KBA-01455

Quote :

If you are concerned about file security on a daily basis, you should understand that deleting a file or folder, emptying the recycle bin, and defragging your hard drive, do not erase the contents of deleted files.

To demonstrate this point, try copying some larger files to a storage device like a diskette. You will see it takes a long time to copy. However, if you then select the copied files and delete them, you will see the operation happens instantly.

So, what accounts for this discrepancy in time?

The answer is straightforward: the operation system did not actually erase the contents of the deleted files as the user intended. Instead, it only erased the file's index in the Master File Table, leaving this information retrievable by anyone who has access to the disk.

This occurs because when a file or folder is stored on a computer, its data is stored in two places. Indexing details such as the file name, size and creation date are stored in a Master File Table, while the contents of the file are stored on the free space area of the disk or the file clusters.

So, in our example, when you copy a file to a diskette, the filename is first entered into the Master File Table and then clusters are set aside for storing the actual contents of the file. The process of copying the contents of a file to clusters is the time-intensive step of the file storage procedure.

In contrast, file deletion appears to occur almost instantaneously, because, in actuality, only a few bytes are altered in the Master File Index. This is why deleted files can easily be undeleted.

[Devil's Advocate]

{QUOTE-> While Deep Freeze is usually touted for its security (malware removed on reboot) another advantage is that you don't have to do maintenance on a frozen partition, so that if Office is installed on a frozen partition, all temp files would not remain on reboot. Naturally, you save your data files to a thawed partition.
<-QUOTE}

I don't know enough about Deep Freeze to know if the reboot gets rid of the staff...so it cannot be recovered. Do you?

Remember the question isn't about whether deep freeze can get ride/remove malware, but how it gets rid of them.

For all you know it works just like a normal file delete, so can be recovered as usual. Same thing for all those VM snapshots etc.

{QUOTE->
From what others say about how sand box progams work, I would think that you could set up something similar. <-QUOTE}

Well the simplest example is Sandboxie. It works to a degree, though you have to use your own secure eraser to remove the files cos the built in one
doesn't.

PS If you guys think it's a scam, so be it. I'm just trying to generate discussion.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> But the author of this app is posting here, so he can answer himself. <-QUOTE}
Thank you for introducing me to this forum community. I’ll be glad to answer any questions.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Interesting topic.

Can you explain here - by "vulnerable" do you mean someone could sit down at your computer and read files on your freespace? <-QUOTE}
The problem is not that someone will be trying to recover files every hour. The problem is that due to continuous file modifications some data will never be deleted in secure way. Because, some sectors are “locked” due to some reasons (related to another file, related to file that is in use).

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Another scenario would be the Fed/terrorists/enemy breaking in and grabbing your computer.

Someone sitting down and running a undelete program could work too of course. <-QUOTE}
More often, someone steal your notebook computer. Assume that you were keeping you data at secure encrypted disk, but it will still be possible to undelete some important data. The biggest security issue is that these files could contain cached passwords that will give an access to your documents and internet accounts.

[Sam Miller]

One more thought...
There are a lot of ways to make your data more secure, Shred Agent is a good option as it's stays in background and doesn't ask to do anything to make deletion secure, this program just do it itself. Actually, it’s a good choice for these users who don’t know much about file security.

[Devil's Advocate]

{QUOTE-> The problem is not that someone will be trying to recover files every hour. The problem is that due to continuous file modifications some data will never be deleted in secure way. Because, some sectors are “locked” due to some reasons (related to another file, related to file that is in use). <-QUOTE}

exactly. Didn't I say that already? Edit: never mind it seems i didn't

I close everything down, and there are still locked stuff. is there anyway to avoid this?

Also you didn't answer my question in my first post.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> exactly. Didn't I say that already? Edit: never mind it seems i didn't <-QUOTE}
Yes, exactly. I've just confirmed that you are right! By the way, some shredders simply report that everything was wiped, but actually they forget to tell about data that they couldn’t access.

{QUOTE-> I close everything down, and there are still locked stuff. is there anyway to avoid this? <-QUOTE}
This will not help much as many programs are running as so called system drivers, user you even not see them in Task Manager. Also, Windows itself (desktop) is an instance of Internet Explorer.

There is another way - do wipe free space when Windows is not booted, I mean doing it from some DOS program at floppy disk. But some data is locked in FAT table and it will not be accessible as well as from Windows.


And about the question that I missed first:

{QUOTE-> but i wonder how shred agent knows what to shred? <-QUOTE}
Few words about how files are managed in Windows. Programs don't access hard disk directly (by sectors, clusters and so on). Most programs, such as Word or Excel send a request to Windows, something like "DeleteFile('c:\file.txt')", Windows handles the rest of the job. It shows the deletion dialog if needed, it puts file into Recycle Bin and so on.

Shred Agent captures all requests to delete or move (actually "move" in Windows means "copy" + "delete") files in Windows. Technically, it's realized as a system driver, this gives Shred Agent the access to necessary functions.

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> I don't know enough about Deep Freeze to know if the reboot gets rid of the staff...so it cannot be recovered. Do you? ...Remember the question isn't about whether deep freeze can get ride/remove malware, but how it gets rid of them.

For all you know it works just like a normal file delete, so can be recovered as usual. Same thing for all those VM snapshots etc. <-QUOTE}No, I don't know how it works, but this is from their web site:

{QUOTE-> No matter what changes a user makes to a workstation, simply restart to eradicate all changes and reset the computer to its original state - right down to the last byte. <-QUOTE}By original, I assume that nothing written before reboot will remain to be recovered. Original implies source, not a copy, so couldn't include anything else.

I wrote Faronics a couple of years ago asking about similarities to ShadowUser, which creates a snapshot. They replied,

{QUOTE-> Thanks for the email; our software does not work in the same manner as the ShadowUser application - our software runs at a much lower level and does not require a snapshot of the drive to function. <-QUOTE}

That's all I know.

-rich

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> Another scenario would be the Fed/terrorists/enemy breaking in and grabbing your computer. <-QUOTE}I would be more concerned with a common thief stealing the computer. One option is to have a removeable carriage which you store elsewhere at night and when away. I replace mine with another carriage/HD that has nothing on it.

{QUOTE-> Someone sitting down and running a undelete program could work too of course. <-QUOTE}I would hope that everyone's computer is set up to make it almost impossible for someone to just sit down and run such a program.

-rich

[Rmus]

{QUOTE-> More often, someone steal your notebook computer. Assume that you were keeping you data at secure encrypted disk, but it will still be possible to undelete some important data. The biggest security issue is that these files could contain cached passwords that will give an access to your documents and internet accounts. <-QUOTE}Several businessmen/women I know keep such data on a USB stick rather than on the HD of the computer. Securing the stick presents is own problems, of course, but less likely to be targeted, as would be a laptop.

-rich

[lucas1985]

{QUOTE-> Shred Agent captures all requests to delete or move (actually "move" in Windows means "copy" + "delete") files in Windows. Technically, it's realized as a system driver, this gives Shred Agent the access to necessary functions. <-QUOTE}
hooking API calls?

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> hooking API calls? <-QUOTE}
Yes, exactly.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Several businessmen/women I know keep such data on a USB stick rather than on the HD of the computer. Securing the stick presents is own problems, of course, but less likely to be targeted, as would be a laptop.

-rich <-QUOTE}
Sure, this is very good idea. Also, it's a good idea to store files on-line (you will never loose such files), but people tend not to follow good ideas and we often read in news that notebook with important data was stolen…

I think one should be concerned about data security and there is now way to protect yourself for 100%, but combining different tools will give a good result.

[true north]

Sam Miller,
what do you mean by that:

"I think one should be concerned about data security and there is now way to protect yourself for 100%, but combining different tools will give a good result."

Could you give us some recommendations about this different tools??

Thanks

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Could you give us some recommendations about this different tools?? <-QUOTE}

As for file security:
1) Keep your files in secure place (TrueCrypt, freeware tool is great for this purpose);
2) Use file shredder, to make it impossible to recover your files;

As for other security tips, I'd recommend:
1) Use different passwords, not just one for all tasks;
2) Use some firewall (if you are using XP, the newest versions already has a firewall);
3) Use some popular anti-virus. Viruses is not a problem, if you don't open attached files, but some spyware that steal your passwords might be a problem.

I think this is enough.

P.S. And sure, don't forget backup you data regularly.

[Carver]

{QUOTE-> Sam Miller,
what do you mean by that:

"I think one should be concerned about data security and there is now way to protect yourself for 100%, but combining different tools will give a good result."

Could you give us some recommendations about this different tools??

Thanks <-QUOTE}
Here are some tools
1.A tool for wiping index.dat files http://support.it-mate.co.uk/?mode=Products&p=index.datsuite
2.Clean cashe 3.5 http://www.buttuglysoftware.com/
3.Eraser http://www.heidi.ie/eraser/
4.Truecrypt http://www.truecrypt.org/
All freeware

[true north]

Hi there,

What about this special cleaning tool:

R-Wipe and Clean 7.0 --- see: www.r-wipe.com ???

Thanks for your opinion.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> What about this special cleaning tool:

R-Wipe and Clean 7.0 --- see: www.r-wipe.com ???

Thanks for your opinion. <-QUOTE}

Tools like this combine file shredder and so called "system cleaner". For instance, you can clean your Internet Explorer or FireFox cache yourself, but tools like this make it quickly. We also have something similar - QuickWiper (http://www.quickwiper.com/), it suggests some system clearing and file wiping. But QuickWiper (as R-Wipe and other tools in this price category) lacks important feature - to wipe a file you will need to point a program to a certain file. That’s why background mode file shredder is better.

Cleaning recent files? - It’s a good idea, as it makes harder for possible intruder to locate important files, but there are recent files not just in Start > Recent, but in most other programs. By the way, we have released a RecentCleaner 1.2 (http://www.findprotected.com/solutions/recent-files/recentcleaner.htm) yesterday, sure it doesn't support everything, but the most popular programs. If you download it and try to generate report, you will see what data it is possible to recover from recent files.

[spy1]

Unless the program you're using (f.e, ShadowUser/Surfer or DeepFreeze) specifically tells you that the space it used to create its' running environment gets securely deleted when closed, then it's a certainty that it doesn't, which means the info there is still available to computer forensics unless something securely erases that space afterwards.

Sam - If you've glanced at this exit sequence I've described here: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=843140&postcount=17 , can you tell me whether or not your program would actually provide any added benefit? Pete

[LockBox]

Hi Sam: I tried installing 'Recent Cleaner' and got this:
http://aycu40.webshots.com/image/9479/2002347189195354752_rs.jpg
I tried reinstalling and I got the same message. What's up?

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Sam - If you've glanced at this exit sequence I've described here: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showpost.php?p=843140&postcount=17 , can you tell me whether or not your program would actually provide any added benefit? Pete <-QUOTE}
All browsers - IE, FireFox, Opera - are set to delete personal data/clear temp files/not remember history for longer than Zero days/remove d/l history upon exit, etc.)

Let's see, delete FireFox data and temporary files - this is great, but it still _delete_. I've tried to do it myself, I have cleared FireFox cache. Sure, I don't see all my visited pages in FireFox now, but let's try to recover some cache files and check them with any HEX editor. The result: I can see my links again! FireFox doesn’t wipe data, it just deletes. I've tried the same with Shred Agent and FireFox (1.5.0.9), now I was not able to recover my links. I'm sure the result will be the same for IE or Opera.

"Clear all events" - without backups. The same thing - Windows cannot wipe data, it just deletes this data and even after clearing I can see even log as a plain text.

The problem is that running wipe free space after clearing won't help, because of locked sectors. Sure, it will not be possible to recover whole files, but part of some files is not a problem.

So, yes, Shred Agent will make every your step really secure as it will wipe data, not delete.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Hi Sam: I tried installing 'Recent Cleaner' and got this <-QUOTE}
Thank you! I have forwared this bug to our developers, will fix it soon.

[true north]

Hi there,

to really get a full protected privacy/security does that means I need a two layer procedure?

1. use a sophisticated system cleaning/wiping software AND
2. ran a shredding/erasing software, preferable continuously in the background during online/off line activities ???

Thanks

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> to really get a full protected privacy/security does that means I need a two layer procedure?

1. use a sophisticated system cleaning/wiping software AND
2. ran a shredding/erasing software, preferable continuously in the background during online/off line activities ??? <-QUOTE}

Yes, but also you should run some anti-spyware software, i.e. anti-keylogger or better anti-virus with anti-keylogging function. This will provide sufficient security level.

[Hillsboro]

{QUOTE-> Thank you! I have forwared this bug to our developers, will fix it soon. <-QUOTE}

Hello Sam,

I had the same install problem too... Could you make a post here when it is fixed?

Questions:

Can't find much specific information on your web site regarding Shred Agent... What wiping algorithm are you using?

Is it clearing the MRU's and other flies in the registry as does BC Wipe?

Thanks...

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> I had the same install problem too... Could you make a post here when it is fixed? <-QUOTE}
It fixed now, but application still have some minnor bugs. The answer to your question in the next post.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Can't find much specific information on your web site regarding Shred Agent... What wiping algorithm are you using? <-QUOTE}What are DoD (or NSA) standards - these standards specify the number of passes (7, 10, 14, 1024?), but if it really makes your files more secure? The answer is NO. With today’s hard disks it doesn't matter if you overwrite file once or twice or 10 times. The information will be overwritten after one pass and it is quite enough.

Why publishers of file wipers like talking about number of passes? Actually, because some government agencies do so. These standards were invented for old hard disks (even data tape) many years ago.


Technically, it’s easy to change algorithm a little and perform any number of passes, but we do just one pass as it’s enough.

{QUOTE->
Is it clearing the MRU's and other flies in the registry as does BC Wipe? <-QUOTE}

No, it's just file shredder now. BC is not a background mode file shredder, it will not stay in background and make deletion operations secure enough. That's the main difference.

[Paranoid2000]

Those really concerned about temporary data could use a ramdisk to hold such files instead. That would avoid any issue about data being retained after power off.{QUOTE-> Why publishers of file wipers like talking about number of passes? Actually, because some government agencies do so. These standards were invented for old hard disks (even data tape) many years ago. <-QUOTE}Well Peter Gutmann's article (http://www.cs.auckland.ac.nz/~pgut001/pubs/secure_del.html) probably has a lot to do with it. Since the magnetic coercitivity of hard disks (their ability to "retain" magnetic patterns in informal terms) has increased (in line with increasing data densities) I'd be interested to know why you consider this no longer applies.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> Those really concerned about temporary data could use a ramdisk to hold such files instead. That would avoid any issue about data being retained after power off. <-QUOTE}
As for RAM disk yes, it's a great idea, but not all programs have such option. And all these temporary files are to make the work more stable and to save your data in a case of power off.

{QUOTE-> Since the magnetic coercitivity of hard disks (their ability to "retain" magnetic patterns in informal terms) has increased (in line with increasing data densities) I'd be interested to know why you consider this no longer applies. <-QUOTE}
Thank you for sharing this link, for sure Peter Gutmann is expert that wrote a lot about data security.

First, pay attention to publication date, the article was published in 1996 more than 10 years ago. I do remember all these floppy disks - big and
small one. They worked slowly and it was easy to corrupt the disk.

Second, there is no absolute way to solve any problem with security, so what we just try to control our risks. Here is a quotation from the article:
"the actual effect is closer to obtaining a 0.95 when a zero is overwritten with a one, and a 1.05" let's consider the assumption that 5% of data is not overwritten correctly. What does this mean? If you have a 100-characters line, then you will be able to read only five ramdomly positioned symbols. Something like this (applied to previous sentance):
" t r w d b "

but, you will not see spaces, instead, you will see some other characters:
"wottvbdfopewnjgreiobdkjvorivrvrvcxoiroegmergdfowvfoiermnreoxpfgrebndfirtdoifewfpofewffbbfd"

now, the probability to recognize the information is very low.

I don't have a link to share, but it's known that today hard disk will write data more accurate than in 1996.

Finally, just imagine, if 5% of your data would not be written correctly at hard disk then how many errors would you have in your documents, video, pictures?

Conclusion: it wasn't really necessary to overwrite data back in 1996, for sure, it's not necessary to do it today.

[Paranoid2000]

{QUOTE-> First, pay attention to publication date, the article was published in 1996 more than 10 years ago. I do remember all these floppy disks - big and
small one. They worked slowly and it was easy to corrupt the disk. <-QUOTE}Hmm...it seems unlikely that he was talking about floppies only. While hard disks have certainly greatly increased in capacity, there have been relatively few major changes to the techniques used for writing data (aside from PRML, only perpendicular recording comes to mind) so the article would still seem valid for magnetic media (flash storage being a different topic certainly).{QUOTE-> Here is a quotation from the article:
"the actual effect is closer to obtaining a 0.95 when a zero is overwritten with a one, and a 1.05" let's consider the assumption that 5% of data is not overwritten correctly. What does this mean? If you have a 100-characters line, then you will be able to read only five ramdomly positioned symbols. <-QUOTE}That example suggests more (to my eyes at least) the ability to identify the original data value despite 2 overwrites (it wouldn't be 0.95 unless it had been 0 previously). Now it may be harder to identify the original value from a frequently written bit, but given that disks implement checksumming at hardware level and most filesystems include further integrity checks, it seems likely that much more than 5% can be retrieved by using these checksums in combination with PRML.{QUOTE-> I don't have a link to share, but it's known that today hard disk will write data more accurate than in 1996. <-QUOTE}It seems that advances in accuracy are being used to increase capacity so while the precision of recording is certainly better, the tighter tolerances required are likely to cancel this out to a large part. However this is an area that only a forensic data recovery expert could discuss with authority.{QUOTE-> Finally, just imagine, if 5% of your data would not be written correctly at hard disk then how many errors would you have in your documents, video, pictures? <-QUOTE}Well if 95% of data could be retrieved (after 5% data loss), then this would certainly be enough to identify original content even if that content may not be fully usable. This situation is probably what users of secure erasure software want to avoid.{QUOTE-> Conclusion: it wasn't really necessary to overwrite data back in 1996, for sure, it's not necessary to do it today. <-QUOTE}That likely depends on users' situations and the applications used. For most, it is quite unlikely that they will ever need to do more than a basic delete - however if they do have a need for something more comprehensive (either due to sensitive data or a sensitive Significant Other), then it seems rather short-sighted not to offer multiple overwrites - even as an option.

[Sam Miller]

Frankly, neither in this article, nor in some other article over the net I have not seen any proof of this concept. If it is possible theoretically, then why there is no tool that can recover files overwritten ones? The answer is - because it's not really possible. The data remains irrecoverable even after one pass wiping.

The bigger problem is possible spyware software that make do hidden copies of files and keep them or send out by email. So, security is always about managing risks.

[Sam Miller]

Hi!
I’m writing to let everybody know about major Shred Agent upgrade. We have released a version 1.2 with wipe free space function.

Few words about how wipe free space works.. It's really fast, as it works at system drivers level... It's secure. Before doing wipe free space, Shred Agent asks if it can empty Recycle Bin and System Information Folder (here copies of deleted files are being placed), and sure after wipe free space it was not possible to recover any file data.

Minor issue is that it's still possible to see file names of deleted files, but these names are something like: ~file_na~4.~xt and sure, we are now working to fix this issue too.

Finally, with some scheduling tool, it's possible to run Shred Agent periodically via command line to wipe free space. It's very useful for system administrators.

Official press release is available at press section (http://www.shredagent.com/press/shred_agent_1_2_press_release.htm).

P.S.
We have a lot of feedback from Wilderssecurity forum visitors. Thank you for all your words and critiques!

[SafetyFirst]

{QUOTE-> For most, it is quite unlikely that they will ever need to do more than a basic delete - however if they do have a need for something more comprehensive (either due to sensitive data or a sensitive Significant Other), then it seems rather short-sighted not to offer multiple overwrites - even as an option. <-QUOTE}

I agree completely. Such an option would give user a certain peace of mind. It would be good to have that option, at least for psychological effect, if nothing else.

[Sam Miller]

{QUOTE-> I agree completely. Such an option would give user a certain peace of mind. It would be good to have that option, at least for psychological effect, if nothing else. <-QUOTE}
Sure, it's a good idea and not hard to implement, we will add it in future version. Just for psychological effect :)

[Rilla927]

For the folks in this thread that have used Shred Agent:

Does this program do everything it says it can do?

Just trying to get opinions. What do you guys think of the price?

[Devil's Advocate]

It seem to do what it claims to do. But who knows?

Maybe Sam should release one of those pesky demos tests to show the superiority of his product.....

[true north]

Hi there,

Shred Agent is not the only one who cleaned / deleted your computer activities ( online and offline) and shred /erase your data.
Have a look here: http://www.r-wipe.com/
This app. deletes what you want (a list can be made) and shred / wipe the contend at once. Schedules are not a problem; when ever you want your customized list will be deleted and immediately wiped/shredded.
Fast and secure !!!

Give it a try.

true north

[spy1]

{QUOTE->
Let's see, delete FireFox data and temporary files - this is great, but it still _delete_. I've tried to do it myself, I have cleared FireFox cache. Sure, I don't see all my visited pages in FireFox now, but let's try to recover some cache files and check them with any HEX editor. The result: I can see my links again! FireFox doesn’t wipe data, it just deletes. I've tried the same with Shred Agent and FireFox (1.5.0.9), now I was not able to recover my links. I'm sure the result will be the same for IE or Opera.

"Clear all events" - without backups. The same thing - Windows cannot wipe data, it just deletes this data and even after clearing I can see even log as a plain text.

The problem is that running wipe free space after clearing won't help, because of locked sectors. Sure, it will not be possible to recover whole files, but part of some files is not a problem.

So, yes, Shred Agent will make every your step really secure as it will wipe data, not delete. <-QUOTE}

Sam - All the stuff you mention there is totally "erased" - securely deleted - by Eraser (subsequent to the "deletions" by the other programs), since that's the last program that gets run.

No sale (especially not at that kind of price :o ) Pete

[true north]

To Pete (Spy 1),

Have a look at the delete and shred app. what I use:

www.r-wipe.com/

It's delete what you want and shred/wipe it immediately.

It works and is secure.

true north

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> It seem to do what it claims to do. But who knows?

Maybe Sam should release one of those pesky demos tests to show the superiority of his product..... <-QUOTE} That's a good idea!

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE->
No sale (especially not at that kind of price :o ) Pete <-QUOTE}
That's exactly what I thought!

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> To Pete (Spy 1),

Have a look at the delete and shred app. what I use:

www.r-wipe.com/ (http://www.r-wipe.com/)

It's delete what you want and shred/wipe it immediately.

It works and is secure.

true north <-QUOTE} Hey, this is a neat looking program and it's compatible with Opera. I came across this program before but then forgot about it.

Since I have never used this type of program before, is this one of those programs where I can destroy my computer by choosing the wrong options?

Do you wipe the free space first and after that just clean up all your tracks from there on in? True North can you elaborate on your use with this program?

Thanks for the link True North.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> For the folks in this thread that have used Shred Agent:

Does this program do everything it says it can do?

Just trying to get opinions. What do you guys think of the price? <-QUOTE}Rilla927,

I've made a couple of comments elsewhere (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17764706). As with any 1.x version of a program, there appear to be a few items to address and that includes the price.

Blue

[true north]

Hi,

here are the features of the:www.r-wipe.com/
software as a quotation:

R-Wipe & Clean 7.0 features
Total computer cleaning
{QUOTE-> You can:

* Verify and select information before irretrievable wiping.
* Wipe and delete temporary Internet files.
* Wipe and delete cookies, small files that web sites store on your computers for identification purposes. Your favorite cookies may be safely kept.
* Wipe and delete Flash cookies, small files that web sites create on your computer.
* Clean autocomplete forms : logins, user names, passwords and other personal information entered at web sites and keywords entered at search engines.
* Clean history: lists of visited web sites.
* Clean list of recently opened documents.
* Clean list of open file history.
* Clean Windows clipboard content.
* Wipe and delete temporary files created by Windows and other programs.
* Clean system Registry traces: run list, search results, mapped network drives, attached peripheral devices, last opened Registry key, etc.
* Clean MFUs: lists of most frequently used programs, start menu links and icons, Control Panel items, Favorite Web pages, and Internet Explorer buttons.
* Wipe .dat files (even locked) to remove any leftovers after incorrect Windows shutdowns.
* Wipe and delete offline content.
* Clean activity traces from more than 100 third-party applications, including Microsoft Office, standard Windows, and numerous popular programs. Installed applications are detected automatically.
* Create customized wipe lists to clean activity traces from any application that R-Wipe&Clean currently does not support. Such wipe lists may include application working and temporary folders and files, and registry keys.
* Wipe Windows swap files.
* Wipe and delete invalid Desktop shortcuts: the shortcuts that are on your Desktop but not linked to any existing objects.
* Clean Windows event logs.
* Wipe Windows built-in Firewall logs.
* Clean links to recent network folders.
* Wipe auxiliary temporary files: setup temporary and log files, memory dump files, old Check Disk files.. <-QUOTE}The important part compare to other cleaning / shredding
software is that after the deleting process follows immediately the shredding process. Depend on your size of files, folders and so on you deleted, it takes ONLY a few minutes and EVERYTHING is gone !! not recoverable.
There is NO NEED to run the unused disk space feature because what you deleted is removed from your computer
(securely overwritten - 1,3,7 or 34 times ).
You can customize the wiping list and of coures set your schedules.
Trial is 15 days and the price: 28.99 USD.

I can only recommend to try it out and play with it and go from there.
I use it for some time now and be totally satisfied.
But it depends what YOU need!

true north

[SafetyFirst]

{QUOTE->

R-Wipe & Clean 7.0 features
Total computer cleaning

I can only recommend to try it out and play with it and go from there.
I use it for some time now and be totally satisfied.
But it depends what YOU need!

true north <-QUOTE}

Do you think it's better than free alternatives like CCleaner and CleanCache?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Rilla927,

I've made a couple of comments elsewhere (http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,17764706). As with any 1.x version of a program, there appear to be a few items to address and that includes the price.

Blue <-QUOTE} Thanks Blue! You made a good point about the oops that you can't fix. I really liked the way this shredder worked (in the background) but when I seen that price I about fell off my chair, and said no way.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> Thanks Blue! You made a good point about the oops that you can't fix. I really liked the way this shredder worked (in the background) but when I seen that price I about fell off my chair, and said no way. <-QUOTE}Rilla927,

As with you, I like the approach followed. The vendor just needs to complete on execution. At this point the product has some rough edges, and that's not unexpected for a 1.x version level. They need to put it through a detailed validation protocol to address some of the deficiencies that I've observed and noted, and they need to get a realistic perspective on pricing.

Parenthetically, I inquired about the competitive upgrade when I was examining this product and did end up making an impulse purchase - that price was fine.

As for the oops potential, that simply points to some additional configuration flexibility that's needed/desired. But even without it (say an ability to exclude My Documents), I don't have a major problem using the product since it is few and far between that I'm left high and dry with a file fumble.

The basic idea is appears sound and is one that I'd use once the rough edges are smoothed out.

Blue

[true north]

To SafetyFirst,

the app. mentioned above is much better than the free cleaner; but that app. is not free. There are many good cleaning apps. out there but the major difference is they DO NOT wipe / shred what they delete. Only "ShredAgent" and "Wipe and Clean" doing this. Try things out and you will see how it works.

true north

[SafetyFirst]

{QUOTE-> There are many good cleaning apps. out there but the major difference is they DO NOT wipe / shred what they delete. Only "ShredAgent" and "Wipe and Clean" doing this. <-QUOTE}

Are you saying that CCleaner and CleanCache do not wipe/shred? They both have secure deletion in their options: CCleaner 1,3, or 7 overwrites and CleanCache single pass (random bytes), DoD 5220.22-M STD (3pass) or Gutmann (35 pass)...

[Genady Prishnikov]

{QUOTE-> To SafetyFirst,

the app. mentioned above is much better than the free cleaner; but that app. is not free. There are many good cleaning apps. out there but the major difference is they DO NOT wipe / shred what they delete. Only "ShredAgent" and "Wipe and Clean" doing this. Try things out and you will see how it works.

true north <-QUOTE}

What? Disinformation alert! There are dozens and dozens of programs that wipe/shred/erase/whatever you choose to call it, rather than simply delete. ERASER. Window Washer. CCleaner. Tracks Eraser Pro. History Cleaner. Stellar Wipe. Total Wipe Pro. This list could go on and on. Many of these have plug-ins or built-in tools that allow you to erase the data left behind by custom applications and not just the usual offenders.

[BlueZannetti]

{QUOTE-> What? Disinformation alert! There are dozens and dozens of programs that wipe/shred/erase/whatever you choose to call it, rather than simply delete. <-QUOTE}Correct!

There are many free and paid programs that wipe files and disk free space. The thread started with a consideration of Shred Agent. The end result should be nominally the same with any of the products mentioned. Although I have not performed an extensive product comparison myself, the primary differentiator claimed for this product is that it is a background shredder acting on each file deletion as it occurs. In other words, it's a realtime shredder, not an on-demand shredder. Personally, I think this is a nice differentiating feature and is something I'd pay a nominal amount for, but the key word there is nominal.

Blue

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Correct!

There are many free and paid programs that wipe files and disk free space. The thread started with a consideration of Shred Agent. The end result should be nominally the same with any of the products mentioned. Although I have not performed an extensive product comparison myself, the primary differentiator claimed for this product is that it is a background shredder acting on each file deletion as it occurs. In other words, it's a realtime shredder, not an on-demand shredder. Personally, I think this is a nice differentiating feature and is something I'd pay a nominal amount for, but the key word there is nominal.

Blue <-QUOTE} Hi Blue,

Your comments do help with considering a purchase. I do really like the idea of the shredder wiping in the background. I thinks it's a great idea.

I wonder how a program like this would affect First Defence -ISR when doing a copy/update of a snapshot?

Also, programs like Kav that's always scanning.

Hopefully, someone here has used these programs and give some results.

What programs are included for the competitive upgrade?