Creating bootable media

[timmy]

The program (v10) offers two choices, "safe" and "full" at 16 and 43 megaunits respectively. Don't know if this implies that the full version is somehow UNsafe? Anyway, we tried to make the full version, but all that comes out is the 16 (and not 43) megaunit file. Tried numerous times, making sure that the right boxes were checked. Is this a bug in the program?

[mvincent]

You want the full version which includes the "safe mode" that does not have USB/SCSI drivers on it.

I had some issues creating this as well. If you make a CD it does not seem to have all the files. So I did this. Create the meadia on a USB key and then make an ISO of that. That worked for me.

[timmy]

So there is a problem them. What is a "USB key" and where would I find it? I DO want the "full" (43megaunit) backup disk, but can't get it. This would appear to be a SERIOUS issue if it turns out that it's not just me.

[bVolk]

I would think that the "safe" term has been used according to Windows terminology, where a safe boot starts only a limited number of services/processes that are necessary for the basic functioning of the OS. The full version of TI is not unsafe, albeit some components included in it may cause issues on some setups. In this case, trying to run the safe version is recommended. Same as for Windows.

From TI9 experience only, I would suggest you include both versions on the Rescue CD. First, because you may need any one, and then because that may solve your CD creation problem.

[timmy]

Oh I see yes thanks, now I understand about "safe." And I WOULD like to include both the safe and the full on the boot disk, except the Acronis True Image 10 won't let me. All it will give you is the smaller, safe version, no matter which boxes you check. I would say this is a serious deficiency in the program, assuming it's not just me, and I don't think it is.

This too: I went ahead and made a boot disk using the safe format. But the computer won't recognize it. I set the machine to boot first from a CD, but it still won't start from the CD. The other fellow said to first make the info on the CD an "ISO" so I went ahead and made a second CD doing that. But it still would not work. This is all very confusing.

How do you make a CD that is "bootable"? What do you need to do to make it thus?

[mvincent]

...OK. There is sn issue with the bootable media TI creates for CD/DVD in the fact that IT IS NOT BOOTABLE!

Here is what you do....

1. Use a USB thumb drive to make the media bootable by selecting that as the option in Acronis. (memory stick, usb key etc whatever you want to call it)

2. you will notice that you now have all the Linux files on the USB drive that are needed to boot. I would personally use this as drivers are updated often and you may need to update this....however now you can get these files to CD

Use a program like WinISO or WinIMAGE to create an ISO if you dont know how to do this with your burning software.

3. Make an ISO of the thumb drive with all the necessary files

4. Burn that ISO back to a CD/DVD and wallah. You boot

Kind of silly for a program that should do all that for you but oh well. At least you get an answer from someone on this damn forum since I think Tech Support is sleeping :isay:

Oh and BTW, SAFE MODE = NO SCSI or USB DRIVERS. Full version is what you almost always want to use

---MV

[bVolk]

-{ Quote: "The other fellow said to first make the info on the CD an "ISO" so I went ahead and made a second CD doing that. But it still would not work. This is all very confusing.

How do you make a CD that is "bootable"? What do you need to do to make it thus?" }-

With Roxio Easy Media Creator you would just double-click the .ISO file created by TI and step through the wizard.

If you have some other burning software others will help.

[timmy]

Well I followed all instructions. Used a "thumb drive" as the place to put the files created by the media builder. Then copied the info from the thumb drive, which still was only 16 mega units and not 43, to a cd, actually two cds, one just regular and the other as "iso." And neither of them would boot. So far I have used and discarded a dozen CDs in this impossible project. It is not going to work.

Sooo, this is what I did. Remembering that I had created a bootable meadia CD from the previous (v.9) edition of the True Image, I used THAT to boot...and it worked perfectly. I then removed the version 10 completely (I hope I got it all off!) from the computer, and have re-installed the old version 9.

On the face of it, this is a disgraceful situation from the manufacturer. They plainly state:

This wizard will help you to create bootable media for Acronis products (or their specific components) installed on your computer. When your computer cannot boot normally, you can run the product from this CD.

Well that appears to be totally untrue. And nobody seems to have noticed it except us. You have said above that it is NOT bootable. Yet the instructions say "create BOOTABLE media." And no mention of first having to copy it to a thumb drive, then making an iso of that, then on your own and not using their wizard at all you somethow copy that to the CD...all these complicated extra steps which they don't mention, and which in any event don't seem to work anyhow, at least they didn't in this house. How can all this go unremarked upon both by the manufacturer and by presumably hundreds and maybe thousands of users?

[timmy]

3. Make an ISO of the thumb drive with all the necessary files

4. Burn that ISO back to a CD/DVD and wallah. You boot.


Step 4 am not sure how to do it? Do I just copy the entire ISO file to a CD? I tried that already, and it still would not boot. Or do you have to do something else other than just copy and paste the ISO file?

Another curious thing I have noticed is that the copied items total only 15 mega units, but if you check the "properties" it says "46"? Yet if you recheck the actual items, count them, and also look at the tool bar at the bottom where it shows the total file size, it says "15" ..and you also count 15, and NOT 46. Yet the program poperties say 46. Impossible, but true. Does anybody know how this can be?

[Ralphie]

An ISO file is one that can be burned to a CD using burner software. NOTE: It cannot be burned as a data cd. Look for the "Burn using an .iso image file" feature of the software.

[bVolk]

timmy,

It's hard to believe to be a general bug. This place would be swarming with complaints if it were. The Rescue CD burning is something every sensible user does upon first launching TI after installation.

In my opinion it's either a single case issue (a corrupted download/installation or an incompatibility with your system) or some error made in burning the .ISO file. I would suggest you tell which burning software you use to receive detailed instructions on how to burn the bootable CD from those who also use it.

In the meantime you may want to uninstall TI and install it again. That often does wonders.

[Xpilot]

The method I use to make TI rescue CDs is simplicity itself. It has worked for all builds of Version 8 Version 9 and now the latest Version 10.
I open the CD drawer and put a blank CD-R in the tray and leave it open. I then start the Create bootable rescue media wizard. I tick all the boxes and point to the CD/RW drive. When I press the proceed button the drawer closes and the CD is burned .

I always use a fresh CD-R because I like to keep a copy of one for each build. I do not close the drawer before TI is ready. If the drawer is closed early any other installed CD software will invisibly reserve the drive and the TI software may not be able to complete it's own process.

Never used ISOs or any third party software to make a bootable rescue CD.

Xpilot

[jimshu1]

OK, I'm pretty confused now. Despite some bugs, I have always been able to make a bootable TI Rescue CD, and still can with version 10.

My confusion is over whether or not I'm getting all of the necessary files copied over to the CD with version 10 Home.

I have burnt two Rescue CD's, choosing just the "Full" version option. The program tells me it will take around 35Mb. I get 16Mb on the CD and it does boot and appears to work?

I use the ISO option and choose both "Full" and "Safe" and the program tells me it will take around 47Mb. I create the .iso file and get 16.8Mb? Extracted, the files are around 16Mb, same as the CD's which I only chose "Full" to make. Maybe "Full" contains both, but I believe I do not get an option to boot "Safe" from it.

So, are my Rescue CD's OK? Is 16Mb on the bootable Rescue CD correct?

[Xpilot]

16 MB on the rescue cd is correct. The main folder contains 7 files and that is it.

When you boot from it you will get the choices menu ie. safe or full. You have not been short changed !


Xpilot

[timmy]

We still are unable, despite following all instructions carefully, to get the boot cd to work (ie: boot, it just is not recognized by the computer). But...we have a boot cd we made from the older version 9, and that does work. Question: Can we use the boot cd from ver. 9 with the new ver 10? Or does each version required a separate boot cd, and one made just from it?

[Xpilot]

-{ Quote: "We still are unable, despite following all instructions carefully, to get the boot cd to work (ie: boot, it just is not recognized by the computer). But...we have a boot cd we made from the older version 9, and that does work. Question: Can we use the boot cd from ver. 9 with the new ver 10? Or does each version required a separate boot cd, and one made just from it?" }-

Hello Timmy,

There has been some error in the creation of your V 10 recovery CD. The size on disk should be 16 MB not 15 MB. The size in bytes should be 16,777,216 bytes in seven files.
Boot menu 1,853,440 Bytes on disk
Boot wiz 22528 do.
F11 Cfg 2048 do.
Kernel dat 665,600 do.
Mouse 6144 do.
Ramdisk dat 14,202,880 do.
Splash run 24,576 do.

You could try burning the CD once more and if that does not work a fresh download and reburn is called for.

As to using a V9 CD with a V10 backup the answer is probably. I have not tried it and if it is something you want to do check it out on your computer.

I would suggest that if you are going to do a restore that you do it to a spare drive for absolute safety. That is the way I always do my restores whatever CD or build I am using.

Xpilot

[timmy]

Mr. Xpilot, your details instrs much appreciated. We will start over and attempt to match exactly the specs you presented and will then get back.

But this: Does the boot CD have to be "formatted" somehow? The boot Cd we made just contains a list of ithe tems. It is a "data" CD. The young fellow above said something abut data cd's not working as boot cds. What "magic" do you have to do to a cd to make it a "boot" cd?

[Xpilot]

Hello timmy,
I cannot advise you on using third party or Iso methods to make a bootable cd because I only have used the Arconis wizard for this function.

How I do it is detailed in my post No. 12 above.

Xpilot

[timmy]

The method I use to make TI rescue CDs is simplicity itself. It has worked for all builds of Version 8 Version 9 and now the latest Version 10.
I open the CD drawer and put a blank CD-R in the tray and leave it open. I then start the Create bootable rescue media wizard. I tick all the boxes and point to the CD/RW drive. When I press the proceed button the drawer closes and the CD is burned.

Well yes, we did that too. Just followed the obvious steps. Except it would not work. We were of course careful to set the bios so that the machine would boot first from the CD. Still no go.

Right now we are removing v9 and reinstalling v10 and will start the whole business all over again. Perhaps a trip to church might help, will say a pray to Our Lady of Guadalupe, who sometimes offers miracles.

[como]

Be aware that the main files on the rescue cd are Linux, Windows will not be able to see them.

This could be the reason why you can see only 16+ mg and not the 47 mg quoted above

[timmy]

Ah most interesting. Am not sure what linux is but that would explain the deeep mystery why the "properties" says 47 but when you open the folder, all that's contained within is 15 or 16. Do you need "linux"?

[como]

-{ Quote: "Ah most interesting. Am not sure what linux is but that would explain the deeep mystery why the "properties" says 47 but when you open the folder, all that's contained within is 15 or 16. Do you need "linux"?" }-

Linux is a open source operating system, google it for more information

You do not need Linux on your machine to run TI

[timmy]

Alright, finally got it working, thanks to all of you and to Divine Intervention.

To Mr. Xpilot: We did get the exact seven files you mentioned. Many thanks! The "sizes" do not match, (examples: you got 1853, we got 1810; you got 665, we got 650, and so on; none of them are the same but it still seems to work anyhow. Not sure what "DO" means (it appears after each of your figures) perhaps that explains the difference? Anyhow, would not have had the courage to proceed without your asst. And most grateful to Mr. Como for explanation of why 47 only showed up as 16. Would have gone thru all eternity wondering about that had he not revealed the secret.

Mr. Vincent above had said that using the wizard would give you a disk that was "NOT BOOTABLE!" -{ Quote: " so I thought Well he must know what he is talking about, and it matches my experience, so I went ahead assuming that was true. Which shows you can't always believe everything you are told no matter how forcefully it is stated. The business about copying it to a thumb drive also pooped out, the several CDs I made using that did not work and were added to already sizable coaster collection.

[jimshu1]

Thanks to all. I've learned a lot, especially that Linux files do not appear in Windows. Makes sense, but never thought of it.

I have never used TI to burn directly to CD-R or DVD-R, although I use to do that with Ghost. It does not appear that option exists using the Rescue CD, is that correct?

For that matter, the Rescue CD doesn't appear to see my optical drive(s), at least on the IBM laptop I'm working at. I sure don't think that's right, is it?

I'll try at home tonight on other systems.

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "I have never used TI to burn directly to CD-R or DVD-R, although I use to do that with Ghost. It does not appear that option exists using the Rescue CD, is that correct?" }-Hi jimshu1,

TI has been able to create an image to CD-R/RW from within the Linux based boot rescue environment for quite a few versions now. However, only since TI 9.0 Home Build 3633 have you been able to image direct to DVD from the rescue environment.

Regards

[timmy]

Does that, the business about linux, explain why the Acronis program occupies more than 100 mega units, but only shows up as 49 megaunits in the program file where it is stored? What happened to the other 51?

[mvincent]

-{ Quote: "
Mr. Vincent above had said that using the wizard would give you a disk that was "NOT BOOTABLE!" so I thought Well he must know what he is talking about, and it matches my experience, so I went ahead assuming that was true. Which shows you can't always believe everything you are told no matter how forcefully it is stated. The business about copying it to a thumb drive also pooped out, the several CDs I made using that did not work and were added to already sizable coaster collection." }-

Timmy, I cannot explain what you simply do not understand.
Here are a few facts take them or leave them as I dont quite care but was merely trying to help:
The bootable linux files do not always work on all workstation implementations. I have witnessed this many times as a network manager for a large company using this product. You claimed to have made the CD/DVD properly and it would not boot therefore one would assume that you have this issue.

The usb trick will allow all files to be visible to you. It is not that the linux files are not visible to Windows. That is a non-factual statement, Windows can see unix/linux files just fine. It is the format of the boot sector on the media that you may not be able to see. Hence the USB trick will make ALL FILES visible to you that the program is using.

The ISO will boot fine if you know what you are doing. Others can't walk you through every single step so you should do some reading yourself based on what was stated.

That said, I am glad you got it to work, but as you can see, no one has disacknowledged my statements as they are fact....that unfortunately you did not understand.


MV

[Menorcaman]

Some links extracted from the Acronis Support thread titled "Please Read Before You Post" on how to burn bootable ISO files to CD:

http://trb.org/publications/burning_iso.html
(Nero Burning ROM and Roxio Easy CD Creator)

http://iso.snoekonline.com/iso.htm
http://www.petri.co.il/how_to_write_iso_files_to_cd.htm
(other applications)

Regards

[como]

-{ Quote: "The business about copying it to a thumb drive also pooped out, the several CDs I made using that did not work and were added to already sizable coaster collection." }-

I and many others use RW cd’s for the rescue disk, as you have to make a new disk for every new build it saves on the coaster pile and your pocket.

If you use two disks, one for the current build and keep the one made with the previous build, then you are covered if the new build doesn’t see all your hardware for some reason. To overwrite the old disk with the new build you first have to erase the old disk with your burning program.

[timmy]

Mr. Vincent you will hopefully forgive me for beating up on you. As usual in these cases it isn't YOU but issues the other person is having, in this case for ex my wife is threatening to divorce me, mainly because I allowed the plumber, who charged me $1,500 just to regrout a shower, to let the yellow cat out, who I loved also, and who now is vanished, and I just read in the newspaper that the teenaged son of our local councilwoman was given a summer job plumb "snack bar mgr of the municipal pool" for $35,000! (and the pool is open only 12 weeks, excluding rainy days and holidays) whereas I never earned it for a full year's work, and other things like that.

Anyhow, re as you have to make a new disk for every new build
that info by your colleague interesting, was wondering about that. I will thus label the old disk vér9 and the new one v10.

One last question: do you need the "secure zone" in order to restore your computer if you use one of these boot disks? I have the backup information stored on a second hard drive (main drive is C, and backup is on "D") so am hoping that would work, but so far have not tested because it's not been necessary to restore the computer from the boot disk. Have not used that secure zone and trying to keep things simple if poss.

Actually not quite last, but this is: What happened to the other 51 mega units? The true image downbload was 100, but "program files" show only 49 once I unpacked it. 51 are gone missing.

[shieber]

It's not Linux, it's BART. Half the install size is due to the BART PE plug-in stuff, which installs copies of much of the program material in separate directories.

If you do a custom install and skip the BART, the installed material will be about half and the program fully funcitonal -- excetp that you won't be able to as easily build a BART PE CD.

-{ Quote: "Does that, the business about linux, explain why the Acronis program occupies more than 100 mega units, but only shows up as 49 megaunits in the program file where it is stored? What happened to the other 51?" }-

[timmy]

Oh I see thanks. Does the Bart Pe program do anything that is necessary? Who or what is Bart? How did he/it get involved. I did a search on my computer, all drives, for the word "bart" but nothing. Those 51 mega units must be hiding somewhere, possibly under a different name?

which installs copies of much of the program material in separate directories [where would those directories be found?]

[timmy]

Found out re "Bart." He is a person, found his web site. Thing is, the program he offers only 3 mega units and not 51? That still leaves 48 units unaccounted for. Not sure what his program does, I read all the stuff there, but it's pretty technical. Duno how he got involved with the Acronis Co.?

[Menorcaman]

Hello timmy,

-{ Quote: "One last question: do you need the "secure zone" in order to restore your computer if you use one of these boot disks? I have the backup information stored on a second hard drive (main drive is C, and backup is on "D") so am hoping that would work, but so far have not tested because it's not been necessary to restore the computer from the boot disk. Have not used that secure zone and trying to keep things simple if poss." }-No, with your setup you do not need a Secure Zone (SZ).

The Acronis SZ and the associated Acronis Startup Recovery Manager (SRM) is primarily targeted at people with computers that have only one hard drive and possibly no floppy drive or CD/DVD drive to boot the rescue media from. However, some users choose to use the SZ (without activating the SRM) to automatically manage the number of incremental/differential images they create.

-{ Quote: "Actually not quite last, but this is: What happened to the other 51 mega units? The true image downbload was 100, but "program files" show only 49 once I unpacked it. 51 are gone missing." }-You will find most of your "missing" Megabytes under Program Files > Common Files > Acronis.

Regards

[timmy]

Hey thanks. That info most helpful to me. I was wondering a long time if it was ok the way I was doing it, viz using a second hard drive and not the secure zone. Really apprec. your info. rgds