Dedicated FirstDefense Forum

[Flack]

I was wondering if anyone know about a dedicated portion of a forum board to FirstDefense.

I just discovered this product to my great delight.

I am going to be using it along with True Image for my bare metal back-ups.

Cheers,
Flack

[Blackcat]

As far as I know there are no OFFICIAL forums for FD.

BUT just carry out a search here and you will find a number of threads; here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=98040&highlight=Defense) and here (http://www.wilderssecurity.com/showthread.php?t=76678&highlight=Defense) for example.

And there are a number of long-term users here such as Acadia who I am sure will offer help if needed.

I am also a newbie to FD and still trying to get my head around the different snapshots.

[Peter2150]

Hi Flack

Good choice. It is amazing how much First Defense has made my life easier. If you test software it is great, as you can totally remove things like no uninstaller can. I wouldn't be without it.

Pete

[Flack]

Hi Pete/Blackcat,

For me, it helps in so many ways. First, I have taken a snapshot of my core OS install with updates and the basic programs of Microsoft Office. I will then go on to load all my other programs. It will save so much time if I ever want to come back to this basic install. I will also take a snap shot of my computer after everything is installed but before I really start using it.

I will update this snap shot over time with the latest programs or updates I have done (probably trail it a little in time to make sure the programs are safe). This way I keep a fully clean version of my system going in parrallel track to the one I am actually using. To me, this is the only way to handle all the crap like Spyware, stuff that just collects on your system, and malicious code.

The other method of trying to "clean" your system of it while also running a whole host of programs to prevent it just seems like an arms race with each side pushing forward but all of us in the middle never really winning. And, it takes up way too much time. I will still install the basic stuff for this, but I am no longer going to chase it hard.

I can just take my pristine snapshot that never sees real use and place it over my current active desktop so I am to replace my active one so I am back using a system that is like I just freshly installed everything.

This also handles what most of my family and friend complain to me about their system now "running too slow". In my work, I see people buying new computers all the time because of this. If they just re-installed their programs, they would be amazed at how fast the computer is again. They blame the hardware when it is just the software that has become bogged down.

The final thing I love this is what you mentioned, Pete. Not only can I test without worrying about messing up my real desktop, but I am also not locked into the 30 day reality that most test software limits. They place pieces of code on your computer that would be nearly impossible to find (unless using a program specifically designed to track the install process) which prevents you from reloading their software again to test another 30 days. This is not an effort to get around for paying for software I actually use. I really do pay for software I use because I believe you should support those providing real value.

My problem is that I am testing so so much software that I hate being limited to the 30 days. Many times I will be researching a whole category of software products for my job where I will be loading 8 to 10 different similar programs. I want to be able to tinker with these programs at my own pace. Usually, I am also testing more than one category at a time.

I can go on a bit about this. I don't know if it is healthy psychologically to say you are in love with a piece of software or not, but I am coming real close.

A software that provides this capability should really have its own forum space. It might not be appropriate for for Wilders, but I got to believe it fits inside someone's forum categories.

I am going to have all my family load it. I tend to have to fix things/save the day when things go wrong so it will save me a ton of time with everyone else's computers.

Cheers,
Flack

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hi Pete/Blackcat,


I can go on a bit about this. I don't know if it is healthy psychologically to say you are in love with a piece of software or not, but I am coming real close.


Cheers,
Flack <-QUOTE}


I know what you mean, and it can become a quick love affair. I had a friend who is a network "specialist" over recently to give me hand with a network issue. He saw FDISR and a few other things and said he didn't believe in all that junk. A few minutes later after tinkering, he rebooted my computer and it came up with a missing system file message. He groaned and said I hope you have your system disk and that we might be here a while. I just said watch, and did the 5 minute FDISR fix. He just asked where you get it, and now has it on his machines. Oh yeah, you can fall in love with this baby.

Pete

[deviladvocate]

Peter seems hard to argue against a backup solution. But he still thinks all the other stuff ("few other things") on your software are junk correct? Just curious what are those things?

[Acadia]

Flack, while your idea is a good idea, I think that it would be asking too much of Paul to host a dedicated FD forum. Unfortunately, FD is just not all that popular yet (it is truly an undiscovered gem) so I don't know how much use the forum would see. Plus, Raxco tech support still remains very good at this point. Some of the dedicated forums were needed, well, in my opinion anyway, because some of the software companies tech support (I will not name names because I'm sure that it does not apply in all cases) left much to be desired. While I am hoping that FirstDefense's popularity grows because of all the folks that it could help, I am hoping that Raxco does not become another Norton as far as tech support goes; I can remember the days when Norton tech support won awards and I never waited more than 24 hours for an answer! :'(

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter seems hard to argue against a backup solution. But he still thinks all the other stuff ("few other things") on your software are junk correct? Just curious what are those things? <-QUOTE}

Hi Devilsadvocate

Not sure what you mean of if you think I am arguing against a backup solution. Quite to the contrary. First Defense in the traditional sense doesn't help in a hard disk failure. The new archive feature does start to change that. Just so there is no doubt, backup is also crucial to me in that I use Ghost 2003,Acronis True Image, and Retrospect to backup. Its just all these backup solutons do have restore issues at time, and then there is the time factor. None of them can restore a drive in 5 minutes. So for anything short of hardware failure First Defense is the champ.

Pwrw

[WWS]

{QUOTE-> FD is just not all that popular yet (it is truly an undiscovered gem) so I don't know how much use the forum would see.

Acadia <-QUOTE}
Besides, what goes wrong with it. Just look at this post that Flack started...nothing but praise for FDISR.
For me, there were instances where I wasn't using it right and/or didn't understand something or other. And now, I just plop down in the secondary and download/experiment with anything knowing I can recover just by rebooting to another snapshot.
And now FDISR has gotten better with the abilty to archive a snapshot on another drive.
I also use Acronis True Image. In the last 3 years I have only had to use it once because I misused f-disk and wiped out my primary. Now if I need to use True Image again and it fails, I've got a FDISR snapshot on the 2nd HDD to back that image up.

[Farq]

This is the first I've heard about FirstDefense. Can anyone answer a couple of questions about it?

Is FirstDefense like Norton's GoBack?

What is the memory footprint on it?

Thanks

[deviladvocate]

{QUOTE-> Hi Devilsadvocate

Not sure what you mean of if you think I am arguing against a backup solution.
<-QUOTE}

Huh? I'm not saying or thinking that at all. I'm saying your friend is still not convinced about the other stuff on your computer yes?

[Blackcat]

{QUOTE-> This is the first I've heard about FirstDefense. Can anyone answer a couple of questions about it?

Is FirstDefense like Norton's GoBack? <-QUOTE}
Well yes in the fact that they are roll back programs.

But there are major differences between the 2 products and they are listed here. (http://www.raxco.com/products/fdisr/FD_vs_GoBack.pdf)

One of the main differences is that GoBack is continually working in the background, monitoring all writes to your hard disc. So system performance can be considerably affected, particularly on older machines. In contrast, FD simply takes a snapshot(s) of your hard drive and there is no continuous monitoring. Therefore, memory/resource usage is minimal, as stated below.
{QUOTE-> What is the memory footprint on it? <-QUOTE}
Only 1 running process; ISRService.exe taking up only 632k VM!!!!! A very small footprint!!!

[Farq]

Thanks Blackcat. The memory hogging issue of GB was a major concern. One more question please.

Can you schedule a snapshot or does the program snap the image unannounced?

Thanks again,
Farq

"The more you know, the more you know there is more to know" - Anonymous

[Farq]

Disregard my last post. Found the answer on the link in Blackcat's post. Silly me.

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Thanks Blackcat. The memory hogging issue of GB was a major concern. One more question please.

Can you schedule a snapshot or does the program snap the image unannounced?

Thanks again,
Farq

"The more you know, the more you know there is more to know" - Anonymous <-QUOTE}

You can schedule it or run it manually. If you have PG, then you'll have to do it manually, because you have to shutdown PG in order to copy the PG files, which you'd want if you're testing. And remember to turn PG on in both the Primary and Test snapshots before doing anything else.

And for HDD failure, copy to another HDD weekly and/or use RAID 1 for your system drive.

Get FD, it really is great. I've used it for over a year now to provide a secure testing environment. If I don't like something, I just copy the good snapshot over the test one. If I do like it, I install it in the Primary.

Jim

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Huh? I'm not saying or thinking that at all. I'm saying your friend is still not convinced about the other stuff on your computer yes? <-QUOTE}

@Deviladvocate

Sorry about that, I misunderstood your meaning, and yes I suspect you are right. But thats okay.

@farq

This is one big difference between GoBack and FDISR. To illustrate, I use a spreadsheet in my work, and it gets resaved frequently. Do to the way Goback worked, I could retrieve multiple versions of that file as far back as the history permitted. I don't have this feature with Goback. My solution to this was a program called AJC Active Backup. It monitors certain specified directories and file types, and when one of them is saved, it archives it. Allows me to find previous versions of the same file. Inexpensive(not free) and virtuall no overhead.

With Goback and found virtually no overhead, but what I didn't like is if I did something like a defrag, and forgot to suspend it, poof all history gone. That was the killer factor for me.

Pete

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> @Deviladvocate

Sorry about that, I misunderstood your meaning, and yes I suspect you are right. But thats okay.

@farq

This is one big difference between GoBack and FDISR. To illustrate, I use a spreadsheet in my work, and it gets resaved frequently. Do to the way Goback worked, I could retrieve multiple versions of that file as far back as the history permitted. I don't have this feature with Goback. My solution to this was a program called AJC Active Backup. It monitors certain specified directories and file types, and when one of them is saved, it archives it. Allows me to find previous versions of the same file. Inexpensive(not free) and virtuall no overhead.

With Goback and found virtually no overhead, but what I didn't like is if I did something like a defrag, and forgot to suspend it, poof all history gone. That was the killer factor for me.

Pete <-QUOTE}

Hi Pete, I think you meant that FDISR doesn't have the feature, but, having said that, NTIUS also has a real-time backup program called NTI Shadow. Also not free, but they had a promo for $0.99USD which is quite close to free.
Jim

[Acadia]

If you use the Wilder's search feature, you will find at least a couple of lengthly threads comparing FD and GoBack. Let's be fair here, one bad thing about FD, and possibly the only bad thing, is that it will take up even more hard disk space than GoBack will, in fact, probably substantially more ... other than that, I prefer FD to Goback, and I am a GoBack fan.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

@Jim

Yup you are right. FIngers and brain got disconnected.



I am in the same camp as Acadia. I really did love GoBack. Thing that scared me was I had a friend install it, and she felt good about it. Updated Zone Alarm at a time they were having problems, but was unconcerned because of Goback. BUT... her hubby processed some huge photo files, and that blew away all the goback history. Fortunately she didn't have any problems. That scared me and when I saw FDISR, there was no looking back.

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> Plus, Raxco tech support still remains very good at this point. <-QUOTE}I might be wrong, but it looks like Raxco isn't the originator for FirstDefense. A company called Leapfrog Software Inc. (http://www.leapfrogsoftware.com) seem to be the originators, and companies like Software Pursuits, which produces BootBack (http://www.spursuits.com/bootback/), are using versions of the same software it seems.

[Acadia]

FirstDefense-ISR was a co-development effort between Raxco Software and Leapfrog Software, Inc.

Leapfrog Software, Inc. (LSI) was founded in November 2001 and incorporated in June 2002 after an extensive marketing and development effort for FirstDefense-ISR.

The core code was developed by some guy named Lear and is now distributed through several partners, including Raxco under the ISR First Defense Label.

http://www.findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_pwwi/is_200311/ai_mark1657172532

http://redmondmag.com/reviews/article.asp?editorialsid=523

Acadia

[hollywoodpc]

I too , am a user of this great program ! Support CAN be good depending on who you deal with . The program is excellent !

[Peter2150]

Fascinating read about what is clearly my favorite program. Support I guess is relative to your perspective. When I've had problems I've just picked up the phone and called my favorite tech, Jason Claiborne. I usually have no trouble getting him, and then the help is A+++

Pete

[Reve_Etrange]

{QUOTE-> let's be fair here, one bad thing about FD, and possibly the only bad thing, <-QUOTE}
What about 'no localization'? Is it, like, it's not worth it, or all develpment is frozen?

-RE

[Acadia]

Yo, Blackcat, is that a built-in MS program that gave you the usage information, or is that a third party software? Kind of looks like Windows Task Manager but I could not find those particular screens. Thanks.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> What about 'no localization'? Is it, like, it's not worth it, or all develpment is frozen?

-RE <-QUOTE}

What do you mean, no localization??

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> all develpment is frozen? <-QUOTE}I don't think development is frozen. Leapfrog's version was updated a few days ago, and Raxco last issued an update this summer.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> I don't think development is frozen. Leapfrog's version was updated a few days ago, and Raxco last issued an update this summer. <-QUOTE}
And I was informed by the head of Raxco Tech Support just two weeks ago that they are already working on their next build.

Acadia

[TonyW]

By the way Acadia, I've dumped RestoreIt, and am testing FD now.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> By the way Acadia, I've dumped RestoreIt, and am testing FD now. <-QUOTE}
Why? Is there something that you did not like about RestoreIt? I have never used it but it sounds interesting (but complicated).

Acadia

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> Why? Is there something that you did not like about RestoreIt? <-QUOTE}It's a good and interesting program to work with, but my issue with it was the ever increasing incremental backup size.

When the program is installed, it creates a hidden partition, and in my case, was working with over 2.8GB space for the backup points. I had three backup points created over the course of 2 days, and the most recent backup point kept increasing in size to a point where the main program interface was showing 30% used. Even having just one incremental backup point soon escalated in size.

I realise one can customise the size of the partition at installation thereby create more space for the program to do its job, but I chose recommended in this case. However, that isn't the point as I couldn't understand why the incremental backup point was doing this. It certainly doesn't log everything as a restore after creating a document didn't bring that up again - one would have to create a backup point after creating that document to ensure it was restored. Perhaps it's logging system files, I dunno. ??? I wonder if GoBack does the same as I'm aware that continuously monitors changes.

In any event, it wasn't really what I was after in terms of being able to rollback to an earlier version, which FD seems to be more in line with that as one can work with a set number of snapshots.

[Acadia]

Tony, a word of warning; I LOVE FirstDefense, it is the best program for me that I have ever owned, BUT, it uses more disk space than any backup program that I have ever used. That is not a problem for me, I have tons and tons of free disk space, but if you do not like the amount of disk space that either RestoreIt or Goback uses, then you will NOT like Firstdefense; it uses much more! Each and every snapshot will be the same size as your c:drive. If you have 5gigs on your hard drive used up in your c:drive, and you make a Snapshot, you now have 10gigs used up. Make a second Snapshot, now you 15gigs used up. I have the maximum of TEN Snapshots; my slightly over 4gig c:drive now takes almost 45 gigs of my hard drive space, again, not a problem for me because I have the space and love the protection and flexibility that FD gives to me.

You would not have the same problem with Goback that you described with RestoreIt. Goback claims a certain amount of disk space but that is it; it never goes beyond that amount. Older info constanly gets deleted as newer info comes into the Goback history bin. This works nice but it limits the amount of time that you can "go back". With Firstdefense you can go back YEARS if you want to ... AND if you have the disk space.

[Reve_Etrange]

{QUOTE-> What do you mean, no localization?? <-QUOTE}
I mean, non-English versions of windows are not supported...

-RE

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> I mean, non-English versions of windows are not supported...

-RE <-QUOTE}

Ah. About all I can suggest, is writing their marketing people and requesting non-English support.

Pete

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> if you do not like the amount of disk space that either RestoreIt or Goback uses, then you will NOT like Firstdefense; it uses much more! Each and every snapshot will be the same size as your c:drive. <-QUOTE}It isn't the amount of disk space that I'm concerned with. As far as FD goes, it isn't really a problem as (a) one knows how much is used up per snapshot, and (b) the figures are static until updated. My beef with RestoreIt is that the current backup point was continually increasing in size; if the incremental backup point was made and remained static then I think it would be more manageable (earlier backup points remained static - it's the latest one created that increases in size, and I noticed this over a full day without making any other backups). Unless I'm missing the point somewhere.

[Rainwalker]

{QUOTE-> It isn't the amount of disk space that I'm concerned with. As far as FD goes, it isn't really a problem as (a) one knows how much is used up per snapshot, and (b) the figures are static until updated. My beef with RestoreIt is that the current backup point was continually increasing in size; if the incremental backup point was made and remained static then I think it would be more manageable (earlier backup points remained static - it's the latest one created that increases in size, and I noticed this over a full day without making any other backups). Unless I'm missing the point somewhere. <-QUOTE}
Anyone else have more info on this steady incremental size increase ?
BTW..is it true that FD will not dump snapshots during a defrag ?

[Acadia]

{QUOTE->
BTW..is it true that FD will not dump snapshots during a defrag ? <-QUOTE}
You can defrag to your heart's content with FD installed, and you do not have to disable it. The Snapshots are not affected in any adverse way during defrag; they just get defragged along with the rest of your hard drive, I asked tech support about this once.

Acadia

[Rainwalker]

{QUOTE-> You can defrag to your heart's content with FD installed, and you do not have to disable it. The Snapshots are not affected in any adverse way during defrag; they just get defragged along with the rest of your hard drive, I asked tech support about this once.

Acadia <-QUOTE}
That's cool...

[Acadia]

Rainwalker, I just remembered one thing, make sure whatever defrag program you are using does not move the Master Boot Record:

http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/fdisr/fdisr_faqs.cfm

The MBR is mentioned a couple of times on this faq. It is no longer quite the problem that is used to be, but still worth a read. Note: this has nothing to do with Snapshots being deleted or dumped.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

Although Jason has told me it is no longer critical it is better if the $isr.bin file isn't moved. THis is also covered in the faq.

Pete

[Acadia]

Oops, Peter is right, it is the bin and not the MBR that gets moved.

Acadia

[Reve_Etrange]

{QUOTE-> Ah. About all I can suggest, is writing their marketing people and requesting non-English support.

Pete <-QUOTE}
I'm trialling restoreIT instead. That's too bad, b/c I bought perfectdisk a week ago and I would have been willing to give that FDISR thing a spin. Oh well...

-RE

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> I'm trialling restoreIT instead. <-QUOTE}
Let us know how you like RestoreIt, sounds interesting.

Acadia

[Rui]

I am also unable to use FDISR.
Would like very much to know of Reve Etrange opinion about RestoreIt, too!
Rui

[Reve_Etrange]

Installation is not smoothless. I got some BSODs (XP-SP2), although I made sure to disable PG, regdefend, outpost and co. On a couple of occasion, I've had to reboot the machine twice in a row to get it work.
I firstly went for the typical install, which unfortunately didn't do what I want: it created a smallish hidden partition at then end of my drive, while I wanted it to take all the free space there. Ok, I guess it's my bad, though I expected to get a prompt or a confirmation for such critical things. Anyway, as I want to save a full backup on this partition, I've had to uninstall and re-install the whole thing (in custom mode this time), with again some more BSODs. Can make you feel a bit nervous (yeah I got backups, but don't want now to make sure they work). The crashes may be due to some incompatiblity with other low-level softs eg. (pre-symantec) powerquest softs.
Anyway, I managed to make a full backup on the RIT partition, took 2hr for a 80GB partition. In order to do so RIT needs to restart the machine in what it calls Realtime mode. This is actually the core functionalities of RIT available at boot time, before the OS is loaded (sounds logical). That Realtime thing let you press the spacebar during a couple of sec at boot time, even if you have not planned any operation, so that you can get back to a previous backup (you can select which one of coutse).
Don't let the +100pages manual daunt you, it is full of screenshots and with a single centered, narrow column. Well, I mean it's no rocket science, there are full backups either stored on a file system or in the RIT hidden partition, and you make incremental backups on top of that. With the pro version, you can clone partitions or create an image of your whole drive on umpteen DVD or on an external drive. There's also a file-level backup module, which lets you configure what files and dirs you want to monitor, and thru hooks RIT knows when you modify something and automatically make backups of these files. You can specify what extensions you want to monitor (doc, xls, ppt etc). That's not my cup of tea so I disabled it, but it's up to you. There's also a backup previewer that let you browser your backups at the file level, but I haven't had time to play with this one yet.
The UI is not that great, though not bad either. RIT doesn't seem to slow anything down, though I've no hard measures to back that. And remember, I've disabled file-level monitoring. If the system remains stable for some days, I'll try to restore a backup, but again I'm not so confident in my ol' powerquest drive image (trialled TI9 and had to uninstall it for the reasons we all know), so I wouldn't want to end up with toasters and a to-be-formatted HD.

-RE

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> and you make incremental backups on top of that. <-QUOTE}Can you comment on the incremental backups please? In particular in reference to the latest incremental backup point, and if it gradually increases in size.

[Rui]

Hi Reve Etrange

Thank you very much for sharing your experience with RestoreIt!
After reading what you have posted I guess I wiil not be trailing it.
By the way, if this information is useful to you, I am using Image For DOS as my imaging/system recovery tool.
It works flawlessly, according to my experience.
After trying Norton Ghost 2003 and Acronis True Image I have found -at last - an imaging tool that gives me peace of mind!...
You can find it at http://www.terabyteunlimited.com
There is also Image for Windows from Terabyte, but I have never tried it.
Please note that both these two applications cannot restore files on an individual basis - you can only restore the full image!
You can also try DriveSnapshot at
http://www.drivesnapshot.com
Its author (Tom Ehlert) claims that Drive Snapshot is capable of restoring single files from a previously recorded image.
Hope this information is useful!
Best regards
Rui

[Peter2150]

Hi Rui

How does the speed of Image for DOS compare with that of Ghost 2003. I thing ghost 2003 is reliable but it is slow as hades. For 20gig of space it takes an hour and a half to image and verify.

Pete

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rui

How does the speed of Image for DOS compare with that of Ghost 2003. I thing ghost 2003 is reliable but it is slow as hades. For 20gig of space it takes an hour and a half to image and verify.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Pete

I have not timed accurately Image for Dos imaging and verifying operations. Anyway, my 120 GB C: drive takes less than three hours to get imaged (including verification). I suggest you download the trial version and give it a try , in order to compare times.
Let me know if you need any further assistance, as well as your opinion about IFD, if you are really going to to try it!
Best regards

Rui

[Peter2150]

Thanks Rui

Pete

[Rui]

Pete

You are welcome!
I forgot to mention that you can try IFD without fear of adding permanently any files or registry entries to your system. IFD runs from a floppy or a CD-R and it is quite simple to operate.
Best regards

Rui

[TonyW]

Just for the record, I didn't get any BSODs when I installed RestoreIt. It installed without any problems on my Windows XP Home system.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Pete

You are welcome!
I forgot to mention that you can try IFD without fear of adding permanently any files or registry entries to your system. IFD runs from a floppy or a CD-R and it is quite simple to operate.
Best regards

Rui <-QUOTE}

Thank Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Just for the record, I didn't get any BSODs when I installed RestoreIt. It installed without any problems on my Windows XP Home system. <-QUOTE}

TonyW

So, what is your opinion about RestoreIt?
Does it provides an interesting added value, if you already have an imaging application like Image For Dos?
I myself can only think of three advantages RestoreIt may have over an imaging application working under DOS :

(1) Faster operation, providing you are keeping RestoreIt created files in your main HD (although in a separate partition);
(2) Ability to restore individual files, and
(3) Possibility of creating incremental backups, thus reducing the time spent in restoring operations.

How many time does it take to create/restore an incremental backup in RestoreIT?

Do you find RestoreIt reliable?

Your comments and answers to these questions would be very appreciated.

Best regards

Rui

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Pete

You are welcome!
I forgot to mention that you can try IFD without fear of adding permanently any files or registry entries to your system. IFD runs from a floppy or a CD-R and it is quite simple to operate.
Best regards

Rui <-QUOTE}

I have IFD running, but it looks like it will be as slow as Ghost 2003. I may try the Windows version, and see if that builds an image faster. Reason I am doing this is I just don't trust Acronis True Image.

Pete

Update. Aborted the DOS version. 30 minutes in and only 12% done. Going to try the windows version.

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> I have IFD running, but it looks like it will be as slow as Ghost 2003. I may try the Windows version, and see if that builds an image faster. Reason I am doing this is I just don't trust Acronis True Image.

Pete

Update. Aborted the DOS version. 30 minutes in and only 12% done. Going to try the windows version. <-QUOTE}

Pete

Sorry about that inconvenience.
However, I am afraid the imaging process won't be faster when performed by the Windows version. But, in this case, you will be able to use the computter while the image is being done. I guess that this is the advantage of the Windows version. I only hope it will be as reliable as the DOS version.
Please don't forget to post baxk your results and opinions!
Best regards

Rui

[Acadia]

Yo, fellows, Imaging programs definitely deserve their secure and deserved spot in the backup world, but these INSTANT recovery programs (FD, GB, RI, etc.) are called "instant" for a reason! ;D

Acadia

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Yo, fellows, Imaging programs definitely their secure and deserved spot in the backup world, but these INSTANT recovery programs (FD, GB, RI, etc.) are called "instant" for a reason! ;D

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Acadia

Well, I guess the applications you are referring to are less INSTANT consuming than imaging ones like IFD or Norton Ghost... ;D

Rui

[Peter2150]

Yep, 3-5 minutes for a FDISR copy sure beats the image.

Hi Rui. Image for windows seems to fit the bill, as a Ghost replacement. Think I am going for it.

Thanks, Pete

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Tony, a word of warning; I LOVE FirstDefense, it is the best program for me that I have ever owned, BUT, it uses more disk space than any backup program that I have ever used. That is not a problem for me, I have tons and tons of free disk space, but if you do not like the amount of disk space that either RestoreIt or Goback uses, then you will NOT like Firstdefense; it uses much more! Each and every snapshot will be the same size as your c:drive. If you have 5gigs on your hard drive used up in your c:drive, and you make a Snapshot, you now have 10gigs used up. Make a second Snapshot, now you 15gigs used up. I have the maximum of TEN Snapshots; my slightly over 4gig c:drive now takes almost 45 gigs of my hard drive space, again, not a problem for me because I have the space and love the protection and flexibility that FD gives to me.

You would not have the same problem with Goback that you described with RestoreIt. Goback claims a certain amount of disk space but that is it; it never goes beyond that amount. Older info constanly gets deleted as newer info comes into the Goback history bin. This works nice but it limits the amount of time that you can "go back". With Firstdefense you can go back YEARS if you want to ... AND if you have the disk space. <-QUOTE}

10 snapshots is a lot! I keep the Primary in pristine condition, have snapshots for W2K install and hardware and W2K with security apps installed just in case, and then a testing snapshot, for risky business. It's been great, especially in beta testing.

I also copy my entire drive to another backup drive (same size) every few weeks in case I have a hardware issue.

But FD 'rocks'! It's the one app that I can't do without. The disk copy software is the same. Sony can't get me in trouble!

Another thing to note, when I bought Perfect Disk, Raxco sent an offer for 50% off any other product and I picked up FD for $25.00, a real bagain....

Jim

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> So, what is your opinion about RestoreIt? <-QUOTE}It's a nice program with an easy-to-understand interface, and didn't seem to drag on my system (WinXP Home SP2).{QUOTE-> How many time does it take to create/restore an incremental backup in RestoreIT? <-QUOTE}Creating an incremental backup point was pretty quick within a minute or less, but a restore from an incremental backup point took about 10 minutes.

But, as I have been saying in previous posts, I found the latest and most recent incremental backup point increasing in size therefore slowly using up the hidden partition. Admittedly, I didn't use the custom setup as I used their recommended settings, which created over 3GB for the partition with about 2.8GB being used for the backup points. By the end of the first day of my trial, 30% of that space was already used with 3 incremental backup points, and the most recent one gaining more bytes as computer was being used.{QUOTE-> Do you find RestoreIt reliable? <-QUOTE}It probably is, but I just don't get why a current incremental backup point has to increase in size after it's made.

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Yep, 3-5 minutes for a FDISR copy sure beats the image.

Hi Rui. Image for windows seems to fit the bill, as a Ghost replacement. Think I am going for it.

Thanks, Pete <-QUOTE}

Pete

Only 3-5 minutes for a FDISR copy???
Well, now I understand what Acadia meant...
It is really a pity I can't use it!!
How many time took the image creation using Image for Windows?
I am glad I have helped you find an adequate Ghost replacement.
Best regards

Rui

[TonyW]

{QUOTE->
Only 3-5 minutes for a FDISR copy??? <-QUOTE}If updating an existing snapshot from another one, it can take as long as that because all it's doing is dealing with changed files. Making a brand new snapshot will take longer depending on the used space that's being "copied".

[Acadia]

What I meant was, was the time spent in recovery from a hosed system, either from a virus, a bad software install, or a stupid mistake. FirstDefense only take me about 5 minutes to COMPLETELY recover from these disasters, even the unbootable ones. In all fairness, GoBack was the same way, about 5 minutes.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

Hi Rui

Image for Windows imaged and verified 22Gb in about 30 minutes. Thats about the same as True image. Just from what people say they have had excellent results compared to True image which can be spotty.

Oh yes FDISR is fast for an update. I also keep an FDISR archive on a external drive, so if I restore a month old image, I can be current very quickly.
First Archive takes about 20 minutes, but refresh only takes about 2 minutes.

Like acadia said, I've trashed my system to the point, I couldn't boot into safe mode, and been backup up totally fixed literally in five minutes.

Thanks for your help and encouragement on IFW.

Pete

[Reve_Etrange]

{QUOTE-> It probably is, but I just don't get why a current incremental backup point has to increase in size after it's made. <-QUOTE}
Gotta check that...

-RE

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rui

Image for Windows imaged and verified 22Gb in about 30 minutes. Thats about the same as True image. Just from what people say they have had excellent results compared to True image which can be spotty.

Oh yes FDISR is fast for an update. I also keep an FDISR archive on a external drive, so if I restore a month old image, I can be current very quickly.
First Archive takes about 20 minutes, but refresh only takes about 2 minutes.

Like acadia said, I've trashed my system to the point, I couldn't boot into safe mode, and been backup up totally fixed literally in five minutes.

Thanks for your help and encouragement on IFW.

Pete <-QUOTE}


Hi Pete

Sorry, but I could only answer your post at this time.
I was not expecting that IFW could image a drive faster than IFD.
Is it possible to keep working on the computer after the drive is locked for imaging?
Thanks for your feedback.
I am glad I could be helpful to you concerning IFW. I am going to try it and see if it is significantly faster than IFD on my system.
Best regards

Rui

[Reve_Etrange]

D*mn that's correct, the inc backups size increase!
Someone already asked their tech support?

-RE

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hi Pete

Sorry, but I could only answer your post at this time.
I was not expecting that IFW could image a drive faster than IFD.
Is it possible to keep working on the computer after the drive is locked for imaging?
Thanks for your feedback.
I am glad I could be helpful to you concerning IFW. I am going to try it and see if it is significantly faster than IFD on my system.
Best regards

Rui <-QUOTE}

Hi Rui


I wasn't surprised. If I image with Acronis from Windows, it takes about 20minutes, but if I do it from the recovery disk it takes about 1.5 hours. Not surprising as it is the difference in how the main drive is accessed.

What I do is Image from windows and verify from the recovery disk. That way I am sure I can get the image. In theory yes you can keep working on your machine, but I've never done that with any imaging or backup. So much can go wrong with software without help from us, so I try and avoid more problems. Just me.

Haven't gotten TBFView to work yet, but am working on that.

Terabyte support has been excellent. Very quick responses.

Pete

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rui


I wasn't surprised. If I image with Acronis from Windows, it takes about 20minutes, but if I do it from the recovery disk it takes about 1.5 hours. Not surprising as it is the difference in how the main drive is accessed.

What I do is Image from windows and verify from the recovery disk. That way I am sure I can get the image. In theory yes you can keep working on your machine, but I've never done that with any imaging or backup. So much can go wrong with software without help from us, so I try and avoid more problems. Just me.

Haven't gotten TBFView to work yet, but am working on that.

Terabyte support has been excellent. Very quick responses.

Pete <-QUOTE}


HI Pete

Thanks for posting back!:)
Well, after seeing your information, I decided to try IFW.
Even If I know now that time imaging differences have to do with the way the HD is accessed, it is a remarkable difference! So:
With IFD it takes 70 minutes to image and verify, against the 20 minutes it takes with IFW (8 minutes copy + 12 verify operation). My HD has an amount of 15 GB in information.

I experimented with continuing to work with the computer (browsing) and nothing peculiar happened.

On the other hand, if I try to restore the image from IFW directly to my system drive, I am unable to do it, as I get the message that the system could not be locked. I guess you have to restore through IFD (and that it's no problem, as when you purchase IFW you get also IFD).

I have also contacted Terabyte support and I am very well impressed with their responsivenes, too.

Probably, I am going to buy IFW, too. Just tired of always having to wait more than one hour to get the image done.

Please let me know if I can provide you with any further help. If in need, feel free to PM me.

Best regards

Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> It's a nice program with an easy-to-understand interface, and didn't seem to drag on my system (WinXP Home SP2).Creating an incremental backup point was pretty quick within a minute or less, but a restore from an incremental backup point took about 10 minutes.

But, as I have been saying in previous posts, I found the latest and most recent incremental backup point increasing in size therefore slowly using up the hidden partition. Admittedly, I didn't use the custom setup as I used their recommended settings, which created over 3GB for the partition with about 2.8GB being used for the backup points. By the end of the first day of my trial, 30% of that space was already used with 3 incremental backup points, and the most recent one gaining more bytes as computer was being used.It probably is, but I just don't get why a current incremental backup point has to increase in size after it's made. <-QUOTE}

Hi TonyW

Sorry, but I was nort able to acknowledge your post sooner.
Thank you very much for sharing the information and answering my questions.:)

There are two things which I dislike in RestoreIt:

(1) Using one hidden partition to store image/backup files, and
(2) Incremental backups increasing its size in the hiden partition, a fact confirmed by Reve Etrange.

Also, if restoring from an incremental backup point takes 10 minutes, how much time does a take to restore from a complete backup image?

Probably I am going to contact RestoreIt tech support and inquire about incremental backup points increasing.

Again thank you very much for sharing your experience with RestoreIt!

Best regards

Rui

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> D*mn that's correct, the inc backups size increase!
Someone already asked their tech support?

-RE <-QUOTE}

I have already contacted Farstone tech support.
I will post the answer after receiving it.
Regards
Rui

[Rui]

Hi Pete

It took 12 minutes to restore (using IFD) an image created with IFW and kept in my secondary HD. Restored perfectly!
Best regards
Rui

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Hi Pete

It took 12 minutes to restore (using IFD) an image created with IFW and kept in my secondary HD. Restored perfectly!
Best regards
Rui <-QUOTE}

Hi Rui

Thats great. I've never actually restored an image. Hate to chance something going wrong when it isn't broken. Don't know if thats wise or not, but.... Anyway from all I've heard IFW and IFD have proved pretty reliable. Acronis has it's issues as one can see in the forum.

Take care,

Pete

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Hi Rui

Thats great. I've never actually restored an image. Hate to chance something going wrong when it isn't broken. Don't know if thats wise or not, but.... Anyway from all I've heard IFW and IFD have proved pretty reliable. Acronis has it's issues as one can see in the forum.

Take care,

Pete <-QUOTE}

Hi Pete

I have switched from Acronis to IFD because - at least in my system - True Image was buggy and not adequately reliable. And, in my opinion, an imaging/backup application HAS TO BE 100% RELIABLE!

I have only tried IFW once and today, but concerning IFD what I can say is that it has proved its reliability more than a dozen times! Always worked flawlessly for me. Period.

Take care you, too.

Rui

[Acadia]

Yo, got a question for you folks using FirstDefense: Any of you also using NOD32?

For fun, I went into one of the Snapshots that I use for testing new software, deleted my Norton2005 anti-virus, and installed the TRIAL version of NOD32. Then I decided to run an on-demand scan of my c:drive. Whoa, I discovered that NOD was scanning ALL TEN OF MY SNAPSHOTS, (all of my ten c:drives) not just my "active" c:drive. This would have taken forever; Norton only scanned my active c:drive.

If any of you FD users also use NOD, is there a way to exclude the other c:drives (Snapshots) from an on-demand scan? Thank you.

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Yo, got a question for you folks using FirstDefense: Any of you also using NOD32?

For fun, I went into one of the Snapshots that I use for testing new software, deleted my Norton2005 anti-virus, and installed the TRIAL version of NOD32. Then I decided to run an on-demand scan of my c:drive. Whoa, I discovered that NOD was scanning ALL TEN OF MY SNAPSHOTS, (all of my ten c:drives) not just my "active" c:drive. This would have taken forever; Norton only scanned my active c:drive.

If any of you FD users also use NOD, is there a way to exclude the other c:drives (Snapshots) from an on-demand scan? Thank you.

Acadia <-QUOTE}

Hi Acadia

Interesting. I know all my backup software takes all the snapshots. KAV beta doesn't when run from primary snapshot. I've never tried it from the other snaps. Might refresh you test one, and then install NOD in the primary and see if it makes a difference.

Pete

[Peter2150]

Hey Acadia

Have you considered trying one extra snapshot on your hard drive, and 10 archives. Switching, would involve copying from archive to snapshot but thats really fast. Interesting idea.

Pete

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> I know all my backup software takes all the snapshots. KAV beta doesn't when run from primary snapshot. I've never tried it from the other snaps. Might refresh you test one, and then install NOD in the primary and see if it makes a difference. <-QUOTE}

Peter, you've lost me on your reply. My backup software, old versions of TrueImage and DriveImage, take all my Snapshots also, but that has nothing to do with my anti-virus. Do you have any idea why KAV does not work in your Primary Snapshot? When I load a Snapshot, it does not matter which one, it literally becomes my c:drive, all other Snapshots, for all intents and purposes, cease to exist until the next time I make them my c:drive, so NOD would have the exact same effect in any Snapshot.

Your archive idea sound interesting but don't know if I would go thru all that trouble simply to switch AV.


Thanks,
Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Peter, you've lost me on your reply. My backup software, old versions of TrueImage and DriveImage, take all my Snapshots also, but that has nothing to do with my anti-virus. Do you have any idea why KAV does not work in your Primary Snapshot? When I load a Snapshot, it does not matter which one, it literally becomes my c:drive, all other Snapshots, for all intents and purposes, cease to exist until the next time I make them my c:drive, so NOD would have the exact same effect in any Snapshot.

Your archive idea sound interesting but don't know if I would go thru all that trouble simply to switch AV.


Thanks,
Acadia <-QUOTE}

What I meant is the KAV beta only scans my primary snapshot. I've never tried scanning from the secondary.

On the archiving I don't know if I'd bother either unless I wanted 10 snaps, but didn't want to tie up all the disk space. Flexibility is neat though.

Pete

[TonyW]

With KAV beta in Test snapshot, I don't think it scans the other snapshots. A full scan checked 152962 objects. If it had scanned the other snapshots, I'm sure that would have been higher.

[Reve_Etrange]

{QUOTE-> I have already contacted Farstone tech support.
I will post the answer after receiving it.
Regards
Rui <-QUOTE}
Could it be related to disk defragmentation? If during defrag you move sectors under RestoreIT's feet, it will need to add the extra information to existing backups, or something along that line?

-RE

[Rui]

{QUOTE-> Could it be related to disk defragmentation? If during defrag you move sectors under RestoreIT's feet, it will need to add the extra information to existing backups, or something along that line?

-RE <-QUOTE}

None of the posters refer an increase of the backup size related to disk defragmentation.

By the way, after seven days of inquiring Farstone about this increase, I have got no reply yet...

[Reve_Etrange]

I eventually bought it, mainly because I had not much of a choice among the major players (firstdefense looked nice but is not supported on non-English XP). The support not answering is not a good point, but I usually don't expect much on that side from most vendors anyway. As for the increasing backup size, I can live with it, though this is not clear what is going on :-/
Well I hope it won't prove to be wasted $, but at least I'll be able to tell you guys if other annoyances creep up.

-RE

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> ... I'll be able to tell you guys if other annoyances creep up.
-RE <-QUOTE}
Yes, indeed, please keep us informed how you like this thingie, thanks.

Acadia

[TonyW]

Acadia, can I ask about updating FD? Can you install over an existing installation, or do you need to uninstall first?

[Acadia]

If you're talking about the last major version change, which I believe was in August, you need to uninstall the old version. But during the uninstalling process, the program will ask you if you want to keep the Snapshots. If you answer YES, the program will uninstall but will NOT delete the Snapshots. When you install the latest new version, you can simply take over where you left off; the new version will simply start using all of your old saved Snapshots.

The ability to uninstall but save Snapshots has always been a feature of FD. You can uninstall FD whenever you want but keep your Snapshots; then a couple of years later, reinstall FD and start using your old Snapshots as if you had just last used them yesterday.

Acadia

[Reve_Etrange]

Recently used RIT to make a disk image filedump (95GB) on a USB2 external drive, took 8hrs, checks included...

-RE

[Peter2150]

Did you do it from within windows or from a recovery disk.

Using Image for Windows(Terabyte) it takes me 19to image and 11 to verify about 22gb.

However doing it from the recovery disk, it takes about an hour and a half.

What I usually do is image from windows and verify with the recovery disk. Total is still about a half an hour.

Pete

[TonyW]

{QUOTE-> If you're talking about the last major version change, which I believe was in August, you need to uninstall the old version. <-QUOTE}Good news! According to Jason Claiborne, their build .166 should be released sometime next week.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> ...their build .166 should be released sometime next week. <-QUOTE}
Excellent news, thank you for the heads up. 8)

Acadia

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Good news! According to Jason Claiborne, their build .166 should be released sometime next week. <-QUOTE}

Hooray!!

[beetlejuice69]

Will someone post the link when it is released? I`m going to format my puter in a few days and would like to install the new ver at the same time.

[Acadia]

It will probably be posted here:

http://www.raxco.com/Support/windows/updates.cfm#fdisr

Acadia

[beetlejuice69]

{QUOTE-> It will probably be posted here:

http://www.raxco.com/Support/windows/updates.cfm#fdisr

Acadia <-QUOTE}

OK man thanks...I`ll keep checking it.

[Reve_Etrange]

I'm through w/ RestoreIT, I've had to re-install it b/c GRUB messed with the MBR (I guess it's my bad here), then it's been BSODs after BSODs, MBR scr*wed up, etc. Hopefully had UBCD at hand to fix things up and get rid of that junk. No support as expected (...). Way to go.

-RE

[Acadia]

As TonyW had told us to watch out for, the new build, 166, has now been released:

http://www.raxco.com/support/windows/updates.cfm#fdisr

Acadia

[Blackcat]

Do we install over the previous version or carry out a fresh install?

[beetlejuice69]

Yup right over the the other...it`s only a 48 kb update.

[Acadia]

If, and only if, you have build 164, you simply install it into 164. Build 166 is not the entire program, only a fix to it.

If you have not yet obtained the new version of FD which was 164, you will need to do the entire uninstall and install routine of the new version which will bring you up to build 164, then and only then, go and obtain the build 166 fix.

Acadia

[RonDon]

Hello

I posted on another support forum and Acadia posted a link here.

I was critiquing RestoreIT and may have a new approach for some folks. Maybe an answer to the growing incremental point also.... create a 2nd copy at the same time and return to the first. Also when I 1st used restoreIT I once shut it of with startupCpl and lost everything... or so I thought at the time... maybe the static point was still there or I was using a trial version. I plan to check that out sometime when I feel like starting over.

That is a part of what my idea is all about. Creating a pristine (I've actually been using that description) Static restore point. I've been using RestoreIt for just over a year and this Pristine restore point idea came along as I tired trying to open unloaded software after using the static point.

The idea is to always return to the static restore point before adding software, tweaks and preferences that are wanted permanently. Then delete the static restore point and make a new one.

I can use my restore point with little lost.. in my case I think about whether I have new addresses or bookmarks that need to be saved to another partition.

anyone who saves data on C: would probably not like this plan.

There are work-arounds for snags I've ran into.. All interesting I've found.. for instance I keep a list of changes to be made the next time I want to revisit the Static restore point... I keep this list on D: but have a shortcut on the desktop so that it remains current as C: is rolled back.

I mentioned earlier about making a copy of incremental restore points, I was slow to realize this so although my restore point is good, it's not Pristine... It's filled with a lot of that debris from the growing incremental points mention earlier in this thread... not too much... but enough to annoy. These double restore points are for times when I want to try the updates without committing them to the static point. This allows me to return and make it permanent at a later date.

I run win2000 pro if that matters and I don't pretend to be a Techie, I do try lots of software at times though and RestoreIT sure works well there.

It may be that one of those other programs would work better for this idea... if so I would like to hear.

If anyone wants to read a bit more about my plan I was in a debate about it at another forum... not a tech forum.. and anyone bored might find it good read.

There are 2 threads starting with the top. I'm not sure if you need to join to read the threads or not.

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11125&page=1&pp=30

http://www.retouchpro.com/forums/showthread.php?t=12128

Thank you and thanks to Acadia for linking me here. Nice to hear some positive talk on the subject after running into a wall where those links lead. sorry I had that worded poorly before.

RonDon

[Rainwalker]

Greetings all...this may be a bit off topic, but if anyone knows the answer to my question, you guys do........ i have long since removed FirstDefense, yet i still get that FirstDefense pre-windows load screen at boot ... this has become very annoying.....i have done a search and scanned, so as to remove it, but no luck......it does not show up.....how do i get rid of it ?

TIA

[Acadia]

Rainwalker, you've got me on this one, I suggest that you contact Raxco tech support, good luck.

Acadia

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Hello
Thank you and thanks to Acadia for linking me here. Nice to hear some positive talk on the subject after the other Forum
RonDon <-QUOTE}
You're welcome RonDon, by the way, what negative talk was there on that other forum? You can PM me if you don't want to post any links here.

Acadia

[beetlejuice69]

{QUOTE-> Greetings all...this may be a bit off topic, but if anyone knows the answer to my question, you guys do........ i have long since removed FirstDefense, yet i still get that FirstDefense pre-windows load screen at boot ... this has become very annoying.....i have done a search and scanned, so as to remove it, but no luck......it does not show up.....how do i get rid of it ?

TIA <-QUOTE}

When I uninstall it I put FirstDefense in the search of the registry and delelted all that came up each time. Of course making sure it was from Roxco before I did delete. Then done a restart and it was gone.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> Greetings all...this may be a bit off topic, but if anyone knows the answer to my question, you guys do........ i have long since removed FirstDefense, yet i still get that FirstDefense pre-windows load screen at boot ... this has become very annoying.....i have done a search and scanned, so as to remove it, but no luck......it does not show up.....how do i get rid of it ?

TIA <-QUOTE}

If you haven't contacted Tech support, I would try reinstalling, and then re uninstalling. You may have had a bad uninstall. Set explorer so it shows hidden files. You may find you still have the $isr directory.

Way back I had a bad uninstall, and the reinstall failed. I had to remove everything manually. If the reinstall, uninstall doesn't work let us know.

Pete

[Rainwalker]

{QUOTE-> If you haven't contacted Tech support, I would try reinstalling, and then re uninstalling. You may have had a bad uninstall. Set explorer so it shows hidden files. You may find you still have the $isr directory.

Way back I had a bad uninstall, and the reinstall failed. I had to remove everything manually. If the reinstall, uninstall doesn't work let us know.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Thank you Peter....i will contact Raxco first.........will post back later....

[RonDon]

I was talking about a fellow I ran into at RetouchPro... the links in my post went there if they work.... I like the sound of everyone at Computer Haven... and most folks are nice at RetouchPro also just that this one fellow jumped all over my RestoreIT suggestion.

I don't really think I have much to offer a forum like this as I know just enough to keep my computer running... I did build it but I don't think that counts for a lot.

I never have cared for full time security as I connect thru a phone modem, As a result of that and trialing lots of software I often found myself formatting. Just being able to restore Windows and RAID was a treat but nothing like having everything installed. preferences tweaks and all.

I hope the folks at Computer Haven don't think I was refering to them... they were very cordial.
RonDon

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> I hope the folks at Computer Haven don't think I was refering to them... they were very cordial.
RonDon <-QUOTE}
No, no, RonDon, I am probably the only one from CH who also read your post here, so everything is OK, and as you said it, those folks are so cordial that even if someone else from CH did read your post here and get the wrong impression, which I am positive did not happen, everything would STILL be ok.;) Take care and good luck, RonDon.

Acadia

[1st time user]

Hello, I'm completely lost. It says I need around 35gb to make a secondary snapshot. I don't have that much disk space left. Also, should I uninstall True Image as it may not be needed now - and disable system restore? Thanks.

http://img481.imageshack.us/img481/66/lost5bq.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Hello, I'm completely lost. It says I need around 35gb to make a secondary snapshot. I don't have that much disk space left. Also, should I uninstall True Image as it may not be needed now - and disable system restore? Thanks.
<-QUOTE}
If you need 35gb to make a Snapshot, then your c:drive must be approximately 35gb, is that correct?

I still use True Image myself, keeping the images on another hard drive. Yes, if you are using Firstdefense, or any of the other instant recovery programs, you do not need System Restore; it is redundant and you are just wasting space (plus these programs can recover you from problems that System Restore can only dream about).

Acadia

[1st time user]

thank you. Where does first defense store these snapshots? I only have 3gb left in my C drive.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> thank you. Where does first defense store these snapshots? I only have 3gb left in my C drive. <-QUOTE}
The regular Snapshots, which are all bootable, are stored on the same hard drive and partition as your c:drive. The Archive Snapshots, which are not bootable, can be stored on another hard drive or partition.

Also, please note folks, FirstDefense is ONLY NTFS compatible.

Acadia

[1st time user]

thanks again. It appears that I do not even have the primary snapshot as I do not even have that much room. It indicates - "snapshots: 2 of 10" but I don't see it anywhere in my C drive. Time to do some rearranging.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> thanks again. It appears that I do not even have the primary snapshot as I do not even have that much room. It indicates - "snapshots: 2 of 10" but I don't see it anywhere in my C drive. Time to do some rearranging. <-QUOTE}
Whoa!! The c:drive that you are currently using, RIGHT NOW, is the Primary Snapshot, it is considered the first Snapshot. As soon as you install FD, your c:drive automatically becomes the Primary; the Snapshot that FD asks you to actually take the time and create is your number 2 Snapshot; then you can switch back and forth among them if you wish, but your Primary does not need to be created, your "old" c:drive becomes the Primary.

Acadia

[1st time user]

Ok well, I definitely do not have the room. I wonder why it's called a snapshot when in fact, it's not really a snapshot - the copy of it is.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Ok well, I definitely do not have the room. I wonder why it's called a snapshot when in fact, it's not really a snapshot - the copy of it is. <-QUOTE}
Actually it is a Snapshot. Each and every Snapshot in FD has equal weight. Whatever Snapshot that you are in at the time is quite literally your real c:drive, all of the others, for all intents and purposes, cease to exist. When you boot into your number 2 Snapshot, it IS your c:drive, your Primary Snapshot has now disappeared.

Acadia

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> thanks again. It appears that I do not even have the primary snapshot as I do not even have that much room. It indicates - "snapshots: 2 of 10" but I don't see it anywhere in my C drive. Time to do some rearranging. <-QUOTE}
Do you use multiple partitions such as c: d: and e: on the same HDD?
I'd recommend doing that, with only the OS and programs in c: you'd have about a 2GB Primary snapshot. Your data can be stored in d: and e: according to what the data is. For example I keep all my installation files in d: and my documents and music in e:.
That way, I set the c: partition size to 10GB and have ample room for 3 snapshots and lots of free space for defragging. The other partitions are sized accordingly.
My 3 snapshots are the Primary, and 2 test snapshots. I also have a pristine W2K with only hardware and core security required before I connect to the Internet saved as an Archive in the d: partition.
You could eliminate the multiple partitions by using the Anchor Files feature and still have ~2GB snapshots. To do that, run the Tools > Data Anchoring... option and specify folders (generally) or individual files, such as outlook.pst, for anything that's "data" and doesn't need to be copied in each snapshot. Generally 'data' changes infrequently, especially music files and would best be backed up to CD/DVD as just plain old files.

FDISR is meant to recover your operating system in the event that you suffer some catastrophic attack/failure or just want a safe 'VM-like' space to test new programs and wipe clean easily if you don't like them. You don't even need to uninstall them, just copy you good snapshot over the test snapshot.

Hope this helps you,

Jim

[Peter2150]

Hi Jim

Using the partitions and just protecting your system may or may not make sense. Baring some kind of disaster part of what I want FD to do is get rid of some software I want to try. So if I want to test sometihing and see how it interacts, I really need to have everything protected by FDISR, not just my system.

To First Time User I would really suggest you solve your drive space problem, as it is probably very inefficient to have your drive that full.

Pete

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Hi Jim

Using the partitions and just protecting your system may or may not make sense. Baring some kind of disaster part of what I want FD to do is get rid of some software I want to try. So if I want to test sometihing and see how it interacts, I really need to have everything protected by FDISR, not just my system.

To First Time User I would really suggest you solve your drive space problem, as it is probably very inefficient to have your drive that full.

Pete <-QUOTE}
Hi Pete, I did say OS and programs, i.e. all the DCS stuff, OA, PC-cillan are in c: so that I can then beta test any of them in another snapshot. My raw OS takes up only .85GB, with core/essential apps 1.61GB and Primary 2.26GB, so the test snapshot(s) are about 2.xxGB. I'm not aware of anything that tries to install to my d: or e: drives that would then compromise any/all of the snapshots, since most default to c:\program files.... When I tested the kernal version of OA, I did so in the test snapshot, and when I was done, I just copied the Primary over top of the Test and the kernal mode OA was gone (until the next test..).

Hope this clarified your concerns,

Jim

[1st timer]

{QUOTE-> Do you use multiple partitions such as c: d: and e: on the same HDD?


Hope this helps you,

Jim <-QUOTE}Thanks Jim, this is the size of it. C and E are primary. D and F are slave. True image is on E but was unable to write on first attempt I think perhaps I need to increase the secure zone size.

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/909/parts1nw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Thanks Jim, this is the size of it. C and E are primary. D and F are slave. True image is on E but was unable to write on first attempt I think perhaps I need to increase the secure zone size.

http://img424.imageshack.us/img424/909/parts1nw.jpg (http://imageshack.us) <-QUOTE}
OK, I think that you're saying that you have 4 hard drives with one patition on each, with 35GB on the c: drive/hard disk. My guess then is that that's a 40GB drive since you only have 3GB free. I'd move some of the contents to one of your other drives and keep only the OS and installed programs on the c:. That would include archived FDISR snapshots which don't need to be on c:.
In my example I meant that I have 3 partitions on one hard drive. And the c: partition contains normally 2 but occasionally 3 snapshots of 2.3GB each, total 6.9 GB in a 15GB partition. I have lots of room for additional snapshots, but the way that I use my system, two is plenty.
Jim

[1st timer]

Jim, what I'm saying is I have two hard drives. The master contains partitions C and E. E is incoming downloads and large media files. The slave drive contains partitions D: media/music and F which are other misc. storage.

[1st timer]

Here are my 3 main folders. I suppose I should move contents of my desktop and documents out - correct?

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/7262/size1my.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Peter2150]

@Jim. Sure does.


@1st timer. Do you have your Acronis secure zone on the same drive as First Defense. If so this doesn't make sense to me. I would use First Defense for all recovery short of hard disk failure, and use acronis True image for the disk failure. In this scenario, having an acronis image on the same drive doesn't make sense. You might want to consider removing the secure zone, and putting the acronis image on the other drive.

Pete

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Here are my 3 main folders. I suppose I should move contents of my desktop and documents out - correct?

http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/7262/size1my.jpg (http://imageshack.us) <-QUOTE}
Hi, I don't see anything re: your folders, but I'd have to ask what you do have on c: that, for arguments sake, must be running around 30+GB. I subtracted 5GB for the absolutely biggest collection of an OS and installed applications (mine is only 2.36GB) leaving the 30GB of what I'd guess is what I'd call 'data'. That data is what you should move elswhere. If you have a partitioning program, reconfigure c: to be only around 4-5 times (15+GB?) what you need for the OS and installed programs, which makes e: bigger by the same amount, but which doesn't have to be copied in the snapshots.
I keep my Desktop as an 'anchored' file, also OUTLOOK.PST, so that regardless of the snapshot, I have the same desktop and e-mail. I do count on common sense and other programs to prevent a 'baddie' being installed to my Desktop (I don't know of anything that does that except for shortcuts for 'good' programs, and I'd notice that) or even getting through my e-mail scanner.
Then, anything new, including new versions of trusted apps, get installed in the test snapshot first and run there for a few days before I install them in the Primary

Jim

[1st timer]

It's a total of 24.9GB. Those are the only folders with "GBs" - "Data" which I should move is "my documents=? And desktop=8.6GB

@peter - above a few posts I stated that TI secure zone was in E which is my slave drive

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> It's a total of 24.9GB. Those are the only folders with "GBs" - "Data" which I should move is "my documents=? And desktop=8.6GB

@peter - above a few posts I stated that TI secure zone was in E which is my slave drive <-QUOTE}

Hi 1st timer.

I guess I missed that as I don't understand why you would do that. I thought the only purpose of the secure zone was to be able to put the image on the drive you are imaging. Maybe I don't understand the slave drive setup?

Pete

[1st timer]

If my primary drive ever breaks, I still have an image of my C drive on the slave drive in a protected partition.

[Peter2150]

{QUOTE-> If my primary drive ever breaks, I still have an image of my C drive on the slave drive in a protected partition. <-QUOTE}

I do that with an image on an external drive, but I guess what I don't understand is why you need the secure zone if it's on another drive.

BTW, I am just curious on this, which is why I am asking.

Pete

[1st timer]

Well for one, no other windows application can access it - it's secure. For the other, it's so Acronis Startup Recovery Manager is enabled - which gives me a boot option to boot into recovery via F11. Now if I can just get this to create an image, I will have back up. I have no back up yet. Acronis (version 9 2323) just sits there not progressing: http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/4927/nothing4ld.jpg


On the subject of 1st defense, I managed to create a secondary and a copy of secondary? How is it that I still have 20gb left?!! I thought the snapshots would take the unused free space but it did not.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4378/snap6ml.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Peter2150]

Hmm, something odd going on, but I notice you have preboot disabled. Not sure you can create a good snapshot with that condition. I'd keep preboot enabled so if you need to you can boot to the other snapshot. You also have answered why I wouldn't and don't trust acronis for anything. Hasn't proven to be reliable.

[JW Clements]

{QUOTE-> Well for one, no other windows application can access it - it's secure. For the other, it's so Acronis Startup Recovery Manager is enabled - which gives me a boot option to boot into recovery via F11. Now if I can just get this to create an image, I will have back up. I have no back up yet. Acronis (version 9 2323) just sits there not progressing: http://img284.imageshack.us/img284/4927/nothing4ld.jpg


On the subject of 1st defense, I managed to create a secondary and a copy of secondary? How is it that I still have 20gb left?!! I thought the snapshots would take the unused free space but it did not.

http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/4378/snap6ml.jpg (http://imageshack.us) <-QUOTE}
Hi folks, your Acronis is modifying the boot record (MBR) which conflicts with FDISR which has it's own extended format of the MBR. You have to choose only one, either leave FDISR without the f1 boot option and lose visibility of the snapshots (which doesn't make sense to me) or disable the emergency f11 boot option in Acronis (which does make sense to me). Peter2150 and I differ on the approach to protecting ourselves from mechanical failure of the hard drive, I use a DOS mode progam to copy the entire drive to a second, bootable drive, of approximately the same size. Pete just said that he keeps his image on a second drive, but still needs a new drive before he can restore the image. (Am I right Pete, if not, jump in and correct me, and I aplologize in advance). But I think that hard drives are pretty inexpensive, so having a 'spare' for *either* approach is a really good idea.

Jim

[Acadia]

Hmmm, interesting JW, thanks for the info. I have the older version 6 of Acronis, it does not seen to interfere with FirstDefense, BUT then again, I have never needed to restore an image with Acronis (because of FirstDefense). I wonder if I should disable anything in version 6; I am not even sure if version 6 even has the same restore options as the latest version. If there is any chance at all of Acronis muffing up my FirstDefense, it goes! ;D

Thanks, again.
Acadia

[Peter2150]

@Acadia. Acronis has never interfered for me either, but I bet you don't use the secure zone. I bet that is what changes the MBR. I just have a high confidence level in Acronis.

@jim You are right on the money. I only have one internal drive that is bootable, the others are external drives, that aren't bootable. So I would have to get another drive. Probably should have a spare, but haven't bothered, as I have a desktop replacement laptop, that has all my mission critical software on it(office,quickbooks,etc). I use a usb key to synchronize all the pertinent data, so I can transfer my total operation to the laptop in about 2 minutes. The key also serves as a sort of backup, and is updated frequently. So if I need to wait 3 days for a new harddrive for my desktop, I wouldn't miss a beat.

Pete

[1st timer]

Thanks guys. What I have are secondary and copy of secondary (whatever that is) but now it's making a copy of "primary snapshot" which I didn't have - which indicates it will require 2hours. should I delete the secondary? I have enabled preboot.

[Acadia]

{QUOTE-> Thanks guys. What I have are secondary and copy of secondary (whatever that is) but now it's making a copy of "primary snapshot" which I didn't have - which indicates it will require 2hours. should I delete the secondary? I have enabled preboot. <-QUOTE}
It may say "2 hours" but I bet that it doesn't take anywhere near that long. The longest that it has ever taken me to create a 5gig snapshot is 15 minutes. As long as you have the room, it does not matter if you delete the secondary or not; it is your choice.

Acadia

[maddawgz]

should i hate my folder and does FD need to start up with pc if not how do u stop it starting up? and if i need it to reboot to snapshot do i need to start it up again? MD

[crofttk]

Depends on what's in the folder. Anyways it's an arrangement of elecronic quantum states and nothing more so there's no reason to hate it.;)

If you're asking should you hide your $ISR folder - you shouldn't have to as it should already be hidden.

If you want to get full use out of FDISR, then yes, it does need to load at boot time, elsewise you'd have no option of booting to another snapshot if your current one bites the dust. You can't really start it properly unless it loads at boot time and stays loaded.

[Acadia]

No reason not to boot with FD turned on. It only uses resources when you decide to make a Snapshot or update a Snapshot, so by all means, keep it on at all times, after all, that's what you purchase the thing for: to protect you.

Acadia