How to burn DVDs using the two step method?

[Skyhawk]

I've read about backing up a partition to DVDs using the two step method to allow buring without UDF formatting but I can't figure the exact procedure out. Say I want to image the C: partition to DVDs. The "used" portion of the C: drive is 15GB which means it needs to span several DVDs.

Using TI-8, build 937:

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BURN PROCEDURE:
1. Create a folder on a hard drive.

2. Create the image of the C: drive in that folder.
I seem to recall that the file size should be specified as 2GB. Is this the optimum for recording to 4.7GB DVDs? Or would 2.3GB file size be better?

3. Assuming 2GB file size, do I burn two files per DVD? Or one per DVD?

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RESTORE PROCEDURE:
The TI-8 manual says for the two step procedure "You will be able to restore images from such disks under Windows and when Acronis True Image is loaded from the bootable media."

1. What does "under Windows" mean? If the C: partition is the one being restored, Windows is not running. Confused on this point.

Assuming that only the bootable rescue CD is needed to do the restore:

2. Can I restore the C: image directly from the DVDs to a new hard drive installed as master on the primary IDE cable? Or do I need to copy all of the .tib files on the DVDs to a folder on a hard drive and do the restore from there? If so, how does one do that if the system C: drive is the one being restored?

3. What is the order of inserting the DVDs? First disc first or last disc first?

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Sorry for the long post and thanks for any help,
Skyhawk

[seekforever]

-{ Quote: "I've read about backing up a partition to DVDs using the two step method to allow buring without UDF formatting but I can't figure the exact procedure out. Say I want to image the C: partition to DVDs. The "used" portion of the C: drive is 15GB which means it needs to span several DVDs.

Using TI-8, build 937:

=====

BURN PROCEDURE:
1. Create a folder on a hard drive.

2. Create the image of the C: drive in that folder.
I seem to recall that the file size should be specified as 2GB. Is this the optimum for recording to 4.7GB DVDs? Or would 2.3GB file size be better?

When over 2GB the ISO file system can't be used and the file will be burned as UDF. Nero gives a warning that this isn't as universal and may not be readable in some systems although Windows and TI won't have problem with it. I use 1492 MB which allows for good use of the DVD and the ISO file system. Gives 3 image files per DVD..

3. Assuming 2GB file size, do I burn two files per DVD? Or one per DVD?

Burn as many as you want to the capacity of the DVD. Obviously more is better.

=====

RESTORE PROCEDURE:
The TI-8 manual says for the two step procedure "You will be able to restore images from such disks under Windows and when Acronis True Image is loaded from the bootable media."

1. What does "under Windows" mean? If the C: partition is the one being restored, Windows is not running. Confused on this point.

You are correct. You can start the process under Windows and then it will recommend you reboot and it will bring up the standalone Linux version. Since you have to enter all the data again, I often just boot up with the standalone version and do it once.

Assuming that only the bootable rescue CD is needed to do the restore:

2. Can I restore the C: image directly from the DVDs to a new hard drive installed as master on the primary IDE cable? Or do I need to copy all of the .tib files on the DVDs to a folder on a hard drive and do the restore from there? If so, how does one do that if the system C: drive is the one being restored?

Yes just feed the DVD(s). If you are restoring an image from DVD to an operational system it is a lot faster to copy the image file(s) to the HD first.

3. What is the order of inserting the DVDs? First disc first or last disc first?

I believe it wants the last disk first because the final backup metadata is written at the end of the process. Note that TI will ask for volumes when restoring and the volume is each file not each DVD. So if you have 3 pieces of a split image on each disk and the backup is on 4 DVDs, volume 4 is on DVD 2 not DVD 4. I hope I am recalling this correctly.

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Sorry for the long post and thanks for any help,
Skyhawk" }-

Comments interspersed with your questions.

[Skyhawk]

Seekforever,

Great feedback! I will print your response and use it as a reference when imaging to DVDs.

EDIT: When burning the .tib files from the folder on the hard drive to the DVD, should regular "burn a data disc" be chosen or does it have to be burned as ISO files?

One thought I'd like to discuss with you regarding file size. You mention that you use a file size of 1492. That would total 4.476 GB per DVD (3 x 1492). What's your opinion of using 1536 (1024 + 512) instead? 3 x 1536 = 4.608 GB which would be less than the 4.7GB capacity of blank DVDs. I'm wondering if using numbers that are powers of 2 would be better like 1024 and 512.

Thanks again for your help,
Skyhawk

[seekforever]

-{ Quote: "Seekforever,

Great feedback! I will print your response and use it as a reference when imaging to DVDs.

EDIT: When burning the .tib files from the folder on the hard drive to the DVD, should regular "burn a data disc" be chosen or does it have to be burned as ISO files?

One thought I'd like to discuss with you regarding file size. You mention that you use a file size of 1492. That would total 4.476 GB per DVD (3 x 1492). What's your opinion of using 1536 (1024 + 512) instead? 3 x 1536 = 4.608 GB which would be less than the 4.7GB capacity of blank DVDs. I'm wondering if using numbers that are powers of 2 would be better like 1024 and 512.

Thanks again for your help,
Skyhawk" }-

Burn regular data disk. The ISO you mention is for burning a CD image and that is not what you are doing.

Yes, the sizing problem. The 4.7GB size of a DVD is the number of bytes specified as a decimal number. If you use K as 1024 instead of 1000 then the size is 4.37GB. (4.37x1.024x1.024x1.024)=4.692GB. I think TI uses K=1.024 because if you put in a big number for the file split size it will make it 4.37G based on an earlier post.

When 1536 MB is entered the actual size expressed as decimal for the 3 files will be 1536 x3x 1.024=4.718GB decimal. Will that fit?

I think there is a convention of how to properly express your MB and GB when K=1000 or 1024 when writing but don't recall what it is. Sorry.

[Skyhawk]

-{ Quote: "Burn regular data disk. The ISO you mention is for burning a CD image and that is not what you are doing.

Yes, the sizing problem. The 4.7GB size of a DVD is the number of bytes specified as a decimal number. If you use K as 1024 instead of 1000 then the size is 4.37GB. (4.37x1.024x1.024x1.024)=4.692GB. I think TI uses K=1.024 because if you put in a big number for the file split size it will make it 4.37G based on an earlier post.

When 1536 MB is entered the actual size expressed as decimal for the 3 files will be 1536 x3x 1.024=4.718GB decimal. Will that fit?

I think there is a convention of how to properly express your MB and GB when K=1000 or 1024 when writing but don't recall what it is. Sorry." }-
Seekforever,

Burning regular data disks will be easy. Thanks.
That is a good point about binary verses decimal when expressing capacities for computer stuff. Forgot all about that and what you say makes a lot of sense. I'll use your known working file size value of 1492.

Thanks for all the help and I owe you a few beers :thumb:
Skyhawk

[beckygb]

I have tried burning image backups the one step way and the two step way. My experiences with the 1-step way is it is hit or miss. I normally save to an external usb HDD, but I like to do a DVD-R save at the end of the month. I have read about using .iso backup files.

I am using TI9 (latest build) and I have Nerro 7. How do I create .iso files? Also is that better then the regular .tib files?

Thank you, in advance.

[Chutsman]

Becky, one thing comes to mind in that when it comes time to Restore, TI will not recognize an .iso file .... it has to be .tib. So it is best to keep the backup images as .tib and burn them as simply a .tib file. You don't want to add more factors into the equation for TI to barf on.

[seekforever]

A .iso file is the compiled image of a CD. It makes more sense to just write the data files, in this case the .tib files, to the CD or DVD.

Personally, if I did not have to directly write a backup file to DVD I would never do it. Why worry about the integrity of backups and then deliberately introduce what is a weak link. That is not to say they don't work but writing to a DVD is not the most reliable way of creating files on the fly. Anyway, that is my opinion and undoubtably others will disagree.

I create my images on a second internal HD. I then burn the odd one to DVD when I feel I should. I do agree with having some images on DVD or on a second HD because who says the primary backup HD can't fail too. I always have TI verify my images after creating and before restoring.

When I burn my DVD images I burn it as a data file with a size under 2GB so it doesn't trigger the UDF format. Nero will give a warning that it is not as compatible although TI doesn't apparently have a problem with it, nor does Windows. I split my backups at 1492 MB which fits 3 split files on a DVD with not too much left over.

I ALWAYS select Nero's "verify after burn" option. I try to use quality media but every now and then I'll get a bad burn detected. I know about it right away, not when I try to use the DVD, so I can do it again. If you want to be even more careful you can slow the burn speed down in your software. One rule of thumb for increasing relability is never more than half the drive's speed or half the media's rated speed whichever is the lesser.

FWIW, I have read an article which states +R is more relable than -R. Some people didn't agree with that but even though I can't recall the details it did seem to make sense. I still have a bunch of -Rs but I think I might switch to +R when they are gone.

[beckygb]

Thanks guys, for the info, and I will heed your advice.

I must have seen the same thing about DVD+R, seakforever. I also plan on switching to DVD+R when my DVD-R supply runs low. I always verify any CD/DVD when I burn a disk.

Becky