FD-ISR & Ace Utilities

[ErikAlbert]

This is what the registry cleaner of ACE Utilities reports after installing FirstDefense-ISR, including a primary and secondary snapshot, in other words a full install.
These registries are supposed to be removed.

[Begin of report]
Report Created on 24 May 2006, 11:22 AM by AU Version 3.0.0.4038

Header 1: Location
Header 2: SubKey
Header 3: Entry/Name
Header 4: Data
Header 5: Reason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles
$ISRBIN
C:\$ISR\0\$ISRBIN
[Invalid Path: 'Data' Column]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HKEY_CURRENT_USER
Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.arx
.arx
{KEY}
[Empty Key]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 2 item(s)
[End of report]

It's depressing when even the good guys start removing eachother. :'(

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> This is what the registry cleaner of ACE Utilities reports after installing FirstDefense-ISR, including a primary and secondary snapshot, in other words a full install.
These registries are supposed to be removed.

[Begin of report]
Report Created on 24 May 2006, 11:22 AM by AU Version 3.0.0.4038

Header 1: Location
Header 2: SubKey
Header 3: Entry/Name
Header 4: Data
Header 5: Reason
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE
System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles
$ISRBIN
C:\$ISR\0\$ISRBIN
[Invalid Path: 'Data' Column]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
HKEY_CURRENT_USER
Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.arx
.arx
{KEY}
[Empty Key]
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Total 2 item(s)
[End of report]

It's depressing when even the good guys start removing eachother. :'( <-QUOTE}

Are you talking about ACE utilities. I'd be real careful about what you do with registry cleaning vs FDISR. Don't know about the 2nd key, but the first for sure shouldn't be removed.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> This is what the registry cleaner of ACE Utilities reports after [b]installing[b] FirstDefense-ISR, including a primary and secondary snapshot, in other words a [b]full install[b].
These registries are supposed to be removed.... <-QUOTE}Who says they should be removed ? Ace Utilities ? How could THEY know ?

I don't think EITHER ONE of those keys should be removed as a result of installation. They both perform definite functions.

[ErikAlbert]

Well it shows definitely, how dangerous registry cleaners are for newbies and this is a beautiful example.
That's why I'm looking for a registry cleaner with an IGNORE function.
Ace Utilities has one, but I couldn't find a function in Ace Utilities to UNDO an ignored registry.
(arx = extension of an archieved snapshot)

EDIT:
I'm going to keep that report. Each time somebody is looking for a safe registry cleaner, I will show him an example of how 'safe' registry cleaners are. ::)

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Well it shows definitely, how dangerous registry cleaners are for newbies and this is a beautiful example.
That's why I'm looking for a registry cleaner with an IGNORE function.
Ace Utilities has one, but I couldn't find a function in Ace Utilities to UNDO an ignored registry.
(arx = extension of an archieved snapshot)

EDIT:
I'm going to keep that report. Each time somebody is looking for a safe registry cleaner, I will show him an example of how 'safe' registry cleaners are. ::) <-QUOTE}

Hi Erik

I use Regsupreme Pro, and it is pretty good, have never seen it flag those keys. it does have an excellent exclude function, which resides between my chair and keyboard.

Pete

[TonyW]

RegSeeker flags certain keys, but these can be excluded. These are what I had to add when I use the program:

2|SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles
2|SYSTEM\ControlSet001\Services\ISRService
2|SYSTEM\ControlSet004\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles
2|SYSTEM\ControlSet004\Services\ISRService
2|SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles
2|SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\ISRService

Incidentally, I believe PDUnmovable relates to PerfectDisk I think.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Erik

I use Regsupreme Pro, and it is pretty good, have never seen it flag those keys. it does have an excellent exclude function, which resides between my chair and keyboard.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Can RegSupreme Pro ignore a group of selected registries in one hit or do you have to ignore one-by-one ?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> RegSeeker flags certain keys, but these can be excluded. These are what I had to add when I use the program: <-QUOTE}
I have used RegSeeker and took a very good look at its exclude function.
Very amateuristic. It's just an ascii file that can be read with notepad.
It's not even a database like in most good registry cleaners.
RegSeeker is very aggressive too, its only advantage is being free of charge and that's it.

[crofttk]

My choice is jv16 power tools 2006 for a registry cleaner -- same thing as RegSupreme Pro, Pete's choice, insofar as registry cleaning (which you can see here: http://www.macecraft.com/). I let it run on the "Aggressive" setting and then review what it's come up with before letting it clean up -- haven't had any problems with it yet.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> My choice is jv16 power tools 2006 for a registry cleaner -- same thing as RegSupreme Pro, Pete's choice, insofar as registry cleaning (which you can see here: http://www.macecraft.com/). I let it run on the "Aggressive" setting and then review what it's come up with before letting it clean up -- haven't had any problems with it yet. <-QUOTE}
JV16 has an ignore function, but only one by one, not in group.

Ace Utilities has a good ignore function, but I couldn't find how to undo it.

I couldn't find an ignore function in RegSupremePro, I must be blind.

[Perman]

Hi, there are some good and reliable reg cleaners out there, u just have to find them. From my own experience(daily); i use FD-ISR for some time, and have registry cleaners such as Registry Mechanic; Tune up Utilities; I use these reg cleaners for daily cleaning job, and have NOT encountered ANY issue with FD-ISR. Ace utilites has earned high marks in general, perhaps its reg cleaner has not lived up to THAT expectation!:-*

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> JV16 has an ignore function, but only one by one, not in group..... <-QUOTE}Well.... the significance of that perhaps depends on how skilled you are in sorting, mousing, and keyboarding.;D

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Well.... the significance of that perhaps depends on how skilled you are in sorting, mousing, and keyboarding.;D <-QUOTE}
Has nothing to do with it. If you can remove registries in group, why not ignore in group. I just can't find what I want as usual.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Can RegSupreme Pro ignore a group of selected registries in one hit or do you have to ignore one-by-one ? <-QUOTE}

Erik

I am not sure you caught what I said the exclude function was. Tis ME.:D

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik

I am not sure you caught what I said the exclude function was. Tis ME.:D <-QUOTE}
Right, after reading it back, I understand you now, but that isn't what I want. :)

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Has nothing to do with it. If you can remove registries in group, why not ignore in group. I just can't find what I want as usual. <-QUOTE}Well, as usual, you're being pretty picky, Erik, ;D but that's your right and not for me to criticize.

My point was meant to complement Peter's insofar as I find it sufficient for my purposes to examine what the registry cleaner has flagged and, usually, through judiciously juggling the sort column and orders, I can use the shift and ctrl keys and a mouse to implement all the group excludes I need to. So, while a blanket statement about jv16 registry cleaner not allowing group exclusion may be valid for you and for a given technical definition of group exclusion, some of us are a little more relaxed about what group exclusion consists of and how useful it is.

's hier geen probleem.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Well, as usual, you're being pretty picky, Erik, ;D but that's your right and not for me to criticize.

My point was meant to complement Peter's insofar as I find it sufficient for my purposes to examine what the registry cleaner has flagged and, usually, through judiciously juggling the sort column and orders, I can use the shift and ctrl keys and a mouse to implement all the group excludes I need to. So, while a blanket statement about jv16 registry cleaner not allowing group exclusion may be valid for you and for a given technical definition of group exclusion, some of us are a little more relaxed about what group exclusion consists of and how useful it is.

's hier geen probleem. <-QUOTE}
Well I will explain my point of view.
"Remove" and "Ignore or Exclude" are both actions and it sounds very logical to me that both actions have the same possibilities : one by one selection or group selection.
"Remove" is a 'dangerous' action, if you remove the wrong registry.
"Ignore" is a 'dangerous' action, if you ignore the wrong registry.
So there is no difference between them and they both deserve the same selection methods.

If a registry cleaner reports 100-200 VALID registries, right after installing Windows, then I'm a little worried about removing all these registries without any reason and I don't have enough knowledge to "remove" all these valid registries in one hit, just because they aren't used YET.
So it's alot safer for me to "ignore" these reported valid registries, because I don't want to see them anymore in the next report.
It's alot of work if you have to "ignore" 100-200 registries ONE BY ONE and that's why I want an "ignore" with group selection.

Each time I install a new legitimate software, I run my registry cleaner and "ignore" its VALID registries, because almost any legitimate software has such registries.
I don't trust the authors of registry cleaners either, because they all report differently.

Less-knowledgeable users will remove these reported VALID registries, because they think they are all superfluous, they want a clean registry and that's what makes registry cleaners 'dangerous'.
If I "remove" a registry, I need to have a BETTER reason, than just a cleaning reason and if I don't have a better reason, I prefer to "ignore" them one by one or in group.
I use a registry cleaner always before and after installing/uninstalling legimate softwares.

I don't need a registry cleaner, when I install softwares, I only want to try for any reason.
FDISR keeps my registry clean in such cases because I just have to reboot with a clean snapshot and my registry is back in a healthy state and the software I was trying is gone too.

I have many doubts about users and authors of registry cleaners, who claim to have the knowledge of thousands valid registries to "remove" these SAFELY. It wouldn't be the first time that users remove the wrong registry and get in trouble.

Taking a backup of your registry is not a big help, if you don't know or remember that the registry could be the reason, when your Windows suddenly starts acting strange.
Less-knowledgeable users will rather think of a malware, than restoring their registry in that case.

I hope you understand my point of view, which isn't so bad either. :)

[Peter2150]

Hi Erik

I've gotten more cautious about registry cleaners. I run it and just look over the list and remove/fix things that are obvious. Trying to do group exclusions could end up being more trouble then it's worth. i would personally stick with Regsupreme Pro. It has never gotten me in trouble.

Pete

PS It's really debatable if the whole thing is really worth the effort.

[crofttk]

Well, those are certainly good and well thought out reasons, Erik. I believe I must have thought many of these things one at a time before but never took the time to articulate them or organize them in my thoughts all at one time.

Despite that, though, I will confess that, for better or worse, I usually do a registry backup with jv16 and then just let 'er rip without any exlcusions. SO FAR, I haven't had any problems -- that I've noticed. I can't in good conscience recommend my approach to anyone because for me it's an acceptable risk and I'm willing to deal with the potential consequences but obviously it's not the safest practice.

Now, I can see from your thoughts above, that there's no way in hell you would do what I would do, but whatever it takes to make you feel secure and reliable with your system is all that matters.

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Hi Erik

I've gotten more cautious about registry cleaners. I run it and just look over the list and remove/fix things that are obvious. Trying to do group exclusions could end up being more trouble then it's worth. i would personally stick with Regsupreme Pro. It has never gotten me in trouble.

Pete

PS It's really debatable if the whole thing is really worth the effort. <-QUOTE}
Excluding valid unused registries dangerous? I would say removing valid unused registries is really 'dangerous'.

Not worth to talk about? Tell that to the less-knowledgeable user, who would remove the registries of FDISR in my original post, just because he thinks they are superfluous.
Never compare your knowledge with the knowledge of other people, not everybody has the same brain.
If I work on something, I always have the less-knowledgeable user in mind,
knowledgeable users and experts don't need my opinion, they can take care of themselves.

[crofttk]

Peter will speak for himself but I'm almost certain he was saying that what is debatable is the value of the whole widespread practice of running a registry cleaner simply as a "preventive" maintenance item -- maybe too many of us run them just because it seems like the thing to do (not you, Erik, or anyone in particular) -- I'll have to agree with that and maybe even be suspicious of my own motives for running a registry cleaner.

Yes, the registry can become bloated and/or fragmented over time and, supposedly, that can affect performance but that claim may be more subject to debate than the value of defragmenting your hard drive and people are very quick to debate about the value of defragmentation.

On the other hand, I can see the utility and more easily justify the use of a registry cleaner if your machine has a performance problem or is behaving oddly/wrongly and you're trying to figure out what's wrong.

[Peter2150]

Erik, I understand what you are saying, but I guess my point is, anyone with enough knowledge to know what to exclude probably is okay, and I would suspect 99% of the folks out there should avoid a registry cleaner like the plaque. To dangerous.

Pete

[Acadia]

Registry cleaners under WinXP simply aren't needed like they were under the older Operating Systems.

Acadia

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> I would suspect 99% of the folks out there should avoid a registry cleaner like the plaque. To dangerous. <-QUOTE}
I agree with you and a SAFE registry cleaner doesn't exist, although I've read this often in other posts about registry cleaners.
The way I will use my registry cleaner is pretty safe, I just need one with an ignore function, that allows me to select more than one.

I already contacted the author of AMUST Registry Cleaner, to consider an ignore with multiple selection and he will in the next version(s) of AMUST.
The latest version of AMUST is as aggressive as RegSeeker, while the older versions weren't like that.
It doesn't really matter which registry cleaner I use as long it has a decent ignore function.

[pvsurfer]

Erik, In another thread I thought you said you liked Tuneup Utilities 2006 (which I happen to use). I have never experienced any problems with it deleting any necessary reg-entries. ~pv

[pvsurfer]

{QUOTE-> Registry cleaners under WinXP simply aren't needed like they were under the older Operating Systems.

Acadia <-QUOTE}
Acadia~ That would be nice, but it simply is not the case. Windows XP's Add/Remove Programs (and most uninstall programs of software products) do NOT completely clean up associated entries from the registry. Admittedly, those residual entries usually won't cause serious problems, but they do eventually clutter the registry and result in slower performance. ~pv

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> Erik, In another thread I thought you said you liked Tuneup Utilities 2006 (which I happen to use). I have never experienced any problems with it deleting any necessary reg-entries. ~pv <-QUOTE}
True, but TuneUp Utilities 2006 has an ignore function without multiple selection.
AMUST too, but the author will consider it to fix this in the next version(s).
After all this is easy to do for a programmer and isn't really something new, just an improvement of the already existing ignore function of AMUST.

[Leapfrog Software]

Greetings ErikAlbert,

HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\System\CurrentControlSet\Control\Session Manager\PDUnmovableFiles\$ISRBIN

This entry is added by us. It informs PerfectDisk (one great defragger) not to mess with the file. I was looking at the installer code, and we do remove that entry. I also tested, our latest version x.166, on two lab systems and the installer does remove the entry. The installer must have *burped* (dhat is da technical term)

HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\FileExts\.arx

This is a mystery. To my knowledge, we never create the association for .arx, even though this is the extension of our archives. I confirmed this in the installer code and on a lab test system. Could it be another application that is using it?

[ErikAlbert]

{QUOTE-> This is a mystery. To my knowledge, we never create the association for .arx, even though this is the extension of our archives. I confirmed this in the installer code and on a lab test system. Could it be another application that is using it? <-QUOTE}
Just a wild guess, because I'm not qualified, I'm just an observer LOL.
Is it possible that MS Windows creates this registry during the installation of FD-ISR?
The only change I did in FD-ISR was changing the folder for .arx-files, I keep them on my data partition, not system partition.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Acadia~ That would be nice, but it simply is not the case. <-QUOTE}
I must respectfully disagree. Unless you are an EXTREME user, for example a gamer, cleaning the registry in XP simply is not necessary. I know that they are fun to play with, and give you geeks something else to do with your pc, but if the vast majority of folks don't need it, that is, 98% of pc users, tens, if not hundreds of million of people, then geeks probably don't either. Heck, most folks don't even know what you mean by "registry cleaner". The only time I ever needed a registry cleaner in XP was when I could not install a new anti-virus; I got a message that Norton was still on my system. I knew better, because I had just un-installed Norton. But sure enough, after deleting 4 Norton registry items, the new AV installed. ;)

Acadia

[Leapfrog Software]

As for the installer, we have to implicitly place extension associations there.