How I see ISR

[wilbertnl]

I've been using ISR for only a few days now, and I'm impressed.

There was some confusing on my side, because this jewel of sofware strikes me now more as a virtual partition manager, where all 'partitions' reside on c:
Eliminating the problems of path references in the registry, very smart!

The advantage of the 'virtual partitions' is the elimination of slack diskspace, as opposed to a a couple system partitions each of which is only filled 50% and a separate data partition.

The archive function is excellent too.
At first the copy procedure takes a lot of time, the opposite of 'immediate', which seems discouraging. Especially when you are used to the quick imaging of Farstone or Acronis. But updates are done reasonably fast.

I understand from the forum that there is a lot of fuzz around data anchoring (Which should be renamed to 'local share' or something). But the ISR sofware handles the share with grace. The user is the one that causes problems. It requires organization and non-beginner registry maintenance.
Maybe this is an area for improvement.

Anyway, I just wanted to share my thoughts, and I want to compliment Todd Lear for developing this excellent concept!

[Acadia]

Non-beginner registry maintenance?

Acadia

[dallen]

wilbertnl,
Instant System Recovery refers more to the time it takes to recover once the system is set up properly, not the amount of time it takes to properly set up the system.

Also, I disagree with your assessment of what data anchoring should be called. The term data anchoring more accurately (and simply) describes what is being accomplished. Your suggestion, "local share" might be confused with file and printer sharing. It seems to me to be more confusing and would probably tend to mislead the average user. That is just my opinion. Take it for what it's worth.

[TonyW]

{QUOTE->
Also, I disagree with your assessment of what data anchoring should be called. The term data anchoring more accurately (and simply) describes what is being accomplished. <-QUOTE}I agree with this, but I can see why wilbertnl suggested "local share". I've a feeling he means the data is being shared across the snapshots locally. Personally, I prefer the data anchoring term.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> ...I understand from the forum that there is a lot of fuzz around data anchoring... <-QUOTE}Not a LOT of fuzz, wilbertnl.
Data anchoring is simply what is says (as dallen pointed out). The data, once it's anchored, just SITS THERE and doesn't participate in snapshot updating. Period.

I've done gobs of registry maintenance but I GUARANTEE you it never had anything to do with fixing an FD-ISR problem nor had it anything to do with kludging something to take advantage of data anchoring -- on the other hand, perhaps I don't get what you mean about it requiring registry maintenance ?

P.S. Yes, I can see the analogy you make to sharing a network drive by thinking of data anchoring as a "local share" -- it's not too bad an analogy, IMO. BUT, "data anchoring" brings to my mind dropping an anchor from a ship at sea and, hence, strikes me as a more direct and elegant metaphor -- I see no need to change it.

[wilbertnl]

Well,
English is not my native language, and when I think of anchors, then I think of something that is fixed. Like frozen snapshots are fixed.
I see the data anchoring as an equivalent of XP's 'shared documents' folder which is readable and writable for any user.

Dallen:
Restore into a fresh system partition from a disk image like farstone or Acronis takes me less then 3 minutes.
I understand that developing the image with correct settings is another story.

[Peter2150]

With FDISR there is no need to consider ANYTHING relating to the registry.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> Non-beginner registry maintenance? <-QUOTE}
You don't have to worry about that with your quarantaine approach. ;)

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> I've done gobs of registry maintenance but I GUARANTEE you it never had anything to do with fixing an FD-ISR problem nor had it anything to do with kludging something to take advantage of data anchoring -- on the other hand, perhaps I don't get what you mean about it requiring registry maintenance ? <-QUOTE}

Even when you move the 'my documents' folder to the data anchoring pool, this change is stored in the registry. Also moving Outlook Express storage is modifying the registry. For these folders you don't need regedit, but some folders can't be moved into the anchoring pool without tools like regedit.

[dallen]

{QUOTE->
Dallen:
Restore into a fresh system partition from a disk image like farstone or Acronis takes me less then 3 minutes.
I understand that developing the image with correct settings is another story. <-QUOTE}
wilbertnl,
Your English is so good that I assumed it was your native language.:D

Regarding restoration times, you admit that developing the image with correct setting is "another story," which I presume means that it takes a considerable amount of time. This is similar to the intitial setup time for FD (including taking the first snapshot). Maybe the entire setup time for imaging is less than FD, but that is negligable since it only occurs one time (incremental updates to snapshots take a relatively short amount of time). Once both FD and your imaging solution of choice are both set up, you say that it takes 3 minutes to recover your system using your imaging solution. FD takes 5 miliseconds and can be accomplished by pressing a total of 3 keys.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Even when you move the 'my documents' folder to the data anchoring pool, this change is stored in the registry. Also moving Outlook Express storage is modifying the registry. For these folders you don't need regedit, but some folders can't be moved into the anchoring pool without tools like regedit. <-QUOTE}

You shouldn't have to even think about the registry using FD-ISR. Of course anything you set with any program is stored there, but that is transparent to the user.

I think you would be much wiser to start like acadia. Don't use data anchoring, until you are a little more familiar with the program and how it works. You are totally overcomplicating things and confusing yourself.

Pete

[dallen]

I second that.

[ErikAlbert]

I have another question about FDISR, that isn't important enough to start a new topic and it has something to do with "How I see ISR" anyway.

As far as I understand, image backup/restore seems to be a byte-by-byte operation on your harddisk.
When you reboot with a FDISR-snapshot is this also a byte-by-byte operation ?

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I have another question about FDISR, that isn't important enough to start a new topic and it has something to do with "How I see ISR" anyway.

As far as I understand, image backup/restore seems to be a byte-by-byte operation on your harddisk.
When you reboot with a FDISR-snapshot is this also a byte-by-byte operation ? <-QUOTE}

Erik

Only to the extent that any thing the disk does is byte-by-byte. But to get at what I think you are asking: When refreshing a snapshot FD-ISR is copying files. When booting, once it selects a snapshot, it is like any other windows boot up. In fact unless you stop the preboot and check there you can't tell what snapshot you've booted to until you are up and running and open the GUI.

Pete

PS Forget "Imaging" software when thinking about FD-ISR. It will save you from confusion.

[Acadia]

All of the instant recovery programs operate on a file-by-file basis, FD, RB, GoBack, RestoreIt, all of them. I think that it would be impossible to recreate an instant recovery program that is not file-by-file. Imaging byte-by-byte is best left for copying the entire hard drive.

Acadia

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> Your English is so good that I assumed it was your native language.:D <-QUOTE}Thank you, Dallen

{QUOTE-> Once both FD and your imaging solution of choice are both set up, you say that it takes 3 minutes to recover your system using your imaging solution. FD takes 5 miliseconds and can be accomplished by pressing a total of 3 keys. <-QUOTE}
Actually, I consider that similar to booting from a second system partition, which would take the same time when you use the native Windows boot manager. But such a backup system partition would be much harder to maintain. ISR enables the user to easily copy the current functioning snapshot to a backup.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Even when you move the 'my documents' folder to the data anchoring pool, this change is stored in the registry. Also moving Outlook Express storage is modifying the registry. For these folders you don't need regedit, but some folders can't be moved into the anchoring pool without tools like regedit. <-QUOTE}
OK, I can't follow because of what seems like an ambiguity here. When you say "...move 'my documents' folder to the data anchoring pool...", I can't tell if you're referring to simply adding it to the Anchored Files list from within the FDISR interface or if you're "moving" it to some location on your system partition other than the default "C:\Documents and Settings\wilbertnl\My Documents" location.

I understand perfectly how moving some system folders require registry edits and I've done quite a lot of those kind of operations. However, there's no operation or function of FDISR that requires registry editing, especially if, by moving to the "data anchoring pool", you mean simply adding a folder to the Anchored Files list.

To follow up on Peter2150's recommendation, I keep my "My Documents" folder or a separate partition and have used FDISR for 3 years without using Data Anchoring -- mainly because my data files were already on another partition and I saw no use for it.

It wasn't until recently when I started (on my laptop only) revision backups of files on my data partition with AJC Active Backup to my system partition that I had a use for Data Anchoring -- including those archives in snapshots would be a big space gobbler and just excessive in its redundancy -- this was an OBVIOUS instance where Data Anchoring was just the thing.

I agree with Peter2150 that this discussion of anchoring has gotten overly complex -- it really needn't be so -- we seem be "spinning our wheels" or, as an alternative metaphor (if my guess at your native language is correct), "wij blijven rond de pot draaien".

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> ... When you say "...move 'my documents' folder to the data anchoring pool...", I can't tell if you're referring to simply adding it to the Anchored Files list from within the FDISR interface or if you're "moving" it to some location on your system partition other than the default "C:\Documents and Settings\wilbertnl\My Documents" location. ... <-QUOTE}
What I mean is changing the location on disk of the following folders: My Documents, Favorites, identities of Outlook Express, address book, Mozilla profiles. That kind of data.

I'm sorry that I sound like overcomplicating the setup of this excellent software. I'm really interested in utilizing the features that set this software apart from regular disk imaging solutions.

What I value so much in ISR is that I can leave everything on a single partition. In the past I have maintained multiple partitions, and once in a while I found myself dealing with too little space on such partition or wasting space. And sometimes I wished I could easily install another test setup, without losing the current installations.

I feel comfortable with what I'm doing, and I have learned the most from understanding my mistakes as opposed to doing everything always right. :)

[Acadia]

I have never used Data Anchoring, but I believe (Peter and all, correct me if I'm wrong) that your Data DOES NOT GET MOVED; the Docs and everything stay right where they are even when used with the Data Anchoring feature, no need for the Registry to make any change.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I have never used Data Anchoring, but I believe (Peter and all, correct me if I'm wrong) that your Data DOES NOT GET MOVED; the Docs and everything stay right where they are even when used with the Data Anchoring feature, no need for the Registry to make any change.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Correct, at least thats my understanding.

[dallen]

I think the confusion is due in part to someone's (Todd's I think) recommendation that everything (by everything I mean important data) be consolodated into the My Documents folder, if possible, and anchor the My Documents folder. As opposed to anchoring many individual files in their respective locations. For example, if for some reason you store your important tax documents in location c:/Tax Documents/, the recommendation is that you relocate that folder (which you would want anchored) to the My Documents folder and then Anchor the My Documents folder, rather than anchoring both My Documents and c:/Tax Documents/

I believe the goal is not to be anchoring multiple files (my multiple I really mean too many).

[wilbertnl]

You are correct, Dallen.

But when you have more accounts, you also have 'My Documents' folders for each account. So you would possibly reach the limit of the archored folders list if you would add the My Documents of each account.
That is why I moved all the 'My Documents' folders to C:\Anchored Data\%username%\My Documents. Outlook Express storage to C:\Anchored Data\%username%\OE6, etc.

The goal is to have a few entries in ISR's anchored data list and it doesn't matter how many subfolders or files C:\Anchored Data contains.
I have 40 GB data in C:\Anchored Data, available in all snapshots. And even available when I do a fresh install in an empty snapshot :thumb:

[Acadia]

40 Gigabytes!, GOOD GRIEF! Your Anchored Data alone is almost as big as all 10 of my Snapshots put together!

Acadia

[dallen]

That's a lot...I mean a lot!!!

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> 40 Gigabytes!, GOOD GRIEF! Your Anchored Data alone is almost as big as all 10 of my Snapshots put together!

Acadia <-QUOTE}

That sounds like total over kill. Wonder what the total disk usage is.

[TonyW]

That sure is a heck of a lot. My own 'My Documents' only has about 53MB of data that is anchored.

[dallen]

wilbertnl,
I have never sized up my My Documents folder until now. Your comment caused me to check. I have more than the "average" user (if there is such a thing) mainly because I have a lot of photos and 3 very large files that contain every academic related file that I've ever created. Mine is 10 Gb. You have indicated that your is 40 Gb, but that you have multiple users. It would take 4 users with substantially more data than average to create such a huge amount of data. My guess is that you have a lot of music contained within this file. I see no harm in anchoring music, if that is the case. Also, I do not think that the limitation on anchoring is related to the size of the anchored folders, but rather the number. It would be in your best interest to determine what is causing the folders to be so large and then make an educated decision about whether it is smart to anchor them.

[crofttk]

Well, while we're comparing notes, I checked My Documents and it contains 15.1 GB. That contins every photo me and my wife have taken over the last 5 years or so plus enough music to keep me happy while I'm away on business trips.

Oh, that also includes all of my Outlook files going back about 5 years and my Outlook Express files, all of which I moved out to my 2nd hard drive (partition on my laptop) along with the My Docs folder.

Wow, wilbertnl ! I'll toss my guess out there that you've got a few DVD's worth of movies on there.:lurking:

{QUOTE-> I feel comfortable with what I'm doing, and I have learned the most from understanding my mistakes as opposed to doing everything always right. <-QUOTE}Well, I know exactly what you mean and I respect that. I'm kind of the same and I'm on those kind of new things like a "duck on a junebug" when I'm first introduced to them, then I get settled down. I'm sure you'll end up where YOU need to be.:thumb:

[dallen]

{QUOTE-> Well, while we're comparing notes, I checked My Documents and it contains 15.1 GB. That contins every photo me and my wife have taken over the last 5 years or so plus enough music to keep me happy while I'm away on business trips.

Oh, that also includes all of my Outlook files going back about 5 years and my Outlook Express files, all of which I moved out to my 2nd hard drive (partition on my laptop) along with the My Docs folder.
<-QUOTE}
I hope that you've backed up these irreplacable things of value to an external source.

{QUOTE-> I feel comfortable with what I'm doing, and I have learned the most from understanding my mistakes as opposed to doing everything always right. <-QUOTE}I agree with this statement. The thing to keep in mind is that no one wants to learn the importance of backing up data by losing all of their data. Although, some people I know say that they understand the importance, but simultaneously refuse to take the necessary steps to protect their data. I want others to learn from my mistakes, as I've lost important data and it is no way to learn that particular lesson.

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> I hope that you've backed up these irreplacable things of value to an external source..... <-QUOTE}Absolutely ! Aside from being duplicated on 6 machines, one of which is nearly always away from the house, I have multiple external drives, one of which I keep at work and refresh about once a month, give or take.

[wilbertnl]

{QUOTE-> It would be in your best interest to determine what is causing the folders to be so large and then make an educated decision about whether it is smart to anchor them. <-QUOTE}

I have only a few e-mails. ::)

No wait, video files can take up a lot of space, 10 minutes can take 1 GB.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Absolutely ! Aside from being duplicated on 6 machines, one of which is nearly always away from the house, I have multiple external drives, one of which I keep at work and refresh about once a month, give or take. <-QUOTE}

Hey Crofttk

Your as bad as I am. I back to two external drives on my desktop, duplicate everything on the laptop, and back the laptop up to 1 external drive.

Pete

[crofttk]

{QUOTE-> Your as bad as I am. I back to two external drives on my desktop, duplicate everything on the laptop, and back the laptop up to 1 external drive. <-QUOTE}I "hear" you. Gigabytes are not too badly priced nowadays for providing some extra data security if you wait on rebate specials and have a modest budget you can spend on them.

But, yeah, I do draw the line at including AJC archives in all of my snapshots.;)