FDISR & IFD Test

[dallen]

There seems to be a lot of discussion in this forum about how FDISR works and what happens when FDISR is used with imaging software. One question that comes up from time to time is, "Should I disable the pre-boot screen when taking an image?" (General consensus is YES, it cannot hurt).

I decided, under the advice of my good friend Peter2150 to run a test. The test went as follows:

TEST 1

Fresh installation of Windows XP Pro, not from image, but rather the old fashioned hard way.

Update and patch windows.

Install FDISR (most updated version), but do not create secondary snapshot.

Use Image for DOS to create and verify image onto external drive via USB 2.0 [pre-boot was enabled during the creation of the image].

Restored the image from Image for DOS.

During the initial reboot after restoration, the pre-boot screen was present.

Rebooted one more time to ensure that the pre-boot screen remained and it did.

Created a secondary snapshot using FDISR.

Booted to secondary snapshot to verify that it functioned normally and it did.

Booted back into the primary snapshot.

TEST 2

Disabled the Pre-boot

Uninstalled FDISR and all of its components

Restored the original image using FDISR (which had FDISR installed with pre-boot enabled).

Upon initial reboot after restoration, the pre-boot screen was NOT present.

I was able to simply enable pre-boot while in Windows and reboot.

I will let the experts haggle over what the results of my test mean, but what it means to me is that Image for DOS does not mess with the MBR.

[ErikAlbert]

My guess is that IFD recovers the MBR inside the backup file automatically.

Acronis True Image, does NOT recover the MBR inside the backup file automatically, you have to include the restore of MBR inside the backup file MANUALLY in ATI, when you recover a .tib-file.
So ATI has a wizard to restore the partition and allows you to loop back in order to restore the MBR as well and then it doesn't matter if FDISR is installed or not installed.
That's why I had problems with the FDISR Preboot Screen. It wasn't ATI, it was ME, who didn't know that ATI doesn't recover the MBR automatically.
Keep in mind that ATI separates the partition and MBR on purpose to make other things possible.

Another and shorter method is enable/disable the preboot in FDISR at the right moment when you restore a partition without the MBR, using ATI, which means that FDISR will take care of its Preboot screen.

[Peter2150]

It is interesting because according to what I was told by Image for Dos folks the mbr should have been reset to standard which means in Dallens 1st test Preboot wasn't there. I agree with Dallen's conclusion, it would appear in the case of image for Dos/windows, they don't mess with the MBR.

So there are fairly easy solutions for both Acronis and Terabyte products. Cool.

Thanks Dallen, and Erik for the testing.

[wilbertnl]

It is my understanding that with older versions of FD-ISR the location of some $ISRBIN file was hardcoded in the MBR.
And this file contains the executable for the preboot screen.
For that reason trouble was guaranteed when imaging software was restoring the image, but not exactly at the same disk sectors.
The suggested workaround was to disable the preboot, and enabling it after a restore from image. That way the MBR would contain the current location of $ISRBIN.

So, the problem had nothing to do with the MBR itself, but with the location of that important $ISRBIN file, measured in sectors.
Unless the imaging software also needed the MBR for it's own code, then there is a conflict.

The latest FD-ISR release has a workaround for this, so, basically the problem is still there, but the user won't notice anymore.

[crofttk]

Good work, dallen.

As I've said before, I've backed up and successfully restored system partitions with FD-ISR installed, including snapshots, with BING, IFW/IFD, and ATI.

The most I've ever had to do in these case was to run fixmbr from the recovery console. I can't recall with certainty in which case I had to, probably with ATI, but I don't consider that a particularly onerous or exotic fix.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Good work, dallen.

As I've said before, I've backed up and successfully restored system partitions with FD-ISR installed, including snapshots, with BING, IFW/IFD, and ATI.

The most I've ever had to do in these case was to run fixmbr from the recovery console. I can't recall with certainty in which case I had to, probably with ATI, but I don't consider that a particularly onerous or exotic fix. <-QUOTE}

Thanks crofttk. Probably for most of us no, but for some???. In any case it appears now, just reenabling Preboot does the trick. Everyone should be able to handle that.

Pete

[Longboard]

Good, happy to see this.
Thanks dallen.

Now for the boot cd and archive restore, keep nudging you guys. :)

[dallen]

There are a lot of people in these forums that help me practically every day. So, it is my pleasure to contribute. Thanks everyone for the kind words and Peter2150 deserves credit for giving me the idea to run these tests.

I do not use ATI, but I'm sure that it is a great piece of sortware. IFW/IFD and FDISR are my softwares of choice, again thanks to Peter2150. He was the one that turned me on to both. You can all imagine where I would be had he not opened my eyes. Just in case you cannot, let me tell you. I would be afraid to try anything new for fear that it might mess up my system and, despite my paranoia, I would spend an entire weekend doing a complete reinstallation of Windows/Programs all to often. Instead of controlling my system, my system would be controlling me.

Now, rather than simply relying on research and other users' opinions about which anti-virus software is the best, I am able to trial all of the top candidates and learn for myself which one fits my style and is compatible with my systems. One reboot later using FDISR all traces of the AV are gone. This allows not only for a perfect uninstallation, but it offers the last candidate to be evaluated the identical oppotunity as the first. I love First Defense ISR!!!

Image for Windows/DOS has also saved me an enormous amount of time. I am sure that most of the people in this forum are in the same boat as me. I am the computer expert in my circle of friends and family and the price for holding this title is that I get called when someone's system is trashed. After having spend a second weekend rebuilding a particular individual's system, I decided that steps needed to be taken to make this process easier and faster. Now when I rebuild a system, before I turn the system back to its rightfull owner for certain death I create an image using Image for DOS and store it on CDs or DVDs. The owner is given their system and their "Restoration Disks" and told to keep the disks in a safe location. Next time I get a call from the same person to fix their system, I simply walk them through the restoration process over the phone and it saves me a trip and an enormous amount of time. I love Image for Windows!!!

I will always buy software from both Terabyte Unlimited and Raxco for as long as I'm alive, or until Symantec acquires them, whichever comes first.

[silver0066]

The new ATI program (Workstation 9.1 v3633 has a pre/post command on the Options menu where you can automatically diable b4 backup and enable right after. It works very well

[ErikAlbert]

I'm not going to discuss the differences between ATI and IFW/IFD, because I never tried IFW/IFD for real, because I couldn't figure out how to do a backup/restore with IFW/IFD immediately as I did with ATI.
ATI is an userfriendly software, IFW/IFD is NOT and every softwares becomes userfriendly, when you use it for awhile.

But the very first contact without any help or advice is what a software really makes userfriendly. ATI was able to do this for me and IFW/IFD failed.

ATI is working perfect for me, with or without FDISR installed and backup/recovery are working fine.
There was a problem in the past, but ATI wasn't the problem, ErikAlbert was the problem. ;D

[dallen]

ErikAlbert,
I've been following your postings and have been impressed with what you have done lately. That being said, I completely disagree with your last posting.

First, you begin by claiming not to be discussing the differences between ATI and IFW/IFD stating that you have not "tried IFW/IFD for real." Then, you dive right in and explain why IFD/IFW is NOT userfriendly, but insist that ATI is.

My experience with IFW/IFD is a polar opposite of yours. In my opinion IFD/IFD is very userfriendly. The simplicity of the menues in IFD makes for an almost fool proof experience. I have not used ATI, but I did read through their forum a while back. It seemed that some people had significant problems with ATI's functionality. One thing about IFD is that it works. It may be simple and without all of the bells and whistles, but it also seems to be without user complaints of images failing.

As intelligent as you seem based on your recent postings, I find it difficult to believe that you "immmediately figured out how to do a backup/restore with ATI" without any "help or advice," but had difficulty doing the same with IFW/IFD. It simply is not plausible that you make these claims after having actually tried Image for DOS and Image for Windows.

After having read and re-read your last posting, it is my belief that your words serve only to mislead people and give potential users a false impression of Terabyte's products. A retraction would be appropriate.

[ErikAlbert]

I tried BootItNG and IFW and I couldn't do a backup immediately.
With ATI however, I could do a backup immediately with the backup wizard.
Maybe I'm not that intelligent. ;D
I never said Terabyte is bad, ATI is IMO more userfriendly.

[dallen]

Fair enough. After having re-read my own posting, I believe that I was in error. In all fairness, I did not know much about ATI. I have since read over the user guide for ATI and talked to a current user of the program and it seems quite user friendly.

ErikAlbert,
Please accept my apologies if you feel that I was too harsh. I acknowledge that I was premature in my conclusion and have opened up to the posibility that you may be right about your userfriendly assessment. I think I will find out by trying ATI.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Fair enough. After having re-read my own posting, I believe that I was in error. In all fairness, I did not know much about ATI. I have since read over the user guide for ATI and talked to a current user of the program and it seems quite user friendly.

ErikAlbert,
Please accept my apologies if you feel that I was too harsh. I acknowledge that I was premature in my conclusion and have opened up to the posibility that you may be right about your userfriendly assessment. I think I will find out by trying ATI. <-QUOTE}
Don't worry about it, it's just software. ;D
I didn't mention this, but it was the very first time, I used a real backup software on my computer.
In the past I always copy/pasted my personal files on CD using packet writing : DirectCD (Roxio) and when I was in real trouble, I re-installed my computer from scratch manually.
So it was really NEW to me in many ways and maybe that was the reason why I didn't understand IFW immediately. :)

[dallen]

Then you were probably amazed, as I was, when you first discovered the time and effort that an imaging program can save you when things go bad.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Then you were probably amazed, as I was, when you first discovered the time and effort that an imaging program can save you when things go bad. <-QUOTE}
I'm still amazed, but I'm getting used to it. ;D
I just didn't have the right hardware to make it possible.

[dallen]

Right hardware?

Were you missing an external drive?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Right hardware?
Were you missing an external drive? <-QUOTE}
My old computer had only one 17gb harddisk, no second harddisk, no external harddisk and just a CD-writer.
That's not the right hardware, if you want :
- a system and data partition
- each partition on a separate physical harddisk
- a backup on an external harddisk
This is for me the best and safest way to store and backup data. Also the minimum for hardware.
I still don't have my external harddisk, but that is just a matter of time.

I have of course a CD/DVD-writer, but not for harddisk backup, that is asking for trouble although not everybody agrees with me. Sometimes I listen to members, sometimes not.
I can use my CD/DVD-writer as a second backup for my personal data, but nothing more than that.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE->





Use Image for DOS to create and verify image onto external drive via USB 2.0 [pre-boot was enabled during the creation of the image].

Restored the image from Image for DOS. <-QUOTE}
Hi Dallen,

I have tried this, but was unsuccessful. I would like to know how you did it. I prefer this method over the disks.

I know this is the FD part of the forum and not Terabyte, maybe we can take it to another part of the forum. I sure would appreciate it.

Thanks very much

Rilla927

[dallen]

Rilla927,
My first question is whether or not you have USB2.0 or USB1.1?

If you only have USB1.1, then you will not be able to use Image for DOS to backup to external hard drive via USB, to the best of my knowledge.

If you do have USB2.0, then you would simply select the drive you want to backup as the source. Select as the destination USB2.0 and your external hard drive should be there. I will admit that on occasion the drive did not show up. In that case, I simply rebooted and voila it was there.

If you only have USB1.1, you can still backup your system, but the only way that I've found to do that is with Image for Windows.

Let me know more about your setup and I will let you know how I would procede if I had your setup.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Rilla927,
My first question is whether or not you have USB2.0 or USB1.1? <-QUOTE} Yes, I have a Hi Speed 2.0 200gig Buslink.

I tried it a couple of times, selected the source and destination etc. Do you make a folder for your back up first on your external? I thought I remember reading that in the help file.

After the image was done I checked it and there were funny looking objects that were supposed to be the image files broke up into 2gig in size each.

I have read the help file, researched the knowledge based for anything related to restoring from an external with IFD. I don't know what I'm doing wrong/ misunderstanding what I read.

I sure appreciate you offering to help! The Wilders Bunch has a wealth of knowledge to offer to folks if they want to learn and I think that's what makes Wilders #1! All you guys & gals are always willing to help others:thumb:

Thanks Rilla927

[Longboard]

Hello Rilla

I have not had your problems (yet!)
WHere exactly is the process breaking down?

FWIW here are a couple fo things: you probably know this already:

IFD has some specific settings related to naming conventions for image files that must be used.

DOS and FAT32 partitions have some file size limitations for image size which is the rationale behind the 2g image files sequence. CD and DVD backups are created in apprpriate size automatically.

I make a folder called "IMAGES" and subfolders with dates to store images using IFW. Probably works with IFD also
Did you validate the images? Byte for Byte?

I'm sure you are not doing this but you cannot/must not restore an image to the partition your OS is in while it is operating.

Look here:
http://www.heffy.com/image.htm
and here
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/examples.html
for useful video tutorials.


Out of interest why IFD rather that IFW?
If all else fails e-mail to support@terabyteunlimited.com or go here:
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/webnews.html
and click on your news group of interest. No registration req.

There is I believe a support group on Yahoo, but I have not visited there.
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/bootitng/ (needs some sort of registration)

Regards
Lbd.

[dallen]

To be clear, I now understand that you have a USB2.0 enabled external drive, but I want to ensure that you have it plugged into a USB2.0 port on your system.

Assuming that to be the case, you do not have to create a folder on the destination drive, although I find it helpful for organizational purposes.

Here is the order of selection from the initial screen:
>>Create Image
>>BIOS HD (direct)
>>Select appropriate drive (usually Hard Drive 0)
>>Select appropriate partition (usually Partition (01))
This may be the confusing point. When asked for the "Save to" selection:
>>Partition
>>USB2 HD
You should see your external HD. If you do, then select it, if you do not, there is a problem (This is where I had earlier stated that a restart usually remedies the issue.
>>Select appropriate partition
>>Name the file (you can hit Tab and use the arrow keys to navigate to the appropriate sub directory if you desire)
>>I usually select 2 GB (you may decide either other option if you plan to create CDs at a later point)
>>I usually select Y for "Do you want to validate the image after it is created (Y/N)?
>>I usually select Y for Byte-for-Byte comparison (Y/N)?

The process should begin and when finished you should notice that there are multiple 2 GB files created depending on the size of your source hard disk.

I find this page to be particularly helful:

Heffy's Image Tutorials (http://www.heffy.com/image.htm)

If you scroll down to the "Using IFD (Image for DOS)" section, there are two tutorials that I reference occassionally.

Thanks for the kind words. Wilders forum users help me learn everyday, so the least I can do is return the favor.

[Longboard]

LOL, Yeah: what he said ;D

{QUOTE-> >>I usually select 2 GB (you may decide either other option if you plan to create CDs at a later point) <-QUOTE}

Or DVD size files if you want DVDs later

That might be important for you.

(would be too many discs foe me)

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...
>>USB2 HD
You should see your external HD. If you do, then select it, if you do not, there is a problem (This is where I had earlier stated that a restart usually remedies the issue.
... <-QUOTE}Just to supplement the explanation of that step a little bit, after selecting "USB2 HD", you will see a green box come up with a count down from 5 seconds, looking for your USB2 HDs, then the list of found drives will pop up. dallen covered it well -- I just thought I'd throw in that detail as it's a critical juncture for what Rilla927 should be seeing.

dallen, FYI, since I have only done these kind of tests on my home desktops and, as I am stuck in Texas on business and have nothing better to do, I went ahead and performed your Test 2 on my Dell Inspiron E1505 laptop, using an external USB2 120 GB WD Passport Drive.

However, just for giggles (and to elbow Peter2150;) ), I did not disable the FD-ISR pre-boot before imaging with IFD.

I did 4 image sessions:

The Dell Utility partition, 39MB, about 6 MB occupied (a primary partition)
My System Partition, 28.9 GB, about 10 GB occupied (a primary partition)
My extended partition, containing 3 logical drives, a total of 59.2 GB, about 49 GB occupied
The Dell Restore partition, 3.6 GB, about 3 GB occupied (a primary partition)


Then I booted from a copy of my WinXPSP2 CD (Dell OEM) and went into its Recovery Console where I deleted all partitions on my hard drive.

I just completed the 4 restores a little bit ago and everything went as it did for you. Everything turned out flawless except that the FD-ISR preboot splash was missing. After entering the FD-ISR management console and re-activating the pre-boot, everything is back the way it was before.

So, I always sweat a little when I do these kinds of tests but, now that it's done on my laptop, I'm glad I did it !

I guess next I will have to catch up with ErikAlbert and vet ATI 9 on my laptop.;)

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Hello Rilla

I have not had your problems (yet!)
WHere exactly is the process breaking down?

FWIW here are a couple fo things: you probably know this already:

IFD has some specific settings related to naming conventions for image files that must be used. <-QUOTE} Hi Longboard!

It's funny you mention the naming conventions, I was just reading the help file again and seen that but I didn't quite understand it.

The part that isn't working is restoring the image(s) from my external NTFS HD.

{QUOTE-> DOS and FAT32 partitions have some file size limitations for image size which is the rationale behind the 2g image files sequence. CD and DVD backups are created in apprpriate size automatically. <-QUOTE}
I also noticed a lot of reference to Fat32's in the help file as samples. Could it be the problem that I'm trying to restore from NTFS, who knows.

{QUOTE-> Did you validate the images? Byte for Byte? <-QUOTE} Yes, and yes.

{QUOTE-> I'm sure you are not doing this but you cannot/must not restore an image to the partition your OS is in while it is operating. <-QUOTE} Correct.

I have emailed Terabyte with so many questions, he could probably scream!

Thanks for the links;)


{QUOTE-> Out of interest why IFD rather that IFW? <-QUOTE} I use both. In order to restore of course it's IFD.

Rilla927

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...Could it be the problem that I'm trying to restore from NTFS, who knows. ... <-QUOTE}I would say not necessarily. I failed to mention, my WD Passport Drive I just tested with above is formatted as NTFS.

I guess if I still find myself with too much time on my hands after work, I should image with IFW also, and verify that IFD restores that OK too.

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> However, just for giggles (and to elbow Peter2150;) ), I did not disable the FD-ISR pre-boot before imaging with IFD.
<-QUOTE}
crofttk,
Just a point of clarification, I too did not disable the FD-ISR pre-boot before imaging with IFD during my tests.

{QUOTE-> I also noticed a lot of reference to Fat32's in the help file as samples. Could it be the problem that I'm trying to restore from NTFS, who knows.
<-QUOTE}
Rilla927,
I did not realize that you are having trouble restoring from the external drive. All of my hard drives are formatted using NTFS, so I would not think that to be the issue. I am afraid that absent more details about your specific issue, I am at a loss. If you can elaborate on when the problem occurs in the process and the give more specifics of the problem itself, then I might be able to be of further help.

Side note: Using Image for DOS, as opposed to Image for Windows, does not allow for the operating system to be in use, so I would not think that to be of issue here.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> crofttk,
Just a point of clarification, I too did not disable the FD-ISR pre-boot before imaging with IFD during my tests. <-QUOTE}Ooops... mea culpa, I should have read more carefully. I saw the first sentence of "TEST 2" and didn't put everything correctly in my head when I read the rest !:P

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> To be clear, I now understand that you have a USB2.0 enabled external drive, but I want to ensure that you have it plugged into a USB2.0 port on your system.

Assuming that to be the case, you do not have to create a folder on the destination drive, although I find it helpful for organizational purposes.

Here is the order of selection from the initial screen:
>>Create Image
>>BIOS HD (direct)
>>Select appropriate drive (usually Hard Drive 0)
>>Select appropriate partition (usually Partition (01))
This may be the confusing point. When asked for the "Save to" selection:
>>Partition
>>USB2 HD
You should see your external HD. If you do, then select it, if you do not, there is a problem (This is where I had earlier stated that a restart usually remedies the issue.
>>Select appropriate partition
>>Name the file (you can hit Tab and use the arrow keys to navigate to the appropriate sub directory if you desire)
>>I usually select 2 GB (you may decide either other option if you plan to create CDs at a later point)
>>I usually select Y for "Do you want to validate the image after it is created (Y/N)?
>>I usually select Y for Byte-for-Byte comparison (Y/N)?

The process should begin and when finished you should notice that there are multiple 2 GB files created depending on the size of your source hard disk.

I find this page to be particularly helful:

Heffy's Image Tutorials (http://www.heffy.com/image.htm)

If you scroll down to the "Using IFD (Image for DOS)" section, there are two tutorials that I reference occassionally.

Thanks for the kind words. Wilders forum users help me learn everyday, so the least I can do is return the favor. <-QUOTE}
Hi Dallen!

I assume the USB Ports are 2.0. I never thought of that. The system will be 2yrs old next month. How would I check to make sure?

I had done all the same steps except for one. I didn't use the BIOS HD (direct). I used the first option, I think it is BIOS. I will try the Bios HD (direct).

Do you use Bios HD (direct) when restoring ?

When restoring with IFD, do you need to just select the folder that is holding the image or something specific in the folder?

Thanks for Tutorial link.

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I would say not necessarily. I failed to mention, my WD Passport Drive I just tested with above is formatted as NTFS. <-QUOTE}
I know that sounds silly because the program wouldn't be compatible with XP and I know it is.

{QUOTE-> I guess if I still find myself with too much time on my hands after work, I should image with IFW also, and verify that IFD restores that OK too. <-QUOTE}
I guess you do have too much time on your hands, lol!

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE->


Rilla927,
I did not realize that you are having trouble restoring from the external drive. All of my hard drives are formatted using NTFS, so I would not think that to be the issue. I am afraid that absent more details about your specific issue, I am at a loss. If you can elaborate on when the problem occurs in the process and the give more specifics of the problem itself, then I might be able to be of further help. <-QUOTE} Dallen,

the reason I didn't state exactly, I wasn't sure if I was doing just the restore wrong or the imaging & restore.

Let me know what kind of details you would like and I will fire away!

Thanks

Rilla927

[dallen]

When you said that you tried to create the image, but it just created a bunch of "objects" that were broke into 2 gig segments, I presume that these are the image files.

It sounds like you have successfully created the image.

During the restoration process, what goes wrong? I mean what are you doing and what are you seeing?

[Longboard]

@crofftk
More good news!!
Application of strict scientific principles in action:
Hypothesis
Experiment @dallen
Results
Re-do experiment
Confirm results.
Repeat experiment with changed variables @crofftk
Check results.

ET VIOLA. :)

@dallen
{QUOTE-> Side note: Using Image for DOS, as opposed to Image for Windows, does not allow for the operating system to be in use, so I would not think that to be of issue here. <-QUOTE}
Agreed, just a little firewall in my head about restoring to OS partition to aviod mistakes !!

So if Rilla is creating the image Ok, where is the restore going wrong?.

Enough space to restore?; Must be more than used portion of original partition imaged

?To restore, point IFD at the folder holding the image as per video.

There are other apps that can "own" the .img file association, this should not be a problem in IFD?

Shame on you rilla for finding in a hole in one fo my faves ;)

Lbd.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> When you said that you tried to create the image, but it just created a bunch of "objects" that were broke into 2 gig segments, I presume that these are the image files.

It sounds like you have successfully created the image.

During the restoration process, what goes wrong? I mean what are you doing and what are you seeing? <-QUOTE}

I think the image goes fine, no errors.

I was selecting the image 01, I think it said. I wish I had a set so I could take a screen shot to show you what I'm talking about.

Rilla927

[dallen]

Image 01 is actually the second file. The first is Image.

I am a little confused. You said that the "image goes fine." Are you referring to making the image?

If you have a digital camera, you may want to take a picture of the screen. If you have that capability let me know and I will arrange for you to send me the photo. My guess is that your issue can be fixed by changing the way you are doing something.

Longboard,
Don't fret just yet. I do not think Rilla927 has discovered a "hole." I think this issue is related to a subtle misstep.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> So if Rilla is creating the image Ok, where is the restore going wrong?. <-QUOTE} Dun no!

{QUOTE-> Enough space to restore?; Must be more than used portion of original partition imaged <-QUOTE} Originally I tried this on my desktop I had 48gig in used space on a 138gig HD. Are you guys wiping the drive before you restore? I wouldn't think you have too.

{QUOTE-> To restore, point IFD at the folder holding the image as per video. <-QUOTE} I watched the video. Did you notice in the video he was using a Fat32 to back the image up too. Video- Creating a back up image to a partion or HD.

When you select the folder for a store, what specific do you need to select in the folder? I think this is where the problem starts.

{QUOTE-> There are other apps that can "own" the .img file association, this should not be a problem in IFD? <-QUOTE}
Your guess is a good as mine.

{QUOTE-> Shame on you rilla for finding in a hole in one fo my faves ;) <-QUOTE} LOL;)

[Rilla927]

Just wanted to mention everytime I turn on the external it throws my boot sequence out of order I noticed.

When I go to restart, it says press any key to boot, but when you do it does nothing and I have to go in the Bios and change it back.

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Image 01 is actually the second file. The first is Image.

I am a little confused. You said that the "image goes fine." Are you referring to making the image?

If you have a digital camera, you may want to take a picture of the screen. If you have that capability let me know and I will arrange for you to send me the photo. My guess is that your issue can be fixed by changing the way you are doing something.

Longboard,
Don't fret just yet. I do not think Rilla927 has discovered a "hole." I think this issue is related to a subtle misstep. <-QUOTE}
No, I don't think it's a hole either. I think I'm selecting the wrong item in the folder to restore. So which should I select?

Yes, I'm referring to creating the image seems go okay if I use IFW or IFD. The issue is restoring with IFD.

No digital camera, but I have ClipMate 7 that can take screen shots;D

Rilla927

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Originally I tried this on my desktop I had 48gig in used space on a 138gig HD. Are you guys wiping the drive before you restore? I wouldn't think you have too. <-QUOTE}Presumably, you are restoring the image to the same drive from which the image was taken, therefore, space should not be an issue. Is your drive set up as one partition spanning the entire drive, or multiple?

YOU DO NOT NEED TO WIPE THE DRIVE!!!

{QUOTE-> I watched the video. Did you notice in the video he was using a Fat32 to back the image up too. Video- Creating a back up image to a partion or HD. <-QUOTE}I am confident that NTFS is not contributing to your issue.
{QUOTE-> When you select the folder for a store, what specific do you need to select in the folder? I think this is where the problem starts. <-QUOTE}What you should do is boot into Windows, goto the external drive which you want to store the image, create a folder with a distinct name that you will recognize when you see it in IFD. Then boot to IFD, use the aforementioned steps to create your image in that folder, again naming the image in a manner you will recognize when you see it during the restore process. I recomment validating the image and selecting the byte-for-byte comparison option. IFD should tell you that the image was created successfully. Please let me know if you are able to get to this point successfully. If not, tell me why not.

Then restore the image using the aforementioned steps. I need to know what specifically is occurring that indicates that you are unable to restore the image. Are you getting some sort of error?

[dallen]

I read your last message after posting mine. Upon reading that your external drive causes problems in your boot sequence, I am concerned. Nevertheless, assuming that you can get into IFD with your external drive powered on, are you able to find the extrenal drive by selecting the option to restore from USB2 device?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Presumably, you are restoring the image to the same drive from which the image was taken <-QUOTE} Yes. {QUOTE-> therefore, space should not be an issue. <-QUOTE} Correct.
{QUOTE-> Is your drive set up as one partition spanning the entire drive, or multiple? <-QUOTE} C drive equals one whole partion, no multiples.

{QUOTE-> I am confident that NTFS is not contributing to your issue.
What you should do is boot into Windows, goto the external drive which you want to store the image, create a folder with a distinct name that you will recognize when you see it in IFD. Then boot to IFD, use the aforementioned steps to create your image in that folder, again naming the image in a manner you will recognize when you see it during the restore process. I recomment validating the image and selecting the byte-for-byte comparison option. IFD should tell you that the image was created successfully. Please let me know if you are able to get to this point successfully. If not, tell me why not. <-QUOTE} I can get that far, yes. I always select validating the image and byte-for-byte option.

It's the restoring part I have trouble with.

{QUOTE-> Then restore the image using the aforementioned steps. I need to know what specifically is occurring that indicates that you are unable to restore the image. Are you getting some sort of error? <-QUOTE} I'm going to try this on the laptop to test because my desktop hasn't been shipped back yet (the power supply burned up).

I will make an image to DVD first to be safe and then I will do an image to the external and try it and get back to you, okay.

We had a power outage earlier today so I was knocked off line for a while.

Thanks Dallen!

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I read your last message after posting mine. Upon reading that your external drive causes problems in your boot sequence, I am concerned. Nevertheless, assuming that you can get into IFD with your external drive powered on, are you able to find the extrenal drive by selecting the option to restore from USB2 device? <-QUOTE}
The external is always recognized, it just throws the Bios out of wack. It puts the external in first position in Bios sequence instead of my C drive, so everytime I'm done using the external I go into the Bios and change things back to they way they should be.

Is this common for externals to do this? Do you think maybe that's why I can't do a restore? Just wondered.

The laptop I'm going to try this on only has one HD and I don't ever remember it doing anything funky like that, but I will soon find out.

Will get back to you as soon as possible;D Fed-Ex runs for another two hours maybe my Desktop will show up.

Rilla927

[Longboard]

Busy night you guys

YES> DO NOT FORMAT C

This may be the problem:

If you have only one partition and are trying to restore an image as a test to that partition, the app may not let you.

Try creating a spare partition from your free space of appropriate size, format to FAT32 or NTFS. Then retry the restore of image to the new partition.

Just point IFD or IFW at the folder holding the images not the specific image file. The primary image (.img file) has no number, just the .img name.

If you are using BING for partition work. and you should :) , then you must use windows to format the partition in NTFS via Control Panel> ADMIN tools> Computer MGT>Disc Mgt.> R click on selected partition and select Format ( there is also an app detailed in terabyte site and in Microsft support "convert exe" which will do the job, but the above is easier) That path can also be used to create new partitions from the free space if you want.

BING will format a new partition in FAt32 which is fine for image restore and Using most apps, just has some problems with file size over 4G (you dont have to install BING just boot from floppy and go to partition work, see the videos)

You probably know all thta already !

The whole process from start of create new partition and formatting to NTFS takes about 45 minutes.

If the process is successful then you can review your partition set-up (I also had 1 partition "C:" but have susequently made some changes to primary HD and partitioned external HD tp make room for FD-ISR snapshots/archives.)

The created partition can be Deleted by BING floppy. work with partitions and returned to free space, then the original "C" can be recreated with resize if you want.

It took me a while to get up the strenghth to use BING and I was able to take it to a spare box of someone elses' where I put it through some tests. Now have total faith in the app. So far if there has been a problem it has been my limited understanding rather than the app. :)

HTH
Let us know what the outcome is.
Lbd

[dallen]

I am going to Indianapolis in 5 minutes. I will be back online tonight to respond.

Your boot order in the BIOS should be set to the following:
Floppy
CD/DVD drive
Hard Drive (with OS)

[Longboard]

Hey dallen and Rilla:
I may be butting in a bit here and we are all posting simultaneously, at least when I am in your time zone :)
I will step out and let you guys sort through this.
I will follow with interest.

Lbd.

[Rilla927]

@Longboard

I never wiped the disk, I threw that in there thinking maybe thats what others were doing.

I don't have BING installed. If I need it I use it from my bootable CD.

Thanks for help, I learned something new about BING;)

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I am going to Indianapolis in 5 minutes. I will be back online tonight to respond.

Your boot order in the BIOS should be set to the following:
Floppy
CD/DVD drive
Hard Drive (with OS) <-QUOTE}
I have mine set to boot from CD with the softwares that I use. So far, I have never needed to boot from floppy.

There is a section also in my bios where all the HD'S are listed in a certain order, that's the one I was talking about where the external put itself in first place instead of my C drive.

On my Desktop there are three HD's C, J, K and the external makes the fourth drive which it gives a drive letter of L.

Well fella's, I completed the image to disk, then I used IFW to do the image to the external. No errors, everything went okay.

I took a snapshot of whats in the folder on the external so you can see.

Rill927

[Longboard]

@rilla
out of interest could you post a screeny of your partitions and external drive.
Where is that folder 06012006?

That is a neat little image file
Must be super quick to create.
Lbd.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> @rilla
out of interest could you post a screeny of your partitions and external drive.
Where is that folder 06012006?

That is a neat little image file
Must be super quick to create.
Lbd. <-QUOTE}

Hi Longboard,

I did take a screen shot to post.

You mentioned the folder with the numbers, that's todays date.

At the moment, I'm doing this on the laptop that has one HD plus the external. Then I will try the same procedure on my desktop.

Awesome little app I used to create the screen shot. Very quick and easy. It's called ClipMate v7.0.

Okay, here goes the screen shot.

Take care Longbord!

[Longboard]

@rilla

I meant a screeny of your partition setup;
Control panel>Admin tools> Comp Management> Disc Management and you will see your drives and partitions.

Yes I thought the numbers are todays date I was wondering where the file is kept on the HD and In which partition?

Lbd.

EDIT: I am so sorry, my previous post #34 i wrote this:
{QUOTE-> ?To restore, point IFD at the folder holding the image as per video <-QUOTE}

It should have been....go to folder where the image is stored (in your case the folder in the screeny 06012006 ) and point to/select the file "BACK UP. IMG" then "restore" ( or in BING wwp window "paste"), this should initiate the restore, all else being equal.

Why not try the restore from BING wwp window as per the video demo to test?

Sorry for that. HTH. you probably have worked it out by now.
Dont mean to be rude with all the simple instructions.
If you have BING then it's fair to assume a high level of working experience. (except in my case :blink: )

You said {QUOTE-> I read the manual for three days in a row til my eyeballs fell out. <-QUOTE}
LOL. me too.



Lbd.

[dallen]

I am sorry that I did not respond last night. My girlfriend was delighted to see me and frankly that was more fun than typing on my computer.;)

With all of the talk about partitioning, I think that this relatively simple issue has became unnecessarily complex. As I understand your situation Rilla927, you are able to successfully create an image of your C: drive, but are having issues restoring it usind IFD.

Keep in Mind that the Image001 file is the second file. The Image file is the first. Longboard is correct when he (sorry for the assumption) says:
{QUOTE-> Just point IFD or IFW at the folder holding the images not the specific image file. The primary image (.img file) has no number, just the .img name. <-QUOTE}

If you would like to send me a PM with a phone number that I can reach you, I think I could solve your problem in considerably less time.

If not, then please tell me what exacly happens when you attempt to restore. I'm still not seeing what is going wrong.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> @rilla

I meant a screeny of your partition setup;
Control panel>Admin tools> Comp Management> Disc Management and you will see your drives and partitions. <-QUOTE}
Sorry, I'm learning as I go a long. There will be a screen shot in the end.

{QUOTE-> Yes I thought the numbers are todays date I was wondering where the file is kept on the HD and In which partition? <-QUOTE}
The image is kept on the E drive=Buslink.



{QUOTE-> EDIT: I am so sorry, my previous post #34 i wrote this:


It should have been....go to folder where the image is stored (in your case the folder in the screeny 06012006 ) and point to/select the file "BACK UP. IMG" then "restore" ( or in BING wwp window "paste"), this should initiate the restore, all else being equal. <-QUOTE}
No need to worry my friend;);)

I noticed you said to select the "BACK UP IMG" in the folder. That's what I was doing wrong, I was selecting the IMG01 or something like that. I never once selected the file you just mentioned.

{QUOTE-> Why not try the restore from BING wwp window as per the video demo to test? <-QUOTE}
I have played around with BING to create other partions before, other than that, that's it. I always lean towards IFD for restoring. I know you can use BING for that, I just never tried it yet. In the future I will.

{QUOTE-> Sorry for that. HTH. you probably have worked it out by now.
Dont mean to be rude with all the simple instructions.

You said
LOL. me too. <-QUOTE}
No you are fine! I appreciate the help.

{QUOTE-> If you have BING then it's fair to assume a high level of working experience. (except in my case :blink: ) <-QUOTE}
No, not really! Just learning slowly as I go a long.:)

Rilla927

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I am sorry that I did not respond last night. My girlfriend was delighted to see me and frankly that was more fun than typing on my computer.;) <-QUOTE} I guess so!:):)

{QUOTE-> With all of the talk about partitioning, I think that this relatively simple issue has became unnecessarily complex. As I understand your situation Rilla927, you are able to successfully create an image of your C: drive, but are having issues restoring it usind IFD. <-QUOTE} Correct.

Yes and yes.

{QUOTE-> Keep in Mind that the Image001 file is the second file. The Image file is the first. Longboard is correct when he (sorry for the assumption) says: <-QUOTE} I will try choosing the file Longboard mentioned and see what happens and then I will get back to you guys.

Like I said, I think I'm choosing the wrong item in the folder when I do the restore.

I will let you know what happens.

[Rilla927]

I guess I should ask for instructions to restore from IFD, lol.

Thanks

[dallen]

I agree that the likely problem is that you are simply choosing the incorrect file during the restoration process. Please let us know the result.

[Rilla927]

I tried the restore and it will not work on this laptop.

If my memory serves me correct these USB ports may be 1.1.

Also I checked the bios to see if the external would show and it does not.

I checked the device manager to see if it shows up and it does.

Everytime I would choose "Restore From" USB 2.0 Device IFD said it could not find.

Is there a way to check the to see what version the USB ports are on the computer? When I looked in device manager I didn't see anything to indicate either or.

Rilla927

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...Is there a way to check the to see what version the USB ports are on the computer? When I looked in device manager I didn't see anything to indicate either or.

Rilla927 <-QUOTE}In device manager, a USB2 port is usually distinguishable from USB1.1 ports by the word "Enhanced" in the Controller/Port description.

For example, on my Dell Inspiron E1505 (new version of the 6000) laptop, the low-speed USB ports show as "USB Universal Host Controller" but the USB2 ports show as "USB2 Enhanced Host Controller".

If you don't see the word "Enhanced" in the descriptor for one of the ports, you may be limited to USB1.1. In that case, have a look here: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=251 and see if that helps.

If you DO have the word "Enhanced" in one of the ports' descriptors, then there's a good chance you DO have a USB2 port to plug into SOMEwhere.

If it turns out you DO have USB2, and if I recall correctly, you may have to look into to loading some other (ASPI ??) drivers with IFD to get it to pick up your USB2 drive's presence.

[Rilla927]

Hi Crofttk,

thanks for the in put. I learned something new. I love it when that happens;D

I took a screen shot of my USB stuff in device manager for you to see.

I'm assuming I do have the USB 2.0:-\:-\

[Peter2150]

Interesting. On my computer I have USB 1.1 on the front of the box and USB 2.0 on the rear. Long before I got to try IFW or Acronis I fired up Ghost 2003. It supports USB 1.1 and 2.0 and Firewire. But if you have both it requires USB 1.1, so I've ended up using Firewire for the imaging.

Dallen could this be an issue?

[Longboard]

@rilla
I know i wanted to stay out of this and leave it to dallen who likely has more expertise than me.

just a couple of things:
i remember you described one of your original images as taking >3hrs and we were suprised at that: sounds like possibly USB1.1 speeds? I cant actually see the "enhanced" label in your USB controller ports

your screeny of your discs/partitions did not show your USB drive although your "my computer" screeny did.

the article that crofftk pointed you to is too geekalicious for me. :o

I am assuming you want to restore an image with a "new" OS to use it

?does your laptop still have internal floppy?
If so create and boot from the BING disc or if no floppy, boot from CD ( make sure bios boot order is floppy>CD>HD, have the usb drive plugged in ), check "enable USB support" in settings and see if the USB device is recognised.

If Your USB device is not recognised, then the other option would be using IFD. SO, boot to BING, resize your C primary partition, create new partition of appropriate size, reboot, use IFD to restore your image to new partition, reboot to BING, and then move the new partition to the "top" of the list in WWP window.

If your boot.ini file looks like this:
[boot loader]
timeout=30
default=multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS
[operating systems]
multi(0)disk(0)rdisk(0)partition(1)\WINDOWS="Microsoft Windows XP Home Edition" /fastdetect /NoExecute=OptIn

then putting your restored image in the first partition will allow it to boot.
(there are more complicated ways for making the partition active, but I try not to fool with them yet)

Check this video about creating new partitions and ordering the partition table for booting and you will get the idea :)
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/videos/bing/bingxpcopy.wmv

Your laptop may well have one of those proprietary primary partitions that means your boot.ini file may have "...partition(2)..." in which case your created image will need to be moved to the second partition.

This is actually easier than it sounds.

Once the image is restored to the appropriate partition, reboot

SUpport in DOS for USB devices is notoriously difficult and you might be better off in IFW/BING

IF that fails ( ie BING not seeing the USB, but your bios seeing the USB )you could simply use the windows partition management in "disc mgt" to create a new partition to restore your image to with IFW, then reorder the partition table for booting to new partition.

All this is peculiar. I really cant enlighten you as to why, if you were able to create the image to your USB drive with IFD, it will not restore.

BUT, as noted there might be another solution to get your image restored and then we can find out later :)

You are booting the laptop with USB plugged in, not taht it should make a difference in XP, but it may make a difference in IFD or BING

Once you have rebooted successfully, you can go back to either BING or disc managemnet and delete/format what was the "C" partition. Be careful deleting the right partition WIndows will automatically label the partitions in the conventional way after next re-boot.

As to the question of whether you have USB 1.1 V 2.0:
My USB controllers look like this and show the "enhanced" label in there.

PS, there are updates for most of Terabyte products available http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=044

Sorry for butting in again.
Head hurting again. LOL
Lbd.

[dallen]

If my memory serves me, and sometimes it doesn't, you created an image successfully. Was this image created using IFD or IFW?

If you created the image from IFD, then my intuition tells me that Peter2150's theory does not apply. If IFD was able to see the drive during the creation process, then it should see the drive during the restoration.

If you created the image using IFW, then maybe you should try creating an image using IFD. If you cannot create and image using IFD, then Peter2150's theory may be relevant. If your issue is USB1.1 related, the my advice at this point would be either to concede to always using Image for Windows, or exploring a work around for Image for DOS. I must be honest and tell you that I cannot help you with this work around because I do not know anything about it. However, I would definately be interested in learning, so if that is the case and you discover a solution, then please teach me.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...I'm assuming I do have the USB 2.0:-\:-\ <-QUOTE}That's a pretty good assumption, I'd say.;)

To further see how your drive is connected, try this: In Device Manager, go into the menu bar at the top and, under "View", select "Devices by Connection". This will give you a differently organized view of your devices that show the PHYSICAL relationship of your USB ports and devices.

You may have to drill down several levels, e.g., "ACPI PC"/"Microsoft ACPI-Compliant System"/"PCI Bus"/"XXXX USB2 Enhanced Host Controller" -- in my case -- to get to where it shows your USB Mass Storage Device and what kind of port it's connected to.

If you find your drive connected to a USB2 port, that's a a good sign.

You're not yet necessarily in the clear though. You may have verified things in Windows but that could be another can of worms once you get out into the boot environment of IFD -- but you definitely have to ascertain whether your hardware is USB 2 capable.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> If my memory serves me, and sometimes it doesn't, you created an image successfully. Was this image created using IFD or IFW? <-QUOTE} Yes.
I had to use IFW because IFD kept saying it could not find the USB Device.



{QUOTE-> If you cannot create and image using IFD, then Peter2150's theory may be relevant. If your issue is USB1.1 related <-QUOTE} He may be correct! Cuz, I tried five times with IFD and four times with BING. I enabled the USB 2.0 option in BING and restarted and it shows no trace of a USB 2.0 Device.

When I tried the Restore option in BING all the options were greyed out to choose any HD.

I think with everyone's neighborly help it will get ironed out;D;D

[Rilla927]

Crofttk,

I read your last post. I will do what you said and get back to you.

[Rilla927]

Crofttk,

I used "Devices by Connenction". Here is a shot, don't know what it means either way.

[skbaltimore]

I'd just like to thank Dallen, et. al., for the help in making IFD even easier to work with. I sometimes avoid DOS-based programs because of things like the "8-3" naming limits, etc. But other times I find it a good challenge. As a result of having read through this thread, I reorganized my filing/naming system for IFD/IFW. Instead of including the date/time in the name of the file, like I would normally do in Windows, I used the following file naming sequence:

"Drive":\Image\"Date"\"Time" It basically accomplishes the same thing, but makes it both more compatible and more legible once I'm in a DOS environment. (See enclosed screenshot).

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Crofttk,

I used "Devices by Connenction". Here is a shot, don't know what it means either way. <-QUOTE}WELL, you ALMOST got there, Rilla. You next need to click the "+" sign next to the "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Contoller" item to expand it and show what is connected to it. Hopefully, it's an Enhanced USB port with your USB hard drive attached to it ! Keep clicking all the plus signs until you've expanded everything to the "end" device and no "+" signs are left.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> WELL, you ALMOST got there, Rilla. You next need to click the "+" sign next to the "Standard Enhanced PCI to USB Host Contoller" item to expand it and show what is connected to it. Hopefully, it's an Enhanced USB port with your USB hard drive attached to it ! Keep clicking all the plus signs until you've expanded everything to the "end" device and no "+" signs are left. <-QUOTE}
Sorry, I didn't notice I didn't expand all. Here is the new shot.

Thanks so much for all your help;)

[Rilla927]

Hi gang!

I came across some info and wanted to share it with you. Any and all advice will be appreciated.

@Crofttk
I did check out the link about the USB 1.1. Was wondering if that link and/or the info I will post has something to do with this situation.

Thanks to all:)

[Rilla927]

Wow! Did I offend someone?

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Wow! Did I offend someone? <-QUOTE}Not me. I've been traveling, so haven't followed each thread religiously.

It looks like you have no USB drive connected to the USB2. You should expand ALL of the plus signs to verify where your USB drive is connected, even those that don't have USB showing at this point to make sure.

As for the Whitepaper, I doubt that would be of any help to you in this case. The way I understand it, you're trying to figure out why IFD doesn't recognize your USB drive, not trying to boot from the USB drive.

[Longboard]

Still watching :)
Maybe you could take up dallen's offer of a phone call?
{QUOTE-> When I tried the Restore option in BING all the options were greyed out to choose any HD. <-QUOTE}
That sounds a bit disturbing.

Lbd.

[dallen]

I have tried keeping up with this thread, but I honestly do not know much about BING. All I know is IFD and IFW. Let me ask you Rilla, Do you have Firewire (that's IEEE1394)? If so, you may want to try using it instead of USB. If not, you may consider giving it a try.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Not me. I've been traveling, so haven't followed each thread religiously.

It looks like you have no USB drive connected to the USB2. You should expand ALL of the plus signs to verify where your USB drive is connected, even those that don't have USB showing at this point to make sure.

As for the Whitepaper, I doubt that would be of any help to you in this case. The way I understand it, you're trying to figure out why IFD doesn't recognize your USB drive, not trying to boot from the USB drive. <-QUOTE}
Hi Crofttk,

Sorry I have been absent. I received my desktop back and hooked it up and it screwed up worse than before it left here. The tech that worked on it deleted the Promise FastTrack Driver and fouled the whole system up. Won't boot into windows.

It was sent in to have the power supply replaced. It's going right back. This will be eight times it been shipped. Alienware couldn't do nothing right if their lives depended on it!

I will reconnect the USB Drive and expand ALL plus signs and take another screen shot.

The reason I mentioned the Whitepaper was because I originally had a problem "not being able to store from a USB External".

Then we got into the version of the ports. Just wanted to see if it applied.

Right now I'm in another part of the house no where near the USB external.
I will get back to you with the screen shot. Thanks very much;)

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Still watching :)
Maybe you could take up dallen's offer of a phone call?

That sounds a bit disturbing.

Lbd. <-QUOTE}
Yes I agree Longboard!

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I have tried keeping up with this thread, but I honestly do not know much about BING. All I know is IFD and IFW. Let me ask you Rilla, Do you have Firewire (that's IEEE1394)? If so, you may want to try using it instead of USB. If not, you may consider giving it a try. <-QUOTE}
Hi Dallen,

you have been a great help as all the others have been:)

Now you mentioned Firewire. Honestly, I have never thought about it.

I will have a look in my box of goodies to see if it came with one, if not I know I have one laying around here somewhere. Good idea! I will have to check into it.

[Rilla927]

New screen shot!

[crofttk]

OK, Rilla, it looks to me like you sure have a USB2 connection to that hard drive -- at least when you're in Windows. So, assuming you are hooked into the same physical port when you try IFD, one MIGHT expect USB2 functionality with IFD.

BUT, all this does is show that your hardware is capable within Windows -- at least it eliminates some of the wild goose chasing you could get into.

I've had no problems with USB2 and IFD, so I don't really have an experience base to work from and I will have to defer to other members to give you better help from here on out. I just thought it was important to establish you indeed had the right hardware and basic functionality.

[wilbertnl]

For IFD: does that USB drive need to be formatted in FAT32 or doesn't that matter?
I can imagine that IFD is able to create images of NTFS partitions, but need to store that in a dos accessible place?

[Rui]

Hi Rilla927

I do hope Longboard, dallen and crofttk won't consider my post an intrusion, as (and I have read this whole thread) they have been trying to help you in a hard and quite dedicated way.
It happens that I also use IFW/IFD to backup/restore my system partition to a USB external drive.
I have found that sometimes IFD fails to see the external USB drive. When this happens, switching the USB drive off and on again solves the problem. After this operation, IFD does recognize the external USD drive.
Hope this helps.
By the way, there are new versions of IFW/IFD (updated today). See
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/imagew.html
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/image.html
Regards
Rui

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...I do hope Longboard, dallen and crofttk won't consider my post an intrusion.. <-QUOTE}As I understand forum etiquette, that would be mostly up to dallen as it's "his" thread.

I think your information could be just the kind of thing Rilla could make use of at this point and something I couldn't have offered.:thumb:

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> For IFD: does that USB drive need to be formatted in FAT32 or doesn't that matter? <-QUOTE}wilbertnl, IFD reads NTFS fine in my experience. Technically, AFAIK, IFD either isn't running in DOS or else doesn't depend upon DOS for that function. I thought it was running in it's own boot environment.

dallen, DUDE !, I think you've been hitting the books kinda hard... You looked a good bit perkier in your earlier photo, if I might say so without giving offense. If I do offend, my apologies.

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> As I understand forum etiquette, that would be mostly up to dallen as it's "his" thread.

I think your information could be just the kind of thing Rilla could make use of at this point and something I couldn't have offered.:thumb: <-QUOTE}

Hi crofttk

I do hope the provided information may really help Rilla927!
Regards
Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> For IFD: does that USB drive need to be formatted in FAT32 or doesn't that matter?
I can imagine that IFD is able to create images of NTFS partitions, but need to store that in a dos accessible place? <-QUOTE}

Hi wilbertnl

I use a NTFS formatted USB drive and IFD works with it without any problems.
I have tested backup and restore operations more than a dozen times.
It works flawlessly!
Regards
Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> wilbertnl, IFD reads NTFS fine in my experience. Technically, AFAIK, IFD either isn't running in DOS or else doesn't dependent upon DOS that function. I thought it was running in it's own boot environment...
<-QUOTE}

Sorry, crofttk

I didn't see your post...
Regards
Rui

[dallen]

To address a few points in no particular order:

First, I do not consider any thread as belonging to a particular individual. Some consider the thread starter as the owner of the thread and I respect that logic. My view is that once a thread is started it becomes the possession and jointly held property of everyone that chooses to participate, all of which have an equal and undivided interest in it.
I do appreciate the consideration though.

OK...that's enough from my Property class. I didn't score very highly in that class anyway.

Second, Rui's observation and suggestion about powering off and on the USB drive is completely relevant and true. I think that you should try it, but that you will find it does not resolve your issue.

Third, NTFS and FAT32 is good thinking, but again, my opinion is that this is not what is contributing to the problem as IFD/IFW can work with either to the best of my knowledge.

Forth, are we having fun yet? I like trying to figure out these kinds of problems. It keeps things interesting. Rilla, you may not be having as much fun as the rest of us and I appreciate that.

Fifth, a old wise man once told me about a similar experience. The delima was that the system had some ports that were USB2.0 and some that were only USB1.1. Under these unique conditions, the program did not detect USB devices under a DOS based program. I do not know if this is occurring or not to be honest, but it sounds plausible.

Finally, my suggestion is, as it often is with computers, when you cannot find a solution to the problem, try finding a comparable work-around. The old wise man finally got his external device to be recognized by using firewire (IEEE 1394). If it is possible, you should try that Rilla.

If this is not feasible, then we will have to go a different direction. I will say that when you made the comment
{QUOTE-> The reason I mentioned the Whitepaper was because I originally had a problem "not being able to store from a USB External". <-QUOTE}
it made me think that the problem may not be with IFD recognizing your USB device, but rather your system in general recognizing it. If that is the case, then you may have left the dallen can help you zone.

I am always willing to contact you via telephone or let you contact me if you prefer, although at this point it may not be necessary. Also, I realize that some people get creaped out about the whole idea of contacting someone from the evil internet. I contact Peter2150 occassionally and he can attest that I haven't bitten him...yet. Myself, I may be naive, but my opinion is that I am pretty tough (for a pocket protector wearing geek anyway). Besides, if someone is able to make it past the hounds and my personal bodyguards, the gold plated 45s have a tendency disuade the bad guys. If not it does slow'em down a bit.

[Rilla927]

@Crofttk

{QUOTE-> BUT, all this does is show that your hardware is capable within Windows -- at least it eliminates some of the wild goose chasing you could get into. <-QUOTE} Good

@Wilbertnl

{QUOTE-> I can imagine that IFD is able to create images of NTFS partitions, but need to store that in a dos accessible place? <-QUOTE} Yes.

@Rui

{QUOTE-> they have been trying to help you in a hard and quite dedicated way. <-QUOTE} Yes they have! They all are good troops.

{QUOTE-> I have found that sometimes IFD fails to see the external USB drive. When this happens, switching the USB drive off and on again solves the problem. After this operation, IFD does recognize the external USD drive. <-QUOTE} Thanks very much for your voice. I will try that and see if it works and thanks for the links.


Well fella's!

I'm gonna try this again and will try what Rui said with the drive. Will ley you all know what happens, okay.

A BIG THANKS to everyone that has offered help, you guys are the BEST!

[Rilla927]

Dallen!

what happen to you? Did you fall by the wayside?;)

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Dallen!

what happen to you? Did you fall by the wayside?;) <-QUOTE}
Rilla927,
I don't know what you mean.

If this is another comment regarding the change of the mood in my avatar, it is because I am a little upset. My avatar is a photo of the great basketball coach Bob Knight, for all of you non-basketball fans out there (if there is such a thing and I cannot imagine there would be).

Call me a nerd, but I have different photos of Coach Knight with various expressions. I try to match my avatars mood with my own, mainly because I am trapped here in law school prison and these forums are my way to relax.

crofttk,
You had asked about my avatar and I forgot to respond. It has changed because another forum member pissed me off a little. A particular forum member, who will remain anonymous, decided to unnecessarily comment about my signature in a different thread. I guess the fact that I list my educational background makes him so uncomfortable that he felt compelled to harass me publicly. Fortunately, the great Wilders moderators saved him from public humiliation by removing most of his comments before I had a chance to read them. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...crofttk,
You had asked about my avatar and I forgot to respond. It has changed because another forum member pissed me off a little. A particular forum member, who will remain anonymous, decided to unnecessarily comment about my signature in a different thread. I guess the fact that I list my educational background makes him so uncomfortable that he felt compelled to harass me publicly. Fortunately, the great Wilders moderators saved him from public humiliation by removing most of his comments before I had a chance to read them. Nevertheless, thank you for your concern. <-QUOTE}:D Haaah ! I don't know why I have to deliberately remind myself that many people wouldn't post their own photo as an avatar; after all, I've been using my own for about two months now !;) I'm glad to read that you're otherwise doing well. Best of luck with your studies !

Let me make it clear that I do respect your educational background with no trace of fear or rancor and that you have every right to be proud of it. However, I do feel a little easier that you appear to have taken my comment in a good way. I'd hate to have my geekness challenged in a nefarious and manipulative way, to the edge of what's legal, no less !:P (I hope that at least you get my drift.;D)

P.S. I guess it's blatantly obvious that I'm not much of a basketball fan.:-[

[dallen]

crofttk,
Some people elect to allow their education to be know only through their dealings and elect not to display it. I fully understand that stance. Like many things in life there are positives and negatives about each.

As for you, it seems that you have been well educated, either formally or informally. You've at least done your fair share of reading, at least your vocabulary seems to indicate that you have.

We seem to have mutual respect for one another and that is what it's all about.

[Rilla927]

Dallen,

good to see you back:)

There is nothing wrong with you stating your education and you should be proud of it. I would. I think he was intimidated which put him in his state of ignorance.

[Rilla927]

Well everyone,

It failed again! It almost made it to the last step when I tried restoring with IFW. After I chose source and destination etc, I come to a screen with some options:

Validate (was checked)
Keep Restore HD (unchecked)
Expand (unchecked)
Set Active (unchecked)
Write MBR Code (unchecked)

Leave at End (MB) _______

If anyone can comment on something that should be checked, please let me know.

The Error: Unable to obtain a lock on drive C:

I don't understand this because Phylock is installed.

It actually started the restore process before the error came up which left Windows unusable.

I had to restore from my DVD.

Ever since I retsored the USB Drive is not recognized at all in the device manager- it says unknown device.

[dallen]

Do you have Windows XP? If so, do you have SP1 and SP2 installed with Windows XP? If so, try right-clicking on each of the USB entries in your device manager and selecting "update driver." If it asks you in you want to allow a connection to the internet to search for the driver, say yes. Make a note of whether or not any of the items actually update and let me know.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Do you have Windows XP? If so, do you have SP1 and SP2 installed with Windows XP? If so, try right-clicking on each of the USB entries in your device manager and selecting "update driver." If it asks you in you want to allow a connection to the internet to search for the driver, say yes. Make a note of whether or not any of the items actually update and let me know. <-QUOTE}
I have XP Home SP2.

It did update the driver for the 2.0, driver date 6/1/2002.

The other three there were no updates available.

Thanks Dallen,

my external now shows up in device manager;)

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...As for you, it seems that you have been well educated, either formally or informally. You've at least done your fair share of reading, at least your vocabulary seems to indicate that you have.

We seem to have mutual respect for one another and that is what it's all about. <-QUOTE}You bet, and thanks for your kind words. Now I'll have to try not be too obvious with the "flowerdy words", as Festus (of Gunsmoke) would have called them, out of modesty.

I had four years of schooling in engineering (a little bit of psych and anthy on the side) and then followed the money trail. I often envy those who've continued their schooling beyond the point that I did but, on the other hand, that has given me some extra time to raise a family and do some reading on my own, some serious but most not.

In any event, may the learning continue for all of us !

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> In any event, may the learning continue for all of us ! <-QUOTE}Amen to that.
{QUOTE-> ...then followed the money trail. I often envy those who've continued their schooling beyond the point that I did <-QUOTE}You should not envy us perpetual students. Academia definately has it positives, but being a broke-ass student while many of your friends are making $$$ sucks. crofttk, if that money trail gets to densely covered and you need someone to help you remove some of the undergrowth, keep a certain ramen noodle eatin' folk in mind, will ya?

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Well everyone,

It failed again! It almost made it to the last step when I tried restoring with IFW. After I chose source and destination etc, I come to a screen with some options:

Validate (was checked)
Keep Restore HD (unchecked)
Expand (unchecked)
Set Active (unchecked)
Write MBR Code (unchecked)

Leave at End (MB) _______

If anyone can comment on something that should be checked, please let me know.

The Error: Unable to obtain a lock on drive C:

I don't understand this because Phylock is installed.

<-QUOTE}

Hi Rilla927

Did you try restoring with IFW? Or is this a typo and you mean IFD instead?
The error you mention "Unable to obtain a lock on drive C:" occurs only when working in a Windows environment. So I assume you tried restoring using IFW.

Restore operations must be performed using Image for DOS (IFD), not Image for Windows (IFW).

Hope this helps.

Regards

Rui

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rilla927

Did you try restoring with IFW? Or is this a typo and you mean IFD instead?
The error you mention "Unable to obtain a lock on drive C:" occurs only when working in a Windows environment. So I assume you tried restoring using IFW.

Restore operations must be performed using Image for DOS (IFD), not Image for Windows (IFW).

Hope this helps.

Regards

Rui <-QUOTE}
Rilla927, please clarify what exactly you meant.

Rui,
You are exactly right; however, to the best of my knowledge, a restorationi can be performed with either IFD or IFW. I could be wrong because I almost solely use IFD.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...to the best of my knowledge, a restorationi can be performed with either IFD or IFW... <-QUOTE}That's also my understanding. BUT, I'm personally leery of restoring my Windows system partition with Windows in operation. For me, that applies for ANY software. I wouldn't hesitate to restore a data partition with IFW, assuming it got a proper lock when needed, but the system partition seems riskier.

I guess if Rilla's USB Drive isn't getting picked up in IFD, short of fixing that, there's not much choice but to use IFW for restoring.

Someone else posted the same caution a month or two ago -- don't recall if it was you, dallen, or Peter2150, or someone else.

[dallen]

crofttk,
Don't get me wrong. I absolutely agree with your conclusion that restoring from DOS is superior. Personally, I will not rely on a Windows-based image. Unnecessarily risky. Rilla either needs to get Image for DOS to recognize the USB or try to use Firewire. If Rilla cannot accomplish either of these, then Rilla does not have adequate protection. Period.

[Peter2150]

Problem is if you Image the whole disk including the OS, you can't restore from Windows. I don't have much luck on this machine with any of the recovery CD's if I just go USB. Fortunately the Firewire works like a champ.

Pete

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Rilla927, please clarify what exactly you meant.

Rui,
You are exactly right; however, to the best of my knowledge, a restorationi can be performed with either IFD or IFW. I could be wrong because I almost solely use IFD. <-QUOTE}

@dallen: After perusing the IFW User's Guide, I have to agree with you: you can perform a restore using either IFD or IFW. But, in the latter case, "you cannot restore over the partition that contains the source image file (from the User's Guide)".
For safety reasons, I prefer to restore using only IFD, but I use IFW to perform backup operations, usually to an external USB drive. It is much faster.
Backup time using IFD: 90 minutes (writing and validating image);
Backup time using IFW: 30 minutes (writing and validating image).
I suggest you give IFW a try concerning backuo. Feel free to PM me about this, if you want to ask some questions.

@Rilla927:
If you got the mentioned error, check your PHYLock Settings and enable these items, checking the corresponding box:
Use If Locking Fails
Use and Release Lock.

Regards

Rui

[Rilla927]

@Dallen & Rui

I tried restoring with IFW because in IFD it cannot find the USB Drive at all. My goal is to restore C drive image from external USB.

Yes, you can restore with either one IFW or IFD. I prefer IFD if I can get it to recognize the USB, but I don't think that's ever gonna happen.

Just a side note: I even tried clicking on file in IFD just to see what would happen and it balked at me and said "you can only use this in a DOS Enviroment". It sounds like it doesn't even know when it is in DOS at all.

Rui, the settings you mentioned for Phylock were checked already.

[Rui]

Hi Rilla927

Please do check your PHYLock settings and enable them according to my previous post.
See if this solves your problem and do not forget to tell us how it went.
Regards
Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> @Dallen & Rui

Just a side note: I even tried clicking on file in IFD just to see what would happen and it balked at me and said "you can only use this in a DOS Enviroment". It sounds like it doesn't even know when it is in DOS at all.
<-QUOTE}


Hi Rilla

That already happened to me too.
Trial solutions using IFD:
1. Restart your computer
2. When presented with the screen "Restore From" choose "Partition" and then select your USB drive. You should then see the listing of the available IMG files in your USB drive. Type the appropriate file name and press enter.
That should fix it.
At least it functions with my system.
Regards
Rui

[Rilla927]

The program came by default with these settings. I never changed anything.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rilla

That already happened to me too.
Trial solutions using IFD:
1. Restart your computer
2. When presented with the screen "Restore From" choose "Partition" and then select your USB drive. You should then see the listing of the available IMG files in your USB drive. Type the appropriate file name and press enter.
That should fix it.
At least it functions with my system.
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE}
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I should choose BckUp.IMG.

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Correct me if I'm wrong, but I should choose BckUp.IMG. <-QUOTE}

YES!!
Regards
Rui

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Problem is if you Image the whole disk including the OS, you can't restore from Windows. <-QUOTE}

I'm sorry Peter2150 I didn't see your post until now. Ran right past it.

I was under the impression that would apply only if you were trying to restore from the partion you took the very image of.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> YES!!
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE} I will give it another try. If you don't hear from me for a while, you'll know I had to restore from disk.

Thanks

[Rilla927]

I used IFD.

The error is the same as I always get: No usable HD found!

Well everyone, you all put forth your best efforts and I thank you for that. I think I will have to just stick with the DVD thing for this laptop. I don't know what else we could do!

Now, when I get my desktop back I know that it recognizes the USB in DOS. As some of you know I chose the wrong file when I was trying to restore from the external to my desktop that's why it didn't work. That part is solved now, so something did get accomplished out of all of this;D

People like all of you are what makes this forum such an asset:thumb:

[Rui]

Rilla927

Are you connecting your USB drive through a HUB or directly to an USB port located at the computer?
If using a hub, try connecting your USB drive directly to the computer USB port.
Regards
Rui

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> I used IFD.

The error is the same as I always get: No usable HD found! <-QUOTE}And did you try powering the drive down and then back up while still in IFD as Rui suggested earlier ?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Rilla927

Are you connecting your USB drive through a HUB or directly to an USB port located at the computer?
If using a hub, try connecting your USB drive directly to the computer USB port.
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE}
Yes, it is connect directly to computer. No hub.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> And did you try powering the drive down and then back up while still in IFD as Rui suggested earlier ? <-QUOTE} I tried that yesterday a few times and I got the same old error message.

I didn't try today because it didn't work yesterday. I suppose I could try again!

[crofttk]

Ah, well, OK, I didn't realize you actually tried that yesterday. I guess trying again wouldn't hurt but if nothing's changed, it probably still won't work.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Ah, well, OK, I didn't realize you actually tried that yesterday. I guess trying again wouldn't hurt but if nothing's changed, it probably still won't work. <-QUOTE}

Hi Crofttk,

No dice! I the on and off thing six times. It just won't see it.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> If you only have USB1.1, then you will not be able to use Image for DOS to backup to external hard drive via USB, to the best of my knowledge. <-QUOTE}
This thread made me a little bit curious about IFD, so I did a little bit of reading and found this information in the manual:

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/images/ifd-usb.png

I wonder if there is some solution for Rila927 in the ifd.ini file?

[Rui]

Hi Rilla297

From the IFW User's Guide:
If you wish to restore your Windows partition, you cannot boot into that copy of Windows to perform the restore. You must instead run Image for DOS, and restore it from there. (page19)

I am going to peruse the IFD User's Guide. Maybe I can find something interesting and useful, concerning the recognizing of your external USB drive,

I will be back.

Regards

Rui

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ..I wonder if there is some solution for Rila927 in the ifd.ini file? <-QUOTE}Me too. That's why I posted this link: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=251 back in post #58 of this thread.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> Just a side note: I even tried clicking on file in IFD just to see what would happen and it balked at me and said "you can only use this in a DOS Enviroment". It sounds like it doesn't even know when it is in DOS at all. <-QUOTE}
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=236
http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=108
If I understand the information right, then you have two options to create a bootable IFD floppy.
One is by the utility makedisk and the other is by creating your own DOS bootable floppy and then copy image.exe and cdboot.f35 to that DOS floppy.
It looks like a makedisk flop has some restrictions, try the second method to create your bootable flop and start IFD with the command a:\image after you start from that floppy.

OK, I tested method two and the 'file' options works then. But it doesn't help much, because it doesn't recognize NTFS partitions.
You have to select partition.

Anyway, it looks like this setup needs more fine tuning with editing of the ini file or dos environment to get it working for Rilla927.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Me too. That's why I posted this link: http://www.terabyteunlimited.com/kb/article.php?id=251 back in post #58 of this thread. <-QUOTE}

I did look at this. I don't understand what exactly you have to do, it was CHINESE to me:o:o

I don't have a floppy drive.

[crofttk]

You simply type the line UHCI=1 into the IFD.INI file and save it to the media you are booting from when you run IFD. It provides USB 1.1 service in IFD. If you try it and it works, then you have narrowed the problem down to IFD not seeing your device as USB2 instead of it not seeing your drive at all.

Alternatively, do it the way the article I linked to tells you -- simply put the lines shown, with the "SET" command in an autoexec.bat on the DOS boot media you run IFD from.

ETA: Notice I said boot media, NOT boot floppy.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> I don't have a floppy drive. <-QUOTE}
So, do you boot from USB drive or CD or what? Anything else than your current Windows installation, right?

[Rui]

Hi Rilla279

There is no problem if you don't have a floppy.
By the way, wilbertnl anticipated me...
See his post # 120.
You should run MAKEDISK:EXE, and when asked if you want to add lines to IFD.INI file just type UHCI=1 at Line 1
Like the image shows.
Then, create your IFD boot disk as CD.
See how it goes.
Regards
Rui

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> You simply type the line UHCI=1 into the IFD.INI file and save it to the media you are booting from when you run IFD <-QUOTE} I did the ini file thing on a new disk and still got the same error. No usable HD found!

{QUOTE-> It provides USB 1.1 service in IFD. If you try it and it works, then you have narrowed the problem down to IFD not seeing your device as USB2 instead of it not seeing your drive at all. <-QUOTE} I agree.


{QUOTE-> Alternatively, do it the way the article I linked to tells you -- simply put the lines shown, with the "SET" command in an autoexec.bat on the DOS boot media you run IFD from.

ETA: Notice I said boot media, NOT boot floppy. <-QUOTE} I want to make sure I understand correctly.

Your first paragraph is one way to accomplish what I needed to do.

Your second paragraph about the autoexec.bat is another way to accomplish also, no!

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> So, do you boot from USB drive or CD or what? Anything else than your current Windows installation, right? <-QUOTE}
I have it set to my optical drive for CD/DVD'S.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> No usable HD found! <-QUOTE}
Did you try both HD and HD (bios) ?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rilla279

There is no problem if you don't have a floppy.
By the way, wilbertnl anticipated me...
See his post # 120.
You should run MAKEDISK:EXE, and when asked if you want to add lines to IFD.INI file just type UHCI=1 at Line 1
Like the image shows.
Then, create your IFD boot disk as CD.
See how it goes.
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE}
The screen shot was a big help, thanks.

I still got the same error.

I just remembered...... there was a error right after I restarted from trying IFD, it was Zone Alarm FW asking about CONTROL.EXE (Windows Control Panel) wanting to use rundll.exe (something in that order) and I clicked deny because I thought something fishy was going on.

After I clicked the deny, the error said something about a device cannot find path. I hope this isn't related to my USB issue. I have seen it before at times, but never thought about until now.

I guess the only person/people that would know if this is related would be using ZA FW.

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> This thread made me a little bit curious about IFD, so I did a little bit of reading and found this information in the manual:

http://www.geocities.com/wilbertnl/images/ifd-usb.png

I wonder if there is some solution for Rila927 in the ifd.ini file? <-QUOTE}
wilbertnl,
You are a friggin' genius. Why is it that the majority of the time when issues occur, the answers are found in the user guide??? Why is it that users, especially us men, refuse at all costs to read a user guide?

Good job wilbertnl!!!

I must say that I have never messed with this stuff, but I am in learning mode now. I eagerly await what follows.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Did you try both HD and HD (bios) ? <-QUOTE}
Which program are you referring too? IFD or IFW.

I used IFD. Selected Restore Image, selected Partion, then USB2 HD, and that's when I get error (after I choose USB2) "No usable HD Found".

[Rilla927]

I just discovered by opening "My Computer" that the USB isn't showing up. Remember I denied that pop up from ZA FW.

The drive was there before I restarted.

Could this be the culprit? What do you guys think?

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> I just discovered by opening "My Computer" that the USB isn't showing up. Remember I denied that pop up from ZA FW.

The drive was there before I restarted.

Could this be the culprit? What do you guys think? <-QUOTE}

Rilla 927

It's possible...
UnfortunatelY, I am not familiar with ZA.
Why not trying to spot that rule you have made for control.exe and remove it?
Then reboot and see what happens.
Or go to Control Panel > System > Device Manager and check for hardware changes. See it your USD external HD gets recognized.

Regards

Rui

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Rilla 927

It's possible...
UnfortunatelY, I am not familiar with ZA.
Why not trying to spot that rule you have made for control.exe and remove it?
Then reboot and see what happens.
Or go to Control Panel > System > Device Manager and check for hardware changes. See it your USD external HD gets recognized.

Regards

Rui <-QUOTE} There is no actual rule currently, it is just set to "ask". I noticed when ever the USB is on and I restart it's not recognized in device manager or my computer.

I have to shut it off and turn it back on before it will be recognized again.

I'm waiting to see that pop up with ZA again and this time I will "allow" it and see what happens.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ....Your first paragraph is one way to accomplish what I needed to do.

Your second paragraph about the autoexec.bat is another way to accomplish also, no! <-QUOTE}Yes ! Errrr, I mean Correct ! you've got it Rilla.

[Longboard]

@Rilla: you fixed yet?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> @Rilla: you fixed yet? <-QUOTE}
Hi Longboard! How are ya:)

No not fixed yet:'(

For some darn reason DOS nor the Bios can recognize this drive.

I seen your post on the "Upgrade Policies" and was wondering the same thing. I would always forget to email them about it. Did they explain?

[dallen]

Rilla,
Have you tried going the Firewire route? or is that not an option?

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Rilla,
Have you tried going the Firewire route? or is that not an option? <-QUOTE} I did take a look behind the external and there is only one place for power and that's the USB. I was kind of surprised!

[dallen]

I'm confused. You said, "only one place for power," but usually external HDs have two cords, one for power and one for connection. Some externals are firewire compatible and some are not. Which brand/model do you have? I think it is the case that a simple cable change is all that is necessary to switch between using USB and Firewire. This may be simpler than trying to resolve the USB issue.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I'm confused. You said, "only one place for power," but usually external HDs have two cords, one for power and one for connection. <-QUOTE} No, you are right! I mean't one (outlet) for power. How do you know if it has Firewire? I see the area where the USB power cord connects and that's it. There is no where else for you to plug any type of power cord in that's different from the USB.
{QUOTE-> Some externals are firewire compatible and some are not. Which brand/model do you have? I think it is the case that a simple cable change is all that is necessary to switch between using USB and Firewire. This may be simpler than trying to resolve the USB issue. <-QUOTE} Buslink Certified Hi-Speed USB 2.0.

[dallen]

It would have "FE" or "FS" in the model number if it was firewire compatible, at least according to the Buslink website.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> It would have "FE" or "FS" in the model number if it was firewire compatible, at least according to the Buslink website. <-QUOTE}

Firewire plugs are very different. If it is USB and Firewire compatible it would have plugs for both.

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> For some darn reason DOS nor the Bios can recognize this drive. <-QUOTE}
Hi Rilla927
Do you have your motherboard manual?
Can you peruse it and see if there is an option to make it recognize your USB external HD? Maybe it is a SATA drive?
Also, can you see if there are any available upgrades for your BIOS? I mean firmware.
Regards
Rui

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Firewire plugs are very different. If it is USB and Firewire compatible it would have plugs for both. <-QUOTE}Learn something new every day. Thanks Pete.

Image For DOS saved my but again today. Because of some hard-core experimenting with anti-virus software, I hosed my system so badly that First Defense got jacked up. Image For DOS to the rescue. Now I'm back.

Rilla,
I really hope that we can get this figured out for you. For this very reason.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> It would have "FE" or "FS" in the model number if it was firewire compatible, at least according to the Buslink website. <-QUOTE}
Dallen,

neither one!

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Firewire plugs are very different. If it is USB and Firewire compatible it would have plugs for both. <-QUOTE}
Thanks Peter,

I was going to say I don't remember getting two plugs.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rilla927
Do you have your motherboard manual? <-QUOTE} I would have to look.
{QUOTE-> Maybe it is a SATA drive? <-QUOTE} Honestly, I don't positively remember, but I don't think it is Sata.
{QUOTE-> Also, can you see if there are any available upgrades for your BIOS? <-QUOTE}
I will have to check.
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE}

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Learn something new every day. Thanks Pete.

Image For DOS saved my but again today. Because of some hard-core experimenting with anti-virus software, I hosed my system so badly that First Defense got jacked up. Image For DOS to the rescue. Now I'm back. <-QUOTE} That's one thing that I can say, IFD, IFW etc are very reliable programs and I'm glad I have them. Despite my situation with the external, I don't blame IFD etc for not performing because it's not the softwares fault, there is an under lying answer some where that is responsible. We will eventually find it.

{QUOTE-> Rilla,
I really hope that we can get this figured out for you. For this very reason. <-QUOTE} Amen, Dallen! At least I do have the disks if needed until we can get to the bottom of this;)

[Rilla927]

Hi Gang!

just wondering if anyone has tried the new version of FD yet? And how you like it?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Gang!

just wondering if anyone has tried the new version of FD yet? And how you like it? <-QUOTE}
New version? AFAIK Version 1.05 build 166 is the latest version and that's the one I have on my computer. No updatings since I bought it.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Hi Gang!

just wondering if anyone has tried the new version of FD yet? And how you like it? <-QUOTE}I'll wait until Raxco releases the new version available at Leapfrog. No hurry here.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> New version? AFAIK Version 1.05 build 166 is the latest version and that's the one I have on my computer. No updatings since I bought it. <-QUOTE} I caught something a few days ago in this forum about a new version or build something in that order and there was a link to LeapFrog. Don't remember exactly.

Anyway! How do you like FD? I'm definitely going to purchase this program. I just have to wait to get puter back from Depot.

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> I'll wait until Raxco releases the new version available at Leapfrog. No hurry here. <-QUOTE}
Hi Crofttk! How are you!

I guess it's always good to wait so you can see what happens.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Hi Crofttk! How are you!

I guess it's always good to wait so you can see what happens. <-QUOTE}Well, the main reason to wait is that Raxco won't support it until they've tested it out and released it through their own website. Peter2150 made that point in the other thread discussing it and I tend to agree -- at least I haven't lost patience yet.;)

[Rilla927]

{QUOTE-> Well, the main reason to wait is that Raxco won't support it until they've tested it out and released it through their own website. Peter2150 made that point in the other thread discussing it and I tend to agree <-QUOTE} That's good that they do that. It's really nice to see a vendor that will do that rather than trying to hurry the next version out. From what I can see, their support is excellent.

It's going to be interesting when I get FD!

{QUOTE-> at least I haven't lost patience yet.;) <-QUOTE} Key word is "yet";D

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I caught something a few days ago in this forum about a new version or build something in that order and there was a link to LeapFrog. Don't remember exactly. <-QUOTE}
That version is a digital mutation of the actual build 166. I can't install a lab rat on my computer.
I only download from Raxco.

{QUOTE-> Anyway! How do you like FD? I'm definitely going to purchase this program. I just have to wait to get puter back from Depot. <-QUOTE}
So far so good. It never failed on me in normal circumstances.
1. The old and known bug, I found is harmless.
2. Defragging and snapshot activities at the same time can't be trusted, but that sounds normal to me.
You don't fool around with your harddisk, while a complete partition is copied or updated or archieved or restored or freezed.
That is asking for trouble and only nutty users will do that.

It works together with Acronis True Image, which also never failed on me in spite of all the wild stories about ATI.
The main disadvantage of FDISR (= space-eater) will be history very soon.
ATI and FDISR are the best decisions I made in 2006, I certainly don't regret the money, because they saved my computer
several times in MINUTES. Re-installing and re-configuring my computer took me HOURS in the past.
Separating my system and data partition was also a very good decision for me.

I still have to figure out, IN WHICH WAY(S), I will use FDISR on my computer, but that's not a problem.
The main advantage of FDISR are for me :

1. Speed, convenience, reliability and reassurance.
2. Refreshing snapshots.
3. Having at least ONE clean snapshot, I can depend on and that will be my primary snapshot.
4. Having several versions of my system partition. Something I never had in the past.
5. Trying new softwares in test snapshots with minimum risks.
6. Using frozen snapshots.
7. Although FD-ISR isn't a security software, you can use it as the fastest and completest scanner in the world.

All that in just ONE single software for $70, where only your own fantasy is the limit.
You don't meet such softwares every day. :)

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> That version is a digital mutation of the actual build 166. I can't install a lab rat on my computer.
I only download from Raxco. <-QUOTE}"Digital Mutation" ? LOL. That's a bizzarely derogatory term to use for it when you follow that with several paragraphs of how you use and like its predeccessor. You do realize this new version comes from the true authors of FDISR, don't you ? Of course you do ! You posted them a smiley !

Raxco will call it Build 169, unless I'm mistaken, in the near future, and be touting the enhanced functionality and improvements of it. I think "evolution" would be a more appropriate term.

{QUOTE-> ...All that in just ONE single software for $70, where only your own fantasy is the limit.
You don't meet such softwares every day. :) <-QUOTE}:o Look out ! You're gonna make dallen jealous !

[Peter2150]

Hi Erik

Be sure and understand the significance of the "Primary" snapshot, ie, that one that is there when you install FDISR. I had a long discussion with Jason who just recently left Raxco techsupport. The gist of it is this.

Say your "Primary" snapshot is your pristine system. But you work daily in another snapshot and that comes to be quite different then the Primary snapshot. Lets call that snapshot "Working". Should you decide to uninstall FDISR and remove all snapshots even though you do it from working what your system will end up being is what the "Primary" snapshot was.

Should anyone have facts counter to that I'd be interested in knowing.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> "Digital Mutation" ? LOL. That's a bizzarely derogatory term to use for it when you follow that with several paragraphs of how you use and like its predeccessor. <-QUOTE}
That's because I separate things from one another.

I can't use a beta version of a software, that is supposed to save my computer and I wouldn't be interested in a beta version of ATI either.
I like to say the same thing in different ways. Beta is so boring. ;D

On the other hand, I praise the final version in to heaven, but that's not the same version.
I didn't marry FDISR out of love, it's a marriage of convenience. :)

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Should you decide to uninstall FDISR and remove all snapshots even though you do it from working what your system will end up being is what the "Primary" snapshot was. <-QUOTE}
Really, Peter? I did not know this.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

AFAIK you can even delete/remove your primary snapshot, when your secondary snapshot is your active snapshot.
I can try it for real, if you want me to. ATI will save me anyway.

EDIT:
The bottom line is that the primary snapshot is just a snapshot like all your other snapshots.
You can't remove all of them, because your very last snapshot will be your active snapshot and you can't remove that one.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...I can't use a beta version of a software... <-QUOTE}Generally, I can't either, it can be too much of a pain in the ass. But "beta version" is a much fairer term than "digital mutation" which implies a certain degree of random and haphazard change. Perhaps it's just semantics/grammar again -- I'm not gonna lose any sleep over it, either way.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> AFAIK you can even delete/remove your primary snapshot, when your secondary snapshot is your active snapshot.
I can try it for real, if you want me to. ATI will save me anyway. <-QUOTE}

Erik that would be an excellent test. That way we'd know for sure.

Thanks


By the way what do you mean beta's are boring. Not if you are testing the right beta's. Try kernel mode software beta's. They can be quite an adventure. Wouldn't do it without FDISR for sure.

[Longboard]

I love the way these threads spin off into very useful tips tricks and high level experiences.

From the first post by dallen about FD and IFD I was thrilled to have all that I wanted in the two apps confirmed.

Then Rilla came in with a problem.

Have all you smarty-pants figured out what to do with that problem yet. :D

Rilla's problem has been a very interesting one so far and afaics remains shrouded in mystery.

Or have I had another brain flop :shifty:

Might need to gao back to the beginning and start a new thread for Rilla.

Lbd.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik that would be an excellent test. That way we'd know for sure. <-QUOTE}
Deleting a Primary Snapshot is possible just like any other snapshot and that was logical to me.
I had two snapshots :
1. Snapshot-01, my original primary snapshot
2. Snapshot-02, my working snapshot.

I took a backup with ATI first of course.
Snapshot-02 was already my active snapshot, so I deleted snapshot-01.
Then I rebooted in Snapshot-02, my only snapshot, everything was normal.
I recovered of course my original system partition, I still need my Snapshot-01 because it has my old security setup.

Why would there be a difference between the primary snapshot and the nine other snapshots?
The ACTIVE snapshot is the special one, not the primary snapshot.

Peter you can test this yourself without doing anything.
1. Boot in a snapshot, that is NOT your primary snapshot.

2. Click Actions/Remove Snapshot and the remove wizard will start.

3. Click on Next and FDISR will give you a list of snapshots that can be removed. (FDISR gives you NEVER a list of all snapshots, only the ones that are allowed for a specific function, in this case : remove, but that is also in case of copying or archiving, ... whatever.)

4. If your primary snapshot is on that list, you can remove it and that's your PROOF.

5. Close the wizard, if you don't want to go any further.

[Acadia]

Thanks, Erik, for testing this. 8)

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Then Rilla came in with a problem.

Have all you smarty-pants figured out what to do with that problem yet. :D

Rilla's problem has been a very interesting one so far and afaics remains shrouded in mystery.

Or have I had another brain flop :shifty:

Might need to gao back to the beginning and start a new thread for Rilla.

Lbd. <-QUOTE}
Can you summarize this problem, because I'm not going to translate all these posts of this thread.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I love the way these threads spin off into very useful tips tricks and high level experiences.

From the first post by dallen about FD and IFD I was thrilled to have all that I wanted in the two apps confirmed.

Then Rilla came in with a problem.

Have all you smarty-pants figured out what to do with that problem yet. :D

Rilla's problem has been a very interesting one so far and afaics remains shrouded in mystery.

Or have I had another brain flop :shifty:

Might need to gao back to the beginning and start a new thread for Rilla.

Lbd. <-QUOTE}

Hi Longboard

I think Rilla's proble maybe at a deadend. I know on my system I can't get to my external drives from DOS type recovery disks if I run them USB, but I can with Firewire. Fortunately my drives support both. With Just USB drives I'd be out of luck. It would take some changes to my box to rectify.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Longboard
I think Rilla's proble maybe at a deadend. I know on my system I can't get to my external drives from DOS type recovery disks if I run them USB, but I can with Firewire. Fortunately my drives support both. With Just USB drives I'd be out of luck. It would take some changes to my box to rectify. <-QUOTE}
I don't have my external harddisk yet, so I can't test anything.

[Peter2150]

Hi Erik

In response to your test of what I posted. Here is what I've noticed and wondered if it had any impact.

When I run Perfect Disk and just Analyze from my primary snapshot, I see my boot files, then the rest of them. When I boot to the secondary snapshot and do the same thing with PD I don't see the boot files, I just see the inactive first. Thats what made me wonder if all snapshots are created equal. I wonder how that would look if you removed the primary snapshot, and/or then unisntalled FDISR. I have to assume you are probably right. I might ask Raxco.

Pete

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Erik

In response to your test of what I posted. Here is what I've noticed and wondered if it had any impact.

When I run Perfect Disk and just Analyze from my primary snapshot, I see my boot files, then the rest of them. When I boot to the secondary snapshot and do the same thing with PD I don't see the boot files, I just see the inactive first. Thats what made me wonder if all snapshots are created equal. I wonder how that would look if you removed the primary snapshot, and/or then unisntalled FDISR. I have to assume you are probably right. I might ask Raxco.

Pete <-QUOTE}
If your primary snapshot was mentioned as a removable snapshot, it means that FDISR allows you to remove it.
All lists in each wizard contain only snapshots that are technical possible for a specific function. Any other snapshot doesn't appear in that list. The only thing you can do wrong is choosing a wrong snapshot, but that's a user mistake.

[Acadia]

I cannot remember who did this, I used the Wilder's Search feature but was unable to find it. I could swear that some time ago somebody tested this completely, by uninstalling FirstDefense while in another Snapshot other than the Primary. Everything went OK. He then reinstalled FD and everything was fine. I went crazy trying to find this but could not, but I could swear someone did this. :wacko:

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

Uninstalling FDISR Test

Situation :
Snapshot-01 = primary snapshot with ZAF + AVG as security setup.
Snapshot-02 = working snapshot with LnS + NOD32 as security setup.

Test-1 :
1. Snapshot-02 = Active Snapshot.
2. I uninstall FDISR only the program, not the snapshots.
3. I reboot and desktop = Snapshot-02 with LnS + NOD32 as security setup.
4. I reinstall FDISR and reboot.
5. I reboot in snapshot-02 everything was normal but my FDISR-icon was gone.
6. I reboot in snapshot-01 and desktop = Snapshot-01 with ZAF + AVG as security setup + FDISR-icon.
7. I reboot in snapshot-02 still without FDISR-icon.
Somehow the setting of icon in Tools/Option was changed into "No Tray Icon", I changed it back "Always Icon".
Everything back to normal.

Test-2 :
1. Snapshot-01 = Active Snapshot.
2. I uninstall FDISR only the program, not the snapshots.
3. I reboot and desktop = Snapshot-01 with ZAF + AVG as security setup.
4. I reinstall FDISR and reboot.
5. I reboot in snapshot-02 everything was normal and with FDISR-icon
6. I reboot in snapshot-01 and desktop = Snapshot-01 with ZAF + AVG as security setup.
7. I reboot in snapshot-02 and desktop = Snapshot-02 with LnS + NOD32 as security setup.

Conclusion :
When you UNINSTALL FDISR, your ACTIVE snapshot is your NEW desktop and FDISR is gone of course.
So FDISR doesn't keep the primary snapshot like Peter thought, it keeps the ACTIVE snapshot.

There was a little trouble with the FDISR-icon in the first test, but not in the second test. I don't have an explanation for that, but it was easily fixed.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> I cannot remember who did this, I used the Wilder's Search feature but was unable to find it. I could swear that some time ago somebody tested this completely, by uninstalling FirstDefense while in another Snapshot other than the Primary. Everything went OK. He then reinstalled FD and everything was fine. I went crazy trying to find this but could not, but I could swear someone did this. :wacko:

Acadia <-QUOTE}
AcadiaIt wasn't this one was it ? http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=747738#post747738
If you referred to my comment near the end, I was relying on memory at the time so an up to date test is always great to hear about. Good work, ErikAlbert.

Here's a thread where we got into discussing defragmenting with PerfectDisk from different FDISR snapshots: http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=633373#post633373

[Peter2150]

That's great Erik. I was given bad information at the time, and am glad it was corrected. It will be interesting to get the response from Raxco.

Surely removing the snapshots wouldn't make any difference.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> That's great Erik. I was given bad information at the time, and am glad it was corrected. It will be interesting to get the response from Raxco.

Surely removing the snapshots wouldn't make any difference. <-QUOTE}
Yes I'm also INTERESTED in Raxco response.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> AcadiaIt wasn't this one was it ? http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=747738#post747738 <-QUOTE}
Hmmmm, possibly, but I thought that it was longer ago than last month; don't know.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

So the moral of this test is :
When you want to get rid of FDISR, the snapshot you want to keep as your desktop after uninstalling FDISR must be your ACTIVE snapshot.

Of course you must be a moron when you want to get rid of FDISR. ;D

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE->

Of course you must be a moron when you want to get rid of FDISR. ;D <-QUOTE}

ROFL. Truer words were never spoken.!!

[Peter2150]

Heard back from Raxco and they confirmed what Erik's testing revealed. I was previously mis informed.

According to them results would have been the same even if Erik had removed the snapshots and uninstalled.

To reiterate.

If you are in a secondary snapshot, and remove FDISR including snapshots, then the secondary snapshot is now your computer, and

If you are in a secondary snapshot, and delete the primary, then the remaining snapshot, is now your primary, and you could uninstall FDISR with no issues.

Like Erik said though, why would you.

Good testing Erik and again thanks.

Pete

[Acadia]

:thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

Thanks to everyone who either tested this, or contacted Raxco ... even though I have absolutely no intention of uninstalling FirstDefense, unless it's to upgrade to a new version! 8)

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

No need to thank me, but thanks anyway. After all I also like to know these things IN ADVANCE and not afterwards.
The fact that Raxco confirmed it, is reassuring for all of us, including me.
Having Peter as a direct contact with Raxco is certainly an advantage for me.
Calling Raxco is impossible for me and even when I was able to call, I still would have a language problem. I can write/read English, but I'm not so good in speaking and understanding it, that's too fast for me. So we all need eachother.

[crofttk]

And that's what makes the world go 'round.:thumb:

[Peter2150]

Yes indeed Wilders is a special place. Fun,learning, and helping.

Pete