Antispyware abilities on virus scanners...

[Simon Phoenix]

Hello, I currently run sav 10 corporate and zonealarm free. My question is concerning the spyware abilities on SAV 10 but not just Sav10 but most antivirus with added spyware protection, are they good enough not to need a dedicated spyware scanner?

[bigc73542]

The av's that do have some antispyware will do a pretty fair job but personally I would still recommend running a dedicated AS.

bigc

[metallicakid15]

i like having antivirus software embedded with antispyware like f secure(i think they still have antispyware in their antivirus) because you spend less money buying antispyware software.

[ellison64]

Depends really.My personal opinion is that ,even if you used dedicated AS programes you will find that many of them differ in thier detection capabilities anyway,thats why many people use more than one AS like adaware and spybot.Personaly i found the spyware/adware detection in kav to be easily on a par if not better than any of the AS progs ive used. When i used kav i didnt bother with anything else including dedicated trojan programmes (i do the same with my current av antivir premium).A dedicated AS programe may offer better removal practices than brute removal of an AV though......though if its detected in the first place it shouldnt get installed.
ellison

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> i like having antivirus software embedded with antispyware like f secure(i think they still have antispyware in their antivirus) because you spend less money buying antispyware software. <-QUOTE}
Not complete correct.:)

It depends on what brand AS is embedded......

[sweater]

Anti-virus scanners are made to detects viruses. 8) But if they can also detects some spywares then it's a plus. ;)

But for me, I'd like to see an anti-virus companies to concentrate themselves on detecting virus instead of becoming a "Jack of all trade" thing... coz I'm worried that they may reduced their capabilty to detect viruses if they have "some other things to do" or adding something on it other than detecting on viruses just to make their antivirus to become more popular. :P

The same thing w/ anti-spywares, anti-trojans and other anti things out there. ;D If they have to concentrate their work on one thing then I think it will becomes more effecient and very effective. ;)

[Sputnik]

I won't rely on the build in spyware detection (one exeption, I'll mention it later). I would always recommend an dedicated anti-spyware program, wich is just for free (ad-Aware or/and Spybot S&D). If you have a free promotion version of CA's PestPatrol that'll be fine too.

The only AV I use without extra anti-spyware is F-Secure's Client Security. It got an build in ad-Aware engine. But that's the only exeption on the rule.

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> The only AV I use without extra anti-spyware is F-Secure's Client Security. It got an build in ad-Aware engine. But that's the only exeption on the rule. <-QUOTE}
In the beginning Ad-Aware was top-notch, maybe the nr.1

Nowadays not, there are many better products, and that's a pity.

[Sputnik]

{QUOTE-> In the beginning Ad-Aware was top-notch, maybe the nr.1

Nowadays not, there are many better products, and that's a pity. <-QUOTE}
Like? I don't see any products better then ad-Aware or Spybot S&D. All commercial anti-spyware programs return lots of fp's. The only good commercial application is PestPatrol.

I've noticed you use SpySweeper, well at first the program looked nice to me. But it gave me so many fp's it's crazy. Besides of that it make my VPN and some software from work non-functional. Same problem with Spyware Doctor and Giant Antispyware (Microsoft) for me.

[diginsight]

I'm currently evaluating various antispyware programs and tried to find some independent test results. For every antispyware program you can find tests with different results.

{QUOTE-> Like? I don't see any products better then ad-Aware or Spybot S&D. All commercial anti-spyware programs return lots of fp's. The only good commercial application is PestPatrol. <-QUOTE}

If you take a look at these test results (http://spywarewarrior.com/asw-test-guide.htm) you'll see that Pest Patrol scores a lot of false positives. The average results are:
Ad-aware: 54,73%
Spy Sweep: 55,24%
Spybot S&D: 37,73%
Pest Patrol: 47,97%
Giant AS: 72,82%
SW Doctor: 38,86%

{QUOTE-> I've noticed you use SpySweeper, well at first the program looked nice to me. But it gave me so many fp's it's crazy. Besides of that it make my VPN and some software from work non-functional. Same problem with Spyware Doctor and Giant Antispyware (Microsoft) for me. <-QUOTE}

On my test system SpySweeper prevents IE from running, unless I shut it down. That's another method of blocking spyware;D MSAS and SD drive me mad with their warning and like Ad-Aware didn't detect many of my (extremely limited) sample set. I think I will decide not to have a real-time Antispyware, but only use on-demand scanning and see how well it goes.

[Sputnik]

{QUOTE-> I'm currently evaluating various antispyware programs and tried to find some independent test results. For every antispyware program you can find tests with different results. <-QUOTE}
Indeed, it's hard to find a independant test about anti-spyware programs. I think the decision much be based on users' own experience.

{QUOTE-> ...Pest Patrol scores a lot of false positives. <-QUOTE}
It's true PestPatrol 'can' give a lot of fp's. Especially on cookies and P2P software. On the other hand, I noticed PestPatrol having a very good detection of spyware but also commercial keyloggers, wich many other products fail to detect. On my system PestPatrol gave me two fp's. I've put them in the ignore list so they won't bother me anymore (both were unknown (secret) VPN software, wich are only used by a few people in our organisation, and therefore can't be submitted as a false postive). The fact it rates P2P programs as dangarous, well that's up to the developpers, some chooise to rate it such way, others don't. Same with the detection from the KAV Extented Database.

{QUOTE-> On my test system SpySweeper prevents IE from running, unless I shut it down. That's another method of blocking spyware;D MSAS and SD drive me mad with their warning and like Ad-Aware didn't detect many of my (extremely limited) sample set. I think I will decide not to have a real-time Antispyware, but only use on-demand scanning and see how well it goes. <-QUOTE}
To me, real-time antispyware scanning has always been doubtfull. I only use ad-Aware for a on-demand scan, every time and update comes out (right now I don't use Spybot S&D anymore, since BitDefender is incompatible with it). I also use a free promotion version of CA's PestPatrol to preform a on-demand scan.
You as Dutchman, will probally know the Hitman Pro software. I think that's the only capable software (-suite) to clean badly infected systems. And the only way to prevent is (in my opinion) use an alternative browser, like Firefox or Opera, and to install only trusted software. Not to forget only visiting thrustwhorty sites as well.

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> Like? I don't see any products better then ad-Aware or Spybot S&D. All commercial anti-spyware programs return lots of fp's. <-QUOTE}
Don't agree;)
Not all.

{QUOTE-> The only good commercial application is PestPatrol <-QUOTE}.
The program is good, but not for the average user.
Many FP's, and when you don't know how to handle with them you are in trouble;)

{QUOTE->
I've noticed you use SpySweeper, well at first the program looked nice to me. But it gave me so many fp's it's crazy. Besides of that it make my VPN and some software from work non-functional. Same problem with Spyware Doctor and Giant Antispyware (Microsoft) for me.
<-QUOTE}I rank SpySweeper as one of the 3 top-notch AS programs available on the market.
Can't agree about the FP's in SpySweeper.

The current version don't drop down my system on the knees anymore.
Same for Spyware Doctor and MS AntiSpyware.

Spyware Doctor is good, but comes behind SpySweeper.
Need improvement.

MS AntiSpyware is good, because it's free, good detection rate and become everyday better.
Need some time to improve, but watch and wait, within 1 year it is top-notch;)

BTW: this is my personal opinion:)

[Sputnik]

{QUOTE-> The program is good, but not for the average user.
Many FP's, and when you don't know how to handle with them you are in trouble;) <-QUOTE}
That's true, average users will me dazzled. But for me it's just fine.

{QUOTE-> I rank SpySweeper as one of the 3 top-notch AS programs available on the market.
Can't agree about the FP's in SpySweeper. <-QUOTE}
All based on personal opinion, and what programs you use/have installed on your computer. Like I said, VPN programs always give problems.

{QUOTE-> MS AntiSpyware is good, because it's free, good detection rate and become everyday better.
Need some time to improve, but watch and wait, within 1 year it is top-notch;) <-QUOTE}
Microsoft AntiSpyware is nice for the average user. I would recommend them a combination of the free (promotion) eTrust EZ Antivirus, Microsoft Antispyware and the Windows XP SP2 firewall. Free and easy to use for the normal users.
For myself, Microsoft Antispyware doesn't fit my bill, and installs a bruch of things I don't want or need.

[Smokey]

{QUOTE->
All based on personal opinion, and what programs you use/have installed on your computer. Like I said, VPN programs always give problems.
<-QUOTE}
I have used all programs mentioned by you.
I have some practice so to speak;)

{QUOTE-> Microsoft AntiSpyware is nice for the average user. <-QUOTE}
Not only for the average user:)

{QUOTE->
I would recommend them a combination of the free (promotion) eTrust EZ Antivirus, Microsoft Antispyware and the Windows XP SP2 firewall. Free and easy to use for the normal users.
<-QUOTE}
From a security view i wouldn't give them such a recommendation, but that's my personal opinion (again);)

{QUOTE->
For myself, Microsoft Antispyware doesn't fit my bill, and installs a bruch of things I don't want or need.
<-QUOTE}
Within MS AS you can make your own brunch perfect..
Just (de)activate what you want, and you are settled8)

[Sputnik]

{QUOTE-> Within MS AS you can make your own bruch perfect..
Just (de)activate what you want, and you are settled8) <-QUOTE}
Ok, I'll download the latest version, and see how it is now (only tested it when it first came out). I must download it at home, since at work we don't pass the Geniue Advantage Check. We already had contact with Microsoft about that so often :-X

[diginsight]

{QUOTE-> On my system PestPatrol gave me two fp's. I've put them in the ignore list so they won't bother me anymore (both were unknown (secret) VPN software, wich are only used by a few people in our organisation, and therefore can't be submitted as a false postive). <-QUOTE}

I'm currently testing on a clean test system. After I've selected a set of programs I'll continue testing on a production machine. This also includes VPN software so I'll how all the programs behave.

{QUOTE-> You as Dutchman, will probally know the Hitman Pro software. I think that's the only capable software (-suite) to clean badly infected systems. And the only way to prevent is (in my opinion) use an alternative browser, like Firefox or Opera, and to install only trusted software. Not to forget only visiting thrustwhorty sites as well. <-QUOTE}

The programmers lives in a city near to me and was also featured in the local newspaper. Hitman Pro very popular with ordinary users for cleaning their system. I know some people who use it on a regular bases. It now also features NOD32 which is getting more and more media coverage in The Netherlands.

I agree that not using IE reduces the risk of being infected. The only way to prove that Firefox and Opera are not vulnerable due to obscurity is if the market share increases and they maintain their reputation. Besides browsers and P2P I also see a lot of people with teenage kids getting infected by IM software such as MSN, but that's another topic.

[ellison64]

Mmmm I was going to trial pestpatrol , but thier trial conditions seem rather draconian to me.Maybe i m paranoid but i dont fancy giving my credit card number out for a 30 day trial.
https://home.ca.com/dr/v2/ec_MAIN.Entry10?SP=10034&PN=1&xid=64459&V1=1369465&CID=192824

ellison

[ellison64]

I guess theres two pest patrols?Trust me to find the awkward one first !!.
Apologies
ellison

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> I guess theres two pest patrols?Trust me to find the awkward one first !!.
<-QUOTE}
You get Pestpatrol v5 1 year licensed for free here (http://www.ca.com/de/dsin/).;)

No registration, credit card numbers, name of your girlfriend or anything else needed.:)

Didn't you read my old thread (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=103230&highlight=Pestpatrol) about the subject????

[ellison64]

I did see that thread but must have misread it , as i thought you had to have the ez antivirus too.I must say i got confused because when i googled for trial links , some gave me links like tucows ,however when i downloaded it was the coporate edition..grrr ...which wont run on my system.Thanks for the link.Ill try that.
ellison

[Smokey]

{QUOTE-> IThanks for the link.Ill try that.
<-QUOTE}The link is still open;)

Tested it 20 minutes ago:)

[Simon Phoenix]

{QUOTE-> The only good commercial application is PestPatrol.

. <-QUOTE}

Disagree, pestpatrol isn't a smart move for a home user, especially one who isn't really security savvy, I've had to re-install a couple programs that pestpatrol took as spyware.

I would more favor spysweeper for a home user, much better program overall, Pestpatrol is very hard....to hard for someone who isn't aware of security.

[JerryM]

I don't have the expertise of those here, but I use Counterspy along with the free programs, and I stay clean. I also use BD, and Ewido.
Jerry

[rdsu]

Some AV's are doing a great job by adding signatures for spyware and adware, and improves it's heuristics for the same...

About an AntiSpyware, the best in my opinion, but only for on-demand because all of them use a lot of recources, is the CounterSpy.

Arovax AntiSpyware seems to me that will be great, small and really fast, but will have to wait for the final release to see...

[diginsight]

{QUOTE-> About an AntiSpyware, the best in my opinion, but only for on-demand because all of them use a lot of recources, is the CounterSpy. <-QUOTE}

I had the same idea using v1.5, but couldn't disable it. After reading the comments about sunserver on TASK LIST PROGRAMS — S (http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist_s.htm) I finally gave up.

{QUOTE->
2) The above problem is made worse by the fact that you cannot prevent some of the background processes from running – if this icon is running then the other two background processes, SUNPROTECTIONSERVER and SUNTHREATENGINE also run even if you have disabled all real‑time protection from within CounterSpy. This is crazy – you can turn off features but that still does not terminate the memory hungry programs which implement those features !
3) Unfortunately it gets worse, and the following is the part that specifically annoyed us : having noted how much memory CounterSpy was using, and the fact that disabling Active Protection and all other real‑time settings had no effect on getting rid of the two unwanted CounterSpy processes, we decided to disable this process on the Startups tab of The Ultimate Troubleshooter because there is no option within CounterSpy to enable or disable automatic startup with Windows – we simply wanted to use CounterSpy as a spyware & adware scanner to run when we wanted to, not automatically. We rebooted : no SUNSERVER icon in the System Tray and no CounterSpy SUNSERVER background process. Aim achieved. Or so we thought. We then checked the Tasks tab of TUT only to find that SUNPROTECTIONSERVER and SUNTHREATENGINE were still loaded and using 50Mb of RAM !! This is because Sunbelt Software loads them, against all de‑facto conventions of “trusted behaviour”, through the Windows Registry Key HKLM \ Microsoft \ Windows \ CurrentVersion \ SharedDLLs. We were aghast – no average Windows user would be able to work this out, whether they used TUT, MSConfig, or otherwise ! But it got worse : we then opened the main CounterSpy program, did a scan to see if it would pick up the spyware we had deliberately installed, we rebooted, and then found that the mere process of opening the main CounterSpy program, re‑inserts the System Tray icon, SUNSERVER, as a startup on the Startups tab of TUT. Software behaviour where you can’t turn off the software unless you uninstall it, where the software re‑installs itself as a startup every time you use it, and where the software uses non-conventional automatic startup methods hidden from most Windows and 3rd party startup configuration programs, is the typical behaviour of some of the worst spyware and adware programs, and, at the time of writing, CounterSpy behaves just the same !
<-QUOTE}

[rdsu]

{QUOTE-> I had the same idea using v1.5, but couldn't disable it. After reading the comments about sunserver on TASK LIST PROGRAMS — S (http://www.answersthatwork.com/Tasklist_pages/tasklist_s.htm) I finally gave up. <-QUOTE}
I agree that this is very annoying :(

On the last version, you just have the shure that you have the Active Protection disabled and also disable the "SunServer.exe" to run on Windows Startup...

Regards