Roll back/Go back-software - Which is the best?

[carlo555]

Best=most reliable, in this context.

I found the following ones.

Backontrack
DeepFreeze
GoBack
Raxco First Defense
RestoreIT
Rollback Rx
ShadowUser
WinrollBack

Are there any comparative tests out there?

I got "blue screen" a couple of weeks ago and naturally was terrified when I couldn't even use safe mood to start the computer. Dell recomended I re-format the disk and make a clean install. Luckily the recovery disc gave me the alternative to try to repair the system first. In the second try it worked! I only had to install a couple of application as opposed to all of them and possible file lost.

I need a Roll back/Go back-software that even could handle the above situation.

Tried to install First Defense, but it didn't work. On their support-page they said it could conflict with Kaspersky, which I of course use.

Thank you in advance!

Carlo

[Acadia]

-{ Quote: "On their support-page they said it could conflict with Kaspersky, which I of course use.
" }-
If you are truly interested in trying FirstDefense, somewhere on the Raxco website there is a faq or knowledgebase article that tells you how to use KAV and FD together safely.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

I would first highly recommend FDISR first and Rollback as a 2nd.

If you are using the KAV 6.0 beta's there is no issue. If you are using KAV 5.0 and installed it with Istreams, you need to uninstall it, run the KLStreamremover.exe and then reinstall KAV 5.0 without the Istreams. The FDISR will run fine. I've done it.

If you have any further questions hollar.

Pete

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "I would first highly recommend FDISR first and Rollback as a 2nd.
Pete" }-

I would agree - depends on what you want


RB is very easy but at the moment snapshots are not persistent

FD is slightly slower to use but has persistent snapshots and archiving - so more relaible

[TonyW]

-{ Quote: "
Backontrack" }-That's one I've not heard of before. All the others I knew of.

[pvsurfer]

I say give strong consideration to the level of support you will receive. That immediately eliminates GoBack because Symantec support is an oxymoron. And from a support standpoint, among the contenders it's hard to beat Raxco (FDISR).

That said, I really like Rollback Rx because of its speed of creating/restoring snapshots, not to mention that it is easily the least 'resource hungry' of them all. BUT there'a a gremlin lose in the current version that has yet to be nailed down! So until their techies find and fix it, I say hold-off.

Bottom-line: If you need to make a commitment now, I would recommend FDISR, but if you can wait a while until Rollback's problem is understood and fixed, it would be the clear winner (their support is also pretty good).

~pv

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "I say give strong consideration to the level of support you will receive. That immediately eliminates GoBack because Symantec support is an oxymoron. And from a support standpoint, among the contenders it's hard to beat Raxco (FDISR).

That said, I really like Rollback Rx because of its speed of creating/restoring snapshots, not to mention that it is easily the least 'resource hungry' of them all. BUT there'a a gremlin lose in the current version that has yet to be nailed down! So until their techies find and fix it, I say hold-off.

Bottom-line: If you need to make a commitment now, I would recommend FDISR, but if you can wait a while until Rollback's problem is understood and fixed, it would be the clear winner (their support is also pretty good).

~pv" }-

There is also another issue that can currently affect the choice between Rollback and FDISR. Namely backup for disk failure. Rollback sort of complicates the issue as the long discussion in the Rollback thread indicates. On the other hand FDISR actually makes the situation easier and quicker. You can image once, and then just refresh FDISR archives which is super quick.

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "There is also another issue that can currently affect the choice between Rollback and FDISR. Namely backup for disk failure. Rollback sort of complicates the issue as the long discussion in the Rollback thread indicates. On the other hand FDISR actually makes the situation easier and quicker. You can image once, and then just refresh FDISR archives which is super quick." }-
Good point I suppose - I didn't know how do that when I used FDISR. :-[

[ErikAlbert]

I never used any of these softwares, but it sounds logical to me that you have to take care about your backup FIRST, before you start playing with softwares, like FDISR, ... that's what I'm doing right now.
I'm still struggling with the separation of winXPproSP2 and my personal files and that problem needs to be solved too, before I continue...
Of course I will use one of these softwares in the future too, but backup first.

My intuition tells me that it is not a good idea to use a snapshot as an image backup, but that is just my personal opinion. Snapshots are constantly on-line and that's what bothering me.

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "I never used any of these softwares, but it sounds logical to me that you have to take care about your backup FIRST, before you start playing with softwares, like FDISR, ... that's what I'm doing right now.
I'm still struggling with the separation of winXPproSP2 and my personal files and that problem needs to be solved too, before I continue...
Of course I will use one of these softwares in the future too, but backup first.

My intuition tells me that it is not a good idea to use a snapshot as an image backup, but that is just my personal opinion. Snapshots are constantly on-line and that's what bothering me." }-

FD is way cooler than you think .....


FD can archive snapashots to another disk so - a basic image restore from TI restore - import archive - worst case for disk failure.


or a very simple import of an archive in to an empty snapshot if the system boots to any of the existing snapshots.

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "FD is way cooler than you think .....
FD can archive snapashots to another disk so - a basic image restore from TI restore - import archive - worst case for disk failure.

or a very simple import of an archive in to an empty snapshot if the system boots to any of the existing snapshots." }-
Well, I will see that later. I thought BootItNG, IFW and IFD were also cool, until I used them in practice.

[Peter2150]

Hi Erik

FDISR is as easy to use as ATI as long as you understand the concepts, but here is how it all ties together, and is in fact what I am going to do.

I will take an image of my drive using 3 imaging programs with FDISR installed but no snapshot on the disk drive. In your case you've even test restored so they are good.

Then I keep two archives on separate disk drives, these I can refresh every day, it just takes minutes.

I then place a secondary snapshot on my drive as a working recovery snapshot.

Unlike with the disk images, I can test the FDISR archives anytime, buy just creating a new disk snapshot from an archive and verify I can boot to it. Then delete it.

Then when a disk totally fails, I restore from image, which has FDISR on it. This image might be months old, but that doesn't matter. I restore from the archive to a secondary snapshot, refresh the primary, and I am up to snuff.

Beauty of this is even if the images go bad, I am okay. I can just install windows, FDISR, and then restore the archive, and refresh primary.

FDISR used in conjunction with ATI becomes a powerful, but quick easy to test system.

Pete

[pvsurfer]

Pete, I never knew about that when I used FDISR (about a year ago). Is this the result of new features added over the past year (what is the latest version)? ~pv

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "Well, I will see that later. I thought BootItNG, IFW and IFD were also cool, until I used them in practice." }-

I use FD everyday - it is simlpy the best thing I have bought. Oh I also use Rollback on other machines but for relaibility FD is best


Why don't you download the trial and actually just try it

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "FDISR used in conjunction with ATI becomes a powerful, but quick easy to test system." }-
I've something like that in mind too.

I was in hurry for choosing an image backup software to make my experiments easier, because I'm dead tired of installing my computer from scratch.
I had only two choices : Acronis or Terabyte, I don't like Symantec and Acronis was more userfriendly.

So I bought Acronis True Image, because the BACKUP function of the "Acronis Bootable Rescue CD" doesn't work in the trial version and I needed a backup of winXPproSP2 without anything else, except the drivers and "Total Uninstall", but not Acronis True Image.

I did more RESTORES than BACKUPS until now and all of them were successfull.
I even restored a .tib-file from my system backup partition to a ZERO-ED system harddisk, using the Rescue CD and everything was OK.
I restored today 3 times a .tib-file on my system backup partition over my actual system partition, using ATI without any problems.
I tried all basic features of ATI (backup + restore + validation) AND the Rescue CD (backup + restore + validation) without any problem.
I was really worried about the restores, not the backups.
I like that backup/restore thingy very much, more than the software itself. It saves alot of time.

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "I use FD everyday - it is simlpy the best thing I have bought. Oh I also use Rollback on other machines but for relaibility FD is best


Why don't you download the trial and actually just try it" }-
starfish, you and Pete have renewed my interest in FDISR. Until HDS understands and fixes their current Rollback issues, I have uninstalled it and I'm going to give FDISR another 'look'.

[Baldrick]

Isn't it sad that people cannot be really objective and when ever a Symantec product is in the frame it is immediately discounted because.......it is a Symantec product.

Firstly, I use GoBack (v4)and have used it when it was a Roxio product (up to and including v3). I never needed support from Roxio and I have not needed support from Symantec......and I would say that not requiring support because there are no bugs in theproduct is really what you want from this sort of software.

Secondly, it has and continues to protect my PC perfectly. It is far less of a resource hog than some seurity products (and I exclude Symantec ones because I do not run any of them) - the two processes, GBPoll.exe & GBTray.exe take up 524K & 2,724K of memory respectively.

It does the job......well, IMHO. I would not discount it but rather compare features and decide what you want.

Regards




Baldrick

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "Isn't it sad that people cannot be really objective and when ever a Symantec product is in the frame it is immediately discounted because.......it is a Symantec product.

Firstly, I use GoBack (v4)and have used it when it was a Roxio product (up to and including v3). I never needed support from Roxio and I have not needed support from Symantec......and I would say that not requiring support because there are no bugs in theproduct is really what you want from this sort of software.

Secondly, it has and continues to protect my PC perfectly. It is far less of a resource hog than some seurity products (and I exclude Symantec ones because I do not run any of them) - the two processes, GBPoll.exe & GBTray.exe take up 524K & 2,724K of memory respectively.

It does the job......well, IMHO. I would not discount it but rather compare features and decide what you want.

Regards

Baldrick" }-
I appologize if it was my remark that upset you. The facts are that I used Roxio GoBack (v3) successfully and after Roxio sold GoBack to Symantec, I bought v4 as I wanted the latest updates in order to be sure it would remain compatible with future WinXP updates.

Well, v4 crashed my system (while creating a restore-point) to the extent that I not only couldn't boot Windows, I wasn't able to even get to the GoBack recovery screen! In a panic, I called Symantec for help and all they could give me was a method to restore my MBR (lot of good that did when my system wouldn't boot)! They offered no other advice or assistance.

So my Symantec 'support' remark stands and I'm sure there are many others who will corroborate that sentiment.

[ErikAlbert]

Baldrick,

Yes, it's very sad, I didn't choose your software and didn't give it a fair chance.
And another group of members are now sad, because I didn't choose BootItNG, IFW and IFD.
Etc. etc. etc.
I can't satisfy them all, because I have only ONE computer and I can't use three backup softwares at the same time.

I also had no time enough to try them all, I need an image backup for my experiments and I already lost time enough with my new computer and moving to another apartment.
But I will have time enough for softwares like FDISR, RollbackRx, DeepFreeze, ShadowUser, ...

I had enough bad experiences with other products of Symantec in the past and to get rid of them, was even more painfull. So Symantec was my very last choice.
So I offer my sincere apologizes for not being objective this time. :)

P.S.: I had the same problem with choosing my wife, I couldn't try all Belgian women, there wasn't enough time.

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "

P.S.: I had the same problem with choosing my wife, I couldn't try all Belgian women, there wasn't enough time." }-

;D ;D ;D

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "starfish, you and Pete have renewed my interest in FDISR. Until HDS understands and fixes their current Rollback issues, I have uninstalled it and I'm going to give FDISR another 'look'." }-


If Rollback had persistent snapshot and a built in archiving capability it would be the one for me - ( that from a user who has had quite a few problems with it and can't image the system with TI). It is very easy to use and very quick. I use it on my media server (dual boot) and my dad's pc - to save me me time fixing his pc. It wins on speed and simplicity but ....


FD is an excellent piece of software with nice interface - great support people, persistent snapshots and archiving. I have only trashed it so that it no longer worked once. But that was only the tray app so I just booted into windows reinstalled and magic all the snapshot re-appeared!!!


I have even created an empty snapshot and then installed a new version of xp into it so my test machine has 5 snapshots - 2 of my test build and 3 of my main build. So I kinda have a multi boot system - that how I use it. I then just archive other states to a separate disk.


Compared to just TI - FD is simpy amazingly flexible. A trust worthy friend.


I used to use goback and that saved me a few times but when problems occured for me the snapshot data was not peristent and the support terrible.

[Peter2150]

Couple of comments on Baldricks post.

1) I to used Roxio's Goback 3.0 And it worked well with only one major flaw. If you did something that caused "massive disk activity" it was all over Goback shut down.

2) I to have had a woefully back experience with symantec support. I just don't trust them.

[TonyW]

-{ Quote: "
2) I to have had a woefully back experience with symantec support. I just don't trust them." }-By the same token, there are others out there who haven't had issues with Symantec Support. The real understanding is how come some people hit snags and others don't?

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "By the same token, there are others out there who haven't had issues with Symantec Support. The real understanding is how come some people hit snags and others don't?" }-
The same with the support of ShadowUser, some people get an answer and others don't, including me and my email was very polite as always, maybe my questions were annoying for them or Belgium is too far for them and not important to them. If they keep on treating me like that, I won't even try their ShadowUser/Surfer. Their website sucks and their manuals are poor. Members at Wilders explain ShadowUser better than ShadowStor ever did. :)

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "If Rollback had persistent snapshot and a built in archiving capability it would be the one for me - ( that from a user who has had quite a few problems with it and can't image the system with TI). It is very easy to use and very quick. I use it on my media server (dual boot) and my dad's pc - to save me me time fixing his pc. It wins on speed and simplicity but ....

FD is an excellent piece of software with nice interface - great support people, persistent snapshots and archiving. I have only trashed it so that it no longer worked once. But that was only the tray app so I just booted into windows reinstalled and magic all the snapshot re-appeared!!!

I have even created an empty snapshot and then installed a new version of xp into it so my test machine has 5 snapshots - 2 of my test build and 3 of my main build. So I kinda have a multi boot system - that how I use it. I then just archive other states to a separate disk.

Compared to just TI - FD is simpy amazingly flexible. A trust worthy friend.

I used to use goback and that saved me a few times but when problems occured for me the snapshot data was not peristent and the support terrible." }-
starfish~

Re Rollback, been there done that (if you recall from the main Rollback thread, I also encountered a serious problem)! I have since uninstalled Rollback and tomorrow, after about a year since last using FDISR, I will put it back on my system.

Some day (hopefully soon) Rollback will be the 'system-restore' program to beat, but (strictly from a reliability standpoint) it's just not there yet...

~pv

[aigle]

-{ Quote: "If Rollback had persistent snapshot and a built in archiving capability it would be the one for me - ( that from a user who has had quite a few problems with it and can't image the system with TI). It is very easy to use and very quick. I use it on my media server (dual boot) and my dad's pc - to save me me time fixing his pc. It wins on speed and simplicity but ...." }-

As far as I know, RollbackRx can,t be used in multi-boot environment. Am I true?

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "As far as I know, RollbackRx can,t be used in multi-boot environment. Am I true?" }-

You are wrong - the manual , installation all support it.

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "starfish~

Re Rollback, been there done that (if you recall from the main Rollback thread, I also encountered a serious problem)! I have since uninstalled Rollback and tomorrow, after about a year since last using FDISR, I will put it back on my system.

Some day (hopefully soon) Rollback will be the 'system-restore' program to beat, but (strictly from a reliability standpoint) it's just not there yet...

~pv" }-

Indeed a very promising future. But FD defense will be revised some time soon ish so ..... who knows

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Indeed a very promising future. But FD defense will be revised some time soon ish so ..... who knows" }-

This is true. I know what Rollback has up it's sleave, but the Leapfrog guys also have some stuff planned. Given the break thru they made with their Archiving it's going to be interesting.

I know also Andrew at Rollback is working on the issue's I reported to him, but I got to tell you FDISR, takes the abuse of strenous testing much better on my box.

Pete

[carlo555]

Thank you som much for all the great suggestions.

I have uppdated my list.

Backontrack
Deepfreeze
Drive vaccine
Goback
Raxco first defense
Restoreit
Rollback rx
Shadowuser
Super win winrescue xp
Vcom recovery commander (Fix it utilities)
Winrollback

Remarkably I my computer started to return "blue screen" again this morning which makes my implementation of any of the above solutions more urgent. I finally got out of the situation by deactivating the function for network attacks in Kaspersky.

I have decided to try out all the above programs on a computer I don't use. First I will install the programs and next delete vital parts of Windows, restart the computer and see what happens and which of the programs that most easily and reliably gets me back to a point before the deletion.

Thank you again!

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "As far as I know, RollbackRx can,t be used in multi-boot environment. Am I true?" }-
-{ Quote: "You are wrong - the manual , installation all support it." }-
starfish, I believe aigle's statement to the effect that Rollback can not be used in a multi-boot environment is correct.

I can't find where in the Rollback manual or faq's it says otherwise, but in every instance (that I'm aware of) it is necessary for a multi-boot program to modify the MBR in order to setup a multi-boot environment. Rollback, FDISR, GoBack, and most other system-restore programs require total control of the MBR, so they can not co-exist within that environment.

The only exception to this that I'm aware of (and it's not really a multi-boot environment) is a virtual-drive environment (such as VMware) because the system-restore program sees the virtual-drive as just another file.

~pv

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "starfish, I believe aigle's statement to the effect that Rollback can not be used in a multi-boot environment is correct.

I can't find where in the Rollback manual or faq's it says otherwise, but in every instance (that I'm aware of) it is necessary for a multi-boot program to modify the MBR in order to setup a multi-boot environment.
~pv" }-


Try the manual again

Rb Rx professional - chapter 2 page page 17

Installation Custom setup - It is a small side note but there. I confirmed it before installing on my multi boot system.


-{ Quote: "

Rollback, FDISR, GoBack, and most other system-restore programs require total control of the MBR, so they can not co-exist within that environment.
~pv" }-

Some more than others but generally a good rule

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "Try the manual again

Rb Rx professional - chapter 2 page page 17

Installation Custom setup - It is a small side note but there. I confirmed it before installing on my multi boot system.

Some more than others but generally a good rule" }-
Hmm, you are right- it's there (though it's rather inconspicuous). ...live and learn I always say... :-[

Btw, which multi-boot program are you using? ~pv

[aigle]

I remeber when I wanted to do dual boot XP with linux, I sent them a mail and they told me Rollback is not recommended in this multiboot environment.

[Acadia]

I used an older version of GoBack for five years, before it was owned by Norton. Since I have not used a recent version own by Norton, this post may be way off mark BUT I am going to ASSume that GoBack is still as good as it was back then and say this:

While using GoBack for five years, it was flawless and never let me down. I discovered, from reading Usenet and many forums, that all the folks having trouble with GoBack did not know how to use it properly.

Now, that being said, let me say this -- FirstDefense blows Goback out of the water!! 8)

Acadia

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "I used an older version of GoBack for five years, before it was owned by Norton. Since I have not used a recent version own by Norton, this post may be way off mark BUT I am going to ASSume that GoBack is still as good as it was back then and say this:

While using GoBack for five years, it was flawless and never let me down. I discovered, from reading Usenet and many forums, that all the folks having trouble with GoBack did not know how to use it properly.

Now, that being said, let me say this -- FirstDefense blows Goback out of the water!! 8)

Acadia" }-

Like Acadia said, Goback never let me down either, but by a close call of a friend of mine I learned Goback had and still has a serious flaw. She called and asked if upgrading ZA was a good idea. They were having issues at the time. I said sure you've got Goback incase something went wrong. She upgraded Zone Alarm and went out to a meeting. In the interim her husband who has a hobby of Astronomy photograph processed a whole series of photo's. Goback massive disk thing shut goback done. Fortunately ZA was okay for them, because if they had needed to Goback, they were out of luck.

This is still an issue with Goback, but not with Rollback or FDISR. Unlike FDISR you can't (or at least you couldn't) defrag with GOback. Same problem it would shut itself down, and all history is lost.

Pete

[Acadia]

Yup, every time that I defragged, I had to shut down GB; even if GB could keep up with all of the file activity, hearing my poor hard drive thrashing around like that was simply too much.

Also, my first attempt at installing WindowsXP SP2 back in 2004 was a failure (my fault) and resulted in the dreaded no-boot scenario. With FirstDefense I simply rebooted into another Snapshot and had my entire system recovered in 5-10 minutes; my second attempt at installing SP2 was a success. Had I been using GoBack during that first attempt, I know that GoBack would not have been able to handle all of the file changing for that huge Service Pack; it would have shut itself down and I would have been stuck with an unbootable system.

Acadia

[starfish_001]

-{ Quote: "Hmm, you are right- it's there (though it's rather inconspicuous). ...live and learn I always say... :-[

Btw, which multi-boot program are you using? ~pv" }-

The manual is poor in this area my sense is that it only support a windows multi boot environment. I boot XP and MCE 2005 without any major problems

I think I would ask before trying GRUB or Acronis OS selector - I doubt they would work with it

[PeterVO]

Hello,

I'm also still using the last version of Roxio's GoBack on my dual boot laptop (Win98 Second Edition & Win XP SP2) and have used it happily for many years. It saved me and my Thinkpad many times for sure.
I've always used it together with many versions of Diskeeper (at this moment Diskeeper 10 Professional Premier) and Diskeeper's 'Set and Forget'-option makes it possible for GoBack to return in time for on average 5 to 7 days.

Kind regards,

PeterVO

[rondijack]

I am comparing RollbackRx and FDISR. Are there any problems using FDISR with a disk defrag program? Can FDISR be used with True Image? I dont see any answers in their literature. Also I am not really clear on what the problem some people are having with Rollback. Is it because the snapshots cannot be used for returning the system to an earlier state? I have had this problem several times with Windows restore, which is why I am looking for an alternate program

[Acadia]

Yes, FD can be used with TrueImage, but the Pre-boot option should be disabled while creating and restoring an image.

There can be some issues with defrag programs but I believe that they are rare. The Raxco website does indeed have information in the FirstDefense FAQs and Knowledgebase about FD and defraggers. Good luck.

Acadia

[rondijack]

Acadia thank you for the info. Can any one clarify the problems they encountered with RollbackRx? Was it the fact that the images were unstable?
Thanks for any info you can give me.
Rondijack

[sukarof]

-{ Quote: " Also I am not really clear on what the problem some people are having with Rollback. Is it because the snapshots cannot be used for returning the system to an earlier state? I have had this problem several times with Windows restore, which is why I am looking for an alternate program" }-

This is the problem I had with Rollback Rx, see post 329:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=127866&page=14
In short: One line of my snapshots got corrupted somehow in Rollback Rx all of a sudden. It could be something in my system or it could be some bug in Rollback that appears under special circumstances. I dont know wich, but for now I am sticking to Firstdefence until a new version of Rollback Rx arrives or when I do a reformat and a clean install of Windows XP, coz I really like Rollback Rx, it´s lightning fast taking the snapshots.

[pvsurfer]

-{ Quote: "This is the problem I had with Rollback Rx, see post 329:
http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=127866&page=14
In short: One line of my snapshots got corrupted somehow in Rollback Rx all of a sudden. It could be something in my system or it could be some bug in Rollback that appears under special circumstances. I dont know wich, but for now I am sticking to Firstdefence until a new version of Rollback Rx arrives or when I do a reformat and a clean install of Windows XP, coz I really like Rollback Rx, it´s lightning fast taking the snapshots." }-
Which I experienced as well (see post 333 of same thread)! I uninstalled RBx and will not use it until they (HDS) find and fix the problem.

[rondijack]

Thank you sukarof for your prompt and very useful reply.
Rondijack

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Thank you sukarof for your prompt and very useful reply.
Rondijack" }-

Hi rondijack

I concur with the others. I think for simple stuff Rollback was okay, but for serious testing where your system encounters numerous crashes and hangs, I saw issues. I also have gone back to FDISR, as I consider it totally reliable.

Also there where imaging issues with Rollback. What I just finished doing today was imaging my system. I took off my FDISR snapshot, imaged with Ghost,ATI,and IFD. Then replaced my FDISR snapshot. Probably won't image again for several months. I just update my FDISR archives daily. So quick.

Pete

[carlo555]

Now I have tested the following:

Backontrack
Deepfreeze
Drive vaccine
Goback
Raxco first defense
Restoreit
Rollback rx
Shadowuser
Super win winrescue xp
Vcom recovery commander (Fix it utilities)
Win rollback

(Demo/trial-versions of the programs can be found on the manufacturers' websites.)

I was looking for software that would fulfil three tasks:

1) Delete unwanted changes in Windows XP and remove unwanted installations of malware upon restart.

2) Could exempt specified maps and functions from routines, so that chosen new files would remain and also things such as new virus definitions, in other words, not delete wanted changes.

3) Could be used to reboot at system crashes.

The first task was tested by installing the free version of Kazaa, which comes bundled with a number of intrusive adware/spyware applications and as well make several additions to the start up registry. Then I inspected the computer file system to see whether Kazaa (and the adware/spyware components) was completely gone at restart. I also made a scan with Ad-aware to be sure.

The second task was tested by inspecting the functions in the software, to see whether it could be configured to exempt chosen maps from the overall restore function.

The last task was not tested this time. Did not dare and have time to simulate system crashes at the moment. Maybe I will do this later when I find a computer that could be crashed risk-free. Feel free anyone to do complete this part of the testing and report the results under this thread.

Take the test for what it is. It is not scientific. I stopped evaluating some of the programs because of specified reasons.

Results:

BackOnTrack Home
Doesn't remove Kazaa upon restart. Can be configured. Difficult to uninstall.

Deep Freeze
Removes Kazaa automatically upon restart. Saves absolutely no files. Cannot be configured.

Drive Vaccine
Removes Kazaa automatically upon restart. Saves absolutely no files. Cannot be configured. Difficult to uninstall.

GoBack
Could removes Kazaa upon restart is so is chosen. Long time to install. Feels slow.

FirstDefense
Doesn't remove Kazaa upon restart. Slow to make copies/snapshots.

RestoreIT
Removes Kazaa automatically upon restart. Unclear whether it could be configured to make desired exemptions.

RollBack Rx
Removes Kazaa automatically upon restart. Chosen maps can be exempted from routines. Unclear whether it can be accessed at boot.

Shadow User
Removes Kazaa automatically upon restart. Chosen maps can be exempted from routines.

Win Rescue
Creates boot diskettes and restore points, which could be used at system crashes. That's the functions I could see that the program offers. Did not try to install and uninstall Kazaa.

VCOM Recovery Commander
Demands that a reboot CD be created in order to evaluate the program. Did not care to do it. Uninstalled it.

WinRollBack
Difficult to really try the program, because it displays a demo screen intensively for 20 seconds per time. Did not care to wait. Uninstalled it.

Your comments and own experiences are of course more than welcome.

//Carlo

[ErikAlbert]

-{ Quote: "FirstDefense
Doesn't remove Kazaa upon restart. Slow to make copies/snapshots.
" }-
Are you sure about FDISR. Did you do it right?
This is not supposed to happen in FDISR. Unfortunately, I never used it in practice.

[TonyW]

-{ Quote: "Now I have tested the following:
FirstDefense
Doesn't remove Kazaa upon restart. Slow to make copies/snapshots.
" }-I'm abit puzzled by this. If you're going to test software like installing Kazaa, and then seeing if you can remove it completely from your system, it will work if done the right way.

My guess is you'd make a snapshot of the system before Kazaa is installed, call it Kazaa. You then boot into that snapshot. Install Kazaa, play around with it then boot back into previous snapshot - hurrah, Kazaa is gone! You can then either update the Kazaa snapshot with the one you're in or remove it completely. Either way, Kazaa is gone.

As for speed of copying/making snapshots, creating a brand new snapshot will take longer than updating an existing snapshot. Updating a snapshot takes anywhere from 2-6 minutes on my system.

Peter/Acadia, please correct me if I'm wrong in this.

[Peter2150]

@tony You are right on the money.

@carlo555. Don't take this as criticism, but if you are going to do these kinds of tests you need to really understand the software. Your comment on First Defense indicates you don't understand the software.

If you install something and reboot, why would it be gone. When you work in a FDISR snapshot you are just working on your computer. Install something and reboot, and it's still there. But as Tony said I maintain 2 snapshots. If I boot into the 2nd one, and install anything, good or bad, and then boot back to the 1st snapshot, and refresh the 2nd snapshot, and what ever was installed there is gone. More so then an uninstall could ever do.

For example I have gone into my 2nd snapshot, and uninstalled my AV, and Firewall, and then installed a security suite, reputed to be hard to remove. When finished I go back to my 1st snapshot, and refresh. At that point the 2nd snapshot is Identical to the 1st.

As far as crash recovery. Most crashes and the system will reboot fine. It's more like what happens when you trash the system. I have trashed my registry, and also at time trashed the system so back I couldn't even boot into safe mode. With First Defense just boot to the 2nd snapshot, refresh the first and I am good to go.

As to reliably accomplishing what you outlined I would rate:

FDISR 100%
Rollback 75%

Haven't done anything with the rest.

Pete

[Acadia]

If FirstDefense did not remove Kaaza, it WAS NOT used correctly PERIOD!! And depending upon how you were using FirstDefense you would have had at least two and possibly three choices on how to remove it. :-\

Acadia

[carlo555]

Thanks for the comments on my test.

Because of the comments I believe I have made a mistake with the testing of First Defense, so I will re-do the test of First Defense the next time I go to work.

Then i will:

1 Clean the computer with Ad-aware to set a baseline
2 Install First Defense
3 Take a snapshot
4 Install Kazaa with all its malware
5 Restart the computer
6 Restore the computer to the snapshot
7 Restart the computer
8 Inspect the file system to see if Kazaa etc. remain and also run Ad-aware to verify my visual inspection

Have a nice weekend!

//Carlo

[TonyW]

I'd make sure you do it in this order to do it properly - the extras are mine, in blue:

-{ Quote: "
1 Clean the computer with Ad-aware to set a baseline
2 Install First Defense - the first Snapshot it makes is the Primary Snapshot, the one you are in.
3 Take a snapshot - call it Kazaa or whatever.
3.1 Boot into that secondary snapshot called Kazaa.
4 Install Kazaa with all its malware
5 Restart the computer and boot into the Primary Snapshot (you can do this from Windows as well as from the Pre-boot screen).
6 Restore the computer to the snapshot - there is nothing to restore as you are now back in the Primary Snapshot that doesn't contain Kazaa - you can now either update the Kazaa Snapshot with the Primary Snapshot or delete the Kazaa Snapshot).
7 Restart the computer - I don't see a need to do this.
8 Inspect the file system to see if Kazaa etc. remain and also run Ad-aware to verify my visual inspection" }-

[Acadia]

Another way of doing this would be to simply use the Freeze option, then all you would need to do is reboot your system and Kazaa would be gone. I kind of like TonyW's way better though because it gives you experience playing with different Snapshots; gives you some idea of what this program is capable of. ;)

Acadia

[Longboard]

OT but:

-{ Quote: "FDISR used in conjunction with ATI becomes a powerful, but quick easy to test system." }-

I tried to stay out of this but IMHO ;

FDISR used in conjunction with BootIt becomes a morepowerful, but quick easy to test system. ;)

Sorry for sticking my oar in again.

Regards

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Thanks for the comments on my test.

Because of the comments I believe I have made a mistake with the testing of First Defense, so I will re-do the test of First Defense the next time I go to work.

Then i will:

1 Clean the computer with Ad-aware to set a baseline
2 Install First Defense
3 Take a snapshot
4 Install Kazaa with all its malware
5 Restart the computer
6 Restore the computer to the snapshot
7 Restart the computer
8 Inspect the file system to see if Kazaa etc. remain and also run Ad-aware to verify my visual inspection

Have a nice weekend!

//Carlo" }-

Carlo you have to understand that Kazaa will remain in the snapshot you install it in until you refresh that snapshot from a clean snapshot, UNLESS you use the freeze option.

Pete

[carlo555]

Thank you again for more comments on how to test First Defense properly.

I will carry out the test, probably, on monday.

Have a nice weekend!

Carlo

[carlo555]

I have now re-tested FirstDefense according to the previous outlined procedure corrected with the suggestions under this thread.

Unfortunately Kazaa remained after rebooting to the previous snapshot before the Kazaa-snapshot made before installing Kazaa.

I did not try the Freeze-option.

I'm happy if someone else more with knowledge of FirstDefense would try and report the result under this thread.

I also re-tested Rollback Rx and ShadowUser. Unfortunately with Rollback Rx I found that it would change the contents of the folders I have marked that I wished to be un-changed.

ShadowUser, under these circumstances, seem to be the program that fits my desired purposes best. Only one minus, which of course is a major one, it does not appear to be able to interfere at boot, to be able to rescue from a system crash. On the other hand, if it safely can lock Windows and other applications, which it appears to be able to do, system related problems would be likely to diminish.

//Carlo

[Acadia]

Did you use the clean Snapshot to UPDATE the contaminated Snapshot?

Acadia

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "I have now re-tested FirstDefense according to the previous outlined procedure corrected with the suggestions under this thread.

Unfortunately Kazaa remained after rebooting to the previous snapshot before the Kazaa-snapshot made before installing Kazaa.

I did not try the Freeze-option.

I'm happy if someone else more with knowledge of FirstDefense would try and report the result under this thread.

I also re-tested Rollback Rx and ShadowUser. Unfortunately with Rollback Rx I found that it would change the contents of the folders I have marked that I wished to be un-changed.

ShadowUser, under these circumstances, seem to be the program that fits my desired purposes best. Only one minus, which of course is a major one, it does not appear to be able to interfere at boot, to be able to rescue from a system crash. On the other hand, if it safely can lock Windows and other applications, which it appears to be able to do, system related problems would be likely to diminish.

//Carlo" }-

Carlo

Once you install something in a snapshot, you can boot, and reboot to it until the cows come home. It will still be there. You HAVE to refresh that snapshot from a clean snapshot, and then and only then will it be goine.

Pete

[aigle]

-{ Quote: "Unfortunately with Rollback Rx I found that it would change the contents of the folders I have marked that I wished to be un-changed.
//Carlo" }-

This option is not exactly the same. See my post here. Post # 292

http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=127866&page=12

[carlo555]

-{ Quote: "Carlo

Once you install something in a snapshot, you can boot, and reboot to it until the cows come home. It will still be there. You HAVE to refresh that snapshot from a clean snapshot, and then and only then will it be goine.

Pete" }-


OK! I will make one more try when I get back to work.

It was easier to remove Kazaa with the other rollback-softwares.

//Carlo

[TonyW]

-{ Quote: "
Unfortunately Kazaa remained after rebooting to the previous snapshot before the Kazaa-snapshot made before installing Kazaa." }-This is why I said that after booting back into the Primary snapshot (the one without Kazaa) you can then -{ Quote: "either update the Kazaa Snapshot with the Primary Snapshot or delete the Kazaa Snapshot" }-When you update the Kazaa snapshot with the clean Kazaa-free snapshot, it makes an exact copy so all traces are gone. You can do this, or simply delete the Kazaa snapshot.

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "OK! I will make one more try when I get back to work.

It was easier to remove Kazaa with the other rollback-softwares.

//Carlo" }-

Carlo

I would agree that say Rollback is far easier. However for this type of software what I want is reliability. I've torture tested FDISR and it has never let me down. Can't say that about Rollback. Fortunately the time it did let me down recovery wasn't to painful.

[Acadia]

Patience is the most divine of all virtues ... and when it comes to computing, an absolute necessity. :)

Acadia

[Peter2150]

-{ Quote: "Patience is the most divine of all virtues ... and when it comes to computing, an absolute necessity. :)

Acadia" }-

:thumb: :thumb: