Hard Drive Upgrade Question

[dashriprock]

I plan on using True Image to upgrade my Hard Drive. I want to do the following:

1. Clone my old hard drive to the new one.
2. Leave my old hard drive in the computer to use as storage.

My questions are:

1. When I connect the new hard drive to the system, the jumper should be set to "slave" during the cloning process?

2. Once the cloning is complete, should I reset the jumper in the new hard drive to "Master" and the old hard drive to "Slave"?

3. Will True Image automatically change the Old Drive letter to something other than "C"?

4. Is it best to clone partitions to the new drive "As Is" or in proportion to the size of the new drive? The old Drive is 40-GB and the new drive is 200-GB.

These may seem like dumb questions, but I have never upgraded a hard drive before.

Thanks!

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "I plan on using True Image to upgrade my Hard Drive. I want to do the following:

1. Clone my old hard drive to the new one.
2. Leave my old hard drive in the computer to use as storage.
" }-
Welcome to Wilders dashriprock. :)
-{ Quote: "
My questions are:

1. When I connect the new hard drive to the system, the jumper should be set to "slave" during the cloning process?
" }-
Are the data cables to the drives SATA (serial ATA) or PATA (Parallel ATA)?
PATA cables are wide ribbon cables while SATA are much narrower.
PATA cables usually have 3 connectors on them while SATA cables always have 2 connectors.

For a PATA setup, the drive that is set to master should be on the end connector of the cable. The slave drive is connected to the middle connector.
This is of course if you are hooking up both drives to the same cable (IDE Channel).

For SATA, it is one drive to a cable (channel), so set each drive to master.
-{ Quote: "
2. Once the cloning is complete, should I reset the jumper in the new hard drive to "Master" and the old hard drive to "Slave"?
" }-
Yes, but make sure you switch the new master drive to the end connector of the PATA cable. And make sure you power down first. It also doesn't hurt to discharge static electricity by touching the computer's case.

-{ Quote: "
3. Will True Image automatically change the Old Drive letter to something other than "C"?
" }-
The Imaging software doesn't handle the drive lettering, the operating system does. Windows will rename the old drive letter to something else available.

-{ Quote: "
4. Is it best to clone partitions to the new drive "As Is" or in proportion to the size of the new drive? The old Drive is 40-GB and the new drive is 200-GB.
" }-
It really depends on how you like to partition your drive. Some people like the simplicity of one big C: partition and just dump everything in there.
Others like to split the OS and Data into separate partitions.
Some like separate OS, Programs, and Data partitions.
There are some good threads here on partitioning and a good article on it at Aum-Ha.
If you like one big C: part. then in proportion.
If you want to organize your data, then you will need to decide how big you want each partition.

-{ Quote: "
These may seem like dumb questions, but I have never upgraded a hard drive before.
" }-
There are no dumb questions, only dumb answers ;)

[dashriprock]

Thank you Devinco, but I have a problem.....

1. I turned off the computer and installed the new drive as a slave.

2. I turned on the computer and it booted fine.

3. The computer reconized the hard drive "New Hardware Found".

4. Before I could open True Image, the computer crashed!

5. I un-connected the new hard drive but the computer still crashes.

What I'm I doing wrong?

HELP! ??? ???

[dashriprock]

I forgot to mention the following...

Since the computer crashed, windows is checking drive for consistancy. It has been running for 10 minutes now, going over and over...

"cross link allocation units resolved by copying."

Is this a bad thing? What is going on?*puppy* :(

[dashriprock]

UPDATE...

My computer seems to have survived the crash and is now working.

Now, when I try this cloning procedure again, should I...

1. install new hard drive.
2. Power up computer
3. Boot up computer with rescue disk?
4. Open True Image

Since I did not boot up with rescue disk the first time, is that why my computer crashed?

:-\

[Devinco]

It appears that your computer and/or your OS is having trouble recognizing your new drive. You will have to get that sorted out first.
If your computer won't detect the drive, the software won't be able to detect it either.
It is usually best to let the consistancy check complete.

Right now you have the one 40GB drive hooked up as master on the end of the PATA IDE cable is that correct?
What version of Windows are you running?
What is the make and model of the motherboard?
Is the hard drive data cable plugged into the motherboard or into another card?
Was the power cable also hooked up to the new and old drive when you previously hooked it up?
What CPU do you have?
What is the make and model of the 2 hard drives?
Is your 40 GB drive using any type of drive overlay like EZBIOS, MaxBlast, etc.?
When you first power on the computer, the computer runs a POST Power On Self Test, what does it say exactly for the section that reads something along the lines of: Primary Channel.... Secondary Channel....?
That section of the POST will indicate if the motherboard is detecting the drive. It still may have trouble with it, but the hardware has to be able to see it first.
Do you have a way to back up critically important files on to a CD, DVD, or external HD? As this is your first time upgrading, it would be a very good idea to back up whatever you can first. At least back up your files that cannot be replaced. There is a chance that you will lose all the data if you don't have a backup. If you are not sure you want to risk it, then I would take it to a computer shop to install the drive.

[dashriprock]

My computer is a Dell Dimension 4100 I purchased in 2001. Both hard drives are Maxtor. Processor is a 933 Pentium 3.The new hard drive was connected with power.

When I started the computer, It indicated that new hardware was found and it was the new hard drive.

Should I boot the computer using the bootable cd? How do I check the BIOS to confirm that it will boot from a cd? How do I boot the computer from the CD?

Thanks!

[dashriprock]

I am also running windows XP service pack2

[dashriprock]

The jumper on the old hard drive is set it "Master" . Should the jumper on the new hard drive be set to "Slave" (No jumper at all) or "Cable Select" (Jumper Installed per instructions)?

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "The jumper on the old hard drive is set it "Master" . Should the jumper on the new hard drive be set to "Slave" (No jumper at all) or "Cable Select" (Jumper Installed per instructions)?" }-
I can't tell you the correct jumper positions without knowing the specific model numbers of the hard drives.
But the drives usually have clear instructions on them for jumper position.

You have a bigger problem to deal with then jumper position.
According to this (http://support.dell.com/support/edocs/systems/dzuul/specs.htm#general), your computer can handle up to ATA-100 devices. ATA-100 has a limit of 138 GB drives. Your new drive is 200GB.
A complicating issue is your PCI Bus is 33Mhz (this is for your expansion cards)
You are also probably using an older cable like this (http://www.karbosguide.com/hardware/module5b5.htm) 40 conductor cable which is only good for ATA-33.
You should get an ATA-133 IDE cable also. A rounded cable will help a little to improve airflow, but a flat one is fine too.

I would suggest to get an ATA-133 expansion card (this would allow for the much larger drive size), however, the cards I have seen only work with a 66Mhz PCI bus like the one at the bottom of this page (http://www.promise.com/product/segment_lv2list.asp?segment=Non-RAID%20HBAs). (note the 66MHz bus)
So if you can find an ATA-133 card that works with 33MHz PCI bus, great, but I doubt it.

So it looks like your choices are
1. Get a smaller hard drive: 120GB is under the ATA-100 138GB limit and according to the documentation, your computer supports ATA-100 devices.

2. Somehow set the drive to be smaller than 200GB. I recall some drives having a special jumper setting for crippling the size of the drive.
I don't know if your drive has this option or not. Even if it does have the setting, it seems like a waste to cripple the size.
I would just exchange it for a smaller drive like option 1.

Hope this helps.

[dashriprock]

Thanks for the info, learn something new everyday!

I found the following controller at Newegg, will this work?

HighPoint Rocket133 PCI IDE Controller Card

Brand HighPoint
Model Rocket133
Specifications
Type IDE
Internal Connectors 2 x ATA 133
Interface PCI
Transfer Rate 133MB/s per channel
Operating Systems Supported Windows 98 / ME / NT4.0 / 2K / XP / 2003
Linux (SuSE, Red Hat, Caldera, Turbo), and FreeBSD
Features
Features 32bit/33/66MHz PCI; HighPoint HPT302 UDMA ATA133 Controller; Bootable disk support; Large LBA support capacity exceeding 137GB
Retail Box (see pics for details)
Compatible with HD Devices Not Compatible with ATAPI (CDROM) Devices

Do you think this would work? My cable is the newer type.

Thanks!

[Devinco]

It looks like that may work.
But it doesn't mean you are out of the woods yet.
You will still probably have to experiment with BIOS settings, possible IRQ conflicts, card slot positioning, etc.
You are adding 2 more IDE controllers (on one card) which will want IRQs. There may be conflicts with other cards/components.
You won't know until you try it.
Are you loaded up with PCI cards? How many free PCI slots do you have?

I would probably go with the card. But I don't mind playing around with settings and such until it works. Maybe it will be easy with no conflicts, just plug it in and go. You can't tell for certain until you try.

Some notes:
Try to place the ATA-133 card in the PCI slot closer to the CPU. But leave enough breathing room for the fan on the video card.
Install one thing/try one setting at a time, test it, then continue!
Install just the card (no drives attached) boot up and see if there are any problems in Device Manager or during POST / Boot up.
No yellow exclamation mark or errors? then power down. Unhook the IDE cable from the motherboard (gently) and plug it into the primary channel on the card. Reading the manual for the card wouldn't hurt either. Boot up and see if the card recognizes the drive.
Only when you can safely boot into Windows on the new card with old drive attached should you power down and attempt to hook up the new drive as a slave on the same cable.

[Chutsman]

Try the following:

Boot with the TI boot CD and use the feature "preparing a new drive" on your new drive. It may just get past the fact that the new drive is a 200gb size. If it does, TI will format it and you will be able to clone it.

[dosdoxies]

Chutsman, you may just answered a question I've had about TI9. I back up to a USB external drive. If my main drive should die and I buy a new one to replace it, I have to format it first, right. But if I have no OS, (dead Drive), does TI9 format the new drive before restoring the image from the external? Thanks.

[Menorcaman]

Hello dashriprock,

Irrespective of what else may have gone wrong, from your posts it's not clear to me if, after the cloning operation completed, you disconnected the original HD before booting into Windows for the first time. If you don't do this Windows 2K/XP will become confused by the DiskID that's retained on the old drive. In which case you may need to use Method #3 ("Kawecki's Trick") detailed in this excellent <Dan Goodell article> (http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm) to reset the DiskID on your new drive.

If you don't have access to a Win98 startup floppy that's mentioned in the article, send me your email address via a Private Message and I will forward a CD ISO of the floppy (in zipped format if you prefer).

Regards

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "Chutsman, you may just answered a question I've had about TI9. I back up to a USB external drive. If my main drive should die and I buy a new one to replace it, I have to format it first, right. But if I have no OS, (dead Drive), does TI9 format the new drive before restoring the image from the external? Thanks." }-Hello dosdoxies,

In case Chutsman is safely tucked up in bed by now (;D), perhaps he won't mind me answering on his behalf.

You do not have to partition or preformat a new drive when restoring a "whole disk" image. However, if the replacement drive is larger than the original, you can either use a Partition Management utility or this <work around procedure> (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=600143) to increase the size of the restored partition(s).

Regards

[dosdoxies]

-{ Quote: "Hello dosdoxies,
However, if the replacement drive is larger than the original, you can either use a Partition Management utility or this <work around procedure> (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?p=600143) to increase the size of the restored partition(s).

Regards" }-

Thanks for the info. My primary drive is 160GB but I'm only using less than a quarter of it. I have a spare new 80GB drive that I keep for emergencies. Is there a problem imaging a 30GB backup image to a smaller drive? Thanks.

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "Thanks for the info. My primary drive is 160GB but I'm only using less than a quarter of it. I have a spare new 80GB drive that I keep for emergencies. Is there a problem imaging a 30GB backup image to a smaller drive? Thanks." }-Hi dosdoxies,

There won't be a problem as long as the size of the used sectors on the original drive (not the compressed image) is less than the new 80GB drive.

Regards

[shieber]

Don't forget that when you clone a system drive. Right after cloning, remove the old system drive then boot up!
Otherwise windows gets confused about which drive to treat as the sys drive .

Once you have booted up on the new sys drive, then you can shut down and reconnect the old sys drive and windows will still use the new sys drive as the sys drive.

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "Don't forget that when you clone a system drive. Right after cloning, remove the old system drive then boot up!
Otherwise windows gets confused about which drive to treat as the sys drive ." }-Hmm, I thought I made that point in post #15 above. Obviously not!! ??? ;)

Regards

[Devinco]

-{ Quote: "Hello dashriprock,

Irrespective of what else may have gone wrong, from your posts it's not clear to me if, after the cloning operation completed, you disconnected the original HD before booting into Windows for the first time. If you don't do this Windows 2K/XP will become confused by the DiskID that's retained on the old drive. In which case you may need to use Method #3 ("Kawecki's Trick") detailed in this excellent <Dan Goodell article> (http://www.goodells.net/multiboot/partsigs.htm) to reset the DiskID on your new drive.

If you don't have access to a Win98 startup floppy that's mentioned in the article, send me your email address via a Private Message and I will forward a CD ISO of the floppy (in zipped format if you prefer).

Regards" }-
Hello Menorcaman,

I may be wrong, but I think dashriprock answered this here:
-{ Quote: "4. Before I could open True Image, the computer crashed!" }-
This was after hooking up the 200GB drive as a slave.
He was not able to even open TI let alone clone the drive.

The hardware on his motherboard is not able to handle the 200GB drive.
In the best case, even if TI was able to clone it with the CD, his 200GB drive would still be limited to 138GB (that is if it would work at all). He would still need to upgrade his hardware (with an ATA-133 adapter) to use the full 200GB.
I don't have TI, so I can not say for certain, but if the hardware can't access it completely, then the software won't be able to either.

[Menorcaman]

-{ Quote: "This was after hooking up the 200GB drive as a slave.
He was not able to even open TI let alone clone the drive." }-Hi Devinco,

Oops, I obviously misread it and thought the "crash" was after the clone had completed :-[. Still, I guess my point will come in handy for when dashriprock manages to sort out his hardware issue and carries out the clone ;).

Regards

[dashriprock]

Hello All....... Maybe another piece of the puzzle.......

About a month ago I purchased a PNY USB 2.0 Portable Flash Drive, 256MB.
I was never able to use it because the computer would crash when I connected it to the USB port, just like it is doing now with the hard drive.

Come to think of it, it crashes from time to time when my son connects his Ipod. Hmmmm.......

I have bought a USB 2.0 port PCI card to install but have'nt done it yet. I have 2 PCI slots open.

Any thoughts?

Thanks!

PS. Thanks to everyone who has helped!!

[dashriprock]

One other comment....

Maxtor offers a "Large Disk Enabler" (almost sounds disgusting)which is suppose to allow the BIOS to see hard drives larger than 137gb. I think Intel also has some type of download that will do the same thing.

I know these won't completely solve my problem, but would they help?

Thanks!

Also, if you are wondering why I didn't just buy a new computer , I bought my son a new laptop for Christmas so I am upgrading mine as best I can.

[Chutsman]

Menorcaman .. you can answer on my behalf anytime ;D

Dashriprock .. I think you answered your own question ;) there IS something wrong with that usb port that is causing crashes. Could be that you need updated drivers for it. Definitely install the pci card with the usb ports - might solve everything.

[dashriprock]

UPDATE.................

I installed the USB2.0 card and my computer STILL crashes when I plug in my Sandisk flash drive. ???

Anybody have any ideas?

Thanks!

[Chutsman]

Okay let's get back to basics, dashriprock ......

Clean out the following folders: Cookies, Temp, Temporary Internet Files
Also, if you haven't done this, run a couple of anti-spyware programs AND an anti-virus program.

After this try that usb flash drive again.

[Devinco]

Looks like you have multiple troubles dashriprock.
Finding out if you've got malware wouldn't hurt.

Also, check to see if your USB drive and IPOD works properly on another computer. Use the same cables so you can isolate the problem to your computer, the devices, or the cables.

The Large Disk Enabler is a software called a Drive Overlay.
Maxtor used to call it MaxBlast.
While it may be tempting to just use it and the newer versions may be better, you are just adding another complicating factor.
Drive Overlays have caused me problems in the past.
Any programs that work with the drive at a lower level (TI, Partition Magic, Go Back, defrag) may have issues with it.
Maybe you will have no problems using it, but I would just say no to drive overlays.
If you really want to use the drive overlay, you should make sure that TI and other drive programs work with it.

Try to resolve one problem at a time.

[dashriprock]

UPDATE.....

I ran two different spyware programs and a anti-virus program and cleaned out my system. I have made some progress.

As long as I have flash drive and scanner plugged in BEFORE I boot the computer everything works fine. If I plug these in AFTER the computer is up and running, the computer immediately crashes and reboots. Almost reminds me of a power surge of some sort.

HELP :-\

[Devinco]

Troubleshooting USB issues can be difficult and require trial and error to resolve.
At this point, you will be better off posting your questions at USB specific forums like here (http://www.everythingusb.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?&forumid=16) or here (http://www.usbman.com/forum/UltraBoard.cgi).
You could also try the product specific forums and tech support for your scanner and UFD (USB Flash Drive).
Be sure to post ALL the relevant technical details so it will be easier to help you troubleshoot and the tech answering won't have to guess what you have.
However, here are some questions, ideas, and info that may help.

*Since the problem was occuring before and after putting in the USB2 card, I would remove the card and try to resolve the underlying USB problem first.
Check Device Manager for any devices with Yellow exclamation marks or red x's before and after you remove the USB card.

*Your computer comes with two usb ports, from the age of the computer, I would guess they are USB 1.1 ports not USB 2. USB 2 devices should work on a USB 1 computer just at the slower speed.

*What exactly are you connecting to those two ports and how are they being connected? Are your keyboard and mouse USB or PS/2(round plugs)?
If they are USB, that means your two ports would be used up leaving no room for the UFD, IPOD, scanner, and whatever else you are plugging in.
Are you using a USB hub? Is the hub unpowered?
USB has a 500mA maximum and with an unpowered hub and all those devices, you may be exceeding that. A powered USB hub has a separate power connection and does not rely on the computer to supply power through USB.
There is relevant info here: Powered USB? (http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/askjack/2005/09/powered_usb.html) read the comments too, in particular the one about the IPOD.
So a powered hub may be needed.

*When the computer crashes and reboots, did you plug in just one device or both? Did windows recognize the device was plugged in (with the usual "dunk-dunk" sound) before the crash?
Did it just crash reboot by itself after plugging in the device, or did the mouse (and keyboard) freeze and you pressed the reset button?

*Getting the latest drivers for all the devices would be a good idea too.
Sometimes USB devices and drivers don't work well with each other.

*Keep a log book (or paper) of your tests and the results so you can easily keep track of what you tried. This will help to narrow it down as long as you try one thing at a time, test it, and note the results.
Try to create a repeatable problem that can be used as your test.

I don't have a "magic bullet" for your problem, but hopefully this gets you closer to a solution.

[dashriprock]

HELP ???

I just installed my new HighPoint Rocket133SB ATA133 Controller.....

1. Installed card everything is cool, computer sees it and no conflicts that I can see.

2. I set the BIOS so that the Rocket is first in boot order.

3. Transfered the IDE cable from the Motherboard to the Rocket.

4. Booted system, I see the Windows XP logo, there is a flash of a blue screen, then the system crashes and tries to reboot.

What the #%#@ !!! >:(

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

[dashriprock]

Hello All............

Here is a update :)

Here is what I have done.

1). I left my old hard drive connected to the Motherboard.

2). I installed the new 200Gb hard drive to the ATA133 controller on a separate cable. It is set up as "Slave"

3). I set the boot order Old Hard drive first and ATA133 controller second.

4).I was able to boot the computer without it crashing. Device Manager shows both hard drives as being present.

5). I opened up True Image and clicked on clone function. It shows my old 40GB hard drive as source and the 200GB hard drive as destination. It shows both drives as being "C" drives.

Is this too good to be true? Am I about to screw something up with both hard drives being on separate cables?

[dashriprock]

GOOD NEWS........... GOOD NEWS........... GOOD NEWS .............

I finally got everything to work properly. My 200GB Hard Drive is up and running. Cloning went off without a hitch. True Image is truly a great program.
I will be buying a powered USB hub to correct my crashing problem.

To Devinco and Chutsman, thank you so much for your advice.:thumb: I have learned a lot in the past week.

Dash:)

[Chutsman]

Glad to hear that ... so what about the fact that BOTH drive were showing up as C in the cloning ... did you just accept it and continue the cloning?

You should really get to the root cause of the crash that is being cause by simply plugging in a usb flash drive.

In addition to a spyware cleaner and Antivirus scan, you should also run a Registry cleaner. A good free one is CCleaner. In fact you should scan regularly (once a week) for spyware, viruses and redundant entries in the Registry.

[dashriprock]

I decided to just use the 200GB hard drive. Both hard drives did show up as "C" drives during cloning. I had read that Windows actually determines the drive designation so I thought I would give it a try. I cloned the drive, removed the old 40Gb drive, set the new drive to "Master" and it booted up the first time. The new drive running through the ATA133 controller. For some reason when both drives were connected to the same cable, the computer would crash and reboot. I cloned the drive with the old drive connected to the motherboard and the new drive connected to the controller.

I will take your advice about the registry cleaner. Anything that helps is welcomed.

[Devinco]

Dash,

Congrats.
Don't know why it crashed the first time on boot up, but here are some other related ideas.

-{ Quote: "2). I installed the new 200Gb hard drive to the ATA133 controller on a separate cable. It is set up as "Slave"" }-
This is not correct. When you have one drive on a cable, the drive should be Master. Please read this (http://www.pcguide.com/ref/hdd/if/ide/confCable80-c.html). Pay particular attention to the Connector Assignments and Color Coding section, and why the drive placement on the cable is important.
Perhaps the reason it cloned correctly was the Highpoint was able to compensate for the incorrect assignment/placement.

The new drive is bigger and faster and should be set to master on the black end connector of the ATA133 controller now that it is cloned.
Both drives are Maxtors, so I don't see why they won't play nice together.
I would try to set the 40GB to slave and connect it to the middle Gray connector on the cable to the ATA133 controller to test.

Perfomance wise, having each drive set to master (on the end black connector) on a different cable (channel) is better. Provided there are no side effects like 2 C: drives.

If you open My Computer, does it show 2 C: drives? It shouldn't.