Eric Howes Trojan Test 2

[Liquid_Fish]

Eric has posted a follow up to his orginal test at

http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/trojans/tr-tests-2.htm

This one includes BoClean. *

If you missed the original series of tests you should start at

http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~ehowes/trojans/tr-tests.htm

[TonyKlein]

Well, I must say that I expected BOClean to perform a little better than that.

Although this may not be a comprehensive test, it certainly appears to be serious enough to make me start worrying (a little).

I'd be interested to hear the views of people more qualified than I am to judge these results.

[Liquid_Fish]

The biggest surprise has got to be Trojan Hunter. *I was under the impression that the Sub 7 trojan ( which these tests used ) is one of the more well known trojans out there. *

[Nancy_McAleavey]

We just put out an update to deal with what failed the test (ASPack
problem), need to figure out where we go from here as far as BOClean goes
to prevent any possibility of a similar outcome... the PROBLEM really is
there is no "real world" test and instead, like comparing virus scanners
on which one finishes a scan fastest (huh?) as a benchmark of quality ...
stay tuned, though it might be later tonight. The flapping of the gums is
a much lower priority at the moment than going over 9,000 trojans to see
if we've missed something else.

Bottom line, it's fixed, and the new update contains the fix.

[Liquid_Fish]

flap.. flap.. What is with the people on this board all of sudden? *anyway....

I think everyone is very much aware of the fact that these are not "real world" tests. *I know Wayne of Diamond CS has been very vocal about this in the past. *The good thing about these kinds of tests are the problems are discovered & missed trojans are reported to the vendors that develop these products. * These problems get addressed and we are all just a little bit safer in the "real world".

[UNICRON]

{QUOTE-> like comparing virus scanners *
on which one finishes a scan fastest (huh?) <-QUOTE}

All things equal, a faster scanner is a better scanner. I cannot speak for others but I personally prefer faster scanners. If I am waiting for it to finish, I don't have to wait as long.

If you don't undersand why I feel that way I might (and by no means am I accusing you of this) get the idea you don't think my time is valuble to ME. I doubt my time is of any value to you since you don't pay me by the hour to do anything, but others do.

{QUOTE-> The flapping of the gums is *
a much lower priority at the moment than going over 9,000 trojans to see *
if we've missed something else.
<-QUOTE}

I agree with this statement 100%. It does seem like you value you own time just fine.

However, a faster scanner that scans poorly and detects less, is an inferior product. I doubt anyone would argue that (although these days people will argue abiut what they had for breakfast it seems).

{QUOTE-> We just put out an update to deal with what failed the test <-QUOTE}

I interpret this as an indication that the test was of some value. It has helped you strengthen your product. If I was to harbour a guess, I'd speculate that your customers are pleased you have done this.

No product is perfect and I think it is important to not take it personal when some test (fair or unfair) finds faults in it. You have done a commendable job of fixing the issues quickly. That is sometimes more valuble to a client than anything, since sooner or later a new malware will come out (like D.I.R.T) and you will be one of the first to detect it. I beleive your Sofware and TDS-3 announced detection on the same day, and i have yet to hear if others have.

[Vampirefo]

These tests smell, Hell I can make a pinto look like a mustang if I wanted to, Anyone that does these test must provide the demo they used Sub7 or what every, I bet the author wont let me have a copy, I can fix it were every scanner will fail to detect it, but of course only the product I like will detect it.

A Trojan can be broken down bite by bite, and ran through a scanner, until the detection string is found change that, and that particular, scanner wont detect the Trojan at all.

[Vampirefo]

Yes after I made my post, and read it I realized I should have used bytes instead of bites, I know the spell police will be around and correct any other words. ;D

[UNICRON]

Now you attack the integrity of this tester?

{QUOTE-> These tests smell, Hell I can make a pinto look like a mustang if I wanted to, Anyone that does these test must provide the demo they used Sub7 or what every, I bet the author wont let me have a copy, I can fix it were every scanner will fail to detect it, but of course only the product I like will detect it.
<-QUOTE}

By using the term "these" you have directed your entire post at this test and other like it. Unless you have evidence to support this, you are acting the part of a TROLL.

Is it just the outcome that you do not like?

[Vampirefo]

The outcome is predictable, cause this a TDS-3 forum. Now If I go to Tauscan's forum, I predict their tests with show it as the top scanner, and If I go to the cleaner website, I predict their results will show the cleaner as the top.

[Vampirefo]

Per your evidence request one only has to visit another vender's site to see different results, Now if every other vender out their, shows TDS-3 as the top scanner, and their own product, can't detect as good as TDS-3, first I ask for a link to these sites, then I will admit I was wrong, now if you can't will you admit you are wrong?

[UNICRON]

I don't recall commenting on EVERY test, just this one. You have attacked and slandered the tester.

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=slander

I would never suggest all tests are fair and unbiased, but I will not condemn a test with no evidence whatsoever.

This is not a TDS forum

[Marsman]

I was slightly concerned when I read these test results earlier over at Becky’s but having dealt with (Kevin) BOClean’s tech support previously I felt confident that if indeed these tests were valid PSC /BOClean would have a fix in place fairly quickly.

Unlike so many other companies who seem to go into denial or silent running mode when product problems or shortcomings surface, PSC is one company that addresses these type of issues head-on & quickly.

I believe we should complain loud & clear if products are buggy. *Conversely, we should also promote those companies & products that really do the job that they were advertised to or we expected them to do.

Cheers,
Mars Man *;)

P.S. Liquid_Fish, agree totally with your (Reply#4) post. * *

[wizard]

{QUOTE-> The outcome is predictable, cause this a TDS-3 forum. <-QUOTE}

This is not a TDS-3 forum! Wilders Security Forums offer parts for TDS-3 support. The rest of this forum is open to all kind of products. This is a service as Becky offers this also to some security tools. So I beleave you would never call Beckys a BOClean forum?

wizard

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE-> I don't recall commenting on EVERY test, just this one. You have attacked and slandered the tester.

http://www.dictionary.com/search?q=slander

I would never suggest all tests are fair and unbiased, but I will not condemn a test with no evidence whatsoever.

This is not a TDS forum <-QUOTE}

I used the word these not this, so there is a difference, These mean tests posted on this forum would favor TDS-3, so I was correct. If I would have use the word this, then that would have meant I was only talking about this one test, but even you noticed which word I chose, So I will except that as you are telling me you were wrong, without using the word wrong, that's ok, I have gotten use to how you all treat people around here.

Please feel free, to check my spelling and grammar, or anything else that would distract, from me being correct, perhaps I use the wrong word somewhere, if so I am sure someone will let me know, in the most hatefulness,rude, manner possible.

[UNICRON]

Vampirofo, I am going to ask you a direct question. I have no previous assumptions on this:

Do you work for, work with, benefit from, or have any, professional or otherwise, association with any particular Anti-Trojan company?

A one word answer is all I ask for. I will not assume this is true if you decide not to answer.

[Liquid_Fish]

{QUOTE-> These tests smell, Hell I can make a pinto look like a mustang if I wanted to <-QUOTE}

keep in mind they can also show you the car you thought was a Mustang is really a pinto.

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE->

This is not a TDS-3 forum! Wilders Security Forums offer parts for TDS-3 support. The rest of this forum is open to all kind of products. This is a service as Becky offers this also to some security tools. So I beleave you would never call Beckys a BOClean forum?

wizard <-QUOTE}

A survey is hosted here for TDS-3, and anyone that objects to the actions of TDS-3, is belittled, by the mods here, this doesn't happen at Becky's, here is a test go to Becky's in the boclean forum, and post you disagree with something they do, you will not find the Mods jumping on you, calling you names cause you used an e instead of o in a word, this is the only forum that does that, cause it a TDS-3 forum.

No will the mods ask you whether or not you have a legal copy, cause that is a privacy issue, you know a need to know thing, this is most defiantly a TDS-3 forum, and it's proven by the actions the mods do, to belittle anyone that disagrees with TDS-3 methods.

Don't worry you support TDS-3, so no one will check your spelling, only those that oppose TDS-3, spelling and grammar will be checked.

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE->

keep in mind they can also show you the car you thought was a Mustang is really a pinto. <-QUOTE}

Agreed 100%

[Liquid_Fish]

{QUOTE-> Unlike so many other companies who seem to go into denial or silent running mode when product problems or shortcomings surface, PSC is one company that addresses these type of issues head-on & quickly. <-QUOTE}

This is to be commended!!! *You know Norton & McAfee won't even blink at these tests.

[UNICRON]

the post regarding spelling was not made by a mod.

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE-> the post regarding spelling was not made by a mod. <-QUOTE}


Nor was it removed by a Mod, That by itself says a lot about this forum, All negative.

[UNICRON]

so why stay here trollin?

PS. I am not a mod of that forum so I can do nothing. I have asked for it to be edited.

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE-> so why stay here trollin?

PS. I am not a mod of that forum so I can do nothing. I have asked for it to be edited. <-QUOTE}

Only some members and Mods are trolling, you are including in the trolling the rest of us, are here to get Wayne to respect privacy, which is laking on this forum.

[Vampirefo]

Ok and here is proof that this test is BS, Wayne, The author of TDS-3 promoting this test on another forum. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,2682034

[UNICRON]

you have already made your position on TDS-3 well know. Mission accomplished. I don't think anyone needs any further clarification on that.

You have have also made you position on the mods and admins here well known. Mission accomplished. I don't think anyone needs clarifcation on that either.

Repeatedly dragging this into every thread is seen as an intent to turn this board in to another mudslinger, and although begrudgingly, I have to admit you have done an excellent job of it. Mission accomplished

What next?

[Vampirefo]

You asked for proof, I gave it to you.

[UNICRON]

{QUOTE-> Ok and here is proof that this test is BS, Wayne, The author of TDS-3 promoting this test on another forum. <-QUOTE}

Wayne liked the results did he? shame shame. I still don't see how this means the tester was biased. Show me proof Wayne paid him or something. Who wouldn't quote something that someone said good about their product? Even if they had never met or spoken this would happen.

Slackware.org doesn't know me but if I did a test that showed they were the most secure OS available, they might link to it. If I arrived at that conclusion on my own, am I biased?

[TonyKlein]

You can say a lot of things about Eric Howes' antitrojan test, *but you can't possibly call it partial.

And if the outcome of this independent test happens to be favorable to TDS -3, what on earth is wrong with Wayne referring to it?

You appear to see signs of conspiracy everywhere...

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE-> You can say a lot of things about Eric Howes' antitrojan test, *but you can't possibly call it partial.

And if the outcome of this independent test happens to be favorable to TDS -3, what on earth is wrong with Wayne referring to it?

You appear to see signs of conspiracy everywhere...
<-QUOTE}

Yes I see a conspiracy, cause people where talking about another test, that didn't favor TDS-3, so Wayne popped in the thread and offered the above to show TDS-3 was on top, and to discredit the other test which is here. http://www.pcflank.com/art17d.htm

[UNICRON]

If Tauscan links to it , will that test become biased too?

[Liquid_Fish]

{QUOTE-> Ok and here is proof that this test is BS, Wayne, The author of TDS-3 promoting this test on another forum. <-QUOTE}

He also has this link on the diamond CS homepage. * These are independant tests that put his product in a good light, you can't blame a guy for advertising the strengh of his product.

[Paul Wilders]

Vampirefo posted:

{QUOTE-> ..this a TDS-3 forum. <-QUOTE}

This forum is part of wilders.org security. We officially mirror for various software vendors, amongst them:

- PCS/BOClean
- TrojanHunter
- DCS/TDS

and others. Feel free to check with the vendors - or have a look on their website.

Thus: wrong conclusion.

regards.

paul

[Vampirefo]

{QUOTE->

He also has this link on the diamond CS homepage. * These are independant tests that put his product in a good light, you can't blame a guy for advertising the strengh of his product. <-QUOTE}

At one time I would have agreed with you, but not as things have been going, I just don't trust this company anymore nor their supporters. I know some of this companies supporters are good people, but they are hard to find as of late.

Due to all the negative posts by this companies' supporters, it's really hard to believe anyone or any post showing TDS-3, in the lime light, I used to recommend TDS-3, and had trust in them, not any more.

So I also doubt any comparison chart they favor, and it is unfair to the author of the test, cause he may not be involved with TDS-3, but because of all that's happened, I wont just take his word for it either.

[Paul Wilders]

Vampirefo,

You have made your view on TDS quite clear by now.

Unless you do have something new to add, withold from commenting all over this board one and the same message.

regards.

paul

[Liquid_Fish]

Are there any tests that you do trust? *If so could you provide a link.

thanks.

[Liquid_Fish]

FYI.

I heard on GRC Eric is going to run these tests again with the updated version of BoClean & Trojan Hunter.

[UNICRON]

got a link? Rumor mill?

[Nancy_McAleavey]

Couple of days? *It's spring break, I think he wants to take a day or so off. *:)

[TonyKlein]

{QUOTE-> got a link? <-QUOTE}

Yes: *http://www.dslreports.com/forum/remark,2768167~root=security,1~mode=flat

Cheers,