Legal way to use Real and QT codecs without using the regular players?

[Devinco]

Is it possible to legally use just the Real and QT codecs (from Real and Apple) without using their players?
I would like to use my choice of player.
Where or how would I get just the codec legally?

If that is not possible, can I install the player with codecs and then uninstall everything except the codecs legally? What is the best way to do this?

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "If that is not possible, can I install the player with codecs and then uninstall everything except the codecs legally? What is the best way to do this?" }-
This would be the only 100% legal way, but i don't know if there are different funcions/dll's enabled in the freeware or bought version of RealPlayer. Quicktime Alternative had in the past the registered functions enabled. I don't know how it is today. Never used this dll's.

Some links:
Real Network Lisence (http://www.ncns.com/RealNetworksLicense.html)

Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_Alternative)
-{ Quote: "Also IMHO Real Alternative is unable to play all RealMedia files such as RealVideo 10 and RealAudio 5.0 " }-

It's all kind of strange as f.e. MPlayer also is able to play real streams.

But anyway, the whole world is using this files, so......... :)

[Devinco]

Thanks Tommy.

Knowing them, they probably glue the whole thing together in one big advertising blob. ::)

They say so in the EULA:

-{ Quote: "b) The Software may include certain plug-in components ("Plug-Ins"), including the ActiveX Control, Java plug-in, and RA XTRA plug-in. You may only call to or otherwise use such Plug-Ins through the use of the realplay, rcansplg.so.6.0, rpnp.so, rpnphelper, rcaembed.so.6.0, rcacore.so.6.0, realplay.exe, nppl3260.dll, rmoc3260.dll, embd3260.dll, rpcl3260.zip, tpasdk.dll, teasdk.dll, tsystray.exe, teamp3.dll, tsasdk.dll, security.dll, or tpdmgr.dll applications. Any direct use of Plug-Ins through a non-RN proprietary application, including a custom or user-written application is prohibited by this Agreement." }-
This leaves a lot of questions. Does anyone have some answers to the following questions?
The plugin is the part that allows you to play the real media in the browser, but the codec does actual compression/decompression of the video stream.
The real plugin is a separate component from the real codec, is that correct?
I assume you need both to play media inside the browser?
Can you play Real Media inside the browser with just the plugin and codec but no player at all?
What about outside the browser with a different media player? You wouldn't need to use their plugin, just the codec. And according to their EULA, that would be legal. Perhaps one could set the download behavior for real media to open with a different media player.
Does Real Aternative use Real's Plugin and/or codec?
Or did they create their own?

I was hoping that there would be some clean way to get rid of everything but the Real/QT codecs and plugins (if it would work).
Maybe Total Uninstaller or something similar that might allow selective uninstalls of an application? Even a tedious manual uninstall would be good.

Is there a way to do this so one could still achieve the goal (legally play streaming media within the browser without their player)? Or even outside the browser?

I really don't want to use their players even if they are quick and timely.
Is this impossible?

[iceni60]

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/446/

https://addons.mozilla.org/firefox/446/previews/

[Devinco]

Thanks Iceni.
This looks very promising. Playing a video in a separate player (rather than within the browser) is not a problem. No Real Plugin would be used, so no EULA issue, only the codec and/or a player that natively and legally supports it (MPlayer?).

Tommy mentioned MPlayer is able to play Real Media Streams. Is it able to do this without installing the Real Player Codecs? Legally?

What is the best way to uninstall the Real Player (and QuickTime) and still keep the codecs?

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "Tommy mentioned MPlayer is able to play Real Media Streams. Is it able to do this without installing the Real Player Codecs? Legally?" }-
I think mplayer is using the dll files and not the ax codec files from real as they are not open source. I am not sure.

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "I think mplayer is using the dll files and not the ax codec files from real as they are not open source. I am not sure." }-
Sorry, I still don't understand.
The dll(dynamic Link Library) files contain the Real codecs?
You don't need the codecs to play Real Media?
These dll files come from Real?
If this is true then MPlayer is distributing the codecs (or dll) illegally?

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "Sorry, I still don't understand.
The dll(dynamic Link Library) files contain the Real codecs?
You don't need the codecs to play Real Media?
These dll files come from Real?
If this is true then MPlayer is distributing the codecs (or dll) illegally?" }-
To tell you the truth its also for me very confusing. Legal or not legal, everybody is using it, big pages offer them, others not. I don't know what to think about all this. Real Network nether iniciatet anything against Real-Alternative, and so on. ???

[PaulBB]

- Get MPUI (http://mpui.sourceforge.net/)
- Read some info about the codecs (http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/design7/codecs.html)
- Download the full codec pack from here (http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/MPlayer/releases/codecs/) (windows-all-20060611.zip)
- Unpack the codecs archives and put the contents in a directory where MPlayer will find them.
- That's all now you can watch Real, QuickTime, XVID etc...totally legal and free with open-source software.

*if you are lazy then try rulesPlayer (http://www.dsource.org/projects/rulesplayer); will download and install everything automatically; since is still a beta rulesPlayer is not working with internet streams.

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/5204/rulesplayerpe5.png

http://img181.imageshack.us/img181/2619/mpuitg7.png

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "
- That's all now you can watch Real, QuickTime, XVID etc...totally legal and free with open-source software.
" }-
Since when are Real and Apple Quicktime codex/dll open source?

[PaulBB]

-{ Quote: "Since when are Real and Apple Quicktime codex/dll open source?" }-

Since MPLAYER is free and open source media player distributed under the GNU General Public License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPlayer)

:)

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "Since MPLAYER is free and open source media player distributed under the GNU General Public License (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPlayer):)" }-
You are right and in the same time wrong.
Mplayer is open source and uses open source codex like XVId, ffmpeg, libcodec, etc. BUT quicktime and realtime codecs, which also are needed by mplayer to view these movies, are 100% not open source and _copyrightet_.

That's why we are discussing here. :wacko:

[WSFuser]

do those real/quicktime codecs come with mplayer or do they have to be installed separately?

[PaulBB]

-{ Quote: "do those real/quicktime codecs come with mplayer or do they have to be installed separately?" }-

http://www1.mplayerhq.hu/design7/codecs.html

[WSFuser]

ill take that answer as separate.

[Tommy]

Ok, once and for all!
All so called codec pakages as Quicktime Alternative, Real Alternative, etc. or the addidonal codecs which are offered by mPlayer are illegal if they include copyrightet codecs or codec dll files. That's fact. They are _ILLEGAL_ distributions. Have a look at the EULA of the owner of this codecs. See post above regarding Real.

If you take it for 100%, even the replacements of some codecs in libavcodec are not 100% real free.
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/legal.html

But in case of Realplayer as there is a freeware version, you can argue that this freeware has been installed before. Thats it. So as everybody in the world just u... <sniped before a moderator appears> :)

[WSFuser]

well Devinco, youre faced with two choices: use the legal Real/QT players or dont use them at all.

I prefer the third choice but to each their own :)

[ronjor]

-{ Quote: "Quicktime Alternative, Real Alternative, etc. or the addidonal codecs which are offered by mPlayer are illegal if they include copyrightet codecs or codec dll files." }-
You are correct Tommy.

[Devinco]

PaulBB,
Thanks for the info.
I like MPlayer and will use it more in the future (especially in Linux).
I only briefly tried MPUI. I had an A/V sync problem on one of the media files I tried, but other than that it worked fine. It is certainly one of the most comprehensive players out there and definately worth playing with more.

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "Ok, once and for all!
All so called codec pakages as Quicktime Alternative, Real Alternative, etc. or the addidonal codecs which are offered by mPlayer are illegal if they include copyrightet codecs or codec dll files. That's fact. They are _ILLEGAL_ distributions. Have a look at the EULA of the owner of this codecs. See post above regarding Real.

If you take it for 100%, even the replacements of some codecs in libavcodec are not 100% real free.
http://ffmpeg.mplayerhq.hu/legal.html

But in case of Realplayer as there is a freeware version, you can argue that this freeware has been installed before. Thats it. So as everybody in the world just u... <sniped before a moderator appears> :)" }-
Tommy,
Once you go beyond the surface layer of a codec discussion, it quickly becomes very technical. Thanks for cutting through all of it. I owe you a nice Cuban cigar!........D'oh!!........That's illegal too! ;D

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "I like MPlayer and will use it more in the future (especially in Linux). I only briefly tried MPUI. " }-
Mplayer is one if not the best player for Win32 portet from Linux. I use it exclusiv on my Laptop. Low in resources and well playing. Everything i trough on it, it played.

-{ Quote: "Once you go beyond the surface layer of a codec discussion, it quickly becomes very technical. Thanks for cutting through all of it. I owe you a nice Cuban cigar!........D'oh!!........That's illegal too!" }-
If you are interestet in these kind of stuff visit Doom's and Hydrogen Audio Forum.
Havana's...ok...ups....again forbidden..****:dry:

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "well Devinco, youre faced with two choices: use the legal Real/QT players or dont use them at all.

I prefer the third choice but to each their own :)" }-
Thanks WSFuser.

LOL. You know it serves me right for wanting to do things the right way. :)

Here one wants to just play a video.
Real delivers a lousy player with all kinds of ad-filled extras (some call it adware and spyware). It's all legal because you agreed to it in the EULA. But using an alternative player that happens to include the codec distributed from somewhere other than Real is illegal.

Apple always appeared to me as less aggressive than Real.

I like the third option too, but there might be a fourth option if it would work...

Install the Real Player and QuickTime Players which contain the codecs (dlls) needed. Completely and totally uninstall every last part of the Real and QT players EXCEPT the codecs needed to work with the alternative players.
This would be legal because the codecs are distributed directly from Real and Apple and since the alternative player would not be using the Real web browser plugin, it would not be breaking the terms of the EULA.

The questions with this fourth way are:
Which dll (or other) files and registry settings do you need to keep?
What is the best way to do such a selective uninstall?
Most importantly, would the alternative players be able to work with the dlls by themselves?

[Tommy]

Your fourth posibility will only work with player like Media Player Classic etc. which use windows ax codecs, not with player like mPlayer, VLC, etc. which bring there own codecs. They don't access the Win32 ax codecs.

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "Your fourth posibility will only work with player like Media Player Classic etc. which use windows ax codecs, not with player like mPlayer, VLC, etc. which bring there own codecs. They don't access the Win32 ax codecs." }-
Thanks Tommy.
I like Media Player Classic, it works well.
So I would keep the Real/QT Win32 ax codecs from the Real/QT Player installs.

This page has some info and links to utils related to identifying these filter files:
http://www.free-codecs.com/guides/How_to_install_uninstall_DLL_and_AX_files.htm

One could install Real Player and QT Players and use the utilities to identify the dll or ax filters/codecs installed.
Then copy the files to a safe location and uninstall Real and Quicktime.
Hopefully the uninstallers remove everything.
Then copy the codecs back to the system32 folder and run regsvr to reinstall them.

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "One could install Real Player and QT Players and use the utilities to identify the dll or ax filters/codecs installed.
Then copy the files to a safe location and uninstall Real and Quicktime.
Hopefully the uninstallers remove everything.
Then copy the codecs back to the system32 folder and run regsvr to reinstall them." }-
Not so easy, after the deinstall an recopy of the codecs you have to register those again into your registry. But....
LOL, thats the same as you install Quicktime or Real alternative. This packages install the exact same files to the exact same directory, with the same configuration as the legal programs, only without the whole main player and adaware stuff. Also you see the original configuration GUI of Quicktime an Real later in your system control panel :) So, choose the third solution as @WSFuser said, or not said :)

[WSFuser]

in other words, using QT/Real Alternative would be faster and you would do less work ;D

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "in other words, using QT/Real Alternative would be faster and you would do less work ;D" }-
So if that's the final solution why the hell have we been discussing this matter for 3 long days. LOL ROFL ;D

[WSFuser]

this is what devinco asked
-{ Quote: "If that is not possible, can I install the player with codecs and then uninstall everything except the codecs legally?" }-
and this was your response
-{ Quote: "This would be the only 100% legal way, but i don't know if there are different funcions/dll's enabled in the freeware or bought version of RealPlayer. Quicktime Alternative had in the past the registered functions enabled. I don't know how it is today. Never used this dll's." }-
so is it legal to install the player but keep/reregister the needed codecs? or do both the codecs and player have to be installed?

[Devinco]

It's all your fault Tommy.
You had to go and tell the truth!
Just a simple lie and it would have all been done long ago. ;D

-{ Quote: "LOL, thats the same as you install Quicktime or Real alternative. This packages install the exact same files to the exact same directory, with the same configuration as the legal programs, only without the whole main player and adaware stuff. Also you see the original configuration GUI of Quicktime an Real later in your system control panel" }-
It's almost the same, but because it came from the source, it is legal?

Just to make matters worse (or better...who knows anymore?), I just read this thread at doom9.org:
RealPlayer 10.5, installation, performance, etc. (http://forum.doom9.org/showthread.php?t=68399)
The thread is old (2004) and long, but is relevant.
RealPlayer Basic 10.5 (free) is the current version available from Real and the moderator appears to be involved with the development team.
The gist of the thread is that this new RealPlayer is not evil like the old ones.
I know I have avoided them like the plague because of past bad experiences with them. It seems the codecs work well with MPC also. It's worth a read for those interested in this topic.

[Tommy]

-{ Quote: "so is it legal to install the player but keep/reregister the needed codecs? or do both the codecs and player have to be installed?" }-
If we go on this way i will call this guy from 'Blind Justice'. Thats the name of the show in which Captain Kirk plays the attorney? :)

-{ Quote: " It's all your fault Tommy.
You had to go and tell the truth!
Just a simple lie and it would have all been done long ago." }-
I will lie as hell next time, if you send me some legal Cuban cigars.

[Devinco]

I think it would be legal.
What they really care about is if the people distributing it or incorporating it are making any money with it. I think that's why there has been no legal action yet, no money in it. It would be even more pointless to go after end users who are just trying to play a video.
I will try it out and report how it works out.
Thanks for all the help guys! :)

-{ Quote: "I will lie as hell next time, if you send me some legal Cuban cigars." }-;D Okay, this guy I know says no problem...he also says he can sell me a very nice bridge in Brooklyn.

P.S. Blind Justice is the show with a blind police detective. :thumbd:
Boston Legal is the show with William Shatner (Captain Kirk) and David Spader. :thumb: