Ballmer: Linux Infringes on Microsoft Intellectual Property

[tgell]

I guess we now know why Microsoft signed that deal with Novell. What a bunch of Bulls--t.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nf/20061120/bs_nf/48036

[Demoras]

Well, that's messed up. I hope Microsoft doesn't screw up Linux or anything. Microsoft isn't worthy of Linux.

[trickyricky]

And Microsoft Windows infringes on Apple intellectual property. It's how the world works for everyone except lawyers... ::)

[Nick Rhodes]

And remember, its alleged patent infringement as it has not been taken to any court of law period.

So MS probably used bully techniques to force Novell into the partnership.

[iceni60]

no, ms owns FAT and some other stuff too, they would win in court.

it's how the software industry works - patent portfolios. ms can't go after linux because they have fewer patents then the big linux companies like IBM. all the novell/ms deal means is their customers can use each others software with out the other company sueing them

big companies can't go after each other, it would be the end for them.

patent portfolios just stop small developers from sueing big companies if the big company infinges on someone's patent, because the big comapny will then say "well you are using one of our patents in another part of your software, so we'll sue you back"

there's probably more to it, but that's how i see it.

[dog]

In the end this will all wash out. ;) This is just preditory Microsoft showing their true face again, and Novell being complete fools. I don't by Novells open letter (http://www.novell.com/linux/microsoft/community_open_letter.html) to the issue at all, well no one does, their just scrambling from the fallout. Like mono, SuSE will fall by the wayside - they have a big issue with the Samba team (http://news.samba.org/announcements/team_to_novell/), GPLv3 if not already in breach of GPLv2, will either lead to Microsoft backing out (GPLv3 implications) or SuSE being in breach of the GPL and not being able to redistribute GPL code, which includes the kernel.

Here's a couple of interesting articles:

Groklaw : Novell Speaks - Updated (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061120203431766)

Groklaw : SFLC's Bradley M. Kuhn's Letter to the FOSS Development Community Regarding Microsoft's Patent Promise (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061109111321376)

Groklaw : Novell to Samba: We're Not Terminating MS Agreement (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061119163021490)

Groklaw : Getting Cute with the GPL (http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20061116103031303)

--- I'm still looking for a seperate article where Eben Moglen discusses strategies of thrawting Microsofts 'plans' and scuttling the Novell deal. --- I can't locate it at the moment, I don't remember which site I had read the story on :-\ I'll insert it here, if I find it ;)
--- EDIT: Found the link thanks to Lucas' post below --- http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-11-21T055728Z_01_L20597961_RTRUKOC_0_US-MICROSOFT-LINUX.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C5-technologyNews-3

Patent Infringement - Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patent_infringement)

[lucas1985]

Link (http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11299)
;D

[dog]

-{ Quote: "Link (http://techreport.com/onearticle.x/11299)
;D" }-Thanks Lucas ;) :) ... While that isn't the exact article I read, it is basically the same. 8) ... and led me to the Reuters article I had read -- http://today.reuters.com/news/articlenews.aspx?type=technologyNews&storyID=2006-11-21T055728Z_01_L20597961_RTRUKOC_0_US-MICROSOFT-LINUX.xml&WTmodLoc=Home-C5-technologyNews-3

-{ Quote: "[Moglen] and others have started work on updating the license to close the loophole by saying a promise not to sue, such as the one given by Microsoft, would be automatically applicable to everyone. ... That would effectively flip Microsoft's agreement on its head and guarantee that no one would face a suit from Microsoft if anyone were protected.

"A clause like that would not be difficult to get community agreement on these days," Moglen said, adding that a change could be ready in weeks or months. " }-

Steve

[lucas1985]

Novell looks like a fool if this is true ;D
Microsoft again ::) ::) ::)

[Nick Rhodes]

And remember the patent has'nt been granted in the EU.

[dog]

If this latest fiasco (bullsh!t) doesn't show what M$ is REALLY about and if it doesn't put off, if not scare current users ... I don't know what will. The current events plus the events over then last year or so, should give most users the reason to rebel and ditch M$. It's time to slay the beast. ;) 8)

[lucas1985]

Perhaps financing SCO isn´t enough ;D
But Linux is not yet ready for prime time, not in my opinion. It needs more driver support "out of the box" and still more work towards the friendliness with the user

[dog]

-{ Quote: "But Linux is not yet ready for prime time, not in my opinion. It needs more driver support "out of the box" and still more work towards the friendliness with the user" }-I would've agreed a year ago, but today most distros have very good support (Minus SuSE for other reasons mentioned in this thread) and are just as user friendly as M$ (No question Linux isn't M$, it's different, but it is just as user friendly IMO now a days).

[ErikAlbert]

Winux is on its way !!! ;)

[dog]

-{ Quote: "Winux is on its way !!! ;)" }-That's the only way to make Windows better ... but M$ couldn't swallow the GPL, of course they could use the communities ideas and write new code to skirt around it - which is what they'd likely do - they certainly aren't the hotbed of innovation - if you can't do it, steal it from others and try to call it your own. :-X :lurking:

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "I would've agreed a year ago, but today most distros have very good support (Minus SuSE for other reasons mentioned in this thread) and are just as user friendly as M$ (No question Linux isn't M$, it's different, but it is just as user friendly IMO now a days)." }-
I have to disagree ;)
For example, the drivers of one of the two main VGAs suppliers(ATI) are a PITA for all but the skilled users. Sometimes a driver needs a library and if you aren´t very knowledgable this can cause you a strong headache ;D
How about technical support? You probably have a neighbor/friend that knows something about Windows. If you have Linux installed, the web support can be the only solution, if you are lucky enough to have Internet connection

But Linux is better and closer to Joe each day ;D

[dog]

AMD aquistion of ATI, I think, will change that in short order, while I can't disagree that currently 'some' things can be more tricky, most distros have a plf solution that will work without issue (ATI Blob). Actually I think web support, thru wiki's, forums, IRC far outweigh any other support, whether paid or the next door neighbour, the bonus is the enduser will actually learn something IMO - thru trial and error, rather than the lame support most tech support usually provide. ;) While it can be initially difficult, who should be the master?; the PC or the guy/gal in the chair? While options can be limited when code remains close sourced and the company doesn't provide solutions for *nix, pressure will change that, whether thru word (written letters etc.), the wallet or (r)evolution. :)

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "AMD aquistion of ATI, I think, will change that in short order" }-
Hope this will happen in the near future

-{ Quote: "Actually I think web support, thru wiki's, forums, IRC far outweigh any other support, whether paid or the next door neighbour, the bonus is the enduser will actually learn something IMO - thru trial and error, rather than the lame support most tech support usually provide. ;) While it can be initially difficult, who should be the master?; the PC or the guy/gal in the chair?
" }-
Well said, but most users prefer to call you instead of learn something minimal. In my country, boxes with Linux peinstalled are
automatically replaced with pirate copies of Windows which are very cheap(5 USD for instance)

-{ Quote: "While options can be limited when code remains close sourced and the company doesn't provide solutions for *nix, pressure will change that, whether thru word (written letters etc.), the wallet or (r)evolution. :)" }-
Popular pressure rocks ;)

[dog]

As an example currently I have to choose between Compiz and ATI 3D accel. support (all my PCs have ATI Video Cards), to me the benefits of Compiz outweigh my need for ATI 3D accel., when/if I feel the need to play a game like Neverball or whatever, I'll uninstall Compiz and install/activate the ATI support needed (which isn't too hard regardless of user level). I think the biggest issue for new linux users, that haven't shed proprietary software completely is where they can obtain the 'plf' solutions, which isn't too difficult, a quick google will lead anyone to what they need to do. ;) 8)

I myself am still re-ripping my music into flac, which up until now I have ripped to mp3.

[dog]

-{ Quote: "Hope this will happen in the near future" }- AMD have hinted as much [I don't have a link handy - My apologies]-{ Quote: "Well said, but most users prefer to call you instead of learn something minimal. In my country, boxes with Linux peinstalled are
automatically replaced with pirate copies of Windows which are very cheap(5 USD for instance)" }- While I can't condone that, I can certainly understand it --- the price of Windows is oppressive no matter the country -{ Quote: "Popular pressure rocks ;)" }-I certainly does. :D ~Power to the People~ 8)

[dog]

While somewhat OT it seems someone (Dave Mitchell) has extracted the Redmond TAX (http://www.networkworld.com/news/2006/110706-dell-windows.html) from DELL ... eventually the people will prevail. ;) :)

Ps. Lucas my name is Steve BTW - Nice to meet you. ;) 8)

[dog]

Back on topic ... M$ made a statement in response to Novells open letter ... -{ Quote: "In short, Microsoft is admitting that Novell never agreed, as some critics of the deal have claimed, to Microsoft's vague contentions of patent violations in Linux. The Microsoft spokesperson goes on to make this crystal clear.

"We at Microsoft respect Novell's point of view on the patent issue, even while we respectfully take a different view. Novell is absolutely right in stating that it did not admit or acknowledge any patent problems as part of entering into the patent collaboration agreement. At Microsoft we undertook our own analysis of our patent portfolio and concluded that it was necessary and important to create a patent covenant for customers of these products. We are gratified that such a solution is now in place."

The Microsoft response also contained further acknowledgment that Microsoft has been forced to recognize that Linux is here to stay and that its programs must work with it, rather than simply dismiss it." }-Full Artcile (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8308472991.html)

[lucas1985]

-{ Quote: "Back on topic ... M$ made a statement in response to Novells open letter ... Full Artcile (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8308472991.html)" }-
I want to know the M$ shareholders´ opinion on these attacks against Linux and the terrible reputation that they generate
Balmer must be very afraid ;D ::)
Could this be a message towards shareholders now that Gates is leaving the company? A message that guarantees the continuity of the current business model?

OT on/
-{ Quote: "I myself am still re-ripping my music into flac, which up until now I have ripped to mp3." }-
You have a hard time ahead ;D Tagging, creating the directory structure, scanning the booklet, etc. if you are very anal about this like me ;D
Don´t forget to try WavPack (http://www.wavpack.com/)
Sadly, Windows has an edge over Linux in the ripping arena. EAC (http://www.exactaudiocopy.de/) + REACT (http://www.hydrogenaudio.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=50273) are better than cdparanoia + front-ends
-{ Quote: "Ps. Lucas my name is Steve BTW - Nice to meet you. ;) 8)" }-
Thanks. Nice to meet you too ;) This is my first experience in a English forum. I´ve been reading Wilders for a long time but only now I´ve decided to register. I don´t trust my English skills very much :-[
OT off/

[Nick Rhodes]

-{ Quote: "Back on topic ... M$ made a statement in response to Novells open letter ... Full Artcile (http://www.linux-watch.com/news/NS8308472991.html)" }-

"Our agreement with Microsoft is in no way an acknowledgment that Linux infringes upon any Microsoft intellectual property. To claim otherwise is to further sow fear, uncertainty and doubt, and does not offer a fair basis for competition."

Yes, I said this earlier in the thread, that it was only an alleged patent infringement (and then in the USA only).

[ronjor]

Perspective: Microsoft has OS patents; Linux has none

-{ Quote: "Contrary to the numerous rants in the open-source community, the recent deal between Microsoft and Novell--in which the companies have agreed to interoperability, reselling and patent protection--is actually an excellent business deal and a good thing for the open-source community." }- Article (http://news.com.com/Microsoft+has+OS+patents+Linux+has+none/2010-7344_3-6140341.html?tag=nefd.top)

[Chuck57]

I'm not sure what to think about this. I'm kind of lost as to why, if MS is accusing Novell of infringement, why is MS paying Novell $440 million? Seems as though if Novell is the guilty party, they'd be the one paying. But, I'm a human, not a lawyer.

There were rumors years ago when Linux started making inroads onto MS turf that MS would looking into using the Linux OS mainly because of the security problems and stability issues, much like Apple did with BSD. Maybe this is the start.