Newbie needs help with ATI 9 usage

[msmisfit]

I am trying to backup my *entire* hard drive with ATI 9.0 Home, to a Maxtor backup external drive [whose software would not backup the O/S files, etc.].

I was told in a newsgroup to use the cloning task, and I would not have to format the Maxtor. However, when I use that option, ATI changes my "J" external *destination* drive to "C", in the step where you verify your source and destination drives. Also I read later that "You have to remove the old hard drive after data moving is completed"... which makes me think this is not what I want to do. I don't want to transfer data to a new machine.

I want a complete system [full?] backup... stored on the Maxtor drive, which works with my existing hard drive. When I read the backup instructions, it asks to select a *file*, or create a new one for full backup; seeing the Acronis Secure Zone at that point, I quit... realizing I didn't know enough to continue. What am I missing?

Thanks for any advice that will clear up my confusion. [My Adobe Reader isn't working for half of the pages in the Users Guide.]

mm

[bVolk]

Hello msmisfit,

Cloning is not what you need now, you want to create a full image of your system drive. You do not need the Secure Zone.

First, create a Rescue CD with the TI Create Bootable Rescue Media tool, if you didn't already.

Then, to create the image, invoke Backup then Next.
Select The entire disk..., Next.
Select Disk 1, Next.
OK the Information popup.
Input a file name for the image file like D:\Image_C (if your external is D: ). Next.
Select Create new full backup archive, Next.
Select Use default options, Next.
Write some comments about the present state of your system if you like, Next.
Review the tasks info and if everything seems right, click Proceed.

When the image file is created, invoke Validate Backup Archive and select the just created image file (Image_C.tib). At the end Proceed again.

Then exit TI, insert the Rescue CD and reboot. Select Full. When in TI (running in Linux this time), invoke Validate Backup archive, find the Maxtor (it may have a different letter than in Windows), select the image file and Proceed to validate it again. Retrieve the CD and exit TI. The computer will reboot into Windows. (This step is required only to verify that the external drive is seen after booting from the Rescue CD.)

[bVolk]

A small additional clarification.

A full image of the entire disk means that the image is full (self-standing) as opposed to incremental/differential, which are appended to the full and depend on it for restore. The entire disk (the Disk 1 selection) means that all the partitions on the disk (as well as the Master Boot Record) are included in the image, as opposed to a partition image, when only one selected partition is imaged (ore more, but usually not all of them).

[Menorcaman]

Hello mm,

You might also want to have a look at this fully illustrated TI 9.0 Home tutorial at http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/company/inpress/2006/06-15-1ati.html (http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/company/inpress/2006/06-15-1ati.html).

Regards

[msmisfit]

Thanks for being so explicit, that's exactly what I needed. :) So, am I right to assume that I do NOT have to worry about what is ON the Maxtor drive NOW... the backup process will also overwrite what is there cleanly? Or should I format it?

And about the "running in Linux this time" comment, I'm not sure what that means, since I'm using WinXP. If I follow your instructions... is it something I need not worry about, though I do like to understand how ATI works?

Thanks again for being so helpful!

mm

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: " You might also want to have a look at this fully illustrated TI 9.0 Home tutorial at http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/company/inpress/2006/06-15-1ati.html (http://www.acronis.com/enterprise/company/inpress/2006/06-15-1ati.html).

Regards" }-

Thanks! I've bookmarked it; I am sure that will be helpful as I start using ATI. Right now it's kind of overwhelming, because it raises endless other questions. Obviously I'm one of those people who learns by *doing* [and learning the hard way some times]. ;) Appreciate the info, and will save the other questions until later.

mm

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "

And about the "running in Linux this time" comment, I'm not sure what that means, since I'm using WinXP. If I follow your instructions... is it something I need not worry about, though I do like to understand how ATI works? mm" }-

Greetings msmisfit,

TI uses its Linux mode to complete various operations, such as while restoring the Drive or Partition that your OS (Windows) resides on. Even though you may use TI running in Windows to set up and begin that operation, TI will reboot into its native mode to complete the operation. TI uses a small version of the Linux OS.

You can also access the Linux mode of TI directly, by loading your TI Boot Disc, and selecting Full Mode. This way, you can confirm, as bvolk suggests, that you can see and access all your hard drives, and optical drives, while running in the TI Linux mode. After reading your Boot CD, TI runs in what's known as memory-resident form -- using only your system RAM; nothing is written to your HDs to run TI Linux Boot Mode. Which makes it an ideal way to recover from a hard drive failure.

There is also a 3rd mode of TI, called Safe Mode, also accessed with the Boot Disc, which uses DOS, and your system's BIOS & drivers to access your hardware. Safe mode is much slower than Full Mode, and has limited support for devices such as USB hard drives.

-{ Quote: "So, am I right to assume that I do NOT have to worry about what is ON the Maxtor drive NOW... the backup process will also overwrite what is there cleanly? Or should I format it?" }-
Saving an Image to your external USB HD does not overwrite existing files on that drive, unlike cloning, so the backup software that came with your HD will still be there. If you want to erase all the data on the drive, you can format it. Most external HDs use FAT32, which is visible to most Operating Systems, and is the same File System TI uses in its Secure Zone. Some prefer NTFS - I use both.

A few cautions: Images stored on USB HDs are susceptible to errors from overheating, chipset errors, etc. I use an external USB HD, but only run it while I am creating or accessing data on it. So, just because an Image is there, and validates today, doesn't mean it will always be useable. Store your original files and non-replaceable data in their original formats -- by simply copying them to your other drives, or to optical media, etc. Images are great when they work...but are not fail-safe. If an Image becomes corrupt, you may not have access to its contents.

Your method of learning by trial & error is a good one, and there is much here to learn. You'll know the strengths and limitations of TI on your system, and be familiar with its functions should you ever need to restore from a crash. So, hang in there, this does get easier. If you aren't sure of something, check these forums, as most likely others have encountered similar challenges. And may point you in directions that are more rooted in the real world than in promising descriptions of features that may not work for you.

Regards

[bVolk]

-{ Quote: "
... Your method of learning by trial & error is a good one, and there is much here to learn. You'll know the strengths and limitations of TI on your system, and be familiar with its functions should you ever need to restore from a crash. So, hang in there, this does get easier. ...
" }-
I would agree on that view in connection with many programs, but I'm afraid True Image is not one of them. Penalties may come very high if one commits an error.

My advice would be to learn before trying.

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: "Greetings msmisfit,

(snipped perfect description) TI uses a small version of the Linux OS.

You can also access the Linux mode of TI directly, by loading your TI Boot Disc, and selecting Full Mode. This way, you can confirm, as bvolk suggests, that you can see and access all your hard drives, and optical drives, while running in the TI Linux mode. After reading your Boot CD, TI runs in what's known as memory-resident form -- using only your system RAM; nothing is written to your HDs to run TI Linux Boot Mode. Which makes it an ideal way to recover from a hard drive failure.
" }-

Thanks, this makes perfect sense to me. I've created the boot disk. Wish I was smart enough to use Linux for my O/S. :)

-{ Quote: "
Saving an Image to your external USB HD does not overwrite existing files on that drive, unlike cloning, so the backup software that came with your HD will still be there. If you want to erase all the data on the drive, you can format it. Most external HDs use FAT32, which is visible to most Operating Systems, and is the same File System TI uses in its Secure Zone. Some prefer NTFS - I use both. " }-

This is why I had not already formatted the drive, because I figured it would ask me what file system, or other questions I couldn't answer. Would it be OK to leave it "unallocated"? And what would that mean to the ATI software? I haven't formatted anything since floppies, and I'm sure it shows.

-{ Quote: "
A few cautions: Images stored on USB HDs are susceptible to errors from overheating, chipset errors, etc. I use an external USB HD, but only run it while I am creating or accessing data on it. So, just because an Image is there, and validates today, doesn't mean it will always be useable. " }-

Understood... I was upset to find out my external HD did not have an on/off switch as advertised.

-{ Quote: "
You'll know the strengths and limitations of TI on your system, and be familiar with its functions should you ever need to restore from a crash. So, hang in there, this does get easier. " }-

I can only hope! :) I really appreciate your excellent, detailed response. You should be a teacher, if you're not.

mm

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: "I would agree on that view in connection with many programs, but I'm afraid True Image is not one of them. Penalties may come very high if one commits an error.

My advice would be to learn before trying." }-

Not to worry... I am super cautious, because I have no one around to clear up my messes... but me. Therefore, I will be doing LOTS of reading here for some time to come. Thanks again, for your helpful reply, which I have printed out and will follow... when I get my questions about how to format the Maxtor drive for ATI usage answered. Sorry, I know most people would know how to do that. :-\

mm

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "I would agree on that view in connection with many programs, but I'm afraid True Image is not one of them. Penalties may come very high if one commits an error.

My advice would be to learn before trying." }-

I agree with you. The stakes are high. But, then, I learn best by a combination of research and application. So, I also purchased Disk Director with True Image, so that I could create test partitions, mess them up, and restore them. I thought that using OS Selector (a feature that comes with Disk Director) would also help, by enabling me to easily create dual boot environments. And was I surprised! Disappearing partitions, non-bootable system drive...the works. And I learned to protect my data, whether or not this program - or this user - does what they should.

So, yes, this is a tiger one gets by the tail, and, in spite of all the learning I've done, I can't say that I have it fully under control. More, that I've learned enough to not use OS Selector, or the Secure Zone, or Files & Folders restores to a new location from Boot Mode, or to expect USB drives to run on an otherwise functional mainstream motherboard, or, to rely on DVDs as archival options, or trust any program or hardware to save my bacon.

So, all in all, it's been a good learning process. Just don't read the manual and browse the tutorial and think, hey, this stuff all sound like just the ticket. It may or may not be a valid ticket when you get to the gate.

[bVolk]

Yes Christopher NC,

If you have the necessary experience to rely upon you can be bolder without being foolish.

[bVolk]

msmisfit,

If you received the Maxtor already assembled in the enclosure, it has been probably formatted already.

Could you try to copy a file from, say, My Documents onto the external HD using Windows Explorer? If the copied file shows up on the Maxtor, then it has been formatted and it's now in working order for storing the image files created with TI as well. They are just files that you can copy, move or delete with Explorer, although they carry all data recorded on the HD they represent the image of and tend to be therefore quite large.

If the copy test worked, right-click the Maxtor in My Computer and click Properties. Look at File system. If it is FAT32 and you don't plan to ever connect the external to a computer running an older version of Windows, you may want to reformat the drive into NTFS which is considered to be more advanced. In FAT32 the image files would be also automatically split into 4 GB chunks (the file size limit for FAT32).

So, if you decide to reformat (or the drive came non formatted at all) you do that by going Start, Programs, Administrative tools, Computer Management, Disk Management. Rigt-click on the Maxtor then click Format. Select NTFS and Default unit size. Do NOT check Quick format or Compression. OK and wait for the formatting to finish.

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "Thanks, this makes perfect sense to me. I've created the boot disk. Wish I was smart enough to use Linux for my O/S. :)" }-
As do I.

-{ Quote: "This is why I had not already formatted the drive, because I figured it would ask me what file system, or other questions I couldn't answer. Would it be OK to leave it "unallocated"? And what would that mean to the ATI software? I haven't formatted anything since floppies, and I'm sure it shows." }-
Well, formatting the drive is relatively easy. But first, let me explain that unallocated space refers to un-partitioned space on the hard drive. Since you already have at least some files on the ext USB HD (the included backup program, which may not be worth saving) there must be at least some portion of that drive which is formatted, and partitioned. Partitions can be visible or hidden, so, as with Dell computers, there can be a hidden partition with restore information that won't appear in Windows Disk Management, or be assigned a drive letter.

You can format your ext HD, or create partitions, using this same Windows Disk Management. Start/My Computer/ Right Click/ Manage/ Disk Management. Once you see your ext. HD, you should be able to view what it has now...eg: some or no partitions. You can Right click and Explore. Or view Properties. Then, if you select an unallocated space on that HD, you can Right Click again, and create a "New Partition". There is a lot to partitioning, so you may want to read up on it first, if you have never done this before. But, since this is also an open, new, ext HD that has no valuable data on it, you could just experiment, until you get what you want.

You'll need to create a logical partition, to hold data. You might first have to create a Primary Partition, if none exists, in which to place that logical partition. All rather easy to do. And, as bVolk points out, not something to experiment with on your system drive. If you don't know where the red artery goes, best back out, and hand the scalpel to someone else. If, when you view your HD in Disk Management, it reports free space, rather than unallocated space, that will be within an existing Primary partition, from which you can directly create a Logical Partition.

Really, it isn't so bad, unless this is the nerve center of your computer, and then, really, go slowly, or not at all, if you are unsure. Someone posted here recently with a cry for help after they overwrote their data partition when restoring an Image of their system partition. A definate no no. Like pulling across the yellow line while driving. Easy to do. Yet with very serious consequences. But, most of us still drive, so, let's continue.

FAT32 is the most commonly used File System. Most external HDs come formatted FAT32. TI uses FAT32 in its own Secure Zone. High end digital SLRs use FAT32. But, there are some who prefer using NTFS. I would suggest, in your case, to stick with FAT32. You aren't planning to do a lot with that external HD...but use it to make backups, right? Or store some data? Since I've run into trouble using TI to restore files to NTFS partitions, I'd say, that is not a proven answer, here. Either file system will work, for storing images and rarely accessed backup files. Windows XP can read and write to either. Windows98 and DOS need FAT32. Splitting TI Image files already happens in the Secure Zone, so, I wouldn't worry about that. TI can easily reassemble its own files from 4 GB pieces, as can every other program you'll use.

So, you'll simply have to decide how large a partition to create, which file system you want, and, in a few minutes, you can create a new logical partition. Windows, or TI, or Disk Director, may need to reboot, often several times, to complete some of these operations. This has to do with sychronizing with the operating system. I would suggest next checking the partition for errors, using Checkdisk, another Windows utility, available in Disk Management. A thorough scan locates and marks any bad sectors, so that they won't be used for files.

Hopefully, none of your archives will ever become corrupt. Here in the emergency room, we get a fairly warped view of the world of TI users. Those who are out there merrily using TI without incident rarely post to tell us how great things are on their system. But, Checkdsk can not repair any corrupt TI archives...in fact, it may only make them more unreadable. The first step, if you encounter a corrupt TI Image, is to Mount the Image. If you can mount it, you can recover your data by copying and pasting it, as you would normally, in Windows. You can only mount full Disk/Partition Images; Files & Folders archives cannot be accessed other than thru restoring, which I have encountered some problems using. Some reportedly corrupt Images are not corrupt. That's a flaw in the reporting, or reading process. Or, moving an Image from DVD to a hard drive may make it useable again. As I said, here in the emergency room...

After all this, you can run TI, to make an Image. Or, simply copy the files you want directly to a folder on your external HD. I will say here that using an Imaging program, any Imaging program, as the sole means of protecting original, non-replaceable data, is not sound practice.

If someone offered to make an exact digital copy of everything precious in your home or business, then shred it into millions of tiny pieces and place them all into a large steel shipping container in your basement, you may or may not think that was such a great idea. You might even ask, "How will you put everything back together again?" "No problem," says Containerizer, "I'll write the secret restoration code right here on the inside of the door, so, when I open your container, I'll know exactly where everything is, and the code will tell me how to reassemble every last bit. Don't you worry, I do this everyday."

Of course, if that door ever gets jammed, or the secret restoration code fades & becomes illegible, or your basement ever floods...you're stuck. With what? A shipping container full of useless data. Unrecognizable, it turns out, even to the data recovery pros.

Which is why I copy my digital photographs and other personal data, in their original file formats, to several internal and external hard drives, and make other copies to optical media. If my archives ever go bad, at least I'll still have whatever isn't faded, or missing, or corrupt. I'd rather risk losing a percentage of my data than the whole lot. Computers break. Images are sensitive and must be intact to restore, and almost intact even to mount. That said, Images and backup software are also a great convenience. Only you can decide how precious your data is, and how critical preserving your data is, to you. If anything is non-replaceable, even Acronis support suggests copying it directly, in non-proprietary file formats, to media that your OS and programs can read and access. If you doubt this, ask yourself what you would do if your critical data on your hard drive was lost, and the only backup you had was a .tib file that turned out couldn't be recovered?

-{ Quote: "Understood... I was upset to find out my external HD did not have an on/off switch as advertised." }-

Well, once the USB HD has done it's job, you can use Windows "Safely Remove Hardware" - an icon with a green arrow atop in your "System Tray" (down there by the clock) - to shut down your USB device. If you can figure out how to use that. Most of the time, it works fine, but will generally tell you if a program is accessing the drive, like Disk Management, or TI. Then, you could connect your USB HD to a power strip with a switch, and power it off once Safely Remove says it's OK to do. (Of course, that power strip, like everything else, had better be plugged into a fine surge protector, as had better be all the cables that connect to your PC).

-{ Quote: "I can only hope! :) I really appreciate your excellent, detailed response. You should be a teacher, if you're not.
mm" }- Thanks for your kind words. I have been a teacher, love to write, and enjoy problem solving. And, now that all my photographs are digital, I've been trying to figure out just how this whole backup process works. We may as well discuss this as we learn together. In a few weeks, or months, you'll be able to jump in here and "pay it forward."

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: "

Could you try to copy a file from, say, My Documents onto the external HD using Windows Explorer? If the copied file shows up on the Maxtor, then it has been formatted and it's now in working order for storing the image files created with TI as well.
If the copy test worked, right-click the Maxtor in My Computer and click Properties. Look at File system. " }-

I was using it 5 days/wk for backups of everything the Maxtor software called complete backups, and it is the NTFS file system. There is 5 GB used, of a 60 GB HD. [There is roughly 50 GB free, but I wanted to get rid of the data on there and start fresh.] Maxtor gave me errors about copying the Windows sytems files.

-{ Quote: "
So, if you decide to reformat (or the drive came non formatted at all) you do that by going Start, Programs, Administrative tools, Computer Management, Disk Management. Rigt-click on the Maxtor then click Format. Select NTFS and Default unit size. Do NOT check Quick format or Compression. OK and wait for the formatting to finish." }-

I just think it should be clean, don't you? However, I wouldn't know what a "default unit size" should be. So, selecting "default", I don't have to worry about it? My regular pc is only 80 GB, and I am only using 20 GB of that presently. [No photos, biggest personal files are music files and e-mails; and Windoze.] I'm sure I'll get hung up trying to format it. ;)

I think what I would like to do is, do a full backup monthly with weekly differentials between, and back up select folders on DVDs or CDs periodically. In case that helps determine how to advise me. :) Might do it more often, after I get the hang of it. I await your advice....

mm

[bVolk]

msmisfit,

"Default" (so stated!) is the first size offered as the Allocation unit size to select, but you could also select 4096 from the drop-down list or another size around mid-list. It's the size of the unit "parcels" the disk surface will be divided into. Nothing to do with the total size available to you on disk or partition, rather how effectively the space will be used by Windows. Give it a try to see how the dialog looks, you can still Cancel instead of OK-ing if you are unsure.

The strategy you propose seems good. It depends on your use of the computer, of course. I do only full images (for simple file management) at irregular intervals (before I make some change), twice a week in the mean.

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: "

"Default" (so stated!) is the first size offered as the Allocation unit size to select. It's the size of the unit "parcels" the disk surface will be divided into. Nothing to do with the total size available to you on disk or partition, rather how effectively the space will be used by Windows. " }-

Gotcha, thanks! I figured it was something I needed to know the basis of. :)

Disk Management shows my external drive "J", as "Primary" partition, Type "Basic", with Allocation unit size as 4096 and Volume label is "blank". I can't find anything that shows any [divided] partitions on this drive... just "free space".

If I format this drive to clean out the Maxtor software/data, is the above what I should re-set this drive to, or would you recommend partitions within the primary, for other backups?

BTW, I am still reading everywhere to get a grip on the semantics and basic stuff I need to know. TIA... to you and Christopher.

mm

[Christopher_NC]

Partitioning is really a personal choice. For my uses, I'd rather have several smaller partitions, than one large one.

If you use TI to make full partition Images, then you will be able to save and restore Images to that drive.

I also like having a partition for tests, so that, while I'm trying out any unfamiliar operation, I won't be doing that on a partition that contains important data.

Regards

[bVolk]

I agree with Christopher as far as main drives are concerned.

But if you will keep the Maxtor for (large) image files only, as I do, two partitions will only mean two places to manage for space instead of one, a less effective use of total disk space and more file fragmentation.

[msmisfit]

Just noticed my ATI 9.0 is version 2,323, should I register and update to 3677 [or whatever is the latest], before attempting anything?

I'm still looking for the definition of a "logical" partition, for my future reference. :) TIA...

mm

[bVolk]

The current build is #3677, yes, and you certainly should update because important improvements have been introduced since build 2323. You should uninstall the latter before installing 3677 and then create a new Rescue CD from the new build.

The Acronis Disk Director Suite User's Guide, that you can download, may make interesting reading.

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "
I'm still looking for the definition of a "logical" partition, for my future reference. :) TIA...

mm" }-

Here's what Wikipedia has to say about disk partitioning:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disk_partition

-{ Quote: "Types of partitions

Primary

A primary partition contains one file system. In MS-DOS and earlier versions of Microsoft Windows systems, the first partition ( C: ) must be a primary partition. Other operating systems may not share this limitation; however, this can depend on other factors, such as a PC's BIOS.


Extended

An extended partition is able to contain several file systems, known as logical disks (though the terminology may vary slightly with operating systems).
" }-



And, NTFS.org: http://www.ntfs.com/logdrives.htm

-{ Quote: "Logical Drives and Extended Partitions

When more than four logical disks are required on a single physical disk, the first partition should be a primary partition. The second partition can be created as an extended partition, which can contain all the remaining unpartitioned space on the disk. " }-

And, The Elder Geek on Windows XP, here discussing One Partition or Multiple Partitions? (http://www.theeldergeek.com/hard_drives_02.htm)

-{ Quote: "One Partition or Multiple Partitions?

It's certainly possible to run XP on a hard drive that has one partition. Obviously it's a configuration that works because the majority of vendor supplied systems ship with a single partition that occupies the entire hard drive. Just because the single partition is the most common it doesn't mean it's the best choice. A lot of users simply don't want to go to the trouble of repartitioning their hard drive. It's true that it's not the most pleasant task to do but there really are some good reasons for using a more advanced partitioning scheme." }-

The Elder Geek on Windows XP (http://www.theeldergeek.com/index.htm) also has an excellent description of how to create partitions while installing XP.

.

[msmisfit]

Thanks gents for your responses, and hanging in with me. Apparently, this is another time my impatience and frustration [with myself], has made matters worse. :-[

I decided to register and update... before I got any responses today, and see that nothing changed... because I did not uninstall the older version. Now I cannot download the 3677 build again, because "My Account" does not show anything available to download any longer. [That I can find.]

I'm beginning to think I should put the ATI software back on the shelf, and restore the Maxtor software to do what it will do [automatically], and forget about copying my *system* files. This may just be beyond my capacity to deal with. I'm having too many frustrations with Mozilla and certain web sites, I don't need to add another one to the list [in case that has something to do with why my registration wasn't remembered].

Will it be the nightmare I expect now, just to get to a starting place with the latest software? Or am I too pessimistic? Once again... TIA.

mm

P.S. - I found an older thread that told me how to find the *sign in* block, and I tried that just now, and the 3677 build IS shown [accessing that way]. So, if I uninstall 2323 tomorrow and something goes wrong, am I going to be able to download 3677 as many times as I need to, get it working?

[Christopher_NC]

I understand your frustration. Trouble is, this is just the sort of situation Imaging software, once wrestled into functionality on your own PC, is so useful to have. These sorts of software and hardware woes, unfortunately, are likely to continue, with or without Acronis True Image to help you get back up and running in minutes, rather than hours, or days.

About the only "computer" I ever used that didn't have problems was about 25 years ago, when the "PC" I carried around as a residential energy conservation auditor was really not a PC at all, but simply a terminal with a modem and built-in thermal printer. We let the DEC mainframe do all the computing for us. Come to think of it, even in those "good old days" the mainframe went down from time to time. And for much longer than most of us put up with today, thanks to imaging software and backup strategies that work.

So, if you are willing, hang in there. You can bet that many of us wouldn't be sticking around if this program wasn't worth the effort. ;)

Next time you download a program, save it on your hard drive, and, even burn a CD, so you'll have it if you need to reinstall.

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "So, if I uninstall 2323 tomorrow and something goes wrong, am I going to be able to download 3677 as many times as I need to, get it working?" }-Hi msmisfit,

Yes you can but as Christopher said, why not save the download to your hard drive instead? It's much more convenient than having to download it each time.

Regards

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: " Yes you can but as Christopher said, why not save the download to your hard drive instead? It's much more convenient than having to download it each time. " }-

LOL... I always tend to expect the *worst*. :) I do have it in my downloaded programs folder, but I was wondering what would happen, if that wasn't accessible.

Thanks to you, and Christopher and bVolk, I may have the courage to proceed now.

I too, remember dumb terminals, and even mainframes and keypunch cards, but didn't want to give my age away previously, afraid people would ignore me as a hopeless cause. :)

mm

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "
I too, remember dumb terminals, and even mainframes and keypunch cards, but didn't want to give my age away previously, afraid people would ignore me as a hopeless cause. :)

mm" }-

Hopeless cause? Hardly.

While reading recently about Vista's implementation of Imaging, I noticed that the number of PC users who make backups of any kind is in the low single digits.

You are one of the many of us in this forum who have used computers long enough to know that they don't last forever. Count your blessings. ;)

[msmisfit]

-{ Quote: "A small additional clarification.

A full image of the entire disk means that the image is full (self-standing) as opposed to incremental/differential, which are appended to the full and depend on it for restore. The entire disk (the Disk 1 selection) means that all the partitions on the disk (as well as the Master Boot Record) are included in the image, as opposed to a partition image, when only one selected partition is imaged (or more, but usually not all of them)." }-

I forgot to ask about the several messages referencing "Disk 1". On my system "C" Drive is shown on "Disk 0". Or was "Disk 1" just a reference by the ATI program as the "first" selection... or will the correct disk number be shown when I go through the process? Sorry to be such a worry-wart.

mm

[bVolk]

In Windows (Disk Management) the first disk (the system disk) is reported as Disk 0, while in TI it's reported as Disk 1. On imaging or restoring in TI, checking the box in front of Disk 1 will instruct TI to image (or restore) the entire disk, ie. all the partitions (as well as the MBR, in the case of restoring). By unchecking Disk 1, but checking one (or more) of the partitions beneath, you perform a partition(s) image/restore.

The other peculiarity to be aware of is that after booting from Rescue CD and upon selecting the image to validate or restore from the list of drives displayed on the left pane of the screen, the letters of the drives may be different from the letters you are accustomed to see in Windows. Therefore, it's a good idea to assign a meaningful name to each drive, like "System", Backups" and "External", to be able to tell which drive is which without relying on their letters. You can rename a drive by right-clicking on it in My Computer, then Rename.

My "additional clarification" was meant for you to distinguish between a full image (as a type of image) and an entire (or whole) disk image (as regarding the contents of the image). But you are probably past that confusion already. ;D

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "I forgot to ask about the several messages referencing "Disk 1". On my system "C" Drive is shown on "Disk 0". Or was "Disk 1" just a reference by the ATI program as the "first" selection... or will the correct disk number be shown when I go through the process? Sorry to be such a worry-wart.

mm" }-

Naming conventions can get quite interesting around here, perhaps due to TI's use of both Windows and Linux. Disk 0 and Disk 1 refer to where your HDs are connected to your motherboard, or HD controller. Disk 1 in True Image generally means the Hard Drive you are Booting from, or your System Drive. I have 3 identical Samsung SATA HDs, which makes figuring out which HD I'm looking at challenging, even in BIOS. Don't be surprised if TI reports your SATA HDs as SCSI (a Linux translation).

You'll also find that drive letters in Boot mode are different from their normal drive letters in Windows. So, be sure to use descriptive names for each partition you create, for example Acronis Archives ( J: ), rather than simply, ( J: ). In Boot Mode, J: may become H:, and you'll need to know which partition you want to restore to, and where to find your TI archives. You can always load the Boot disc, and noodle around, to see what is where. I write down a chart of my drives in Windows, and in Boot Mode.

You can also set up a Restore Operation, without actually committing to running it. You have the option to Cancel any pending Acronis Operation. Just stay clear of Snap Restore :ouch: A safe process in Boot Mode while learning your way around is to Validate archives.

As bVolk said so well in post #8,-{ Quote: "Penalties may come very high if one commits an error.

My advice would be to learn before trying." }-

So, you are taking the smart path here. I've had a new motherboard and CPU here for several days, and am almost prepared enough to do the upgrade. And I've done this before...

We're all learning...at least us wise old coots are! 8);)

[bVolk]

Why not, I would be happy to learn on your machine ... ;D

[bVolk]

Oh, by the way Christopher, Merry Christmas if we don't meet by then. ;D

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "Why not, I would be happy to learn on your machine ... ;D" }-

Ah, yes, I overlooked that detail. How easy it is to work on someone else's anything, yet, when it comes to our own anythings, we want things done just so. I'll bet you don't live close to North Carolina, so, for now at least, you're safe. Though, come to think of it, I would have someone else to blame if things went awry ::)

Hey, what am I worried about? I have True Image! What could go wrong? :wacko:

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "So, you are taking the smart path here. I've had a new motherboard and CPU here for several days, and am almost prepared enough to do the upgrade. And I've done this before...

We're all learning...at least us wise old coots are! 8);)" }-Hi Christopher,

I'm currently typing this on my 8th "home-built" PC so you're quite welcome to bring your kit (and your TI disk image) over to Menorca and I'll upgrade it for you. Just make sure you have a full retail version of the Windows XP installation disk or have purchased a new OEM version to go with that new motherboard ;) ;D.

Regards from one "Silver Surfer" to another.

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "Hi Christopher,

I'm currently typing this on my 8th "home-built" PC so you're quite welcome to bring your kit (and your TI disk image) over to Menorca and I'll upgrade it for you. Just make sure you have a full retail version of the Windows XP installation disk or have purchased a new OEM version to go with that new motherboard ;) ;D.

Regards from one "Silver Surfer" to another." }-

Hello Menorcaman,

Thanks for your generous offer. There are days when any excuse to visit Menorca sounds good enough. From the photographs I've seen, you've picked a grand place to roost.

It didn't take long for me to lose patience with factory restore discs, when I tried out a laptop that came with such rubbish. Restoring all those commercials to my desktop, while eliminating all my custom settings!.. :wacko: So, yes, I still have the full versions of just about every Windows version ever released. Anyone need a full set of 3.1 floppies? I even waited in line at midnight to get Windows 95, and for my troubles, Mr. Gates even tossed in a remote controlled toy car, with Microsoft ads all over it. The neighbor's twins didn't mind ;) I have an OEM XP Pro SP2 CD, and am fully liscensed to drive it anywhere this computer will take me.

My main debate has been whether to transfer over my existing, 3 month old setup, by downgrading the drivers during the changeover, or, to go thru the many hours of work to re-install everything. I think I'm going to try the less labor intensive method first. I can always start fresh if things don't go as planned. I'm simply changing out the motherboard and CPU (Athlon 1800+ to Athlon 64 3400+). Hoping to resolve those pesky chipset problems I've had, and find out just how good it feels to have a smoothly running and reasonably fast system. Nothing bleeding edge, but, hey, I've already tried that.

Regards

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "I have an OEM XP Pro SP2 CD, and am fully liscensed to drive it anywhere this computer will take me." }-Well there's the rub Christopher. I'm not sure that you will be allowed to re-activate that OEM copy of XP Pro once you swap out the motherboard and CPU. You'll need the full "Retail Version" of the installation disk instead otherwise Mr Gates and Co. will probably refuse to play ball (at least that's the case for Windows XP Home).

Regards

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "Well there's the rub Christopher. I'm not sure that you will be allowed to re-activate that OEM copy of XP Pro once you swap out the motherboard and CPU. You'll need the full "Retail Version" of the installation disk instead otherwise Mr Gates and Co. will probably refuse to play ball (at least that's the case for Windows XP Home).

Regards" }-

Thanks for the reminder...yes, I do have an OEM version of XP, which is tied by that virtual umbilical cord to this one computer. However, I've also looked into Windows activation, which, as I understand it, uses a point system, which looks at the various components in your system and assigns them each a value, then, after the rebuild, totals it up and gives a pass or fail. Even leaving a PCI modem card that is no longer used can tip the scales in favor of passing. Of course, CPUs and mainboards do get higher points assigned to them. But, it's the cumulative total that counts.

So, with luck, I'll bring enough of my "old" hardware to the party to get past the burly bouncer at the door. I'll leave in place the older DVD drive, CDRW burner, as well as the SATA DVD+R (once activated, you can then pull the old hardware). And leave the three internal SATA HDs, same AGP video card, same RAM, even a controller card or two. And that trusty modem (I'm just guessing, but modems must indicate that this guy can't be a pirate, he's still in the dark ages of dial-up). Just to make Windows Activation monitor feel right at home. Otherwise, I may have to call Microsoft, and plead with them to allow me to run my fully liscensed version of WindowsXP. Which I expect they will do quite gladly, and, in any case, will do. I've been on tours at Microsoft, and, while they are a lot of things, I don't think they are really intent on keeping legitimate users of their software from upgrading their PCs. As to allowing us to use anyone else's software, that's another story...

Regards

[Menorcaman]

Depending on what features are built into the new motherboard, you may well be lucky and find that your OEM Windows XP doesn't require re-activation. However, if it does then, as you say, a telephone call to Microsoft Support explaining the situation will likely result in a new activation code.

For anyone reading this thread and wanting a better insight into Windows Product Activation, this lengthy article titled <How Microsoft Windows XP Product Activation (WPA) Works> (http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/ProductActivation.htm) provides a lot of useful (but not too technical) information.

Regards

[Brian K]

Christopher,

I'd be concerned about which type of Motherboard you are planning to buy. This is from Menorcaman's link.



-{ Quote: "In the other type of OEM licence, Windows XP is pre-installed by a major computer manufacturer, such as Dell. In this case, instead of activation, the system is locked to the make and version of the BIOS on the motherboard. Every time the system is booted, Windows checks to make sure that the BIOS is the same. As long as that is the case, the rest of the hardware components can be changed. However, if the motherboard is replaced, it must be with one that has been supplied by the original PC manufacturer.

If a BIOS-locked copy of Windows XP is installed on a motherboard and the BIOS lock fails, the system will go through the normal Product Activation process at startup. However, note well that from March 1, 2005, the Product Key supplied on a label by the computer manufacturer, and used for the initial installation, won't be accepted for activation. A new copy of Windows XP, with a licence allowing installation on a different computer, will be needed. This means that any replacement motherboard, or upgrade to its BIOS, must be supplied by the original manufacturer in order to ensure that the BIOS lock is put into effect." }-

[Christopher_NC]

-{ Quote: "Depending on what features are built into the new motherboard, you may well be lucky and find that your OEM Windows XP doesn't require re-activation. However, if it does then, as you say, a telephone call to Microsoft Support explaining the situation will likely result in a new activation code.

For anyone reading this thread and wanting a better insight into Windows Product Activation, this lengthy article titled <How Microsoft Windows XP Product Activation (WPA) Works> (http://www.pcbuyerbeware.co.uk/ProductActivation.htm) provides a lot of useful (but not too technical) information.

Regards" }-

Menorcaman, Brian & bVolk,

Help!!! Some guys from Redmond broke down my door last night, muttered something about OEM trash, then tied me up and threw me in the back of their van! I think it has Washington plates on it. I'm text messaging you on my cell...must keep quiet...been driving all night...could you guys please do me a favor? Can you check out this product key: 78967-OEM-8976543-98765, and see if there's any way to get me out of this mess? These guys really look mean...am I history? :lurking:

Well, all seriousness aside, I do appreciate both of your concern for my welfare. Turns out, the product key on my WindowsXP CD does not include the letters "OEM", unlike the key above, from the article on Windows Activation. So, I should be OK to proceed with my upgrade.

We purchased this computer in somewhat of a hurry - my wife had just begun graduate school and needed XP Pro to log into the university. So, we went with a smaller PC builder in California, Micro Express, who was highly rated in PC World, and did a decent job by us, all in all. Micro Express is not one of the big PC makers, so even though Windows XP Pro came with this system, I don't think it's an OEM version. Per your link, unless the product key says OEM, which mine does not, I should be OK.

Last fall, when our original socket A motherboard developed leaking capacitors, I asked Micro Express to give me a new one. They offered to repair mine, if I would send it to them and wait 6 weeks...so, I opted instead to pay them for a new Gigabyte GA-7N400S-L nForce2 motherboard...a good one, from the reviews I found at the time. Not as good as Menorcaman's Pro level Gigabyte GA-7N400 Pro2, but, I didn't know this last fall. The helpful Micro Express rep even sent along an XP SP2 CD, so I wouldn't have to upgrade to SP2 again. Using my product activation key, my upgrade last fall went smoothly.

As long as I was rebuilding this PC (now that I had inherited it from my wife) I added a few bits and pieces. A nice PC Power & Cooling 470 power supply, a 250 GB Samsung Spinpoint P SATA HD, an MSI FX5500 256MB AGP video card, and doubled the DDR RAM to 1 GB. Six months later, I added a Plextor SATA DVD burner, to store all those precious digital photographs.

In May, I decided it was time to develop some decent backup habits. I'd used Partition Magic on my Win98SE Ultra Wide SCSI system for years, but, didn't have a partitioning program for this XP machine. So, I went for the combo - True Image & Disk Director. Highly rated, I was told. And, in spite of the rather steep learning curve on my system, I'm glad I came. Turns out, Menorcaman and Brian were two of the generous TI forum members who helped me thru those early stages, when I came in crying, "No Hard Drives Found!" and are still helping me...when do we get to the easy part? ;) Suffice it to say, I learned a great deal in a short time, and found out that even a Gigabyte GA-7N400S-L wasn't up to the challenges of saving Images, or other large files, to and from SATA HDs, or external USB hard drives.

Being stubborn, and with all your help, I almost have this system running well, almost...All the while, my wife, Jodie, has been patiently saying, I think it's the motherboard. Hey, I just replaced the motherboard...and it was supposed to be a good one...there must be a way to coax an nForce 2 chipset into behaving. And I didn't want to have to buy a new video card or new memory...few motherboards take AGP nowadays...

Gigabyte support makes Acronis support look great...all Gigabyte offered me was a rebuilt motherboard of the same faulty design, if I'd send them my board and wait 6 weeks...so trying to wrestle this board into behaving, I eventually added two Adaptec PCI controller cards...one for an external USB HD, and the other to run 2 of my now 4 internal SATA devices. Having used SCSI for years, I naively thought when I bought this SATA motherboard that SATA would allow additional drives to connect in a chain like SCSI had...here I'm showing my ignorance...oh, well, we all start somewhere.

So, I've finally listened to Jodie...I recently found that Newegg is selling an AMD Athlon 64 3400+ with a Biostar NF325-A7 Mainboard as a combo for only $100 US. And the Biostar takes AGP and my DDR RAM. Add in an Arctic Freezer cooler, another case fan, and I should be all set for awhile...this board and CPU will even run Vista, if I get really brave, or foolish, and I tend to be both. Of course, we'll see how well this NVIDIA nForce 3 chipset does at running SATA, and ext USB, and how well Acronis does at running the show.

At least I don't need the three of you to testify on my behalf in Redmond, Washington, not yet...Thanks again for your continued help. I'll let you know how it goes...

Regards